Author Topic: RELASE: Trimurti  (Read 5378 times)

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Eschaton: Actually i was not sure, if i had to press ALT+J or to fly back to the Hangar of the Lucy to end this mission... i tried to land and it did not work.
False Hope: The Aten has a visible name.
The End: I can see and target the ROFL and LOL wings... even i do not understand their purpose in general (or are they a trigger for something?)
Thank you, all were unintended and should be fixed now.
False Hope: It is intended, that i am able to destroy the Karnak Core from the outside? Or is this one of the mentioned bugs for Nightlies? I have to repeat this mission a couple of times, because my AI shivans had the same idea.
This isn't that aforementioned bug, you'd get a hard crash if it were. This is an unfortunate side-effect of the Apoplexies massive AoE, and the weakness of the reactor core, I should probably bump its health up to withstand accidental damage. Ideally of course I would have area damage not damage things if there are intervening objects, but that would require ray-tracing and a complete rewrite of how shockwave damage is dealt and that's rather unreasonable to ask.

Spoiler:
And it is nice, that you are able to change the history for the Shivans. Even the last mission was a little strange in my opinion, because it miss sound effects and have a very long fade out, where i have to fight blind for nearly half a minute, before the mission ends in a cutscene that also seem to imply some sort of sequel...

Or is this a different ending, because i was able to find all Spoons? Even i miss a hint even in this thread, that there is this archivement system and i miss some hints in-game, too.
Spoiler:
I'm quite surprised and impressed you managed to get all of them on presumably your first playthrough! I had originally planned for them to do something special, but as is they do nothing other than bragging rights. You experienced the ending as intended.

 
This is a fascinating campaign. Not many people can tell stories just by moving icons around on the briefing screen. Even better, it's funny how often I misinterpret them, and end up doing something completely different in the mission.

I like the difficulty of the missions. It requires a bit of attention to detail, acclimation to a completely new weapon set, and good use of tactics like targeting engine & weapon subsystems on capital ships. Given the FS1 era of technology, hitting the weapon subsystem on a ship absolutely cripples their ability to return fire. A few of those Shivan weapons do fantastic damage to subsystems.

The regeneration mechanic is unique too, it's nice being able to press 1 during downtime and re-armor myself.

One thing confuses me though: The unintelligible Shivan code. Why? It seems like it should be exactly the other way around, with Shivan stuff being easily readable, but human transmissions being completely alien gibberish. I have not finished the campaign, so...

Spoiler:
...is the player supposed to be a human who defected to the Shivans, and doesn't understand their language?
"Obviously the meson bomb is a form of cat-toast-device, with the buttered toast inverted, so that the cat and toast both fly in the direction of gravity much faster than expected. By introducing artificial gravity, a pair of cat-toast perpetual motion accelerator units can be made to collide with one another, and they produce an unimaginably devastating explosion. Both cats are named 'Meson'."

 - Wikileaks 2383

 
One thing confuses me though: The unintelligible Shivan code. Why? It seems like it should be exactly the other way around, with Shivan stuff being easily readable, but human transmissions being completely alien gibberish. I have not finished the campaign, so...

Spoiler:
...is the player supposed to be a human who defected to the Shivans, and doesn't understand their language?
Spoiler:
So there are several ways of going about this problem. The approach you assume is the meta-level one. It seems that the player is a Shivan because none of the other Shivans treat you specially or consider you abnormal. But since the 'reality' of the situation is that 'Shivan speech' is unintelligible to humans like you or me it creates a gap between player-knowledge (the person at the controls who doesn't know Shivan) and character-knowledge (the Shivan in the cockpit who does. So you can simply translate the Shivan into English (and English into gibberish) at the meta-level; we know 'that's not how it really is' but that I'm doing it purely for the sake of player understanding.

This is a common approach when it comes to Shivans (in what few mods actually face this problem), but actually one of the main reasons I created this mod in the first place is that I don't really like this approach! If you do translate it, what exactly does it sound like? Just regular English?! I don't know about you, but I find the idea of Shivans speaking normal English rather comical and immersion breaking. Every approach to Shivans differ, and everyone is entitled to their idea of how they function. The way I like to depict them functioning is very very different from our own. In virtually every way I can get away with. Whatever form of communication they use I believe would be massively downgraded and simplified when put into English, quite possibly unavoidably so for any target language we could understand. Shivan's cognitive capacities and format are probably extremely different, if not outright incompatible. And I still feel this way even about their current communication in the mod! That it is a huge oversimplification and an artistic interpretation of whatever form of communication they use.

Having them speak in normal English removes some of the barriers of understanding and mystery between us and them, and one of my major goals was to keep as much as possible still alien to us, and only allow small rays of understanding to peak through, just enough to keep them interesting and provocative. That's why Shivans are interesting in the first place.

Keeping Shivan speech 'as it truly is' (although as I've mentioned as I think their current implementation errs too much on the side of understandable by us) not only maintained that sense of strangeness, but also providing the interesting challenge of making everything still understandable enough for a player to play the missions without being utterly lost. Both the directives and recommendations are painful but regrettably necessary concessions I had to make, I knew I couldn't count on everyone being willing or able to follow such obtuse instruction. I'm slightly disappointed that some briefings weren't clear enough for you, and I'd be curious which ones they were and what were mistaken impressions you got from them.

 

Offline Novachen

  • 28
  • The one and only Capella supernova.
Actually i liked this approach. Because, if the shivans would talk in clear english (or any other human language you could translate)... you had to mention their motivation for all of this in the first place... which would actually demystify them completely. And would cause discussions about it, for sure.

So you still do not know why you are doing this, what keeps the Shivans as there is, a species with higher goals we do not understand (maybe we cant even with ETAK).

And i liked the fact, that the briefings are visual only and i was surprised how understandable they were only with the moving icons.

I actually would not feel as a shivan, if there were human speaking shivans. Maybe Vasudan speaking Vasudans are missing here, but that is the only thing, i can think of ^^
Female FS2 pilot since 1999.

German Translations created by me:
Between the Ashes: Slaves of Chaos, FreeSpace Port, The Destiny of Peace, Silent Threat: Reborn, Awakenings (in development)

Upgrades and Bugfixes:
FSPort Mission Upgrade, Luyten Civil War, Into the Halls of Valhalla, VeniceMirror

Other projects:
Out of the Shadow: Nova Safiya Edition (Remake of the Out of the Shadow campaign, in development)



If you want to know, what my nickname means, -chen is a german diminutive term, so you can translate Novachen as something like Little Nova or Novalet.
Even my original meaning of this name is more like "Sweet pretty deadly (Super)Nova" ;).

  
Spoiler:
And it is nice, that you are able to change the history for the Shivans. Even the last mission was a little strange in my opinion, because it miss sound effects and have a very long fade out, where i have to fight blind for nearly half a minute, before the mission ends in a cutscene that also seem to imply some sort of sequel...

Or is this a different ending, because i was able to find all Spoons? Even i miss a hint even in this thread, that there is this archivement system and i miss some hints in-game, too.
[/quote]

Spoiler:
I'm of the opinion the end ties into BP:AOA because the Terran pilot said the Bastion failed to stop the Lucy. The Vasudans became extinct (another BP:AOA story point). Also, we saw the Sanctuary leave Sol in the cutscene just as Lucy was glassing Earth
[/quote]
« Last Edit: June 14, 2018, 03:33:02 pm by CapellaGoBoom »

 

Offline Novachen

  • 28
  • The one and only Capella supernova.
Spoiler:
I'm of the opinion the end ties into BP:AOA because the Terran pilot said the Bastion failed to stop the Lucy. The Vasudans became extinct (another BP:AOA story point). Also, we saw the Sanctuary leave Sol in the cutscene just as Lucy was glassing Earth

Spoiler:
Ah okay, i actually never played BP and i thought BP take place in FS2's timeline. Have to admit that the situation of this ending remembered me more of the first campaign of the dump of Project: Outreach by Droid303 six years ago. Because it was dumped it also looked like, that this campaign maybe picked up some of its scenario again, only in a shivan pov.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2018, 06:25:55 pm by Novachen »
Female FS2 pilot since 1999.

German Translations created by me:
Between the Ashes: Slaves of Chaos, FreeSpace Port, The Destiny of Peace, Silent Threat: Reborn, Awakenings (in development)

Upgrades and Bugfixes:
FSPort Mission Upgrade, Luyten Civil War, Into the Halls of Valhalla, VeniceMirror

Other projects:
Out of the Shadow: Nova Safiya Edition (Remake of the Out of the Shadow campaign, in development)



If you want to know, what my nickname means, -chen is a german diminutive term, so you can translate Novachen as something like Little Nova or Novalet.
Even my original meaning of this name is more like "Sweet pretty deadly (Super)Nova" ;).

 
Spoiler:
Ah okay, i actually never played BP and i thought BP take place in FS2's timeline. Have to admit that the situation of this ending remembered me more of the first campaign of the dump of Project: Outreach by Droid303 six years ago. Because it was dumped it also looked like, that this campaign maybe picked up some of its scenario again, only in a shivan pov.
Spoiler:
BP does take place in FS2's timeline, specifically 20 some years after the fact. BP: AoA has the player accidentally travel to an alternate timeline where the Great War had been lost those 50 years prior, and then later return to the normal timeline.

 

Offline Novachen

  • 28
  • The one and only Capella supernova.
Spoiler:
Ah okay, i actually never played BP and i thought BP take place in FS2's timeline. Have to admit that the situation of this ending remembered me more of the first campaign of the dump of Project: Outreach by Droid303 six years ago. Because it was dumped it also looked like, that this campaign maybe picked up some of its scenario again, only in a shivan pov.
Spoiler:
BP does take place in FS2's timeline, specifically 20 some years after the fact. BP: AoA has the player accidentally travel to an alternate timeline where the Great War had been lost those 50 years prior, and then later return to the normal timeline.

Spoiler:
Never know that. Even this fact actually reduced my interested in BP.

But well, another question appeared as i introduced this campaign in another forum. As someone suggest (only in a joke of course), that i should translate the complete campaign into german, including the shivan messages of course.
Because that would a very nice twist... are the Shivan messages english ones, that were decoded into a ternary system or are the numbers totally random?  :D
« Last Edit: June 14, 2018, 11:18:00 pm by Novachen »
Female FS2 pilot since 1999.

German Translations created by me:
Between the Ashes: Slaves of Chaos, FreeSpace Port, The Destiny of Peace, Silent Threat: Reborn, Awakenings (in development)

Upgrades and Bugfixes:
FSPort Mission Upgrade, Luyten Civil War, Into the Halls of Valhalla, VeniceMirror

Other projects:
Out of the Shadow: Nova Safiya Edition (Remake of the Out of the Shadow campaign, in development)



If you want to know, what my nickname means, -chen is a german diminutive term, so you can translate Novachen as something like Little Nova or Novalet.
Even my original meaning of this name is more like "Sweet pretty deadly (Super)Nova" ;).

 
But well, another question appeared as i introduced this campaign in another forum. As someone suggest (only in a joke of course), that i should translate the complete campaign into german, including the shivan messages of course.
Because that would a very nice twist... are the Shivan messages english ones, that were decoded into a ternary system or are the numbers totally random?  :D
I'd prefer not to spoil too much of how it works, but suffice it to say that a legitimate english to german translation would change the content of the messages (to something equally opaque).