[wistler]

Wouldn't the modern military protocols become obsolete in a few hundred years?

And be replaced with what? your talking about a violent traitor who is in possession of military weapons. I don't see a alternative to killing him.

Also, what's with the NTF being a bunch of crazy rebels? There are three legitimate governments behind the NTF, with Bosch acting as main leader. Sirius, Regulus and Polaris once were important GTVA systems.[/mobius]

Err... no he doesn't.

"The Neo-Terran Front (or NTF) was a rebel group led by Admiral Aken Bosch, former commander of the GTVA 6th fleet. They came to prominence after a violent military coup in the Polaris system, eighteen months prior to the events of FreeSpace 2. Within weeks, a domino effect saw the governments of Regulus and Sirius fall to the NTF. "

Ha-hem, what about imprisoning him? The contrary of "sentencing to death" surely isn't "let the guilty stay where he is"...

Imprison him? That's in reply to a statment I made about the dangers of trying to get a violent person flying a ship onto the hanger of a Military Destroyer right

[Mobius]

"The Neo-Terran Front (or NTF) was a rebel group led by Admiral Aken Bosch, former commander of the GTVA 6th fleet. They came to prominence after a violent military coup in the Polaris system, eighteen months prior to the events of FreeSpace 2. Within weeks, a domino effect saw the governments of Regulus and Sirius fall to the NTF. "

The Wiki is bogus on that part:

[quote="Neo-Terran Front" Intelligence Entry]Eighteen months ago, Admiral Aken Bosch, commander of the GTVA 6th Fleet, launched a violent military coup in the Polaris system. Within weeks, a regional domino effect also toppled the governments of Regulus and Sirius, all swearing allegiance to Bosch and his Neo-Terran Front.
[/quote]

Imprison him? That's in reply to a statment I made about the dangers of trying to get a violent person flying a ship onto the hanger of a Military Destroyer right

Read one of my first posts on this thread.

I said that, if the traitor may interfere with important operations, he should be killed during the mission. If he gets back to base like a retard, there's no need to kill him so quickly... and for several reasons.

[Snail]

I see where Mobius is coming from, but I don't agree with him. In Star Trek they'd probably beam the pilot aboard the Enterprise and set phasers to stun, then have a nice friendly chat about what they did. But keep in mind that humanity may not necessarily advance as you think it might - The war with the Vasudans is an important example.

If the Terrans have evolved into a benevolent and more enlightened race, why would they go to war with a species which we have seen to be very similar to ourselves? Clearly, the Terran race has not advanced so radically as you've assumed.

[Mobius]

I think I understand the point of your "I see where Mobius is coming from".

Also, speaking of the Terran-Vasudan War, the Vasudans essentially started it due to the Terrans' approach on the Conversation. Obviously, agter 14 years of conflict who started the war doesn't really make the difference - both sides had to employ cruel tactics to survive.

[Snail]

Also, speaking of the Terran-Vasudan War, the Vasudans essentially started it due to the Terrans' approach on the Conversation.

Wow man. You manage to be a conservative fundamentalist even towards fictional events.

[Mobius]

Isn't that the truth?

By the way, I like the Vasudans.

[Snail]

Isn't that the truth?

By the way, I like the Vasudans.

It's clear there were other reasons for the T-V war, not just the Conversation.

[Mobius]

Two factions fighting to dominate that region of space. Well, that's clear.

What I don't understand is how fighting the Vasudans would be a proof of the Terrans' pseudo-evolution in terms of civil behavior.

[Snail]

Two factions fighting to dominate that region of space. Well, that's clear.

That's another reason. Probably a lot more too.

What I don't understand is how fighting the Vasudans would be a proof of the Terrans' pseudo-evolution in terms of civil behavior.

If, like you say, the Terrans have advanced socially to such an extent that capital punishment is deemed primitive, then surely a war with the Vasudans wouldn't happen. The Terrans by the stage of 2335 are quite clearly very 'human' - They are barbaric and violent in the many eyes of the beholder.

Though Terran society would undoubtedly have advanced over the 32 years by 2367, the fact that a violent coup such as the NTF would still show that Terran society as a whole isn't too different from our own.

[Mobius]

It's worth noting the difference between FreeSpace's mankind as we know it and the potential behavior of mankind a few hundred years from now.

I'm not trying to contradict canon, I started a discussion about how (giving that today death sentences are being progressively phased out) mankind would be in the future.

[Snail]

It's worth noting the difference between FreeSpace's mankind as we know it and the potential behavior of mankind a few hundred years from now.

FreeSpace's mankind is not an ideal image of the future. They're militaristic and violent.

I'm not trying to contradict canon, I started a discussion about how (giving that today death sentences are being progressively phased out) mankind would be in the future.

Well, if you look at it, even in the modern day society is at many different levels of barbarism.

The countries of the Western World are all supposedly the forefront of civility, and they're all denouncing China for death penalties and heavy-handedness and all that jazz, while in Africa people are dying from poverty. There's a lot of diversity in human culture, in a few hundred years time I can't see that changing too much. Sure it'll change, probably for the better, but I doubt it'll change that much.

[SpardaSon21]

Also, death sentences are useful.  If there's some serial killer out there, killing him is the easiest and most simple way to make sure he doesn't kill anyone ever again.  I would rather see a serial killer executed than in a comfy prison cell where everything is provided for him by the taxpayers.

[General Battuta]

Also, death sentences are useful.  If there's some serial killer out there, killing him is the easiest and most simple way to make sure he doesn't kill anyone ever again.  I would rather see a serial killer executed than in a comfy prison cell where everything is provided for him by the taxpayers.

Keep the politics to GenDisc, Sparda.

(though it's fair to note that death row inmates consume a ton of money and tend to remain on death row for a very long time, meaning they actually take more from the taxpayers.)

(and believe me, solitary ain't comfortable)

[SpardaSon21]

I wasn't aware I was making a political statement.  I was trying to say that dead murderers can't kill anyone anymore.

[General Battuta]

The last sentence is controversial and the kind of thing best left to GD debates.

This is a thread regarding the use of military court-martials and executions in Freespace. If you want to do a campaign about a serial killer, that'd be interesting.

[Charismatic]

Its the same as how we treat criminals today. They die. Its just a modern day society + advanced weaps\tech.

[SpardaSon21]

Sorry, perhaps I should have phrased it differently.  I think that in the Freespace era the death sentence will still be used, simply because death is extremely final.

[Mobius]

FreeSpace's mankind is not an ideal image of the future. They're militaristic and violent.

That's one damn good assumption, but I don't see that many episodes suggesting that Terrans are so militaristic and violent in FS. It may be true, I'm not excluding it, but we lack a decisive proof.

Well, if you look at it, even in the modern day society is at many different levels of barbarism.

The countries of the Western World are all supposedly the forefront of civility, and they're all denouncing China for death penalties and heavy-handedness and all that jazz, while in Africa people are dying from poverty. There's a lot of diversity in human culture, in a few hundred years time I can't see that changing too much. Sure it'll change, probably for the better, but I doubt it'll change that much.

Things are changing. We're far from perfect, but things are finally changing.

As I said elsewhere, only countries with a certain reputation keep relying on death penalties. Namely: China, Iran, and many others. In other words, it's not a good thing.

Also, death sentences are useful.  If there's some serial killer out there, killing him is the easiest and most simple way to make sure he doesn't kill anyone ever again.  I would rather see a serial killer executed than in a comfy prison cell where everything is provided for him by the taxpayers.

I'm pretty sure it's quite the opposite.

Instead of killing a person who might even be innocent, you can conduct psychological research on him/her (it's useful) and let that person work for the country under surveillance (nearly useful). What's wrong with it?

That's essentially what the GTA and the GTVA should do. If they capture a traitor, they should first study it and determine whatever reasons led that person to become a traitor. In FreeSpace, without a few exceptions, being a traitor means going against your species. I think both the Terrans and the Vasudans had damn good reasons to analyze such episodes to prevent them from happening. Hopefully, potential traitors will not be allowed to go to the frontlines (psychological reasons? Political ones? It doesn't matter...).

Its the same as how we treat criminals today. They die. Its just a modern day society + advanced weaps\tech.

It's not that easy because, as I said, things are changing.

Sorry, perhaps I should have phrased it differently.  I think that in the Freespace era the death sentence will still be used, simply because death is extremely final.

It's final but isn't anywhere near to forced work and research in terms of effectiveness and benefits.

[General Battuta]

You can't do experiments on prisoners without their consent. It's been tried, and the results have been really abusive.

[Snail]

That's one damn good assumption, but I don't see that many episodes suggesting that Terrans are so militaristic and violent in FS. It may be true, I'm not excluding it, but we lack a decisive proof.

The Neo-Terran Front rebellion wouldn't have started if the Terran race wasn't militaristic and violent. If the Terrans were benevolent that rebellion wouldn't have started.

Perhaps it's only a small portion of the Terran race that is like that, but as long as there are a few disillusioned Terrans out there they will continue to influence the political situation, making capital punishment necessary.

Things are changing. We're far from perfect, but things are finally changing.

As I said elsewhere, only countries with a certain reputation keep relying on death penalties. Namely: China, Iran, and many others. In other words, it's not a good thing.

As I said, there is a lot of different levels in Terran society - Some civilizations are more advanced than others. If we're taking a (very dangerous) assumption that the USA are the most advanced civilization, with their fair trials and all, there are still a lot of civilizations that are less advanced, such as the PRC which still advocates some heavy-handed government stuff. In 300 years, maybe the most advanced civilization would have done away with the death penalty, but some voices will still call for it. Especially in a time of war.