Hard Light Productions Forums
FreeSpace Releases => Asset Releases => Topic started by: bobbtmann on July 29, 2013, 12:02:31 pm
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This interceptor is going to be my submission for the competition. It's a fast interceptor, able to enter and exit subspace very quickly. Right now it has a turret, though I max lock it and turn it into a firing point. The idea was that the ship would make passes at the target, with the turret continuously shooting even as the Iapetus is turning. I haven't got the turret to work yet, so I haven't tested it out.
Right now there is a diffuse map, a diffuse-turned-shine map, and a normal map.
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc433/bobbtmann/Various/ContestFighter05_zps20457ab8.png)
Thoughts?
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i like the general shape, maybe the forward pointing arms could be a bit shorter though
not so sure about the color scheme, all the greyish with dirt makes it look a bit dull somehow
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Good idea, well executed :yes: IMHO, you nailed the interceptor concept: light spacecraft with *big* engine exhausts :)
Have to ask it though: what's the idea behind the canopy?
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I don't really see the fighter in this to be frank... To me it looks more like it could be some sort of space racer or arena craft, more meant to be used as a sports craft than as a warship.
Post that, it's a really interesting and refreshing design. :)
What's with the Mario star in the cabin though? :p
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Have to ask it though: what's the idea behind the canopy?
Just mixing it up. Not many ships have a paint job.
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To me it looks more like it could be some sort of space racer
that's not the worst impression to get from an interceptor if you ask me, FAAAAST is the one impression you should get when looking at one
and like FreeSpaceFreak, i think he nailed that
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I don't really see the fighter in this to be frank... To me it looks more like it could be some sort of space racer or arena craft, more meant to be used as a sports craft than as a warship.
I thought this too, I didn't really want to say it, but since you have, it makes me think of something you would see in WipEout, especially if you cut out that bottom ring, it really does.
It's nice, but if someone just showed me a shot and didn't tell me what it's meant to be, I would seriously think some sort of WipEout-type racing machine.
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The "dullness" probably comes from the lack of shine. With the shine maps this will be awesome. Great work Bobb! This competition will be fierce!! :yes:
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Hmmn, the primary wings remind me a bit of the Myrmidon (minus the loop).
Different but pretty cool
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Definitely unusual; the curvy shapes could signal Vasudan design influence. Besides the weird star on the cockpit, I'd give this one my approval.
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Nice work! That canopy and the turrets inspire me a UAV, rather than a manned fighter.
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Its current incarnation feels decidedly un-Freespacy to me.
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Tis ok, half the ships in FS are unfreespacy.
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Its current incarnation feels decidedly un-Freespacy to me.
to me without the loops and with a brown paint scheme it would be a very vasudan design
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yes, my bad I thought it was a Star Wars ship, and only I read those comments I realised this was a "GTF". It still is a really cool ship.
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Ditch the loops and it'd fit fairly well in Battletech, too. (Tho it'd probably have to be Clan to fit all those missiles and the heavy cannon.)
I like it. It is, as many have said, "un-Freespacey", but that's not necessarily a bad thing. It looks very sleek and powerful. :)
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It looks to me like a Myrmidon with loops added to it. I suspect the star on the cockpit is what causes it to seem "un-Freespacey".
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It looks to me like a Myrmidon with loops added to it. I suspect the star on the cockpit is what causes it to seem "un-Freespacey".
I suspect you're right.
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I have mixed feelings about this.
I love the concept behind it, I love the shape design, but I find the texture design very boring.
Also, like others have mentioned, it doesn't look Freespacey, due to the texture job and the design itself, IMO. However, I don't think it would warrant a "back to the drawing board" situation, but could be fixed with some adjustments:
- I think that the loops could be easily explained as being part of that "get in and out of subspace quickly" concept... they just need to have some techy stuff to sell on that idea visually
- The ship does seem to have some Vasudan influence, so reinforcing that, like the Myrmidon does (with some scaling and whatnot), would help on selling the Freespace look
- The texture: less sleek, and more "heavy" in terms of panel thickness (aka more Freespacey). A bit of variation on the greys: have areas with different shades of grey (omg...) will go a long way to keep it visually rich.
- Keep the star... it adds character.
I'm by no means telling you what to do, rather sharing my thoughts. Hope that helps :)
Oh and nitpick of the day: the slight S curvature on the tip of the forward wings breaks the visual flow... :P
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- I think that the loops could be easily explained as being part of that "get in and out of subspace quickly" concept... they just need to have some techy stuff to sell on that idea visually
I for one already assumed that was the case with the loops.
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Those were some good comments. I'm not entirely sure that "FreeSpace-y" means it has to be much heavier looking. I was going through the wiki, and it's the new models that are heavier looking, not necessarily the originals. True, the original Freespace models had more paneling (which I'm working on), but it wasn't until the HTL models came along that the ships looked like they had meter thick armour plating. I'm not a fan of the tortoise/michelin-man look, so I'm going to keep my armour toned down a bit. There'll probably some rivets and things I guess, to make it look heavier.
I agree with the texture being a bit dull. My background is in steel sculpture, and we don't often paint our sculptures because it interferes with the form. So here's an update, with a bit more pop to the texture:
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc433/bobbtmann/Various/ContestFighter06_zpsdcedd199.png)
The original p3d link at the beginning of of the thread is still active.
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Here's with a darker cockpit;
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc433/bobbtmann/Various/ContestFighter07_zps49ab7d19.png)
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I like it, but you need to do something meaningful with the loops and the projections at the front rather than just having them there for blank structure.
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Looks cool. Overall concept is pretty unique and works very well as post-Capella GTVA fighter. I have only one question - Glass. For what? Isn't it better to place standard transparent glass with a visible cockpit behind?
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There is no "law" that says all Freespace ships must have a transparent glass cabin. I, for one, say: keep it like this, it's refreshing.
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There is no "law" that says all Freespace ships must have a transparent glass cabin. I, for one, say: keep it like this, it's refreshing.
I have to agree with this
as for the cockpit texture I like the darker one better, still not sold on the loops though but hey it still looks good
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The side pods and wings match the usual freespace style. I'd say this ship is freespace enough. Even with the loops. That's a very nice, refreshing design and efficient execution. I learned a thing or two on baking normals watching this :yes:
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Suicide Kings FTW :D
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My background is in steel sculpture, and we don't often paint our sculptures because it interferes with the form.
Dude, that's great! You already have good insights due to your background!
The thing is, you have to make the texture subordinate to the form, an enhancement of the form, if you will. Look at the Apollo, Athena, Herc2, Ares. Their textures are designed to make the original form read better.
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I really like to one. It looks like a mix of a Myrmidon, Ulysses, and Perseus to me. I've always hated the transparent glass cockpits in the HTLs, so I actually like this opaque cockpit. The darker one is nice. The old Volition FS1 wallpaper of the Ulysses was how I imagined the cockpits are supposed to be for that particular fighter. I think you did a great job improving on that look.
I don't particularly care for the pattern, however. It doesn't add anything. The subdued look on the dark cockpit looks quite nice but feels unnecessary.
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the new color scheme is much better, but the star on the cockpit still looks a bit silly, to be honest when i first saw the model i thought it was just a WIP placeholder image
nothing wrong with opaque cockpits though
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The thing is, you have to make the texture subordinate to the form, an enhancement of the form, if you will. Look at the Apollo, Athena, Herc2, Ares. Their textures are designed to make the original form read better.
I would have to disagree with you there. I think you're confusing "adding complexity" with "complementing the form". Those examples you gave all have normal maps, which increases the apparent complexity. Increased detail and complexity does not necessarily enhance the form. Think camouflage; lots of detail serving to break up the form.
On a smooth piece of mesh, the eye slides easily along its length. In the art world this is often described as visual energy or visual flow. If you have a texture line perpendicular across its length, your eye stops at it, before moving on. This breaks up the flow of the form. The greater the strength of the line (more colour, contrast, etc) the more visual stopping power it has.
Normal maps are particularly good at breaking up the form of the model. Not only do they appear to be physical features attached to the hull, they have highlights and shadows that heighten the contrast between the various texture elements. Add to that, the nvidia DDS plugin on Photoshop tend to make very pronounced details. In the end, normal maps enhance the detail of the ship, but not it's form.
So in the end, it comes down to a tug of war between the surface detail and the form. Too little detail and the form is visible but it might look plain (such as this fighter). Too much detail, and you won't be able to see the sweet curves of the ship (compare the before and after image of the Perseus on the wiki). Beyond that, and the ship will look like the Michelin man.
So anyways, those are my thoughts on that topic. For this ship, the paint job was intended to break up the form a bit and trap the viewer's eye. Same with the S-curve on the front wings. The colours (accidently) work well with the Suicide Kings' colour scheme, as well. I migth get rid of the star, though it has to be replaced with something. An Ace? Some eyes? A skull?
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Usually my instinct on that debate is to go for a "fractal" kind of scaling. To that I mean, some huge plain faces where you do need the flow you are talking about, but at near the end, or at the margins, complexity emerges a bit and then at some points it goes into full excess. Homeworld does this kind of thing pretty much in all of their ships and the result is staggering.
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on the picture with the red star it looks as if something curvy was painted right beneath the star, that would fit
one suggestion though: the canopy really should be dark; dark gold or even black, it looks really weird if it's white
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I quite like the white cockpit has sorta a cyberpunk feel. Though instead of a star, have you considered a skull motif?
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I quite like the white cockpit has sorta a cyberpunk feel. Though instead of a star, have you considered a skull motif?
It puzzles me why people don't like the star, I don't have a problem with it.
Anyway, if he keeps the star, you can shoot it, and live up to your name. :)
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I don't begrudge the star to be honest, its just the shape and colour of the cockpit lends itself to death's head rictus.
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Originally it was supposed to be a skull. My concept drawings all had skulls on them. I was worried that it might look too much like James Raynor's helmet.
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Few suggestions, which I don't expect you to follow as the modelling seems finished.
1. I would personally add like some small pylons/nacelles to the rings. Like if the top ring had say two smaller ones at about 45' degree elevation from the fuselage and the lower one had, say one smaller one at the bottom. I think it would give the rings a bit more, form or function. Like one could imagine those nacelles as being sensor module or thruster module, that sort of thing. Large enough to break up the form a bit but not so large as to overpower the ring visually.
2. For the upper ring, I would create a structural difference at the point where it meets the lower ring. Like a raised surface at the base for example. Or perhaps conversely, a little indented area with a bit of the underworking showing. Basically just a detail to sort of suggest how it might be constructed in a factory.
3. For the forward prongs, I would cut into the form a little at the very tip of the inside edge just to break up the shape a bit and make it a bit more interesting. Not sure how to best describe it? Bevel? Like bevel the edge? And maybe with the outside tip, cut the corner tip off as well. Not so much as to change the shape, just enough to distinguish the end of the prongs as being the end of the prongs.
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Originally it was supposed to be a skull. My concept drawings all had skulls on them. I was worried that it might look too much like James Raynor's helmet.
I was thinking more Chiggy von Richthofen myself :D
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I don't begrudge the star to be honest, its just the shape and colour of the cockpit lends itself to death's head rictus.
Ah, I see what you mean now, I didn't think a skull would look good, but if it was moulded around the shape of the cockpit, then I can see potential there if it was done right.
Shark jaws perhaps could be another option.
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I would have to disagree with you there. I think you're confusing "adding complexity" with "complementing the form". Those examples you gave all have normal maps, which increases the apparent complexity. Increased detail and complexity does not necessarily enhance the form. Think camouflage; lots of detail serving to break up the form.
On a smooth piece of mesh, the eye slides easily along its length. In the art world this is often described as visual energy or visual flow. If you have a texture line perpendicular across its length, your eye stops at it, before moving on. This breaks up the flow of the form. The greater the strength of the line (more colour, contrast, etc) the more visual stopping power it has.
I think I was misunderstood on what I said :)
I was actually looking at the non-htl versions of those ships, and I wasn't talking about texture complexity. I was talking about the "big shapes".
So you understand where I'm coming from, my background is on Design (Multimedia and Industrial) and art (drawing+painting), so I'm all too familiar with what you call "visual energy\flow".
What I was talking about when I used the word "reinforcing" was, like I said the big shapes. Look at the Herc2, for instance (being the simplest of the ships I mentioned): the center piece is white, the side pods are grey. The color is placed in such a way that it "reinforces" the Hercs shape. Makes it easier to read its form, than if it was all grey, for example.
If you want to look at the details, the Herc2s panel lines flow along the shape too, reinforcing the visual flow.
That's what I meant. the small details and\or normal maps have nothing to do with it :)
So anyways, those are my thoughts on that topic. For this ship, the paint job was intended to break up the form a bit and trap the viewer's eye. Same with the S-curve on the front wings.
I get what you are trying to do, and now I understand it was a very conscious choice. That's cool! ;)
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The form of the cockpit and the section behind it makes me think of the nuBSG cylon raider, or an Alien head. I think I'd vote for a Ulysses-style transparent canopy, despite the visual disruption. Not having a human inside just seems a little too drone-like and impersonal for FS IMO. Love the shape!
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Few suggestions, which I don't expect you to follow as the modelling seems finished.
1. I would personally add like some small pylons/nacelles to the rings. Like if the top ring had say two smaller ones at about 45' degree elevation from the fuselage and the lower one had, say one smaller one at the bottom. I think it would give the rings a bit more, form or function. Like one could imagine those nacelles as being sensor module or thruster module, that sort of thing. Large enough to break up the form a bit but not so large as to overpower the ring visually.
2. For the upper ring, I would create a structural difference at the point where it meets the lower ring. Like a raised surface at the base for example. Or perhaps conversely, a little indented area with a bit of the underworking showing. Basically just a detail to sort of suggest how it might be constructed in a factory.
3. For the forward prongs, I would cut into the form a little at the very tip of the inside edge just to break up the shape a bit and make it a bit more interesting. Not sure how to best describe it? Bevel? Like bevel the edge? And maybe with the outside tip, cut the corner tip off as well. Not so much as to change the shape, just enough to distinguish the end of the prongs as being the end of the prongs.
I'm just quoting this because this thread is getting kind of clamorous and I think these suggestions would address the main problem with the model.
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Star is changed. I'll probably add some things to the hoops. Not nacelles, but something.
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The hoops are very Starslip.
I don't know why, but I keep expecting the tips of the prongs to have headlights.
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I liked the original more.
Had a nice UAV feel to it, even if it's "not freespacey" (which is fine! then again I'm kind of biased.)
Now it's kind of...confused as to what it's trying to be.
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I think it's looking better and better!
The suicide king texture could be placed in a better position.... it looks as if someone glued a giant card into the ship, instead of being an artsy paint job by the proud pilots themselves. (I'm also pretty sure the rust / dirt textures are still wip)
If you zoom out the ship to like 10, 15 % of the preview screen, you'll basically see how it will appear in FSO most of the times, and it's sleek as hell, with a nice specular profile against the black background! Can't wait to be able to fly it, it looks awesome. Great job!
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Yeah, I liked the star more too. Skull is a bit too cliche.
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Few suggestions, which I don't expect you to follow as the modelling seems finished.
1. I would personally add like some small pylons/nacelles to the rings. Like if the top ring had say two smaller ones at about 45' degree elevation from the fuselage and the lower one had, say one smaller one at the bottom. I think it would give the rings a bit more, form or function. Like one could imagine those nacelles as being sensor module or thruster module, that sort of thing. Large enough to break up the form a bit but not so large as to overpower the ring visually.
2. For the upper ring, I would create a structural difference at the point where it meets the lower ring. Like a raised surface at the base for example. Or perhaps conversely, a little indented area with a bit of the underworking showing. Basically just a detail to sort of suggest how it might be constructed in a factory.
3. For the forward prongs, I would cut into the form a little at the very tip of the inside edge just to break up the shape a bit and make it a bit more interesting. Not sure how to best describe it? Bevel? Like bevel the edge? And maybe with the outside tip, cut the corner tip off as well. Not so much as to change the shape, just enough to distinguish the end of the prongs as being the end of the prongs.
Here's some visualizations of what I was talking about.
I tried a nacelle type thing on the lower ring and it didn't look good so. Left it out
(http://knossos.firenebula.com/temporary/bobbtmann_suggest.jpg)
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I'm thinking you could make the rings look like shield projectors or something by putting strips of lit cells along them. I for one like the opaque cockpit, although I think it'd look better if it was just left blank rather than having a decal; that makes it look a bit tacky.
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so, after working a bit on a ship that uses team colors i remembered this one of yours
it's almost all gray, that means adding a team color feature to it should be a very quick job
i offer to do it for you, if you do not want to create a misc-map yourself, sending me the (uncompressed) diffuse map would suffice
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Oops. I completely forgot about time zones. No complaints from me about the extension, Black Wolf. :)
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc433/bobbtmann/Various/ContestFighter08_zps483f0ef3.png)
The file was uploaded to freespacemods.net
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Yours was one of the models I was thinking about when I posted it - it seemed particularly unfair to exclude what appeared to be a completely finished model from well within the time period because you missed the deadline by what I assumed was only going to be a few hours. :)
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I'm no modeler or anything, but have you thought about detailing the rings like the ST:ENT Vulcan ships? Personally that would help visually with the In'N'Out with subspace. I hope you understand what I'm trying to say.
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Yeah, I sort of gave up on the subspace thing. I'm sure it could work, but I was pretty busy, so I decided to scratch it. The turret is now the unique thing about it.
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Ouch, sorry to hear that. Hope everything else went smoothly, I don't have a clue about how hard it is, but it's good work, keep it up!
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The file was uploaded to freespacemods.net
I don't see it yet.
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I have approved it just now (http://www.freespacemods.net/download.php?view.909). Enjoy :)
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as threatened, here are textures that are adopted for the use of team colors:
http://www.mediafire.com/download/p40z8gklvykzpng/iaptus-teamcolor.rar
(http://imageshack.us/scaled/large/850/j6sx.png)
(http://imageshack.us/scaled/large/842/5l32.png)
(http://imageshack.us/scaled/large/13/l9fm.png)
love it or leave it, as they say
bobbtmann, you CAN use this as addidional feature of your model in the competition if you like, not that i expect you to, i just wanted to make that clear
btw the model is fantastic, especially the normal map, impressive work man
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love it or leave it, as they say
I love them! :yes:
You did a great job.