Hard Light Productions Forums
General FreeSpace => Multiplayer => Topic started by: haloboy100 on December 21, 2006, 06:50:00 pm
-
ya i know. i got the almighty "Hacked media tables" message and then i can't log in. i need the already obvious answer, but i'm oblivious and i already searched the fourms (using the little search thinger) for the answer. don't flame me pleese....
thanks in advance
oh and i have the latest VPs and such. using the installer.
-
"Tom's old engine" build should fix the problems. See www.freespacezone.com for the download... it's at the end of the page.
-
i hope it wont screw anything up....it seems everything i download to fix a problem just causes other problems....
-
yep. i knew it. now it jsut says "faied to connect" i know i got an internet connection or else i coulden't post
-
Don't use Tom's engine build. It's horribly buggy, and we don't support it.
The "hacked tables" message is just a problem we have with the current validation system. Right now we can't really fix it, so you just have to live with the fact that your stats won't be stored. :) Rest assured that it'll be fixed as soon as possible.
-
i coulden't care less about my stats. all i care about is if i can play or not. and as of now, I CAN'T ****ING PLAY! and i can't play regardless i have toms build or not. so know what?
-
Have you read this thread and the thread it links to?
http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,43070.0.html
-
i coulden't care less about my stats. all i care about is if i can play or not. and as of now, I CAN'T ****ING PLAY! and i can't play regardless i have toms build or not. so know what?
If you're getting to the hacked tables message then the only thing you should need is people to play with. What's the problem?
-
the problem is i'm still getting the "failed to connect" message. like i said above
-
Umm. You can't get the hacked tables message unless you've successfully connected. Do whatever you were doing before you started this thread and you'll be fine.
-
WHATEVER I WAS DOING BEFORE A POSTED?! BEFORE I POSTED I WAS TRYING TO CONNECT TO THE ****ING MULTIPLAYER!! !!
for the last time....my problem was i got the h acked tables message, and THEN it said FAILED TO CONNECT!!!!!\
ugh.....sorry for the caps...
-
go directly to jail. do not pass go, do not collect $200
-
Haloboy, read the thread I linked to. It explains, step by step, how to get set up for multiplayer.
-
i already did, i couldent connect to my router for some reason so i just forwarded freespace using windows(my network places) instead.
-
How the hell are you forwarding ports using my network places?
-
i right clicked on "internet connection", pressed proporties, then settings, then i pressed "add" and put in the port number and stuff.
since putting "192.168.0.5"(my IP) into the web browser did nothing, and 192.168.0.1(deault) asked me for a uswername and password i have NO IDEA about, i used windows.
-
be careful there, you almost hacked your own router... :D
-
eh? how?
-
i get these hacked tables, and i dont bother getting annoyed about it.
haloboy, dont mess about with your router settings or you could have more to deal with then a simple fs2 connection/error problems if you dont know how to edit the thing.
a good idea as goober5000 said; is retrace your steps before this incident, or ideally you might have to wait like me and every other person for this error to go away.
-
Sorry it didnt help. I remembered about tom's old when i was downloadin those pesky FS2 vanilla discs
-
how was i messing with my router? i was just forwarding the ports like the walthrough said.
actually, i'm not gonna bother with this crap. if i can't play multiplayer then i see absolutly no reason why i should keep playing freespace 2. (and don't start throwing reasons why i should keep playing cause frankly i don't give a damn)
-
well its upto you if you be like that, after all we are trying to help you.
see you around haloboy :blah:.
-
how was i messing with my router? i was just forwarding the ports like the walthrough said.
actually, i'm not gonna bother with this crap. if i can't play multiplayer then i see absolutly no reason why i should keep playing freespace 2. (and don't start throwing reasons why i should keep playing cause frankly i don't give a damn)
You know, if this is how you treat the people who help you, and this is how easily you give up, then maybe you aren't cut out to play multiplayer in the first place.
-
Haloboy, make sure that you don't have the mediavps selected, as that will cause the hacked tables message.
-
meh. i always sucked at multiplayer anyway
plus, lets face it. everybody here plays freespace because of the multiplayer. that or FREDing. and since i never liked FREDing, i'm just gonna have to wait untill SOME kind of answer shows up.
and for the last time, this is not about hacked media tables. its about being able to frikin connect.
-
and for the last time, this is not about hacked media tables. its about being able to frikin connect.
i got the almighty "Hacked media tables" message
get rid of the tom's engine build, put this (http://www.game-warden.com/fs2open_pxo.cfg) into C:\Games\FreeSpace2\data\, and run without any mods selected.
-
i already did that. i did every step in mathewpapa's FAQ
-
The simple answer is that what you did in my network places didn't open a port in your router. If it were that easy to open a port in a router every hacker in the world would be doing it. What ever it is that you did do you need to remove it.
When you typed in 192.168.0.1 the username and password it asked for were the ones for your router. You need to find out what they are and get into your routers setup options in order to forward a port.
-
meh. i always sucked at multiplayer anyway
plus, lets face it. everybody here plays freespace because of the multiplayer. that or FREDing. and since i never liked FREDing, i'm just gonna have to wait untill SOME kind of answer shows up.
and for the last time, this is not about hacked media tables. its about being able to frikin connect.
Wow, what are you, 10? Not only that, but your "reasons for people playing Freespace" are totally wrong - multiplayer is almost nonexistant, everyone plays for the user-made campaigns (which is done via FREDing...you don't play Freespace 2 for it's mission creator...:wtf:)
Anyway, seriously, if you're going to be so rude to the people who are trying to help you, why should anyone continue trying?
-
i'm wondering the exact same thing. And the reason why i did the thing in my network places is because Xfire, limewire, and Halo did the exact same thing i did. so i see no reason why i shoulden't do it for freespace 2
-
Freespace 2 is older then xfire limewire and halo altogether and internet connections were like there in the stone age compared to todays connection, after all freespace 2 is 7 years old and in computer game years is about.. 300 human years.
the reason why im here is to see if fs2 is still alive and play campaigns done by others such as jad and jad 2.
-
the reason why I am here is because i wanted a place where i can actually hang out with people who play freespace 2. but i guess freespace 2 is just too boring to be worth anything. looks like it's back to EBay for this game.
-
and don't let the door hit you on the way out :no:
-
Let me get this straight. You've failed to set up Freespace 2 properly for multiplayer because you don't have a clue how to forward ports on your router and that's somehow FS2's fault for being boring?
-
what? forwarding and boring in the same setence dont go together :lol:.
-
the reason why I am here is because i wanted a place where i can actually hang out with people who play freespace 2. but i guess freespace 2 is just too boring to be worth anything. looks like it's back to EBay for this game.
Toodles. If it weren't for the fact that the mods have already warned me, I would say some harsher things about you, but I can't.
-
"Tom's old engine" build should fix the problems. See www.freespacezone.com for the download... it's at the end of the page.
no, it's just a cheat that circumvents the security checks and should be banned
-
Haloboy, make sure that you don't have the mediavps selected, as that will cause the hacked tables message.
confirmed :)
-
If you cannot connect, chances are
A. Some firewall is blocking your outbound connection attempts
B. You don;t have the pxo config file in the right spot
-
Yep. Pretty much every connection error I've seen has been down to one of those two problems.
-
the reason why I am here is because i wanted a place where i can actually hang out with people who play freespace 2. but i guess freespace 2 is just too boring to be worth anything. looks like it's back to EBay for this game.
I think your halo has slipped! :lol:
-
Well, I recently stumbled upon this community (yay FS Wiki!), and I too had some minor issues playing multiplayer (well, setting it up.. I've not played any games yet - Where are you all?! =p).
First of all, a problem I had that wasn't covered by the FAQ, was the existence of a certain "multi.cfg" file in my Data folder, which I assume was over-riding the fs2open_pxo.cfg. Deleting this "multi.cfg" and making my own "fs2open_pxo.cfg" in Freespace2\Data and in Freespace2\mediavps\Data with the appropriate lines* resolved this issue and allowed me to connect :).
Also, you might want to try setting up Port Forwarding directly from your router. Your router's username/password will almost certainly be the default, but what the defaults are depend on your make and model. Go to portforward.com, and check the routers section for instructions on the default username/password, and how to set up port forwarding (your router model can usually be found on a handy label on the router itself). This is usually pretty simple actually, though may appear daunting at first.
Good luck, and greetings to the rest of you (this being my first post and all)!
*These lines being:
64.92.160.250
12000
-
First of all, a problem I had that wasn't covered by the FAQ, was the existence of a certain "multi.cfg" file in my Data folder, which I assume was over-riding the fs2open_pxo.cfg.
This was not your problem.
making my own "fs2open_pxo.cfg" in Freespace2\mediavps\Data with the appropriate lines*
That was your problem. :D
There is an old config file in mv_core.vp. The result is that any mod running with the media VPs active will use this in preference to the one that they should be using (i.e the one in Freespace2\Data). Putting that file in Freespace2\mediavps\Data overrides the override and gives you back the functionality you're looking for.
BTW if I were you'd replace the IP address with FS2NetD.Game-Warden.com IP Addresses change a lot more often than domain names :)
-
Ah well my issue was that I'd already placed the fs2open_pxo.cfg in all the right places but it still wouldn't work.. After I got rid of the Multi.cfg I had no issues, though I suppose I may have inadvertantly done something else to fix it :D.
And thank you, I'll alter the config file to FS2NetD.Game-Warden.com now :).
-
@ Switchfoot
:welcome:
{insert favourite welcome speech here, cos I'm too lazy, (read my sig :D)}
-
hey...i never got a welcome beam.....
-
Here Haloboy100
:welcome:
:)
-
hey...i never got a welcome beam.....
That's because there's a reason for that.
-
A most gracious welcome, Wobble. I thank thee :D.
Had any luck on the MP front Haloboy?
-
oh ya i fixed that, but it wasent really worth it. furing peask hours i only see about 3 servers. (compared to the 200 on halo and the 2000+ on ut2004)
-
Don't use Tom's engine build. It's horribly buggy, and we don't support it.
The "hacked tables" message is just a problem we have with the current validation system. Right now we can't really fix it, so you just have to live with the fact that your stats won't be stored. :) Rest assured that it'll be fixed as soon as possible.
hym so thats why check sums on client and server dont match? is it server side bug or what? i had idea of getting just those 2 damn tables, but where from? :p
i did everything all right i played few games, but stats was tossed i connected etc.. thing work good with toms [Jeez i got validation] but it crashes others. and dont give us this same link on warden cause i read it like 10 ten times and nearly cant quote it when suddenly woke up in night. and was trying to fight it like on 5 different installs
its mostly very strange some ppl ddint have this rpoblem ? [wtf? hym, could somebody post his multi cfg? iwihs to see ur check sums of wepons and ship .tbl]
-
If you run FS2_Open with the no mods option selected (From the mod tab) then you won't get the error and your stats should be saved.
If they aren't I suspect the problem is the same one DW-Hunter was getting earlier on this thread.
-
man, i told ya i read all offical faq's like 10 times, got 3 different retail versions, i had never ever any mod selected, got data pxo config in data. toms working, last 3.6.9 not[with newest luncher]. i m not using media vp. tell something i dont know. if it works i'll buy you beer ;]
and from what is think THAT is the problem
01/14 12:44:45~ Precompletion Table Get: CheckSize = 712, recvsize = 712
01/14 12:44:45~ PostCompletion Tables Get: CheckSize = 712, recvsize = 712
01/14 12:44:45~ Table Validation: ships.tbl => client checksum: 3272157290, server checksum: 3040681930
01/14 12:44:45~ Table Validation: ships.tbl => client checksum: 3272157290, server checksum: 3040681930
01/14 12:44:45~ Table Validation: ships.tbl => client checksum: 3272157290, server checksum: 844491561
01/14 12:44:45~ Table Validation: ships.tbl => client checksum: 3272157290, server checksum: 3040681930
01/14 12:44:45~ Table Validation: ships.tbl => client checksum: 3272157290, server checksum: 844491561
01/14 12:44:45~ Table Validation: weapons.tbl => client checksum: 399297860, server checksum: 3740982369
01/14 12:44:45~ Table Validation: weapons.tbl => client checksum: 399297860, server checksum: 3740982369
01/14 12:44:45~ Table Validation: weapons.tbl => client checksum: 399297860, server checksum: 816113663
01/14 12:44:45~ Table Validation: weapons.tbl => client checksum: 399297860, server checksum: 816113663
01/14 12:44:45~ Table Validation: weapons.tbl => client checksum: 399297860, server checksum: 3740982369
01/14 12:44:45~ Table Validation: weapons.tbl => client checksum: 399297860, server checksum: 816113663
01/14 12:44:45~ FS2netD sent PING
01/14 12:44:45~ FS2NetD received PONG: 135 ms
01/14 12:44:47~ FS2OpenPXO: Login Vesper/manticore is valid, Session ID is 950390868!
[confirmed in tvalid by]
ai.tbl ... (not on server)
asteroid.tbl ... (not on server)
credits.tbl ... (not on server)
cutscenes.tbl ... (not on server)
fireball.tbl ... (not on server)
help.tbl ... (not on server)
hud.tbl ... (not on server)
icons.tbl ... (not on server)
launchhelp.tbl ... (not on server)
lightning.tbl ... (not on server)
mainhall.tbl ... (not on server)
medals.tbl ... (not on server)
menu.tbl ... (not on server)
messages.tbl ... (not on server)
mflash.tbl ... (not on server)
music.tbl ... (not on server)
nebula.tbl ... (not on server)
pixels.tbl ... (not on server)
rank.tbl ... (not on server)
ships.tbl ... invalid
sounds.tbl ... (not on server)
Species.tbl ... (not on server)
ssm.tbl ... (not on server)
stars.tbl ... (not on server)
strings.tbl ... (not on server)
tips.tbl ... (not on server)
traitor.tbl ... (not on server)
tstrings.tbl ... (not on server)
weapon_expl.tbl ... (not on server)
weapons.tbl ... invalid
and yes i m wroking on 1.20 retail version and didnt ever changed nothing in tables
so now can someone answer:
is it server side problem or i need to get tbl from someone ho got validation? cause extracting them from my root_fs2.vp is quite idiotic -cause those tbl are corrupeted then
:D
-
Did you install the game using the online installer?
Check your freespace2 folder and see how large your root_fs2.vp file is. If it's ~5.6MB in size replace it with the ~6MB file from in here (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/karajorma/FAQ/Downloads/HotUv1.20Pack.rar).
-
no i m trying to work on cd image version and it got size like 5,31 ;]
it worked. it thought it could be the cause^^
man i owe you ;]
-
No problem. The cause was that you were running with the v1.0 VP and the game validates the v1.2 VP only.
-
And one more for Kyu:---
:welcome:
;) ;) ;) ;) ;) :lol:
-
And one more for Kyu:---
:welcome:
;) ;) ;) ;) ;) :lol:
:( :( :( :( :( i gonna have to make my own...
-
ai.tbl ... (not on server)
asteroid.tbl ... (not on server)
credits.tbl ... (not on server)
cutscenes.tbl ... (not on server)
fireball.tbl ... (not on server)
help.tbl ... (not on server)
hud.tbl ... (not on server)
icons.tbl ... (not on server)
launchhelp.tbl ... (not on server)
lightning.tbl ... (not on server)
mainhall.tbl ... (not on server)
medals.tbl ... (not on server)
menu.tbl ... (not on server)
messages.tbl ... (not on server)
mflash.tbl ... (not on server)
music.tbl ... (not on server)
nebula.tbl ... (not on server)
pixels.tbl ... (not on server)
rank.tbl ... (not on server)
ships.tbl ... invalid
sounds.tbl ... (not on server)
Species.tbl ... (not on server)
ssm.tbl ... (not on server)
stars.tbl ... (not on server)
strings.tbl ... (not on server)
tips.tbl ... (not on server)
traitor.tbl ... (not on server)
tstrings.tbl ... (not on server)
weapon_expl.tbl ... (not on server)
weapons.tbl ... invalid
and yes i m wroking on 1.20 retail version and didnt ever changed nothing in tables
so now can someone answer:
is it server side problem or i need to get tbl from someone ho got validation? cause extracting them from my root_fs2.vp is quite idiotic -cause those tbl are corrupeted then
Looks like you have an older version of the root_fs2.vp. Here (http://fszmirror.com/files/Root_fs2.zip) is the latest one that they validated. For those who also have the same problem I should let you know that none of the other tables are valid on SCP, although all volition made tables ARE valid on toms build. Poor planning on SCP's part I know since there are 3 different versions of 1.2 tables, GotY, SotY and the newest ones.
-
And one more for Kyu:---
:welcome:
;) ;) ;) ;) ;) :lol:
:( :( :( :( :( i gonna have to make my own...
Your own what? Welcome?I've beamed you already! If you mean welcome beam, just use the one everyone else uses!
P.S. Don't that Halo slip again m8! :lol:
-
that was for kyu, like you said
-
that was for kyu, like you said
Here Haloboy100
:welcome:
:)
Honestly though, it's not that big a deal. I never got one.
-
::)
As Turey said, it's not that big a deal!
-
Aw, poor haloboy...he didn't a completely meaningless image shown to him, and when he did, he missed it...
*single tear/emo/slits wrists* :(
:p
-
lol i tend to make a big deal out of small things when i don't have anything that i should make a big deal out of around.
-
"Tom's old engine" build should fix the problems. See www.freespacezone.com for the download... it's at the end of the page.
no, it's just a cheat that circumvents the security checks and should be banned
How is toms build a cheat now?
-
lol i tend to make a big deal out of small things when i don't have anything that i should make a big deal out of around.
Solution:
Don't do that.
-
i don't see why not
-
Anyone using Toms build will be left out in the cold soon anyway, it broke compatability with other versions and, despite putting it off for some time, FS2NET is going to have to become incompatible with it soon, possibly in a month or two. IIRC it's something to do with version numbers.
-
Well actually, toms build IS compatible with the scp build in TvT :P
Tom has been playing multi lately, and im sure he is going to make the necessary changes to make his build more compatible with the scp build.
-
Yes, it's compatible at the moment. However, I'd need Kara to confirm the details, but I'm not sure just how much the whole FSNET2 is going to change.
Basically, we are trying to promote the SCP, features and all, and the more people are playing on Toms build the less people are actually testing the SCP to get rid of those bugs. If another version of Toms build comes out, it may well simply be that those problems will get transferred on to another generation.
Personally, I'd much rather people actually helped the SCP guys fix the bugs in the main and supported version so that everyone can play multiplayer than having multiple versions of Freespace 2 knocking around with different SexP's and feature support. It actually makes the coders' job a lot harder, and also makes expanding the abilities of SCP Multiplay to support new game modes etc a lot harder as well.
Toms build was a great addition at the time, the multiplayer support for Freespace hadn't been touched that much and it allowed people to play online again, but we need to move on from it, I don't want it to become a ball and chain around the ankle of the SCP, The whole purpose of the SCP is to make Freespace even more than it was originally, it's a rocky road, I'll admit, but that just means we need everyone pulling the cart, as it were.
-
My problem with Tom's build isn't that it sucks away people from the FS2_Open community or anything like that. My only problem is that we only ever see the people who use it around here to moan about the SCP or complain that we've broken something on their build with a change and that's a relatively minor one anyway.
Let me see if I can get my point across without this degenerating into an argument. Tom's build basically exists cause some multiplayer people decided that once PXO went down they wanted to keep playing online. Kazan had already developed a way to play FS2_Open online but FS2_Open was less stable in those days so they decided to make the build rather than wait for the SCP to improve. Now that's fair enough. If the multi community don't want to play on FS2_Open and don't want to help us improve the game and bug fix that's their right.
However, that's not what I want (and although I don't want to speak for him I suspect that's not what Taylor wants either). My goal for multiplayer is not to be stuck with what FS2 had. I want to see 64 player dogfights. I want to see FS2_Open multiplayer compete with any commercial space sim out there (if there were any! :rolleyes:). And if I know how to do that and if I have the time I'm going to code it in.
So how does Tom's build come into that? Simple fact is that it doesn't. I don't care if my changes cause packet incompatibilities that break Tom's build. I don't care if they require PXO/FS2NetD changes that break it. I'm not going to go out of my way to break or disable Tom's build but if my changes mean it stops working I don't care. Cause Tom's build is basically proof that the multi community don't particularly care for the SCP so why should we care about them?
My goal is to make the SCP the best mulitplayer it can be. IF Tom's build has to keep patching to keep up so be it. If it falls behind and becomes unstable/unusable that's not my problem.
-
I would like to add onto that so people know, Toms is NOT completely incompatible. You can still play TvT on toms and retail with a FS2_Open host but you cannot play Co-Op. Yet I have no control over Toms/Retail being compatible in the end, but ATLEAST use the code from toms as an advantage to use his features that he added. Heres the list of things I can think of he added, although I know there are more.
- When a person trys to join a game while the game is in progress, a message pops up in the text area, saying (name) has knocked on the door. It showed while you were in briefing/debrief/in game.
- Theres a stat list of everyones kills and assists that you can toggle (in game).
- When you join a game, everyone will see a message telling you what build is being used.
- In game banning.
- When that person is banned their IP is shown
- A WORKING standalone server
Also if you add these changes, I propose to do add on to it as well. And if you guys put it in, and Let it see if toms or retail is being used and they can still join via IP even when toms acceptance is removed from fs2netd. It would show <(name)is using a not compatible build> rather then just saying #aes^$8d@ when the person joins because it cant read the version number. How you can do it is, if it trys to read the version number, and does't get any results from that, it automaticly puts in non compatible build. This way the person knows not to play Co-Op
--Thanks for your time to read this =)
<edit> Can someone get the standalone working please, Teamwars (http://www.teamwars.org) needs to be functioning when we start our tournament.
-
Cause Tom's build is basically proof that the multi community don't particularly care for the SCP so why should we care about them?
Hmm... I thought it was more like the "stable branch" before we had one.
Or would you seriously recommend anyone but the SCP/other FSO project members to use FSO HEAD for multi?
-
In case you guys are wondering where we are going to get this toms build code, I believe Tom handed it over to Taylor but im not 100% sure it was taylor he gave it to, I DO know for a fact he handed it over to one of the SCP coders however.
-
Hmm... I thought it was more like the "stable branch" before we had one.
Or would you seriously recommend anyone but the SCP/other FSO project members to use FSO HEAD for multi?
Tom's build is not the stable branch. :wtf: Tom's build is basically retail with a buggy version of FS2NetD stuck onto it.
-
I would rather have my face sandblasted off, before I ran that build through my copy of Freespace.
-
Hmm... I thought it was more like the "stable branch" before we had one.
Or would you seriously recommend anyone but the SCP/other FSO project members to use FSO HEAD for multi?
Tom's build is not the stable branch. :wtf: Tom's build is basically retail with a buggy version of FS2NetD stuck onto it.
if thats true, how come it never crashed until you changed up 3.6.9s multiplayer setup ? I think you have your facts backwards goober. Toms may have bugs but they definitly arent apparent like the ones that were happening in your build.
I would rather have my face sandblasted off, before I ran that build through my copy of Freespace.
I was saying the same thing about FS2_Open when it was buggy as hell in multiplayer :P
-
That's because it was written for a 300Mhz processor and a 4Mb Graphics card.
And bugs don't have to cause crashes, they just have to produce errors.
Part of the reason for upgrading Multiplay, as I understand it, is to improve the packet design so that it puts far less weight on the server for each player. That way, as Kara said, you can have 64 player Multiplay etc.
I'm with Kara here, FSO will just keep getting upgraded, if you want to play Toms build, and Tom wants to continue supporting it, then fine, I'm not certain what will happen when new Multiplayer stuff using FSO Sexp's etc starts making its way onto the server, but it may take more maintenance than simply the Network code, and certainly scripted Multiplayer scenarios, when they appear, will be pretty much inaccessible unless Toms also willing to add Lua support etc.
These are all things that the SCP team want to add to FSO Multiplay, it allows you to have far far more than the current options in Multiplayer, the possibilities abound. However, the more people that are using Toms build, the less people there are finding those problems and reporting them, the less chance there is that they will get fixed, the less the likelihood of Freespace 2 multiplay growing outside it's own little community and the less people for you to shoot at. ;)
-
Tom's build is not the stable branch. :wtf: Tom's build is basically retail with a buggy version of FS2NetD stuck onto it.
Yes, I know. What I meant was that back then Toms was, in practice, a lot more stable than fso, with buggy_fs2net. Therefore it was used.
But I rather use 3.6.9 now.
-
Cause Tom's build is basically proof that the multi community don't particularly care for the SCP so why should we care about them?
Hmm... I thought it was more like the "stable branch" before we had one.
Or would you seriously recommend anyone but the SCP/other FSO project members to use FSO HEAD for multi?
Tom's build is basically the source as it was put out by Volition themselves with a few additions including FS2NetD. As far as I know the FS2NetD code is the only addition that is from the SCP team.
As for using HEAD builds my position on multi is largely the same as it is for everything else. You shouldn't be using HEAD unless you're developing a mod which needs it or are willing (and able) to help out with bug reporting. Bear in mind that there are likely to be a lot of changes to multi between now and 3.7 which will mean some effort will be required to stay up to date with latest developments. That said we'll be adding some cool stuff along the way. :)
-
if thats true, how come it never crashed until you changed up 3.6.9s multiplayer setup?
3.6.9's multiplayer setup has a whole bunch of bugs fixed. Tom's build does not. Tom's build is trying to do stuff it was never designed to do.
Anyway, this whole thing will become moot when PXO support is restored and you can use the retail build again.
I think you have your facts backwards goober.
Gee, I'm sorry, you're right. You know the source code much better than I do. :wtf:
-
The whole point in using TB was that it didn't (in addition to fs2net bugs) add many new problems to those :v: delivered (which ppl already knew how to avoid).
But this whole argument is a pretty 'artificial', now we got 3.6.9. Everything is just fine :)
-
I hang almost every time I play multiplayer, I don't use Tom's build.
I haven't played with forwarded ports yet, I'll try that today, but taylor indicated it was a code problem (he didn't mention ports) that will be fixed later.
Does anyone know if not forwarding ports can cause hanging? I get good ping times and have no problems connecting.
-
if thats true, how come it never crashed until you changed up 3.6.9s multiplayer setup?
3.6.9's multiplayer setup has a whole bunch of bugs fixed. Tom's build does not. Tom's build is trying to do stuff it was never designed to do.
Anyway, this whole thing will become moot when PXO support is restored and you can use the retail build again.
I think you have your facts backwards goober.
Gee, I'm sorry, you're right. You know the source code much better than I do. :wtf:
Did i say now or did i say before goober? reread my post.
-
Until you're ready to pay the people who work on the SCP Multiplayer code, refer to the image below before you start passing criticism on their creations.
(http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/6840/bull****pennjillettestfsj8.gif)
-
That's from the episode on GMO and starving people in Africa isn't it? :D
-
I don't know, I just googled "STFU Penn" and it came out (saw it as people's avatars before).
Also, as an aside, having David Caruso in your forum corner isn't bad either. He even points to the post and username, along with the appropriate message.
(http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/882/carusofyouuu4jp2igqh3.gif)
-
Until you're ready to pay the people who work on the SCP Multiplayer code, refer to the image below before you start passing criticism on their creations.
OMFG! Why can't anybody READ MY DAMN POST and understand that I wasn't talking about toms build in PRESENT TENSE. god damn...
-
Doesn't matter. You were still wrong whatever tense you were talking about. That's the whole point Goober was on about.
1) Tom's build is not a branch of the SCP. Never has been.
2) Tom's build contained FS2NetD code which is buggy. Since that code has not been fixed it still is buggy.
Past or present tense doesn't matter. Those two facts are still correct.
-
Well, Hunter was wrong in his wording, not so wrong in his meaning.
But this is sooo tiring, maybe we'd better stop here.
-
I haven't really read this thread, so I don't feel it's appropriate for me to really comment on anything directly, but I will mention a couple of things:
1) With 3.6.10, the new FS2NetD code will finally be public, and it will bring:
- non-blocking connections: it won't hang while it tries to connect to the FS2NetD server)
- cross-platform support: it will be compatible with anything that can run FSO (32-bit/64-bit, Windows, Linux, OS X)
- optimized packets: FS2NetD communications will work much better on slower connections as less data will have to be transferred
- all new table validation: it will now only validate the tables which affect multiplayer balance, and it will fully support modular tables
- new cfg file: it will return to using multi.cfg for it's setup, rendering fs2open_pxo.cfg obsolete
- hard-coded defaults: default values for the servers and ports will be hard-coded in the binary, no need to change any cfg files for standard play
2) The new client and server code is NOT compatible with any existing builds, including Tom's. All builds, except ones with the new FS2NetD code, will no longer be able to connect to the server the moment the daemon switches to the new version. Tom will have to redo his build, ripping out all existing FS2NetD code and replacing it with the new FS2NetD API, in order to once again be compatible.
So, in about 3-4 months, there either won't be a "Tom's" build to worry about, or there will be and it will be using the new FS2NetD API which forces the use of all fixes. Either way, the discussion is basically moot.
-
Well, Hunter was wrong in his wording, not so wrong in his meaning.
But this is sooo tiring, maybe we'd better stop here.
The thing is that, were Hunter simply stating problems with the build, it wouldn't be a problem, but by consistently recommending that people abandon 3.6.9 entirely and play Toms' build, it's actually giving the appearance of him attempting to cripple the Multiplay development of SCP with his actions.
Yes, no-one is denying that 3.6.9 has problems, but look at it this way, if everyone abandons 3.6.9 to play Multiplay on Toms' then there will be no point to Game Warden running the Multiplay server, and it will end up being dropped.
To be blunt, Tom's build may work for now, but it's honestly going to need a hell of a lot of work to keep up with SCP in the future, up to this point, a concious effort has been made to maintain backward compatibility, but that is now going to stop. Now, people can either back SCP and the potential offered by it, or they can play IP games over their own little groups, doesn't bother me either way, but coming onto the board that contains the group developing SCP and saying 'Don't play SCP, play Tom's build!' is obviously not going to recieve a warm welcome to that comment.
-
I understand the emotion surrounding the subject, but to be fair,
[DW]-Hunter is not trying to discourage use or development of the current build. His intentions and arguments are in good faith and quite in line with everyone else's
His advocacy of Tom's build will have no affect on new development, taylor has expressed that quite clearly.
In fact, [DW]-Hunter doesn't care at all which build is used, as long as it works for his specific purposes. He happens to play a LOT of multi-player, and so speaks with some authority on the current situation.
He's only insisting on using a) the least trouble free version, b) for multi-player, c) at the moment, d) for him and the people he plays with (that's a pretty narrow argument I think)... When the new build comes out and it works better for him, he'll drop Tom's like a rock, and will necessarily quit advocating its use.
[DW]-Hunter is just pointing out what needs to be fixed in the new version. The flaws in the current version have already been agreed upon, and taylor has already said they will be fixed.
-
If DW Hunter wants to complain about bugs he can post them in Mantis and wait for us to fix them like everyone else has to. He's not a special case and roaring about how we've broken multi is not going to make us solve his problems any faster. In fact it has precisely the opposite effect.
-
If DW Hunter wants to complain about bugs he can post them in Mantis and wait for us to fix them like everyone else has to.
Sounds logical to me.
He's not a special case
Of course not!
and roaring about how we've broken multi is not going to make us solve his problems any faster. In fact it has precisely the opposite effect.
I don't know one way or the other, I have no experience in the matter. But I don't see how one person pointing out bugs, no matter how vociferously, and even in the wrong forum, should cause everyone else to wait longer for fixes, but what do I know. I agree that's the prerogative of whoever fixes it.
-
To be blunt, Tom's build may work for now, but it's honestly going to need a hell of a lot of work to keep up with SCP in the future, up to this point, a concious effort has been made to maintain backward compatibility, but that is now going to stop. Now, people can either back SCP and the potential offered by it, or they can play IP games over their own little groups, doesn't bother me either way, but coming onto the board that contains the group developing SCP and saying 'Don't play SCP, play Tom's build!' is obviously not going to recieve a warm welcome to that comment.
Well, I'm (at least) as pro-scp as anyone here (Toms build doesn't even work on Linux, that I now use).
It's just that in the past, while FSO bugs were still plenty, TB basically kept MP going.
And now it appears to have become a symbol of something rotten? That seems a bit off to me, no matter from which angle I try and look at the matter.
-
Tom's build is, in and of itself, a useful 'fill-in' for Freespace 2 Multiplay, it's allowed people to play whilst FSO was worked on, however, it is not, and was never intended to be, a complete replacement to be used in preference to FSO.
That is the problem, by keep pushing people towards Tom's build when people should be testing FSO, people are accidentally causing a stumbling block. 3.6.9. is not unplayable on Multiplay, or at least if it is then people should be posting problems in Mantis and talking to the SCP people, not simply switching builds and leaving someone else to deal with it, certainly enough people can log on and play to mean that if there is a problem, it's a localised one.
Tom's build is not a symbol of something rotten, but nor is the SCP not worth bothering with om Multiplay when you have Tom's build. You should be playing 3.6.9 for preference and ONLY using Tom's build if you are having problems with FSO that simply cannot be fixed over the boards or via Mantis.
-
I don't know one way or the other, I have no experience in the matter. But I don't see how one person pointing out bugs, no matter how vociferously, and even in the wrong forum, should cause everyone else to wait longer for fixes, but what do I know. I agree that's the prerogative of whoever fixes it.
Let me explain it simply. It's not that I decide to leave bugs in the engine cause of his attitude. I fix bugs on a priority scale based on how important they are and how hard they are to fix.
When someone's idea of a bug report is to shout "FSO Sucks! It crashes all the time!" They're not going to get whatever bug that was fixed. I've been given no information about what the bug was, nor how I can reproduce it, nor an errorlog pointing out what kind of error it could be. They've not run a debug build and given me an assertion that points directly at the offending code.
All they've done is come on here and insist I give up my free time to fix errors I don't get when I play online while insulting the hard work I've done stabilising the engine along with other members of the team. They've made the problem much harder to fix that it could be.
So instead I'll go back to Mantis and pick a different bug to fix.
-
That makes perfect sense, thanks for the explanation. 8)
-
Err... sorry for borrowing the topic for a second, but it seemed appropriate. Anyways, this "error" is caused by having the MediaVPs turned on? If so, is there another way for me to look up my stats without reverting to the main /data folder? I don't really care for statistics, but it'll be nice to see progress once in a while. :)
I do have one or two tables lying around in some of the extra VPs I put in the MVPs folder, if only to get the HTL Zeus working for example.
Hrmmm... though now I wonder, how would one play user-made mods online with stats tracking. I assume the answer is no? (I can see the implementation being troublesome anyway, so perhaps just the ability to play online with said mod is fine enough... forget about stats, if it works then that's okay, I guess? :))
-
Basically, I think the way the team want things to work is that the current CRC checking will be expanded to include campaigns and mods as they are released, so that games like Beyond the Red Line will be able to be played multiplayer as well as standard FS2 games. I'm assuming the stat tracking system would be divided up by Mod at that stage :)
-
I understand the emotion surrounding the subject, but to be fair,
[DW]-Hunter is not trying to discourage use or development of the current build. His intentions and arguments are in good faith and quite in line with everyone else's
His advocacy of Tom's build will have no affect on new development, taylor has expressed that quite clearly.
In fact, [DW]-Hunter doesn't care at all which build is used, as long as it works for his specific purposes. He happens to play a LOT of multi-player, and so speaks with some authority on the current situation.
He's only insisting on using a) the least trouble free version, b) for multi-player, c) at the moment, d) for him and the people he plays with (that's a pretty narrow argument I think)... When the new build comes out and it works better for him, he'll drop Tom's like a rock, and will necessarily quit advocating its use.
Exactly, although I do appologise on how my additude is twords bugs. But like huggy said, im not trying to drive people twords toms. I use both because some people cant play SCP or dont want to. I will say SCP is getting less and less buggy, and starting to become of my liking. But the fact you guys act like toms build is inferior and then try to justify that you have no problem with it, like saying you would rather blow your face off then run it. Is just not necessary. Tom put a lot of work into his build not to be insulted by this community, but he wanted multiplayer to be played rather then abandoned because of the huge number of bugs in the past SCP builds.
-
But you have to realise that part of the reason there were so many bugs is because the multi community weren't at all willing to help the SCP by reporting them. The majority of bugs I fixed for multiplayer in the last six months were mostly under 2 years old. In other words they were introduced after Tom's Build had come along and persisted because no one knew about them in order to fix them.
And in the end we're back to the point I made earlier if the multi community don't want to support the SCP I see no reason why we should go out of our way to support them. And that includes pointing out the flaws in Tom's build whenever you decide to come on these forums and try to claim that people should use it because it's better. It's not better. In fact it's rapidly becoming worse the longer it is neglected.
-
Did i say it was better? I think not. I said I didnt care whatever I use.
The majority of bugs I fixed for multiplayer in the last six months were mostly under 2 years old.
Nobody cares when they were there, 3.6.5 had major problems so thats why people started using Toms. However I did say before that the tables are turning and 3.6.9 is A LOT more stable then anything before it, and might I add, I like being able to alt tab now without people dropping! :D
-
Nobody cares about what you said, but the important people care about when they were there, because that determines the sequence of events.
Also, I was the one who said I'd have my face sandblasted off than use Tom's build. That still stands. If he wants to make something that's not "exploit easy" and inferior to what is out today (At one point or another, I used almost all versions of the SCP builds to play multiplayer, and the constant crashing is a bull**** myth perpetuated by people who don't know how to fiddle with the settings correctly and what not to do - sans the standalone of course) I'd be more than welcome to use it, but as it stands now, Tom's build is trash in comparison to the current SCP build.
It's not that I'm disrespectful. It's that it's the way things are.
-
Wow dude, your one ignorant little baby aren't you. Can't respect other people's property because you think your all that and you have never even tried toms so how the **** can you going to judge it. You can kiss my next appology for anything goodbye, this is complete bull****, i make a positive remark and you go ahead and bag on me.
-
For a start the pair of you can calm down. And name-calling is especially unnecessary.
Nobody cares when they were there, 3.6.5 had major problems so thats why people started using Toms. However I did say before that the tables are turning and 3.6.9 is A LOT more stable then anything before it, and might I add, I like being able to alt tab now without people dropping! :D
I never said that earlier builds were bug free. And I've already explained on the previous page that this is why people started using Tom's Build. But my point is that by doing so you've made it harder for us to fix the bugs that have accumulated in the code since Tom's Build came along.
The multi community took a very short sighted view when it came to creating Tom's Build. Had they bothered with the SCP instead of turning away complaining about bugs (several of which were and still are due to data errors rather than anything wrong with the code) the bugs in multiplayer would have been fixed long ago.
-
I am never anything but calm. Also, I did not call anyone any "names". Please don't attribute things to me which I've not done :)
Just wanted to see a bit who's being dealt with here. It is clear without a doubt now that any justifications or attempted explanations are wasted.
You know... unless you like repeating yourself continuously.
-
Well you could be a bit more tactful though. Which is what I meant by calming down. As for name calling I'm well aware you didn't do any of that :)
I'd just rather this didn't turn into yet another DW-Hunter Vs the SCP flamefest. :)
-
Blackdove doesnt relize that im not trying to tell everybody "use toms", so he flames me about it.
-
Well you could be a bit more tactful though. Which is what I meant by calming down. As for name calling I'm well aware you didn't do any of that :)
I'd just rather this didn't turn into yet another DW-Hunter Vs the SCP flamefest. :)
You have to admit though, there was no other intention for it to be so. The whole point of the discussion was to say "What have you morons done with the SCP, my build doesn't work with it. **** you, fix it." Any evidence to the contrary is just a vantage point for insults and aimless brashness.
-
And I've gone to great lengths to explain exactly why Tom's Build isn't going to get any special consideration from the SCP. The point is that now I've explained exactly why SCP changes will cause problems for Tom's Build any future outbursts can be dealt with much more harshly.
-
I said I didnt care whatever I use.....
....the tables are turning and 3.6.9 is A LOT more stable then anything before it, and might I add, I like being able to alt tab now without people dropping! :D
*sigh* I have explained myself over and over, I have said I simply dont care anymore about toms vs fsopen, blackdove is bringing past threads into this matter, and this whole topic on toms vs fsopen needs to be dropped.
-
any future outbursts can be dealt with much more harshly.
:yes:
-
Is someone going to lock this thread or does this contest have to keep continuing because I am getting really frustrated with blackdoves critiszim about my PAST behavior, and not even bothering to read what I have said before bagging on me.