Hard Light Productions Forums

Off-Topic Discussion => Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: TrashMan on May 20, 2014, 05:55:24 am

Title: Kaijus..Kaijus come stompin!
Post by: TrashMan on May 20, 2014, 05:55:24 am
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/kerberosproductions/kaiju-a-gogo

(https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/001/982/254/a378fea0496d2002b274082f5fea8e9a_large.png?1399540194)
Title: Re: Kaijus..Kaijus come stompin!
Post by: Phantom Hoover on May 20, 2014, 07:07:04 am
i'll take 'dubious companies trashman is likely to pimp out on HLP' for $500
Title: Re: Kaijus..Kaijus come stompin!
Post by: Turambar on May 20, 2014, 09:58:32 am
Maybe one day Kerberos will make a good SotS game.  I'll buy it from them when it's done, and not before.
Title: Re: Kaijus..Kaijus come stompin!
Post by: Spoon on May 20, 2014, 10:37:43 am
I like how SoTS2 is still effectively a beta product. They even had the nerve to 'rerelease' the damn thing as 'the enhanced edition'. The same broken product as before just with patches added. Yet you still have apostles like Trashman spreading the word of their trash products.  :nono:
Title: Re: Kaijus..Kaijus come stompin!
Post by: TrashMan on May 20, 2014, 10:49:33 am
This crap again?
And you call me a broken record?

This tread is about THIS game and THIS kickstarter.

I don't care if you have issues with SOTS.
I don't care if SOTS2 kileld your mother and raped your mother.
And I especially dont' care if you have isses with me.

This thread isn't about SOTS2. Create a new one if you want to talk about it.
Title: Re: Kaijus..Kaijus come stompin!
Post by: Phantom Hoover on May 20, 2014, 10:51:49 am
we're so persistent in warning people against handing their money over to dishonest companies, it must be soooo obnoxious right
Title: Re: Kaijus..Kaijus come stompin!
Post by: StarSlayer on May 20, 2014, 10:52:59 am
It looks like Sim City 2000 with a less awesome monster.

(http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/images/11/may/monster.png)
Title: Re: Kaijus..Kaijus come stompin!
Post by: Spoon on May 20, 2014, 10:54:29 am
Maybe you should stop coming here just to advertise the company you so fanboyishly adore?
I do believe the general consensus on this board is that Kereberos as a company should have died off after the stunt they pulled with SoTS2. And nobody wants to support a company that pulls crap like that.

This thread serves like literally no purpose other than to get people to the kickstarter page. It's really blatant viral advertisement, especially coming from you.
Title: Re: Kaijus..Kaijus come stompin!
Post by: NGTM-1R on May 20, 2014, 10:57:31 am
we're so persistent in warning people against handing their money over to dishonest companies, it must be soooo obnoxious right

Pretty much this. Nobody should ever trust Kerberos again.
Title: Re: Kaijus..Kaijus come stompin!
Post by: Phantom Hoover on May 20, 2014, 11:02:15 am
why in god's name you'd believe they need $50k to make something with the approximate scope of a dime-a-dozen flash game is beyond me, too
Title: Re: Kaijus..Kaijus come stompin!
Post by: BlueFlames on May 20, 2014, 12:23:21 pm
This tread is about THIS game and THIS kickstarter.

You're asking us to pledge their money to a company for a new project.  That company's past failures are relevant to whether or not we should be opening our wallets.
Title: Re: Kaijus..Kaijus come stompin!
Post by: Phantom Hoover on May 20, 2014, 12:34:04 pm
This thread isn't about SOTS2. Create a new one if you want to talk about it.

this thread isn't about bernie madoff's past ventures, we're here to talk about his new investment scheme
Title: Re: Kaijus..Kaijus come stompin!
Post by: Luis Dias on May 20, 2014, 12:44:03 pm
Even without all this questionable background, I am really underpsyched with these screenshots. Terrible art. And not even a gameplay video? For ****s sake, this looks terrible.
Title: Re: Kaijus..Kaijus come stompin!
Post by: Phantom Hoover on May 20, 2014, 12:50:40 pm
don't you see this thing's going to REVOLUTIONISE the upgrade game genre
Title: Re: Kaijus..Kaijus come stompin!
Post by: Colonol Dekker on May 20, 2014, 04:24:45 pm
Even without all this questionable background, I am really underpsyched with these screenshots. Terrible art. And not even a gameplay video? For ****s sake, this looks terrible.


This.


I'm above holding past failures again someone's new endeavours. It still looks plop.
Title: Re: Kaijus..Kaijus come stompin!
Post by: Phantom Hoover on May 20, 2014, 05:25:02 pm
pay kerberos only $1000 and you can be the owner of a one-of-a-kind ukelele
Title: Re: Kaijus..Kaijus come stompin!
Post by: Dragon on May 20, 2014, 06:46:55 pm
Looks like it could be a decent browser game, but no more.
Title: Re: Kaijus..Kaijus come stompin!
Post by: Ace on May 20, 2014, 08:52:15 pm
If it was any other developer I'd be interested, but Kerberos burned any good will I had towards them with Sword of the Stars 2.
Title: Re: Kaijus..Kaijus come stompin!
Post by: TrashMan on May 21, 2014, 01:35:57 am
Maybe you should stop coming here just to advertise the company you so fanboyishly adore?
I do believe the general consensus on this board is that Kereberos as a company should have died off after the stunt they pulled with SoTS2. And nobody wants to support a company that pulls crap like that.

This thread serves like literally no purpose other than to get people to the kickstarter page. It's really blatant viral advertisement, especially coming from you.

Spoon...

So if I happen to like a game and/or company I'm automaticvly a blinded fanboy? Let's dismiss someone and belittle him immediately. My opinion doesn't count because you think I'm a fanboy - and you use that term in a derogatory matter. Your very first post and you are directly insulting me.
And you're automaticly an enlightened tower of reason and good taste?
AS if....

I could easily call you a mindless hater and I wouldn't be far from the truth, but is name-calling, snide remarks and cheap shots really the way you want to go? Really?
The only one who can't seem to "let go" or is obsessed doesn't look like me.


This thread, like ANY OTHER KICKSTARTER thread serves to point out and get peoples attention. And as this forums history shows, you would have ZERO problem with another thread like this if it was another company/game. Or another person making it.
So get of your high horse you hypocrite.

You have zero high ground of any kind. Not moral. Not logical. Not ethical.




Quote
You're asking us to pledge their money to a company for a new project.  That company's past failures are relevant to whether or not we should be opening our wallets.

I'm not asking you to do anything. I'm just spreading the word.

And b.t.w - Kerberos has multiples games under it's belt. SOTS2 is just one of them.
Title: Re: Kaijus..Kaijus come stompin!
Post by: Phantom Hoover on May 21, 2014, 05:11:12 am
including that last game they made on kickstarter, it's weird how they've forgotten all of a sudden how to make profits they can reinvest in making more games

you'd almost think they were trying to fleece loyal chumps because they know they'll never be taken seriously as a professional dev again
Title: Re: Kaijus..Kaijus come stompin!
Post by: Spoon on May 21, 2014, 09:19:50 am
Trashman, you are just comedy gold  :lol:
Title: Re: Kaijus..Kaijus come stompin!
Post by: Luis Dias on May 21, 2014, 09:51:25 am
I dream of a forum where needless annoying escalations of sarcasm and general irritability soft land and self-contain even before they occur.

I'm sure this dream is possible.
Title: Re: Kaijus..Kaijus come stompin!
Post by: StarSlayer on May 21, 2014, 10:45:57 am
I dreamed a dream in time gone by
When hopes where high
And nice comments were worth posting
I dreamed that etiquette would never die
I dreamed that forumites would be forgiving
Title: Re: Kaijus..Kaijus come stompin!
Post by: Aesaar on May 21, 2014, 11:25:17 am
Maybe you should stop coming here just to advertise the company you so fanboyishly adore?
I do believe the general consensus on this board is that Kereberos as a company should have died off after the stunt they pulled with SoTS2. And nobody wants to support a company that pulls crap like that.

This thread serves like literally no purpose other than to get people to the kickstarter page. It's really blatant viral advertisement, especially coming from you.

Spoon...

So if I happen to like a game and/or company I'm automaticvly a blinded fanboy? Let's dismiss someone and belittle him immediately. My opinion doesn't count because you think I'm a fanboy - and you use that term in a derogatory matter. Your very first post and you are directly insulting me.
And you're automaticly an enlightened tower of reason and good taste?
AS if....

I could easily call you a mindless hater and I wouldn't be far from the truth, but is name-calling, snide remarks and cheap shots really the way you want to go? Really?
The only one who can't seem to "let go" or is obsessed doesn't look like me.


This thread, like ANY OTHER KICKSTARTER thread serves to point out and get peoples attention. And as this forums history shows, you would have ZERO problem with another thread like this if it was another company/game. Or another person making it.
So get of your high horse you hypocrite.

You have zero high ground of any kind. Not moral. Not logical. Not ethical.




Quote
You're asking us to pledge their money to a company for a new project.  That company's past failures are relevant to whether or not we should be opening our wallets.

I'm not asking you to do anything. I'm just spreading the word.

And b.t.w - Kerberos has multiples games under it's belt. SOTS2 is just one of them.

If the only posts allowed in this thread were the ones saying "oh cool" or variations of that, you should have said so.  Wouldn't have stopped anything, but it would make it clear you're not actually interested in a discussion. 

Calling attention to Kerberos's past history is most definitely relevant when discussing their new kickstarter venture.  Especially when that history is less than stellar (to say the least).
Title: Re: Kaijus..Kaijus come stompin!
Post by: NGTM-1R on May 21, 2014, 12:57:06 pm
including that last game they made on kickstarter, it's weird how they've forgotten all of a sudden how to make profits they can reinvest in making more games

That implies they're, uh, making profits.

Kereberos' recent games have been Newgrounds quality, it's true, but this leaves me with another question; how is the company currently staffed? Has it undergone a major internal collapse, fired most of its people? I really don't believe this is the same studio that built SOTS 1, no matter how many patches it took them to fix.
Title: Re: Kaijus..Kaijus come stompin!
Post by: TrashMan on May 22, 2014, 01:26:41 am
Ah Spoon. You never fail to cement my belief that humanity really is a failed species.


Let me put it in simple terms and break it down.
Unlike some people, I never have, nor ever will call down for the death/murder, harakiri and/or loss of job of a person/company just because I didn't like one of their products. Why? Well:

1) Because it's stupid and childish.

2) Because writing off someone should be based on a long history of bad performance, not a single instance or moment. Heck, even EA puts out a good game every once and a while.
(Fun fact: Kereberos made 2 games after SOTS2. They are both good and fun and smaller in scope. If nothing else, it shows they learned their lesson and are staying away from massive projects. Also, they patched SOTS2 and it's a fun game too.)

3) Because "I didn't like their product" is hardly a good reason for hate. There are so many better things out there to waste your hate on. Also, taking things personal is a bad, bad idea. And unfortunately a lot of people did take SOTS2 as a personal insult. Emotional distance is required.
Hell, me and some of the Kerberos staff (the big honcho and their lead writer) have a not-so-stellar relationship. I may have butted heads with them on multiple occasions. I may even hate some things about them.
But I don't let that cloud my judgment about their company or game.

4) Because getting hung up in the past is generally a bad idea. SOTS2 then is not SOTS2 now. Time moves on.

5) Because their games are always different. They innovate with different takes on things and gameplay. That alone is a noteworthy attribute given the sea of clones and the constant complaints of "same old stuff" and "lack of originality". They may be rough around the edges, but they have depth. I respect that and I support that.

6) Because I don't consider the financial ruin of people a proper thing to desire. I don't know about the rest of you, but the image of starving families is not something I ever wish to advocate or cause. Ever.
Title: Re: Kaijus..Kaijus come stompin!
Post by: Aesaar on May 22, 2014, 04:39:19 am
Just because you happen to think SOTS2 is fun now doesn't mean everyone does.  As for their other games since then, many don't consider those too good either, even if you might.  In light of this, why should Kerberos be given money for this?  What have they done recently that proves they can make this game fun?

"I didn't like their product" is a perfectly valid reason to not be interested in whatever it is they're working on now.  And their treatment of people on their forums is a good reason to hate them.

Games I don't like + company full of people I don't like = company I don't like.   Why should I support anything they do?
Title: Re: Kaijus..Kaijus come stompin!
Post by: Phantom Hoover on May 22, 2014, 04:43:58 am
5) Because their games are always different. They innovate with different takes on things and gameplay. That alone is a noteworthy attribute given the sea of clones and the constant complaints of "same old stuff" and "lack of originality". They may be rough around the edges, but they have depth. I respect that and I support that.

Their last game was a formulaic roguelike, and this one is indistinguishable from the games you'd see on Newgrounds. These people wouldn't know innovation if it slapped them in the face.
Title: Re: Kaijus..Kaijus come stompin!
Post by: Luis Dias on May 22, 2014, 05:05:17 am
I am extremely out of the loop, but even then out of the top of my head there are some small developers I am excited about, like Supergiant, Hello Games, Alexander Bruce, Josh Parnell, etc.

These guys inspire with their passion, extremely good taste, bizarre and marvelous ideas, and real innovative spirit.

Here I see nothing but terribadness dreamt and designed somewhere in the 80's.
Title: Re: Kaijus..Kaijus come stompin!
Post by: Spoon on May 22, 2014, 07:06:31 am
Metacritic scores of Kereberos products:
SotS (2006): 6.8, user score 7.1
Fort zombie (2009): Only 10 user reviews (I never heard of this either, but it seems pretty bad) 5.9
Sots 2 (2011): 4.4, user score 4.6
Sots the pit (2013): 6.8, user score 7.6

A track record of ****ty games and at best mediocrity. I'd say the long history of underwhelmingness is right there. In gamedev tycoon you wouldn't even be able to leave the basement with those scores!
Oh wait, better forget all of that and blindly give them money in the hope this kickstarter that has little more than a few screenshots will somehow turn out great. Yup, thats exactly where I want my money to go.

That implies they're, uh, making profits.

Kereberos' recent games have been Newgrounds quality, it's true, but this leaves me with another question; how is the company currently staffed? Has it undergone a major internal collapse, fired most of its people? I really don't believe this is the same studio that built SOTS 1, no matter how many patches it took them to fix.
It's pretty obvious that whatever it is they are putting out now are small projects just to make a quick buck to keep their heads afloat.

Just because you happen to think SOTS2 is fun now doesn't mean everyone does.  As for their other games since then, many don't consider those too good either, even if you might.  In light of this, why should Kerberos be given money for this?  What have they done recently that proves they can make this game fun?

"I didn't like their product" is a perfectly valid reason to not be interested in whatever it is they're working on now.  And their treatment of people on their forums is a good reason to hate them.

Games I don't like + company full of people I don't like = company I don't like.   Why should I support anything they do?
Excellent post this.

Ah Spoon. You never fail to cement my belief that humanity really is a failed species.
Yeah, gotta hate all those people that don't agree with your notion that Kerberos ****s out nothing but the most legendary masterpieces huh?
Title: Re: Kaijus..Kaijus come stompin!
Post by: Lorric on May 22, 2014, 08:02:14 am
Yeah, gotta hate all those people that don't agree with your notion that Kerberos ****s out nothing but the most legendary masterpieces huh?
It looks to me like the only one Trashman has a problem with in this thread is you.
Title: Re: Kaijus..Kaijus come stompin!
Post by: StarSlayer on May 22, 2014, 08:08:22 am
Yeah, gotta hate all those people that don't agree with your notion that Kerberos ****s out nothing but the most legendary masterpieces huh?
It looks to me like the only one Trashman has a problem with in this thread is you.

I dunno, that homo sapiens are a failed species is pretty encompassing. :P
Title: Re: Kaijus..Kaijus come stompin!
Post by: Lorric on May 22, 2014, 08:10:37 am
Yeah, gotta hate all those people that don't agree with your notion that Kerberos ****s out nothing but the most legendary masterpieces huh?
It looks to me like the only one Trashman has a problem with in this thread is you.

I dunno, that homo sapiens are a failed species is pretty encompassing. :P
Heh. But that would also mean including himself in that. :)
Title: Re: Kaijus..Kaijus come stompin!
Post by: TrashMan on May 22, 2014, 08:24:49 am
Metacritic scores of Kereberos products:

Is irrelevant. Metacritic is hardly an accurate judge of anything. (And it's a sad affair that 7+ is considered "average" or "mediocre". Some people obviously never heard of normal distribution.)

And rest assured, if a game you liked was rated no-so-favorably on whatever site/source, you'd dismiss that in an instant. Ratings are only ever brought to bear in a discussion when they favor you - and immediately ignored when they are not.


Quote
Yeah, gotta hate all those people that don't agree with your notion that Kerberos ****s out nothing but the most legendary masterpieces huh?

Masterpieces? Nah, few games deserve such a title.

But fun games. Fort Zombie for example, suffers from some optimization issues and the graphics are undewhelming. Yet it's fun as hell.

SOTS1 remains the best 4x I ever played. Period. SOTS2, despite it's launch, is a worthy successor. Most common complaints I've seen are from people who expect a clone of SOTS1, and are put off by different mechanics. I personally like the more realistic approach to logisitcs and fleet managment.

As for simple games - so what? What is wrong with simpler games? Or simpler graphics. They are games too. And Kickstarter exists to fund ALL projects, not just AA titles that cost tons of $$$.
Small projects have the advantage of smaller costs ... and smaller kickstarter goals.
Title: Re: Kaijus..Kaijus come stompin!
Post by: Phantom Hoover on May 22, 2014, 08:45:16 am
i think simple games are great, but i think the way kerberos are trying to cash in on them is disgraceful
Title: Re: Kaijus..Kaijus come stompin!
Post by: Aesaar on May 22, 2014, 10:31:49 am
Trashman: Your idea of a fun game and mine are different.  I think SotS1 was a passable 4x.  Not bad, but nothing special. Master of Orion 2 was better.  I think SotS2 was a pile of crap though, even patched.  And I'm someone who refrained from playing it until they announced it was in its proper release form because I was willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.  But it never got enjoyable to me.  Their other games have similarly ranged from mediocre to crap.  Because of this track record, I have no faith in their ability to deliver something fun in a new game.

You enjoy their games? Great, go pledge for this.  Others might not share your opinions, and like it or not, the moment you started this thread, you asked others for their opinions.  If you don't agree with what others think, too bad. Deal with it.

If all you wanted was to have your thoughts echoed by Kerberos yes-men, you should have stayed on their forums.
Title: Re: Kaijus..Kaijus come stompin!
Post by: Lorric on May 22, 2014, 11:06:35 am
Trashman: Your idea of a fun game and mine are different.  I think SotS1 was a passable 4x.  Not bad, but nothing special. Master of Orion 2 was better.  I think SotS2 was a pile of crap though, even patched.  And I'm someone who refrained from playing it until they announced it was in its proper release form because I was willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.  But it never got enjoyable to me.  Their other games have similarly ranged from mediocre to crap.  Because of this track record, I have no faith in their ability to deliver something fun in a new game.

You enjoy their games? Great, go pledge for this.  Others might not share your opinions, and like it or not, the moment you started this thread, you asked others for their opinions.  If you don't agree with what others think, too bad. Deal with it.

If all you wanted was to have your thoughts echoed by Kerberos yes-men, you should have stayed on their forums.
This is all correct. But a couple of people have come in with an attitude, and that's just not warranted, is it? The OP is a harmless post about something that interests him. Nothing more.

I don't like the look of Kaijus-a-Gogo either. I might have said so myself if so many hadn't already done so for me to just not see the point. Warning people to take something with a pinch of salt due to the dodgy track record of the company involved is a fine and maybe even noble thing to do also, but there's more here than just a simple disagreement about taste/quality of games and companies.
Title: Re: Kaijus..Kaijus come stompin!
Post by: Colonol Dekker on May 22, 2014, 11:51:25 am
I feel this is waaaaaaaaaaaay off topic.  End of the day, trashcan still has a right to post topics he feels may have been to interest to the board. This doesn't contravene any rules does it?
Title: Re: Kaijus..Kaijus come stompin!
Post by: Phantom Hoover on May 22, 2014, 11:56:21 am
None of us has suggested it is. We haven't actually asked you to remove the topic.
Title: Re: Kaijus..Kaijus come stompin!
Post by: The E on May 22, 2014, 12:13:27 pm
Yes, Trashman has every right to post this topic.

But PhantomHoover, Spoon, Aesaar et al also have every right to voice their opinions on it.
Title: Re: Kaijus..Kaijus come stompin!
Post by: Colonol Dekker on May 22, 2014, 12:15:33 pm
I see this thread as a slanging match now.
Title: Re: Kaijus..Kaijus come stompin!
Post by: Lorric on May 22, 2014, 12:20:05 pm
I would have liked to have asked Trashman why the game excites him. I am genuinely curious. But I don't feel I could have that talk with him with the way this thread is, people would get in the way of it, and the mood has already been spoiled to have a pleasant conversation.

In addition, anyone who likes the look of Kaijus-a-gogo or the products turned out by Kereberos has automatically been personally insulted several times by people in this thread. If I liked Kaijus-a-gogo I wouldn't want to talk about it here because of the attitude.
Title: Re: Kaijus..Kaijus come stompin!
Post by: Luis Dias on May 22, 2014, 12:40:25 pm
 Lorric, where have people "who likes the look of Kaijus-a-gogo or the products turned out by Kereberos" been "personally insulted"... "several times" by "people" - plural -  Lorric?

You're making an hyperbole here. A consensus that this "product" is ****ty by the posters is not an insult, nor does it display a "bad" "attitude" or whatever. This is all in your head.
Title: Re: Kaijus..Kaijus come stompin!
Post by: Lorric on May 22, 2014, 12:48:00 pm
Lorric, where have people "who likes the look of Kaijus-a-gogo or the products turned out by Kereberos" been "personally insulted"... "several times" by "people" - plural -  Lorric?

You're making an hyperbole here. A consensus that this "product" is ****ty by the posters is not an insult, nor does it display a "bad" "attitude" or whatever. This is all in your head.
Alright, I'll show you.

Yet you still have apostles like Trashman spreading the word of their trash products.  :nono:
Maybe you should stop coming here just to advertise the company you so fanboyishly adore?
you'd almost think they were trying to fleece loyal chumps because they know they'll never be taken seriously as a professional dev again
Trashman, you are just comedy gold  :lol:

The first batch are all insulting you personally for liking the games the company turns out. And the last one in the context of what it responds to is completely disrespectful of someone else having a different opinion.

Basically that's what they all are. If you like Kereberos games, you're a chump or a fanboy. You can't just have a different taste in games and that be respected, and I don't want to run into something like this if I want to make a thread to talk about a game I like.
Title: Re: Kaijus..Kaijus come stompin!
Post by: The E on May 22, 2014, 01:21:35 pm
Given that this thread has generated a lot of reports so far, I'll close it for the moment so the situation can be sorted out.
Title: Re: Kaijus..Kaijus come stompin!
Post by: Mongoose on May 25, 2014, 06:35:10 pm
Okay...let's try this again.  The relevant parties involved have been given minor warnings, with the understanding that said warnings will be escalated if the behavior is repeated.  As per our forum guidelines (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=87037.0), the following actions are considered unacceptable behavior on HLP: Baiting another user, responding to said bait, and acting as a "mini-moderator" in lieu of using the report function.  We're all big boys and girls here; we should be able to play nice with each other.

I'm going to unlock this for now, with the caveat that any further discussion address the topic itself, and not be aimed at other posters.  If the same thing happens again, the consequences will be much more significant.
Title: Re: Kaijus..Kaijus come stompin!
Post by: TrashMan on May 26, 2014, 08:35:02 am
i think simple games are great, but i think the way kerberos are trying to cash in on them is disgraceful

Trying to earn money for something you make is disgraceful?

You must live in a land all your living expenses are provided for. Hence no need for jobs, no need to earn money. I'd like to live there.



Quote
I would have liked to have asked Trashman why the game excites him. I am genuinely curious. But I don't feel I could have that talk with him with the way this thread is, people would get in the way of it, and the mood has already been spoiled to have a pleasant conversation.

I'm more interested in the spin Kerberos will give it.
Looks like a fun and simple game, something I could play at work during a lul period - if it's anything like the Pit, it will be worth a few bucks.

But, just because I support Kerberos doesn't mean that every game they make automatically generates great interest with me.

Title: Re: Kaijus..Kaijus come stompin!
Post by: Lorric on May 26, 2014, 08:49:45 am
Quote
I would have liked to have asked Trashman why the game excites him. I am genuinely curious. But I don't feel I could have that talk with him with the way this thread is, people would get in the way of it, and the mood has already been spoiled to have a pleasant conversation.

I'm more interested in the spin Kerberos will give it.
Looks like a fun and simple game, something I could play at work during a lul period - if it's anything like the Pit, it will be worth a few bucks.

But, just because I support Kerberos doesn't mean that every game they make automatically generates great interest with me.
What do you mean by "the spin"? Are you perhaps talking about the presentation of the game, such as humour and story, or perhaps the nuts and bolts, the upgrades to the monsters and game mechanics and such?
Title: Re: Kaijus..Kaijus come stompin!
Post by: NGTM-1R on May 26, 2014, 06:37:31 pm
Trying to earn money for something you make is disgraceful?

This is not a black and white subject; the question is more nuanced than this makes it out to be. I take great pride in my own current creative endeavors, but I do not seek to make money off them; not because my every need is provided for but because I am doing them as an amateur, releasing amateur work, surrounded by others doing the same, all of us for free. If someone wished to pay me for it I would refuse, because what I am doing is surrounded by other amateurs of similar quality. There is no reason I deserve payment for something that is surrounded by free alternatives of similar quality.

When I compared the look of this game to something released on Newgrounds, I was not making hyperbole; this is literally what it looks like to me, an amateur flash game. The Pit had similar issues, not just in appearance but in gameplay. They were/are small, cheap, amateur games that could have been replicated by a high school or college student as a year-long project; Newgrounds-quality games.

Is it shameful to charge money for work? Not necessarily, but if someone is attempting to charge for work when it falls below the threshold where a completely free alternative product is a very real possibility? That is shameful behavior.

EDIT: And because someone will ask why you should not ask or accept payment when it is free-quality work: while some might give money in the knowledge of what they are paying for, some will not. And you are effectively preying on the ignorance of the latter that they are paying for something they could have had for free.
Title: Re: Kaijus..Kaijus come stompin!
Post by: TrashMan on May 27, 2014, 06:59:37 am
What do you mean by "the spin"? Are you perhaps talking about the presentation of the game, such as humour and story, or perhaps the nuts and bolts, the upgrades to the monsters and game mechanics and such?


Both. Kerb does both well.

SOTS did break many of the Sci-fi race stereotypes and had a detailed background and fresh gameplay.

Fort Zombie has a interesting presentation of the apocalypse and approach to survival.
Title: Re: Kaijus..Kaijus come stompin!
Post by: Lorric on May 27, 2014, 07:08:01 am
What do you mean by "the spin"? Are you perhaps talking about the presentation of the game, such as humour and story, or perhaps the nuts and bolts, the upgrades to the monsters and game mechanics and such?


Both. Kerb does both well.

SOTS did break many of the Sci-fi race stereotypes and had a detailed background and fresh gameplay.

Fort Zombie has a interesting presentation of the apocalypse and approach to survival.
Ah, I see. Thank you.
Title: Re: Kaijus..Kaijus come stompin!
Post by: TrashMan on May 27, 2014, 07:11:29 am
This is not a black and white subject; the question is more nuanced than this makes it out to be. I take great pride in my own current creative endeavors, but I do not seek to make money off them; not because my every need is provided for but because I am doing them as an amateur, releasing amateur work, surrounded by others doing the same, all of us for free. If someone wished to pay me for it I would refuse, because what I am doing is surrounded by other amateurs of similar quality. There is no reason I deserve payment for something that is surrounded by free alternatives of similar quality.

Weather or not you wish to charge something for your work is your own decision.

Even if your work is not the highest of quality, even if there are others who will provide similar stuff for free - you do have the right to charge for your work, as long as it's yours. The existence of alternatives is irrelevant. Your work is your own, time and effort spent is your own.
And it merits compensation - especially if it's how you make your living.

Modding has "spoiled" some people into complaining and demanding everything for free, simply because there are talented modders/programers/artists who can make great stuff.

I see people selling their 3D models. Are they greedy and stupid people because I can find free 3D model repositories?


Quote
When I compared the look of this game to something released on Newgrounds, I was not making hyperbole; this is literally what it looks like to me, an amateur flash game. The Pit had similar issues, not just in appearance but in gameplay.

And because it's flash or simple it should be sold?
For you "Newgrounds quality" (or what you percieve to be anyway. I have no idea how the hell can you make such conclusion based on 2 screenshots) stuff MUST be free. Because it's simple.
And yet there is no logical reason for why it should be free, other than you want it to be.
Mind you, plenty of "newgrounds quality" games are actually for sale.

Quote
They were/are small, cheap, amateur games that could have been replicated by a high school or college student as a year-long project; Newgrounds-quality games.

Then go ahead and make a game like that. Put your money where your mouth is if you think even such a simple game is easy to make.


Quote
Is it shameful to charge money for work? Not necessarily, but if someone is attempting to charge for work when it falls below the threshold where a completely free alternative product is a very real possibility? That is shameful behavior.

It is not.
There will always be extreemly talented people who will make free stuff - because they can (for now).
By that logic, anyone who is below their quality is dishonest if he charges for his work.


The irony is that those same creators and programmers who make free stuff will move on to make commercial games. They will end up charging for it if they need money - which will happen once they leave school/college and have to actually earn their daily bread.
 
Title: Re: Kaijus..Kaijus come stompin!
Post by: deathfun on May 27, 2014, 07:46:28 am
Quote
(or what you percieve to be anyway. I have no idea how the hell can you make such conclusion based on 2 screenshots)

As far as I'm concerned, this is primarily my main issue with this particular game. They aren't really showing anything tangible enough to make an informed investment on

So from there, it only makes sense to draw precedence on quality from other games they've made, or to look at similar-as-possible alternatives to do the best you can in terms of information

In this case, flash games, a market known for being free to play, but subject to a great deal of ad revenue if you do it right.



All that is pointless to discuss since there's a video now which gives significantly more information


EDIT:
Should also note that the flash style makes sense for the fact its target audience is of and I quote:
"mobile video-game"
Title: Re: Kaijus..Kaijus come stompin!
Post by: Phantom Hoover on May 27, 2014, 08:14:28 am
My main problem with their behaviour remains: mobile games are notably cheap to make. So are roguelikes (I mean christ, the best roguelikes are all open-source!). Yet Kerberos apparently need a big pile of crowdfunding money to make either (oh wow, I only noticed now that they were asking for $60k for The Pit, but when they only got $20k suddenly that was enough to make it).
Title: Re: Kaijus..Kaijus come stompin!
Post by: Luis Dias on May 27, 2014, 08:53:02 am
JUST LOOK AT THE ANIMATIONS WHEN THE MONSTER KILLS THE BUILDING SO AMAZING SO HD I HAVE NO PC THAT CAN PLAY THIS OMG
Title: Re: Kaijus..Kaijus come stompin!
Post by: Lorric on May 27, 2014, 09:14:53 am
JUST LOOK AT THE ANIMATIONS WHEN THE MONSTER KILLS THE BUILDING SO AMAZING SO HD I HAVE NO PC THAT CAN PLAY THIS OMG
What's your point Luis?
Title: Re: Kaijus..Kaijus come stompin!
Post by: Luis Dias on May 27, 2014, 10:15:33 am
That these guys are so ****ing lazy that the best **** they have to "show off" of their gameplay is the ****tiest **** ever ****ted by any **** ever.

These guys must play WoW every single day and then they go "wow look at the time, don't we have some game to code or smth? Mike, heh, just put together smth for a video, k, like.." "man but this Mario game is so ****ing epic right now" "Oh **** yeah you're right nevermind we'll do this tomorrow"
Title: Re: Kaijus..Kaijus come stompin!
Post by: Phantom Hoover on May 27, 2014, 10:29:51 am
I find it utterly hilarious that they need any amount of external investment at all to turn the 'pre-alpha' they have shown into the functional piece of trash they're proposing to make.
Title: Re: Kaijus..Kaijus come stompin!
Post by: Luis Dias on May 27, 2014, 10:33:59 am
It's even obscene when you compare the amount of "work" these guys can output with someone like Josh Parnell or ... ****, any other on Kickstarter! They're not even trying, scumbags who think it's so cool to have all the internets to pay their bills while they... do... what exactly? Because it's obvious they are not spending time and resources into making the game. What the hell are they doing with their time and kickstarter's money? Quakelive tournaments? What a life that must be.
Title: Re: Kaijus..Kaijus come stompin!
Post by: Lorric on May 27, 2014, 10:34:54 am
Well, if it makes you feel any better, it doesn't look like their Kickstarter is going to succeed. The needle has barely moved since the OP. And a good bulk of that money is taken up by people going for the higher tier packages. Even Trashman is only interested because he essentially likes Kerberos' style rather than what has been presented in the Kickstarter and thinks it will be an amusing way to while away the dead time at work. So even he hasn't exactly given it a ringing endorsement.
Title: Re: Kaijus..Kaijus come stompin!
Post by: TrashMan on May 27, 2014, 01:57:06 pm
Quote
In this case, flash games, a market known for being free to play, but subject to a great deal of ad revenue if you do it right.

There is no "right" way to did it accoring to you.
You complain agaisnt any type of monetizing they would try to do.

Have you even checked GOG or Steam or any other game sellers catalogues? There are tons and tons of simpler games, all for sale.

Like I said, just because there is someone willing to give you a Mona Lisa for free, htat odens't mena htat now everyone who is at or below the quality of that guy now suddenly just give you his stuff for free.



@Luis diaz - your judgment of video game quality is null and void, as is your assesment of time, effort and skill required to make games. And your posts are filled with nothing but bile, hell hte forum has to censor every second word you spew.
Objective you are MOST DEFIANTELY not.
Title: Re: Kaijus..Kaijus come stompin!
Post by: Scotty on May 27, 2014, 03:21:43 pm
Quote
In this case, flash games, a market known for being free to play, but subject to a great deal of ad revenue if you do it right.

There is no "right" way to did it accoring to you.
You complain agaisnt any type of monetizing they would try to do.

Have you even checked GOG or Steam or any other game sellers catalogues? There are tons and tons of simpler games, all for sale.

Like I said, just because there is someone willing to give you a Mona Lisa for free, htat odens't mena htat now everyone who is at or below the quality of that guy now suddenly just give you his stuff for free.



@Luis diaz - your judgment of video game quality is null and void, as is your assesment of time, effort and skill required to make games. And your posts are filled with nothing but bile, hell hte forum has to censor every second word you spew.
Objective you are MOST DEFIANTELY not.


I don't believe at any point NGTM-1R said that there are no games of relatively ****ty quality up for sale.  His entire point is that putting those kinds of games up for sale is entrepreneurial dishonest at best, and an outright scam at worst.  Given that this is Kerberos we're talking about, either possibility is equally likely.
Title: Re: Kaijus..Kaijus come stompin!
Post by: Colonol Dekker on May 27, 2014, 03:55:41 pm
It does look very basic. Similar to that Simpson Springfield game.
Title: Re: Kaijus..Kaijus come stompin!
Post by: NGTM-1R on May 27, 2014, 06:26:08 pm
Even if your work is not the highest of quality, even if there are others who will provide similar stuff for free - you do have the right to charge for your work, as long as it's yours. The existence of alternatives is irrelevant. Your work is your own, time and effort spent is your own.  And it merits compensation - especially if it's how you make your living.

I never made the argument you couldn't.

I made the argument it was fundamentally immoral, and ultimately destructive of the company's reputation with customers; a reputation without which they are reduced to the state of a startup, and anybody can tell you startups usually run red until they build a reputation.

I have the right to go around calling African-Americans racist things. That's a right. That does not, however, make it either an intelligent or a moral thing to do.

For you "Newgrounds quality" (or what you percieve to be anyway. I have no idea how the hell can you make such conclusion based on 2 screenshots) stuff MUST be free. Because it's simple.

Would you care to reassess this statement now that the video has dropped? Because my case for quality ain't getting weaker.


Then go ahead and make a game like that. Put your money where your mouth is if you think even such a simple game is easy to make.

I'm not the right major.

And more to the point, this is a hackneyed response that you should know better than to make, because everyone should know better than to make it by the time they leave elementary school. I don't have to be able to make the game to point out its flaws or make an educated guess as to its development cycle. A doctor does not have to get sick with a disease to diagnose it. People make estimates and projections of the future every day; it's one of the cornerstones of being able to run a business.
Title: Re: Kaijus..Kaijus come stompin!
Post by: Spoon on May 27, 2014, 08:29:28 pm
I see this thread has improved tremendously after the lock and warnings were handed out  :p
Title: Re: Kaijus..Kaijus come stompin!
Post by: Axem on May 27, 2014, 08:49:39 pm
Yeah, this isn't going anywhere.