[Killfrenzy]

Why have they got them? A thought struck me last night and I checked the AF Kato model. She has shields.

WHY??

We are told that the Ancients don't have shield technology, mainly because they're whining about how they can't penetrate the shields of the Shivans.

If they HAD shield tech, then they'd know how to penetrate with weapons and they may not have died!

Sorry, rant over....

[Woomeister]

The Ancient fighters have shield meshes, but we don't use them. All Ancient fighters and bombers are shieldless in Inferno.

[Killfrenzy]

Oh......

*Slithers away*

[pyro-manic]

Wasn't that just the Lucifer, though? I'm sure they were pretty much up to (if not above) the level of technology the GTVA has - they built the Knossos, they developed subspace sensors, etc. They could track the Lucifer through subspace, but they didn't have any ships left to attack it with when it came after them....

EDIT: oops. Too late again. Ignore me!/EDIT

[Killfrenzy]

No, not just the Lucy. It's not specific enough the statement:

"In Subspace they cannot use their shields."

It suggests that they're talking in general, not just about the Lucifer.

They may have had higher tech than the GTVA, but we still had to pinch shield tech off the Shivans in the first place!

Maybe the Ancients were too complacent?

[pyro-manic]

Hmm. That's how I read into it - that monologue thingy tied in with the "Oh damn, we can't touch Lucy 'cos it's shields are too good" thing in the game. Guess I just interpreted it differently. Oh well...

[TopAce]

I think the ancients and shields somehow don't match. I don't know if they were rather a 'spreading in hide' or 'spreading by conquering'-class species. But as I belive, they certainly had no enemies previously, so they had no reason why to develop shields. The GTA and the PVN hadn't had shields before they stole the Shivan containers. So why would the ancients develop shields?

If the ancients had had enemies before the Shivans, the GTVA would have discovered more artifacts not only from the ancients.
Damn! Is the sentence above a good conditional and past perfect mixture?

[Corhellion]

Well, you have to think about one paragraph in one of the Ancients Monologues:

"We could fore go one system, we left it to the destroyers and went else where, But they followed us."

Sounds like the Ancients are a bit thick skulled...

"Oh boy! A new race to conquer!" *ancients capital ship is vaporised by the Lucifer* "...Uh...Look over there!" *Lucifer turns around* *Ancients escape the system* "Hmmm...Hey Carl...I don't see anything...hey...WHERE'D THEY GO?!?!"

...Or somethin' like that...

*looks at the people looking at him oddly*

*points to something behind the people*

Oh look! A puppy!

*people look away*

*Cor runs*

[TopAce]

Originally posted by Corhellion
....."We could fore go one system, we left it to the destroyers and went else where, But they followed us."

Sounds like the Ancients are a bit thick skulled...

"Oh boy! A new race to conquer!" *ancients capital ship is vaporised by the Lucifer* "...Uh...Look over there!" *Lucifer turns around* *Ancients escape the system* "Hmmm...Hey Carl...I don't see anything...hey...WHERE'D THEY GO?!?!"

...Or somethin' like that...

*looks at the people looking at him oddly*

*points to something behind the people*

Oh look! A puppy!

*people look away*

*Cor runs*

Despite they were easily defeated by the Shivans, it is possible that they were conquerous species, the question is just that who were their enemy before the Shivans?

Have I told this: The ancients were SURELY a conquerous species??? No. So, shut up, I haven't told anything certain.

If you read my post intensively(the previous one), you can discover that I haven't stated that the ancients spreaded their empire by warring another species. Because the GTVA would have discovered more remnants, not only from the ancients.[/b]

[Hudzy]

Doesn't one of the first monologues say about them expanding their empire and conquering other species before they met the Shivans?

[TopAce]

It's been a long I have player FS1 and listened to the the cutscenes. Time to refresh my FS1 knowledge ... but not now.

[StratComm]

I think that the Ancients' conquering was more of lower races than technologically equivalent ones.  I mean, the monologues from FS1 doesn't seem like they had wars, but rather more like that they enslaved any sentient race that they came across when building their empire.  It is also possible that they developed technology in a different concentration than the GTVA; with the Unification wars (or whatever was supposed to precede the T-V war), the Terran-Vasudan war, and the Shivan invasion, humans (and vasudans) would have had a much more pressing need to develop military technology quickly; facing lesser enemies (or enslaving those who could not fight back) left the ancients ill-prepared to deal with the shivans when they arrived.

And I vote no, they should not have had shields

[killadonuts]

You people worry too much about canon than you do about gameplay.   If the ancients have no shields, they will be virtually worthless as allies.  Likewise, If they are hostile they will melt under the powerful weaponry of the allied arsenal.  So stop the whining and make the campaign a good one. Dammit

[Killfrenzy]

Just up their hull hitpoints then. Yeesh....

[TopAce]

Originally posted by killadonuts
You people worry too much about canon than you do about gameplay.   If the ancients have no shields, they will be virtually worthless as allies.  Likewise, If they are hostile they will melt under the powerful weaponry of the allied arsenal.  So stop the whining and make the campaign a good one. Dammit

I also voted no, perhaps to balance the gameplay, the Ancients would have more powerful weaponry, same power as the kaysers, or Prom S+, and lower energy requirement.

[T-Man]

The Shivans were the only race with sheilds (the GTVA stole it off them), so instead they would fill the ships up with armor.

This would be balanced by the Ancients having powerfull weaponry and superb speed (the "mighty beams of the GTVA" cant melt that which is too fast to hit:D!)

The idea of the Ancients lacking shields adds a unique race to the Freespace universe, and allows the Inferno team to experiment with different ways of balancing races.

[Woolie Wool]

Originally posted by killadonuts
You people worry too much about canon than you do about gameplay.   If the ancients have no shields, they will be virtually worthless as allies.  Likewise, If they are hostile they will melt under the powerful weaponry of the allied arsenal.  So stop the whining and make the campaign a good one. Dammit

Wrong. The Ancients are very fast and have very powerful weapons--the Scythe cannon blasts through shields and armor in no time and the Quasar is like a hot knife through butter when it comes to armor--about twice the damage of the Maxim IIRC). Despite their shields, Ancient fighters and bombers take quite a long time to die because they have sooooooo many hitpoints (1000 for the Kato, which is damn near impossible to hit; around 6000 for the Zakros; and an insane 12500 for the 120m wide Satyr bomber, which can reach 95 m/s without AB and turn almost as quickly (if not more quickly) than the Ennead PLUS it has 12 gun points and a beam turret). Ancients are dangerous foes.

[Woomeister]

Yeah they have lots of HP, otherwise they're cannon fodder for the hastor and Ripper cannons.
The Kato is nasty, can keep a wing of Gorgons at bay, and can outrun most GTVA fighters.
Ancient weapons are as strong or probably stronger than the players own, though you won't see many fighters with the Scyth for balance reasons

mighty beams of the GTVA" cant melt that which is too fast to hit

The Gordia can actually dodge beams sometimes since its quite fast

[TopAce]

How is a simple, small fighter supposed to have that great amount of hitpoints? It is too unrealistic and is an exegeneration. In real life, an insect flies directly into your fighter and you die.

[Woomeister]

Very good armour

I don't want the Ancient ships dieing after a few hits.