Author Topic: ZIP format support  (Read 9397 times)

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Offline Gregster2k

  • 29
  • "HELLO, OMICRON."
I was poking around at my Media VPs for a while the other day, and then it occurred to me that we could just use (in lieu of VP's) a more common storage format like Uncompressed ZIP. For example, Quake 3 uses files (pk3's) which essentially are ZIPs with different file extensions.

Food for thought.

 

Offline Stormkeeper

  • Interviewer Extraordinaire
  • 211
  • Boomz!
The FS code is setup to read from VPs, so if you want it to read from Zip, you'll need to modify the code. And iirc, VPs and zip files are quite different.

Besides, why would you want to do that? Its basically the same thing, except for when reading from a zip, the program will have to uncompress/recompress upon opening/shutting down.
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Offline Jeff Vader

  • The Back of the Hero!
  • 212
  • Bwahaha
And, I currently believe that if we have vps instead of zips, new people are less likely to break their FreeSpace.
23:40 < achillion > EveningTea: ass
23:40 < achillion > wait no
23:40 < achillion > evilbagel: ass
23:40 < EveningTea > ?
23:40 < achillion > 2-letter tab complete failure

14:08 < achillion > there's too much talk of butts and dongs in here
14:08 < achillion > the level of discourse has really plummeted
14:08 < achillion > Let's talk about politics instead
14:08 <@The_E > butts and dongs are part of #hard-light's brand now
14:08 <@The_E > well
14:08 <@The_E > EvilBagel's brand, at least

01:06 < T-Rog > welp
01:07 < T-Rog > I've got to take some very strong antibiotics
01:07 < achillion > penis infection?
01:08 < T-Rog > Chlamydia
01:08 < achillion > O.o
01:09 < achillion > well
01:09 < achillion > I guess that happens
01:09 < T-Rog > at least it's curable
01:09 < achillion > yeah
01:10 < T-Rog > I take it you weren't actually expecting it to be a penis infection
01:10 < achillion > I was not

14:04 < achillion > Sometimes the way to simplify is to just have a habit and not think about it too much
14:05 < achillion > until stuff explodes
14:05 < achillion > then you start thinking about it

22:16 < T-Rog > I don't know how my gf would feel about Jewish conspiracy porn

15:41 <-INFO > EveningTea [[email protected]] has joined #hard-light
15:47 < EvilBagel> butt
15:51 < Achillion> yes
15:53 <-INFO > EveningTea [[email protected]] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client]

18:53 < Achillion> Dicks are fun

21:41 < MatthTheGeek> you can't spell assassin without two asses

20:05 < sigtau> i'm mining titcoins from now on

00:31 < oldlaptop> Drunken antisocial educated freezing hicks with good Internet == Finland stereotype

11:46 <-INFO > Kobrar [[email protected]] has joined #hard-light
11:50 < achtung> Surely you've heard of DVDA
11:50 < achtung> Double Vaginal Double ANal
11:51 < Kobrar> ...
11:51 <-INFO > Kobrar [[email protected]] has left #hard-light []

 

Offline Stormkeeper

  • Interviewer Extraordinaire
  • 211
  • Boomz!
True that. Can you imagine dl-ing a C&C3 mod in a zip file, and accidentally leaving it in your FS directory? FS tries to read it an ka blamms itself.
Ancient-Shivan War|Interview Board

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Offline Jeff Vader

  • The Back of the Hero!
  • 212
  • Bwahaha
Well, that too. But I was thinking of something like "Oh! These are zips. I know that file format!", followed by the opening of the zips, some tinkering, failure and a new thread at HLP saying "freespace doesnt start up you most make an update".
23:40 < achillion > EveningTea: ass
23:40 < achillion > wait no
23:40 < achillion > evilbagel: ass
23:40 < EveningTea > ?
23:40 < achillion > 2-letter tab complete failure

14:08 < achillion > there's too much talk of butts and dongs in here
14:08 < achillion > the level of discourse has really plummeted
14:08 < achillion > Let's talk about politics instead
14:08 <@The_E > butts and dongs are part of #hard-light's brand now
14:08 <@The_E > well
14:08 <@The_E > EvilBagel's brand, at least

01:06 < T-Rog > welp
01:07 < T-Rog > I've got to take some very strong antibiotics
01:07 < achillion > penis infection?
01:08 < T-Rog > Chlamydia
01:08 < achillion > O.o
01:09 < achillion > well
01:09 < achillion > I guess that happens
01:09 < T-Rog > at least it's curable
01:09 < achillion > yeah
01:10 < T-Rog > I take it you weren't actually expecting it to be a penis infection
01:10 < achillion > I was not

14:04 < achillion > Sometimes the way to simplify is to just have a habit and not think about it too much
14:05 < achillion > until stuff explodes
14:05 < achillion > then you start thinking about it

22:16 < T-Rog > I don't know how my gf would feel about Jewish conspiracy porn

15:41 <-INFO > EveningTea [[email protected]] has joined #hard-light
15:47 < EvilBagel> butt
15:51 < Achillion> yes
15:53 <-INFO > EveningTea [[email protected]] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client]

18:53 < Achillion> Dicks are fun

21:41 < MatthTheGeek> you can't spell assassin without two asses

20:05 < sigtau> i'm mining titcoins from now on

00:31 < oldlaptop> Drunken antisocial educated freezing hicks with good Internet == Finland stereotype

11:46 <-INFO > Kobrar [[email protected]] has joined #hard-light
11:50 < achtung> Surely you've heard of DVDA
11:50 < achtung> Double Vaginal Double ANal
11:51 < Kobrar> ...
11:51 <-INFO > Kobrar [[email protected]] has left #hard-light []

 

Offline Snail

  • SC 5
  • 214
  • Posts: ☂
Well, that too. But I was thinking of something like "Oh! These are zips. I know that file format!", followed by the opening of the zips, some tinkering, failure and a new thread at HLP saying "freespace doesnt start up you most make an update".
Well, that's bound to happen with INFASA since we're not using .VPs.

 

Offline karajorma

  • King Louie - Jungle VIP
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    • Karajorma's Freespace FAQ
Your idiocy doesn't have to be repeated by others. :p
Karajorma's Freespace FAQ. It's almost like asking me yourself.

[ Diaspora ] - [ Seeds Of Rebellion ] - [ Mind Games ]

 
Well...
I don't know if a new file-format would be needed...
But I think it would be good to support compression for the VP-Files and - as far as I know - that is somewhere on Taylors To-do-list (lesser Priority).

 

Offline Jeff Vader

  • The Back of the Hero!
  • 212
  • Bwahaha
Correct me if I'm incorrect, but wouldn't compression result in decreased performance?
23:40 < achillion > EveningTea: ass
23:40 < achillion > wait no
23:40 < achillion > evilbagel: ass
23:40 < EveningTea > ?
23:40 < achillion > 2-letter tab complete failure

14:08 < achillion > there's too much talk of butts and dongs in here
14:08 < achillion > the level of discourse has really plummeted
14:08 < achillion > Let's talk about politics instead
14:08 <@The_E > butts and dongs are part of #hard-light's brand now
14:08 <@The_E > well
14:08 <@The_E > EvilBagel's brand, at least

01:06 < T-Rog > welp
01:07 < T-Rog > I've got to take some very strong antibiotics
01:07 < achillion > penis infection?
01:08 < T-Rog > Chlamydia
01:08 < achillion > O.o
01:09 < achillion > well
01:09 < achillion > I guess that happens
01:09 < T-Rog > at least it's curable
01:09 < achillion > yeah
01:10 < T-Rog > I take it you weren't actually expecting it to be a penis infection
01:10 < achillion > I was not

14:04 < achillion > Sometimes the way to simplify is to just have a habit and not think about it too much
14:05 < achillion > until stuff explodes
14:05 < achillion > then you start thinking about it

22:16 < T-Rog > I don't know how my gf would feel about Jewish conspiracy porn

15:41 <-INFO > EveningTea [[email protected]] has joined #hard-light
15:47 < EvilBagel> butt
15:51 < Achillion> yes
15:53 <-INFO > EveningTea [[email protected]] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client]

18:53 < Achillion> Dicks are fun

21:41 < MatthTheGeek> you can't spell assassin without two asses

20:05 < sigtau> i'm mining titcoins from now on

00:31 < oldlaptop> Drunken antisocial educated freezing hicks with good Internet == Finland stereotype

11:46 <-INFO > Kobrar [[email protected]] has joined #hard-light
11:50 < achtung> Surely you've heard of DVDA
11:50 < achtung> Double Vaginal Double ANal
11:51 < Kobrar> ...
11:51 <-INFO > Kobrar [[email protected]] has left #hard-light []

 

Offline Herra Tohtori

  • The Academic
  • 211
  • Bad command or file name
Only during loading/caching the data I think... :nervous:
There are three things that last forever: Abort, Retry, Fail - and the greatest of these is Fail.

  

Offline blowfish

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  • Join the cult of KILL MY ROUTER!!!!!!!!!!1
Well, that's bound to happen with INFASA since we're not using .VPs.

Umm ... why? :wtf:

 

Offline Stormkeeper

  • Interviewer Extraordinaire
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  • Boomz!
Well, that too. But I was thinking of something like "Oh! These are zips. I know that file format!", followed by the opening of the zips, some tinkering, failure and a new thread at HLP saying "freespace doesnt start up you most make an update".
Ah... I remember that guy.

Umm ... why? :wtf:
Methinks he's joking.
Ancient-Shivan War|Interview Board

Member of the Scooby Doo Fanclub. And we're not talking a cartoon dog here people!!

 

Offline WMCoolmon

  • Purveyor of space crack
  • 213
Well, that too. But I was thinking of something like "Oh! These are zips. I know that file format!", followed by the opening of the zips, some tinkering, failure and a new thread at HLP saying "freespace doesnt start up you most make an update".

I always hated that scene in Jurassic Park since I learned what Unix was...

there are ways around that, like making an FS2Open-only config file that you could put in the ZIP. Possibly then the Launcher could read it and use it as a mod.ini

But I think the main reason is that it would slow down loading times egregiously, for not a whole lot of gain in disk space. You should already be compressing graphics files if you can, and text files (eg missions, readmes, tables) don't take up a whole lot of room by themselves. Models take up a fair bit. Sound is usually compressed, and should be compressed, as putting it an OGG from a WAV greatly decreases filesize without a whole lot of compression artifacts, especially with voice.

So basically all you're gaining is the space from compressing models, but you're having to decompress every single file in the ZIP file.

Compressed VP format is on the way to address some of the recompressing issues, but it's still a ways from being implemented into the engine. It will actually have the possibility of better compression than ZIP, as well as certain error-detection algorithms to prevent corruption issues.
-C

 
Well... For the "longer loading": Depends on what level of compression you choose.
In Quake 3, for example, you can recompress the pk3s with a higher rate. And up to a certain rate, the decompressing isn't taking much longer than reading from a "store only" pk3.
And for the "not much smaller"-Argument: Well... Different VPs could be compressed at different rates. And, at least, compression IS making a difference here. Okay. With todays HDDs, this difference seems very small, but I'm still a "fan" of "keeping as much free as possible" ;)

 

Offline Jeff Vader

  • The Back of the Hero!
  • 212
  • Bwahaha
Well, that too. But I was thinking of something like "Oh! These are zips. I know that file format!", followed by the opening of the zips, some tinkering, failure and a new thread at HLP saying "freespace doesnt start up you most make an update".
Ah... I remember that guy.
Incidentally, I'm now quite sure that the issue he had back then was very much related to the (absence of) chipset drivers. Too bad he doesn't seem to be online anymore.
23:40 < achillion > EveningTea: ass
23:40 < achillion > wait no
23:40 < achillion > evilbagel: ass
23:40 < EveningTea > ?
23:40 < achillion > 2-letter tab complete failure

14:08 < achillion > there's too much talk of butts and dongs in here
14:08 < achillion > the level of discourse has really plummeted
14:08 < achillion > Let's talk about politics instead
14:08 <@The_E > butts and dongs are part of #hard-light's brand now
14:08 <@The_E > well
14:08 <@The_E > EvilBagel's brand, at least

01:06 < T-Rog > welp
01:07 < T-Rog > I've got to take some very strong antibiotics
01:07 < achillion > penis infection?
01:08 < T-Rog > Chlamydia
01:08 < achillion > O.o
01:09 < achillion > well
01:09 < achillion > I guess that happens
01:09 < T-Rog > at least it's curable
01:09 < achillion > yeah
01:10 < T-Rog > I take it you weren't actually expecting it to be a penis infection
01:10 < achillion > I was not

14:04 < achillion > Sometimes the way to simplify is to just have a habit and not think about it too much
14:05 < achillion > until stuff explodes
14:05 < achillion > then you start thinking about it

22:16 < T-Rog > I don't know how my gf would feel about Jewish conspiracy porn

15:41 <-INFO > EveningTea [[email protected]] has joined #hard-light
15:47 < EvilBagel> butt
15:51 < Achillion> yes
15:53 <-INFO > EveningTea [[email protected]] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client]

18:53 < Achillion> Dicks are fun

21:41 < MatthTheGeek> you can't spell assassin without two asses

20:05 < sigtau> i'm mining titcoins from now on

00:31 < oldlaptop> Drunken antisocial educated freezing hicks with good Internet == Finland stereotype

11:46 <-INFO > Kobrar [[email protected]] has joined #hard-light
11:50 < achtung> Surely you've heard of DVDA
11:50 < achtung> Double Vaginal Double ANal
11:51 < Kobrar> ...
11:51 <-INFO > Kobrar [[email protected]] has left #hard-light []

 

Offline Stormkeeper

  • Interviewer Extraordinaire
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  • Boomz!
Where was that thread of his, anyway? I like to read dumb threads like that once in a while, remind myself of the stupidity humans are capable of.
Ancient-Shivan War|Interview Board

Member of the Scooby Doo Fanclub. And we're not talking a cartoon dog here people!!

 

Offline Jeff Vader

  • The Back of the Hero!
  • 212
  • Bwahaha
http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,51250.0.html

Agreed. I also do that from time to time. My personal favourites are fs2freak88's rants about declaring ST:R dead.
23:40 < achillion > EveningTea: ass
23:40 < achillion > wait no
23:40 < achillion > evilbagel: ass
23:40 < EveningTea > ?
23:40 < achillion > 2-letter tab complete failure

14:08 < achillion > there's too much talk of butts and dongs in here
14:08 < achillion > the level of discourse has really plummeted
14:08 < achillion > Let's talk about politics instead
14:08 <@The_E > butts and dongs are part of #hard-light's brand now
14:08 <@The_E > well
14:08 <@The_E > EvilBagel's brand, at least

01:06 < T-Rog > welp
01:07 < T-Rog > I've got to take some very strong antibiotics
01:07 < achillion > penis infection?
01:08 < T-Rog > Chlamydia
01:08 < achillion > O.o
01:09 < achillion > well
01:09 < achillion > I guess that happens
01:09 < T-Rog > at least it's curable
01:09 < achillion > yeah
01:10 < T-Rog > I take it you weren't actually expecting it to be a penis infection
01:10 < achillion > I was not

14:04 < achillion > Sometimes the way to simplify is to just have a habit and not think about it too much
14:05 < achillion > until stuff explodes
14:05 < achillion > then you start thinking about it

22:16 < T-Rog > I don't know how my gf would feel about Jewish conspiracy porn

15:41 <-INFO > EveningTea [[email protected]] has joined #hard-light
15:47 < EvilBagel> butt
15:51 < Achillion> yes
15:53 <-INFO > EveningTea [[email protected]] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client]

18:53 < Achillion> Dicks are fun

21:41 < MatthTheGeek> you can't spell assassin without two asses

20:05 < sigtau> i'm mining titcoins from now on

00:31 < oldlaptop> Drunken antisocial educated freezing hicks with good Internet == Finland stereotype

11:46 <-INFO > Kobrar [[email protected]] has joined #hard-light
11:50 < achtung> Surely you've heard of DVDA
11:50 < achtung> Double Vaginal Double ANal
11:51 < Kobrar> ...
11:51 <-INFO > Kobrar [[email protected]] has left #hard-light []

 

Offline Stormkeeper

  • Interviewer Extraordinaire
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  • Boomz!
Indeed. Those and Darth hojape(sp?) random rants around HLP.
Ancient-Shivan War|Interview Board

Member of the Scooby Doo Fanclub. And we're not talking a cartoon dog here people!!

 

Offline Snail

  • SC 5
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  • Posts: ☂
Umm ... why? :wtf:
I was against the idea too, but it makes patching things one effing hell of a lot easier. Before that we had to download the entire mother****ing .VP (excuse my French) all over again just to change one or to things (remember, we've gone standalone now, which compounded the problem further). In future I think we'd probably add all of the stuff into small .VP files to make it (slightly) easier.

 

Offline karajorma

  • King Louie - Jungle VIP
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    • Karajorma's Freespace FAQ
You shouldn't have to be changing things to the VP file though. If you're doing that you've already ****ed up.

As far as I'm concerned you only compile a VP file after you've finished beta testing (or mostly finished at least). If you're compiling one before that then yes, you're going to end up having to re-upload just cause you needed to change one or two files. But the sheer stupidity involved in doing that doesn't justify even greater stupidity when it comes to distributing a mod with files the users can easily delete or change and then complain at you about. Just cause VPs will cause a hassle if you are foolish enough to use them during development doesn't mean that you should release that way.

Multiple smaller VPs (The way :v: did it basically) has always been my preference.
Karajorma's Freespace FAQ. It's almost like asking me yourself.

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