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Off-Topic Discussion => Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: 0rph3u5 on September 02, 2018, 06:09:04 am

Title: BFG: Armada II - Nom Nom Space Cathedral Nom Nom Nom
Post by: 0rph3u5 on September 02, 2018, 06:09:04 am
As the discussion of the release was bound up in the thread on the last game, I figured to give its own topic

New Trailer is out and ... wait how many factions do I count?


- The Imperial Navy
- The Adeptus Mechanicus
- The Adeptus Astares (prior to some legaleze known as Space Marines)
- Necrons
- Tyranids
- Fallen Astares (the artists fomerly known as Chaos Space Marines)
- Drukahri (fomerly known as Dark Eldar)
- Orkz
- Aeldari Corsairs
- T'au

It is no in-engine footage but actually stuff to talk about:

Most notably the visual upgrade the Tyranids seem to be getting, which like the T'au DLC for the first game will be taking its clues from the designs made by Forgeworld instead of the original models for the faction.

This has me excited, because despite all its flaws (e.g. omniscient AI) and rough balancing across its lifetime (e.g. 12k Eldar/Aeldari Pulsars), the first game was fun and played "too much" of the multiplayer (submarine tactics FTW).


... oh, and it has been delayed into 2019...
Title: Re: BFG: Armada II - Nom Nom Space Cathedral Nom Nom Nom
Post by: The E on September 02, 2018, 06:30:51 am
I am so hyped for this game
Title: Re: BFG: Armada II - Nom Nom Space Cathedral Nom Nom Nom
Post by: Oddgrim on September 02, 2018, 06:46:53 am
'Ere we go! 'Ere we go! :D
Title: Re: BFG: Armada II - Nom Nom Space Cathedral Nom Nom Nom
Post by: Mongoose on September 02, 2018, 01:14:59 pm
I don't know 40K but did a ship just eat another ship?  Because I am totally on board with that.
Title: Re: BFG: Armada II - Nom Nom Space Cathedral Nom Nom Nom
Post by: Spoon on September 02, 2018, 01:21:35 pm
I don't know 40K but did a ship just eat another ship?  Because I am totally on board with that.
Is ship vore your kind of fetish?
Title: Re: BFG: Armada II - Nom Nom Space Cathedral Nom Nom Nom
Post by: X3N0-Life-Form on September 02, 2018, 01:52:00 pm
Saw that pop up in my youtube feed yesterday. I'm still curious as to how they are going to balance all these factions. *looks at the Necron*

I don't know 40K but did a ship just eat another ship?  Because I am totally on board with that.
Is ship vore your kind of fetish?
Sounds like something you would find in Kancolle doujinshi...
Title: Re: BFG: Armada II - Nom Nom Space Cathedral Nom Nom Nom
Post by: HLD_Prophecy on September 02, 2018, 02:09:08 pm
I'm not into 40K but that 'Nid fleet tho. It looks Tyranid for sure but different somehow, not like Hive Fleets I've seen.

EDIT: And the Necrons getting face time. That earns a thumbs up.
Title: Re: BFG: Armada II - Nom Nom Space Cathedral Nom Nom Nom
Post by: 0rph3u5 on September 30, 2018, 06:55:41 pm
While I was busy elsewhere, the Devs behind BFG:A2 started releasing the videos introducing the new ship designs:


At least the art direction is solid :)
Title: Re: BFG: Armada II - Nom Nom Space Cathedral Nom Nom Nom
Post by: crizza on October 01, 2018, 09:07:50 am
Read a post on Facebook and a guy complained that an imperial battleship had less turrets than on official pictures :D
Title: Re: BFG: Armada II - Nom Nom Space Cathedral Nom Nom Nom
Post by: 0rph3u5 on October 07, 2018, 01:57:18 pm
Read a post on Facebook and a guy complained that an imperial battleship had less turrets than on official pictures :D

Tindalos' BFG adaptation and "overeager" fans* complaining that some of choices made for the adaptation being the first possible thing(s), sadly go hand in hand.

I distinctly remember a "conversation" during BFG:A's open beta test with another member of their official forums about the Eldar/Aeldari Pulsar cannons not being weapons that fire automatically but a player-triggered ability. The outrage was high and even among the bystanders some were just not having the "it makes sense because its an incentive systems so players play Eldar how they are supposed to be in the fluff"-argument not to mention the then-speculative argument abouts how it might be warranted by balancing.
(Although I will always tresure the memory of how a datamined tool-tip with no actual info but the variable names - yet somehow containing all the formating code - became a piece of "evidence" :D )

However I think, the fact that Tindalos is allowed - under guidance - to make up the holes in the roster and do make the changes needed to existing designs, is a positive sign that what is right for the adaptation is winning out.

* The defintion of "fan" here being someone whose affectionate relationship with an intellectual properity has become part of their identity.
Title: Re: BFG: Armada II - Nom Nom Space Cathedral Nom Nom Nom
Post by: Aesaar on October 07, 2018, 02:37:48 pm
Some people really don't understand that some changes to how things are in the TT game are necessary for balance and/or fun.  Especially since the TT game wasn't especially balanced except when it came to Imperial Navy vs Chaos.  Just making Eldar pulsars 'lances, except better' wouldn't have been interesting.

Hell, just making the Tau viable as a faction required Tindalos to drastically improve Tau ships.  They went a bit too far if tournament results are any indication, but still.  They'll probably need to make similar changes to Necron ships for 2, because Necrons in the TT game were blatantly OP, mostly because they came late in BFG's lifecycle and not much attention was being spared for the game anymore.


I do kinda wish Tindalos had gone for something closer to the scenic art aesthetic rather than the more simplistic TT model aesthetic, or at least something less slavishly devoted to the layout of the TT models, which were made in the early 2000s out of metal and were rather unimaginative in how the guns looked and how they were laid out.  The game's current art style doesn't really convey that Imperial battleships range from 12-20km long and are usually thousands of years old.  Even a Cobra-class destroyer is about a kilometer long.

I get that that'd be way more work and that it'd be harder to make it work from this game's perspective, but I'd still love to see a 3d rendition of this someday:

(https://i.imgur.com/5WeDwVf.jpg)
Title: Re: BFG: Armada II - Nom Nom Space Cathedral Nom Nom Nom
Post by: Spoon on October 07, 2018, 05:17:05 pm
Quote
Hell, just making the Tau viable as a faction required Tindalos to drastically improve Tau ships.  They went a bit too far if tournament results are any indication, but still.  They'll probably need to make similar changes to Necron ships for 2, because Necrons in the TT game were blatantly OP, mostly because they came late in BFG's lifecycle and not much attention was being spared for the game anymore.
At least that makes some sense in terms of lore. I'd expect the Tau ships to be weaker and the Necrons to be OP.
Title: Re: BFG: Armada II - Nom Nom Space Cathedral Nom Nom Nom
Post by: 0rph3u5 on October 07, 2018, 08:54:59 pm
I never quite got, that beyond the replication of the TT stats, the Tau/T'au Navy was supposed to be inferior by default....

Part of the fluff on Tau warfare has always been that their tech and tactics are scary good, if a bit dogmatic - the only reasons they have not overrun the galaxy yet being a mix of having slower (yet predictable) FTL and the Imperium of Man's doctrine being so wildly irrational that they just don't give ground, even if it is strategically advantageous things to do; or they just resort to the most calous version of "scorched earth". (also Space Marines)
Title: Re: BFG: Armada II - Nom Nom Space Cathedral Nom Nom Nom
Post by: StarSlayer on October 07, 2018, 09:15:58 pm
Isn't BFG part of the Specialist Games revival coming after Adeptus Titanicus finishes rolling out?  It could be possible some of the redesigns and extra classes may reflect what we may see when it revamps.  Though if they change the scale like AT I will pitch a fit.
Title: Re: BFG: Armada II - Nom Nom Space Cathedral Nom Nom Nom
Post by: Scotty on October 07, 2018, 09:24:42 pm
I never quite got, that beyond the replication of the TT stats, the Tau/T'au Navy was supposed to be inferior by default....

Part of the fluff on Tau warfare has always been that their tech and tactics are scary good, if a bit dogmatic - the only reasons they have not overrun the galaxy yet being a mix of having slower (yet predictable) FTL and the Imperium of Man's doctrine being so wildly irrational that they just don't give ground, even if it is strategically advantageous things to do; or they just resort to the most calous version of "scorched earth". (also Space Marines)

The T'au Empire is, by comparison to every other faction in 40k by a huge margin, incredibly small.  When they lose a battleship or fleet group, it represents a tangible, whole-number % of their entire Empire-wide fleet strength.

That tends to manifest itself in grognard brains as "The T'au navy is weak", which is really easy to turn into "T'au ships should be weak".
Title: Re: BFG: Armada II - Nom Nom Space Cathedral Nom Nom Nom
Post by: Spoon on October 08, 2018, 05:06:16 am
Because despite having a massive tactical advantage against a piecemeal arriving imperial fleet and succesfully springing the trap, the Tau still lose in a space battle against the imperium. (http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Damocles_Gulf_Crusade#The_Battle_of_Pra.27yen) If their ships were on par with their imperial equivalents, then surely they should have easily won this encounter. It's not just a matter of numbers, Tau ships on average are just not the equal of Imperial ships in the fluff.
Title: Re: BFG: Armada II - Nom Nom Space Cathedral Nom Nom Nom
Post by: StarSlayer on October 08, 2018, 01:11:15 pm
IIRC the Tau Navy was initially composed of a bunch of converted colony ships/bulk freighters (the original GW BFG models)?  It wasn't until after the Damocles Crusade and their encounter with some HFB skirmish elements that they got their **** together and started creating dedicated warships(the fancy Forge World resin).
Title: Re: BFG: Armada II - Nom Nom Space Cathedral Nom Nom Nom
Post by: Aesaar on October 08, 2018, 01:45:37 pm
I never quite got, that beyond the replication of the TT stats, the Tau/T'au Navy was supposed to be inferior by default....

Part of the fluff on Tau warfare has always been that their tech and tactics are scary good, if a bit dogmatic - the only reasons they have not overrun the galaxy yet being a mix of having slower (yet predictable) FTL and the Imperium of Man's doctrine being so wildly irrational that they just don't give ground, even if it is strategically advantageous things to do; or they just resort to the most calous version of "scorched earth". (also Space Marines)

The T'au Empire is, by comparison to every other faction in 40k by a huge margin, incredibly small.  When they lose a battleship or fleet group, it represents a tangible, whole-number % of their entire Empire-wide fleet strength.

That tends to manifest itself in grognard brains as "The T'au navy is weak", which is really easy to turn into "T'au ships should be weak".

The Tau Navy has always been depicted as having qualitatively inferior ships when compared to the Imperial Navy.  Hell, in the Taros campaign book, the Tau Custodian carrier, two Protector-class cruisers, and their escort were pitted against an Overlord-class battlecruiser, a Lunar-class cruiser and their escorts, and this was presented as a reasonably even fight (one the Imperial Navy won).  That's how the first book in which the first real Tau warship appeared showed them.  More recent Tau fluff hasn't shown enough of fleet actions to counter this depiction.

Obviously, Tindalos needed to change this for the sake of gameplay. 

Tau technology is really good on the small scale, but as the scale goes up, the Imperium starts eclipsing them really, really fast.  Once you hit Titan scale, the Imperium takes the technological and firepower edge and keeps it.

The reason the Tau haven't overrun the galaxy is because the Imperium could crush them by simple virtue of being willing to lose way more than the Tau even could.  Tau survival is entirely predicated on them staying too small to warrant the effort to wipe them out.  And that the Imperium probably understands that the Tau Empire is a far better neighbor than whatever would take their place, likely Orks or Tyranids.
Title: Re: BFG: Armada II - Nom Nom Space Cathedral Nom Nom Nom
Post by: StarSlayer on October 08, 2018, 02:52:22 pm
I just checked my copy of the BFG Armada Rule set and it only lists the merchant fleet.  Did the ForgeWorld ships, which appear to be the ones Tindloss used, ever get in the one of the official GW rule books or were they probably just released with a Forge World PDF rules?
Title: Re: BFG: Armada II - Nom Nom Space Cathedral Nom Nom Nom
Post by: Aesaar on October 08, 2018, 03:04:56 pm
They were released in Imperial Armour Vol. 3: The Taros Campaign, which is an official GW book because Forge World is as GW as Black Library is.
Title: Re: BFG: Armada II - Nom Nom Space Cathedral Nom Nom Nom
Post by: StarSlayer on October 08, 2018, 03:26:00 pm
Sorry I meant that in a "can I easily look them up in a BFG rule book" way not in a "ForgeWorld is not valid in regular play" way, I am not looking to dig up that point of contention :P  I was curious how the FW ships stacked up to The Navy stat wise.
Title: Re: BFG: Armada II - Nom Nom Space Cathedral Nom Nom Nom
Post by: Aesaar on October 08, 2018, 03:42:34 pm
Since this book is long out of print (like the rest of BFG), I've taken the liberty of uploading the BFG-specific pages.

https://imgur.com/a/4kSnUCZ

Railguns are gun batteries, Ion Cannons are lances, Gravitic Launchers are torpedoes, and grav-hooks allow for the attachment of Warden- or Castellan-class escorts.
Title: Re: BFG: Armada II - Nom Nom Space Cathedral Nom Nom Nom
Post by: 0rph3u5 on October 27, 2018, 03:03:15 pm
Next ship preview:

It is nice to see how far they are going to animate the Tyranid ships... I would like to see some more action now.


... and for the people who like "boring":

I don't think the Phalanx will be playable (its a flying space station after all), or if it is going to be a limited run in single player only as they have already talked about a Fall of Cadia-campaign in previews.
Title: Re: BFG: Armada II - Nom Nom Space Cathedral Nom Nom Nom
Post by: Aesaar on October 27, 2018, 11:56:50 pm
An accurate representation of the Phalanx would be insanely imbalanced on this game's scale.  The ship forms the second keystone of Terra's orbital defense network, with the ****ing Moon on the other side.  It was the single most powerful ship in the Imperial military even during the Great Crusade.  It's a fleet killer.  Its only equal in the fluff would be the World Engine, the Speranza, and The Rock.

Kinda disappointed they went with the older giant space station version rather than the giant dagger Praetorian of Dorn an HH3: Extermination described it as.
Title: Re: BFG: Armada II - Nom Nom Space Cathedral Nom Nom Nom
Post by: General Battuta on October 28, 2018, 02:29:17 am
That hive ship wiggles too fast, ruins the sense of scale. Slow the wiggles!
Title: Re: BFG: Armada II - Nom Nom Space Cathedral Nom Nom Nom
Post by: 0rph3u5 on October 29, 2018, 06:46:05 am
That hive ship wiggles too fast, ruins the sense of scale. Slow the wiggles!

While a) this is test footage and I don't know if hasn't been speed-up to fit the length of the trailer and b) I kinda agree with the general sentiment, I think that there is a rationale that overrules this.

IMO the faster movement accomplishes two things:

1. It puts a emphasis on how alien the Tyranids are, just like the it's-a-cephalopod-and-it-is-not line of design.

2. It highlights the predatory nature of Tyranids - hurried movement = eagerness for the kill.

That it would be strange view through a common frame of reverence might just add to it, as subversion of expectation or deliberate alienation.... But then again I might just be expecting too much...
Title: Re: BFG: Armada II - Nom Nom Space Cathedral Nom Nom Nom
Post by: 0rph3u5 on November 16, 2018, 10:33:01 pm

... to me it is just a huge to target for torpedoes :D
Title: Re: BFG: Armada II - Nom Nom Space Cathedral Nom Nom Nom
Post by: rubixcube on November 16, 2018, 11:00:24 pm

... to me it is just a huge to target for torpedoes :D

Hot damn that looks nice  ;7, I didn't expect them to add the Vengeful spirit as well.
Reaaaally hope they add them to multiplayer, but I'm not holding my breath.
Title: Re: BFG: Armada II - Nom Nom Space Cathedral Nom Nom Nom
Post by: HLD_Prophecy on November 16, 2018, 11:17:20 pm
I was never the hugest Warhammer fan (anyway Necrons > Imperium/Eldar/Chaos/Orkz/anyone else) but the baroque (gothic I guess?) detail on these vessels is insane. They feel like living structures that have existed for millennia. And so they are.
Title: Re: BFG: Armada II - Nom Nom Space Cathedral Nom Nom Nom
Post by: 0rph3u5 on November 17, 2018, 11:12:42 am
the baroque (gothic I guess?) detail on these vessels

The part of my brain that stores all the art and architecture history just entered open revolt...

While the association of Baroque with highly detailed is more or less correct, baroque styles also celebrated their richness in detail and ornamentation through the use of light and space (that's why baroque architecture tends to employ a lot shiny metals, polished surfaces or glass; also gardens) - the Warhammer 40k Imperial style however is more Gothic Revival than Baroque or Gothic, as it takes stylistic cues from how Gothic architecture tends to hide its "engineering qualities" (outside of religious symbolism a lot of authentic gothic ornamentation is just to draw the eye away from the purely functional elements or provide the illusion of continuousness across a building) while being it also so overstuffed and needless, as only a poor imitation can be.
Title: Re: BFG: Armada II - Nom Nom Space Cathedral Nom Nom Nom
Post by: Spoon on November 17, 2018, 11:30:03 am
The part of my brain that stores all the art and architecture history just entered open revolt...

While the association of Baroque with highly detailed is more or less correct, baroque styles also celebrated their richness in detail and ornamentation through the use of light and space (that's why baroque architecture tends to employ a lot shiny metals, polished surfaces or glass; also gardens) - the Warhammer 40k Imperial style however is more Gothic Revival than Baroque or Gothic, as it takes stylistic cues from how Gothic architecture tends to hide its "engineering qualities" (outside of religious symbolism a lot of authentic gothic ornamentation is just to draw the eye away from the purely functional elements or provide the illusion of continuousness across a building) while being it also so overstuffed and needless, as only a poor imitation can be.

Title: Re: BFG: Armada II - Nom Nom Space Cathedral Nom Nom Nom
Post by: HLD_Prophecy on November 17, 2018, 01:52:34 pm
Thanks for the correction Orpheus.  :)  Good to know. I do military history mostly, not too well-versed in art.  :lol:
Title: Re: BFG: Armada II - Nom Nom Space Cathedral Nom Nom Nom
Post by: 0rph3u5 on November 28, 2018, 12:40:11 pm
GAMEPLAY! ... 3 whole minutes of the basics...


The new UI looks good, less characterful but way more functional. Not sure about the new fleet sizes, I always was a fan of the 2v2 PvP where you had less points individually, which in turn meant that you could actually focus more on getting the most out of your ships.

And the Aeldari Corsair instant 180 is back - I can already feel the Warp surging with all the hate :D

Although Drukhari sound very much like my style (attack, vanish, attack again)...
Title: Re: BFG: Armada II - Nom Nom Space Cathedral Nom Nom Nom
Post by: crizza on November 28, 2018, 02:45:36 pm
They had a livestream on Facebook yesterday. At this point, they have only the first loyal chapters for Astartes, so no Black Templars as of now.
Title: Re: BFG: Armada II - Nom Nom Space Cathedral Nom Nom Nom
Post by: 0rph3u5 on December 03, 2018, 01:28:17 pm
They had a livestream on Facebook yesterday.

This one?
Title: Re: BFG: Armada II - Nom Nom Space Cathedral Nom Nom Nom
Post by: crizza on December 03, 2018, 02:11:13 pm
Yes, around 50 minutes into the game, they play Astartes and sadly, there are no Black Templars.

Concerning this:
Quote
Hot damn that looks nice  ;7, I didn't expect them to add the Vengeful spirit as well.
Only because they mentioned the Vengefull Spirit does not mean they add a chaos version of the Glorianna.
Title: Re: BFG: Armada II - Nom Nom Space Cathedral Nom Nom Nom
Post by: Aesaar on December 06, 2018, 10:50:43 pm
Been playing beta against AI.

Customization has been streamlined a lot.  It's no longer on a per ship basis, you get upgrades and abilities for your whole fleet, and the upgrades you get don't necessarily apply to every ship.

On one hand, yeah, less customization, but on the other, you no longer need to keep track of a bunch of special abilities for each ship.  I do wish there was a bit more to customize in terms of upgrades, but it's a good change overall.  Feels better to play.  Less overwhelming.

I've only really played Imperial Navy, and they get a bunch of new toys to play with.  1 new escort, 3 new light cruisers, 1 new battlecruiser, 3 grand cruisers (basically specialized pocket battleships), and 2 new battleships.

Tyranids are a pain in the ass to fight.  They're pretty stealthy, very maneuverable, and they will butcher you up close.  Downside is that their long-range firepower sucks and their ships are slow.

My biggest complaint so far is that comparing ships and their weapons is a chore, especially across different factions.  Wish we could have a unit viewer like Wargame Red Dragon.

Also, Apocalypse-class battleship owns.  Slap on the flagship range upgrade, lock on ability, and watch your perfectly accurate lance batteries reach out to extreme range.

Title: Re: BFG: Armada II - Nom Nom Space Cathedral Nom Nom Nom
Post by: 0rph3u5 on December 07, 2018, 11:21:17 am
Concerning this:
Quote
Hot damn that looks nice  ;7, I didn't expect them to add the Vengeful spirit as well.
Only because they mentioned the Vengefull Spirit does not mean they add a chaos version of the Glorianna.

(https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/954098127662439351/8519FD67C44DC04DEF748BA0E75889BBD6D6423E/)
It's in the prologue .... in a cutscene ...



I have been trying out the Craftworlders ... whose ship list ends with the Phoenix Battlecruiser
Also saw that the Eclipse and the Vaul were moved down from BCs to CAs for the Corsairs.

Also Ork have Rokz now :D

Meanwhile, the AI doesn't seem to be that omniscient in regards to stealth but that might just be objective play in skirmish. However Aledari ships still need to be managed by hand because the AI will still stop to fire at range.

EDIT: note to self: dont pick the drukhari BB without fighters  :D
Title: Re: BFG: Armada II - Nom Nom Space Cathedral Nom Nom Nom
Post by: 0rph3u5 on December 07, 2018, 04:34:35 pm
My biggest complaint so far is that comparing ships and their weapons is a chore, especially across different factions.  Wish we could have a unit viewer like Wargame Red Dragon.

In a multiplayer game you can get an extended overview, including the applied upgrades:
(https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/954098127663423445/065FC7ECAE215FF747F4DC2D87FD89E6B224DBF8/)

Or do you want more? (actually curious...)
Title: Re: BFG: Armada II - Nom Nom Space Cathedral Nom Nom Nom
Post by: Aesaar on December 07, 2018, 08:32:35 pm
I mean I'd like to be able to compare ship stats side by side in the fleet selection menu and be able to see weapon stats without needing to mouse over them.

Also in my experience, carriers suck.  The Brace for Impact stance doubles the accuracy of point defense guns, and the extended range on point defense compared to Armada 1 means multiple ships can provide more than enough mutual coverage to nullify almost any bomber attack.  This coupled with limited uses makes actual guns more useful than strikecraft.  Especially since carriers are overcosted as well.
Title: Re: BFG: Armada II - Nom Nom Space Cathedral Nom Nom Nom
Post by: 0rph3u5 on December 07, 2018, 10:02:31 pm
Also in my experience, carriers suck.  The Brace for Impact stance doubles the accuracy of point defense guns, and the extended range on point defense compared to Armada 1 means multiple ships can provide more than enough mutual coverage to nullify almost any bomber attack.  This coupled with limited uses makes actual guns more useful than strikecraft.  Especially since carriers are overcosted as well.

I have the exact opposite experience playing 2v2s .... but I've been playing Aeldari factions which have superior fighters anyway. And in 2v2 everyone is running 2-3 ship builds, except Orkz, Tyranids and Tau (just how many escorts do the Tau get?)

However unlike BFG:A1 you now have to save your fighters and bombers for later, instead of relying on them to take apart you opponents ships. Carriers are a more defensive play now instead of just "haha, I am out of range your guns" (which was a problem with Chaos and Corsairs in the first game); they are more complimentary to other ships now.

EDIT: Also, fighters and bombers that successfully RTB don't deplete a charge (at least not with Aeldari fighters)
Title: Re: BFG: Armada II - Nom Nom Space Cathedral Nom Nom Nom
Post by: crizza on December 08, 2018, 10:01:23 pm
Concerning this:
Quote
Hot damn that looks nice  ;7, I didn't expect them to add the Vengeful spirit as well.
Only because they mentioned the Vengefull Spirit does not mean they add a chaos version of the Glorianna.

(https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/954098127662439351/8519FD67C44DC04DEF748BA0E75889BBD6D6423E/)
It's in the prologue .... in a cutscene ...



I stand corrected then. But when I wrote my comment, the Prologue was not released yet^^
Title: Re: BFG: Armada II - Nom Nom Space Cathedral Nom Nom Nom
Post by: rubixcube on December 09, 2018, 08:35:30 am
Concerning this:
Quote
Hot damn that looks nice  ;7, I didn't expect them to add the Vengeful spirit as well.
Only because they mentioned the Vengefull Spirit does not mean they add a chaos version of the Glorianna.

(https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/954098127662439351/8519FD67C44DC04DEF748BA0E75889BBD6D6423E/)
It's in the prologue .... in a cutscene ...



I stand corrected then. But when I wrote my comment, the Prologue was not released yet^^
Just finished the prologue campaign, maybe a little rough round the edges, but overall It looks promising.
Title: Re: BFG: Armada II - Nom Nom Space Cathedral Nom Nom Nom
Post by: 0rph3u5 on December 10, 2018, 04:51:25 pm
Follow up on Carriers:
Check out the Imperial Navy Exorcist Grand Cruiser... Combo Fighters to take down turrets with Assault Boats to de-crew enemy ships.
Title: Re: BFG: Armada II - Nom Nom Space Cathedral Nom Nom Nom
Post by: 0rph3u5 on December 14, 2018, 04:33:33 pm
Just finished the prologue campaign, maybe a little rough round the edges, but overall It looks promising.

Part of that is probably trying to cram all the events of the Fall of Cadia into it, and making it a tutorial at the same time.

The worst offender is the "Battlegroup Silver Dawn"-segment in the end, which they have done in-engine. There is some good cinematography there, but it is way to busy in its visuals (too much on screen at once).



As for the game itself, from the Beta you can see it is an improvement with regards to mechanics and graphics. Everything from the first game is more refined.

The diversity of play styles across factions and builds is amazing and very, very welcome. (Let's hope they manage to balance it.)

There are remaining issues in PvP however, like the lack of a proper pregame lobby for final adjustments to the kit you go into battle with (just limit it to 1 perk change, for balance). 1v1 also still sucks, despite ability spams having gone the way of the Dodo bird diverse fleets still seem to be a losing proposition no matter what.

There are also still a number of balancing problems* and a few bugs (e.g. the Aeldari Maelstrom ability does affect shielded ships despite the tooltip saying otherwise). Most of those, esspecially the stability issues in during matchmaking, are hopefully sorted out by release.

*Too bad most of those are returning issues, looking at you, Druhkari with Accelerated Batteries - aka "Hit and Run Fleet getting range boni breaking the hit and run-concept" - and perked-up Necron Solar Pulse - aka "lack of a telegraph makes powerful ability a win-button". Used to be the problem with Eldar Pulsars and the Nova Spam repectively in the first game, so why did they make a return???
Title: Re: BFG: Armada II - Nom Nom Space Cathedral Nom Nom Nom
Post by: General Battuta on December 14, 2018, 05:24:07 pm
I should probably buy this
Title: Re: BFG: Armada II - Nom Nom Space Cathedral Nom Nom Nom
Post by: Vidmaster on December 27, 2018, 03:58:56 am
It looks to me like the game is more micro-intense than before, was they goal not to REDUCE the mico in order to accomodate larger fleets?
Title: Re: BFG: Armada II - Nom Nom Space Cathedral Nom Nom Nom
Post by: 0rph3u5 on December 27, 2018, 02:29:41 pm
It's like this:

Ships no longer have individual abilities, only your flagship has two; in the previous game every line ship had 1-4 abilities, depending on class. This doesn't include fighters, torpedoes or boarding.
(=micro down)
Most Abilities are limited use now.
(=macro up)

You cannot automate your abilities (including boarding and fighters) anymore.
(=micro up)

There are generally more ships, esspecially since it is encouraged to take Escorts for their detection and silent running capabilities. This makes navigation a bit tricky.
(=micro and macro up)

In turn, orders are now modal (i.e. turn on/off)
(=micro and macro down)

There are now alternative ways for ships to be eliminated from play, drifting hulk (all crew dead as result of boarding) & permanent muntiny (ship morale drops to 0). Previously a ship needed to be destroyed or warped out to be eliminated from play (ps. The incentive for a voluntary warp-out is gone now).
(= macro up)
Title: Re: BFG: Armada II - Nom Nom Space Cathedral Nom Nom Nom
Post by: HLD_Prophecy on December 27, 2018, 09:46:40 pm
Someone pre-ordered it for me for Christmas. :D They knew me too well. Not really a Warhammer fan but I will enjoy this game, I'm sure. Looking forward most to using Necron and Tau Merchant Fleets.
Title: Re: BFG: Armada II - Nom Nom Space Cathedral Nom Nom Nom
Post by: 0rph3u5 on January 02, 2019, 07:56:33 pm
In anticipation of the 2nd Beta for pre-order customers, who would avalible for some "joint fleet exercises" in the run-up to release?

(This has not to do with the fact that my Asuryani will really need a consistent "anvil" to do their best as a "hammer" ;) )



Title: Re: BFG: Armada II - Nom Nom Space Cathedral Nom Nom Nom
Post by: HLD_Prophecy on January 03, 2019, 01:15:57 pm
:nod: Sounds like fun to me!

I'll see you in the Immaterium...  :yes:  Try your hammer against the "anvil" of my planned Warsphere/Demiurg combo...

EDIT: did I mention I am prejudiced against space elves?  :lol:
Title: Re: BFG: Armada II - Nom Nom Space Cathedral Nom Nom Nom
Post by: HLD_Prophecy on January 03, 2019, 05:27:20 pm
Incidentally, once the beta comes out can we make sure that any campaign discussion be kept to spoiler tags?

For everyone in general, but I in particular am waiting on the campaign until the full release.  :)
Title: Re: BFG: Armada II - Nom Nom Space Cathedral Nom Nom Nom
Post by: HLD_Prophecy on January 04, 2019, 12:36:21 pm
Beta not until January 15.   :blah: School starts around then, gaming will probably have to wait for the weekend...
Title: Re: BFG: Armada II - Nom Nom Space Cathedral Nom Nom Nom
Post by: 0rph3u5 on January 06, 2019, 09:39:50 am
EDIT: did I mention I am prejudiced against space elves?  :lol:

Children of Iyanden,
look upon the Light of Asuryan and see that our Craftworld once again is a beacon of hope to all Aeldari,
look upon the gathered hosts of your Craftworld and recognize its Heroes both living and dead.

We go and march forth to answer the call of Khaine today.
Not for conquest or vengence, but as our duty to our kin,
such is our noblest of destinies.

My warriors,
In this hour before blades fall and blood is shed, look upon your Iyanden. Hold its image close to your hearts when you walk in Khaine's shadow and remember always:

Care not for the hatred of Mon'keigh, fear not the savagery of the Ork, listen not the nothingness T'au pass as wisdom.
For we stand tested through history, like none other.

Break not at the madness of the Great Enemy, strike at the ethernal hunger of the Great Devourer, thwart the designs of the accursed Necron'Tyr.
For we walk under the signs of prophecy.

Don your Warmasks, warriors!
Victory will be ours by nightfall.


- Autarch Aeris Ebonsword

(slightly altered from the RPG section of the last WH40k campaign I played - not mention that victory was not my mine, not even "by nightfall")

--- How can you be prejudiced against that??? :D



re: spoiler tags:
Agreed.

re: Beta Date:
Was kinda expecting something along the line. The Tales of Vesperia remaster is out the weekend before, going to see how to juggle that.
Title: Re: BFG: Armada II - Nom Nom Space Cathedral Nom Nom Nom
Post by: HLD_Prophecy on January 06, 2019, 02:02:03 pm
How could I not be prejudiced when they diss my Tau and Necron bois like that?  :lol:  :D

Lol in all seriousness it's mostly the Dark Eldar I have issues with. Mostly.
Title: Re: BFG: Armada II - Nom Nom Space Cathedral Nom Nom Nom
Post by: HLD_Prophecy on January 09, 2019, 10:07:51 am
'ey, can someone explain something to me? I've never understood how Eldar are broken up.

What is the difference between: Eldar, Aeldari, matt ward, Drukhari, Asuryani, Corsairs, Craftworld Eldar, Exodites, Harlequins? This probably sounds incredibly uneducated to someone familiar, but I have only a loose grip on these terms and keep hearing them thrown around in reference to the Eldar.
Title: Re: BFG: Armada II - Nom Nom Space Cathedral Nom Nom Nom
Post by: Aesaar on January 09, 2019, 01:27:19 pm
Aeldari is the new, trademarkable name GW invented for the Eldar when 8th edition 40k released in mid-2017.  Drukhari is the same thing for Dark Eldar.

Asuryani refers to Asuryan, the chief deity of the Eldar pantheon.  Barring only a few exceptions, the whole pantheon was consumed by Slaanesh, according to Eldar legend.  It's the name for the Eldar who live on the Craftworlds, which are planetoid-sized cityships.  They follow a very rigid lifestyle designed to focus their minds so they don't fall prey to the behaviors that led to the Fall.  They're what you think when you say Eldar, but they're not representative of pre-Fall Eldar civilization and they're not the majority of living Eldar.

Corsairs are generally the outcasts from the Craftworlds, who either aren't willing or able to follow the Craftworld's code of behavior or committed crimes that merit exile.  When those exiles band together, you get corsair fleets.

Dark Eldar are the real remnant of the old Eldar empire, and they represent the vast majority of living Eldar.  They live in a giant city in the webway (a network of stable subspace tunnels, not the Warp but not realspace) called Commoragh.  They're absolutely ****ed up, but don't really give a **** about what goes on in realspace.  They leave the webway for slaves and not much else.  They don't get along with anyone else, including other Eldar.

Exodites are those Eldar who lived on planets on the very edges of the old Eldar empire, and because of that, those colonies survived the Fall.  Asuryani tend to be very, very, very protective of them.

Harlequins are completely separate from the rest of the Eldar.  Their primary job is the maintenance and protection of the Black Library, a small Craftworld in the Webway that houses all the Eldar knowledge about Chaos.  They're servants of Cegorach, the Laughing God, the only Eldar god to have escaped the birth of Slaanesh (again, according to Eldar legend.  Whether there's any truth to it is ambiguous).

Dark Eldar are the biggest assholes in the galaxy, but all Eldar are assholes to some degree.  To the Eldar, non-Eldar life is worth slightly more than nothing.  They don't care about anyone else except in how they can be used as decoys, shields, or weapons.
Title: Re: BFG: Armada II - Nom Nom Space Cathedral Nom Nom Nom
Post by: HLD_Prophecy on January 09, 2019, 01:37:32 pm
Interesting, thanks for the explanation!

So the Harlequins plan to get Cegorach back into the game as a twist/endgame plan, maybe faster/ more effective at taking out Slaanesh than the Craftworlders? Or am I mistaken
Title: Re: BFG: Armada II - Nom Nom Space Cathedral Nom Nom Nom
Post by: Thaeris on January 09, 2019, 01:45:39 pm
How often has the lore around the Harlequins changed? What I recall reading about them quite some time back somewhat matched the description you gave to the Exodites, but the new explanation is, well, new to me. More precisely, I recall reading that the Harlequins were independent from the Craftworlds, and were basically somewhat of primitive Eldar settlers on various planets.
Title: Re: BFG: Armada II - Nom Nom Space Cathedral Nom Nom Nom
Post by: Aesaar on January 09, 2019, 10:49:43 pm
HLD_Prophecy: Cegorach is in the game as much as he's going to be.  The whole "taking out Slaanesh" thing is more of an Ynnari thing.

Oh yeah, the Ynnari.  They're a very small group of Eldar (composed of members from all the other groups) who believe that by awakening/resurrecting the Eldar god of the dead, Ynnead, they can kill Slaanesh and thereby open up the possibility of establishing a new Eldar empire.  The idea is that if they can combine all the souls housed in each Craftworld's Infinity Circuit, they can create a semi-physical warp power somewhat like what the Emperor's become (a connection the lore doesn't explicitly make, but it's an interesting notion).   They have managed to create an Avatar, so they're getting somewhere.

They're the ones who aided in the resurrection of Roboute Guilliman, believing that humanity is a better tool against Chaos if there's an unambiguous inheritor of the Emperor's mantle leading the Imperium.

Thaeris: To my knowledge, this has been Harlequin lore since they were first introduced in 2nd edition.
Title: Re: BFG: Armada II - Nom Nom Space Cathedral Nom Nom Nom
Post by: HLD_Prophecy on January 10, 2019, 06:20:22 am
Aha, I was confusing harlequins with ynnari. I thought harlequins were trying to resurrect Cegorach by sort of reversing the Slaanesh event, gathering enough souls.  :p so that's Ynnead?
Title: Re: BFG: Armada II - Nom Nom Space Cathedral Nom Nom Nom
Post by: 0rph3u5 on January 10, 2019, 07:29:49 am
So the Harlequins plan to get Cegorach back into the game as a twist/endgame plan, maybe faster/ more effective at taking out Slaanesh than the Craftworlders? Or am I mistaken

The Harlequins play a significant role in the recent emergence of Ynnead. Which to be precise does not exist as god yet, but his avatar is running around and the Yvraine as his high priestess does some borderline miracles on occasion (like resurrecting people without all the dark/negative energy cost of the Drukhari Haemunculi or the divine intervention that Chaos Champions enjoy on occasion).

Summary is that,

a) There has been a sealed tome in the Black Libary that has been gradually unsealing as the 41st Millenium drew to a close. The Shadowseers (Harlequin specialist psykers) from various Masques (basically Harlequin Factions) have read it and then split up. Speculation is that said book contains a master plan to defeat Chaos.

b) One Masque has been supporting Eldrad Ulthran of Craftworld Ulthwé (they are big on prophecies, even by Asuryani standards) in his efforts to bring about the birth Ynnead earlier than the prophecy actually said (tl;dr: All Aeldari would have had to die first for the new god to be born and do battle with Chaos). That attempt backfired because the Imperial Inquisition got wind of the psykic buildup from the ritual that Eldrath was preparing and send a Space Marine Killteam to stop it. Despite being a backfire, this might actually accelerated the timetable on Ynnead's emergence.

c) Other Masques got involved in the plots surrounding the Gate of Khaine in Commorragh, the Capital of the Drukhari. The Gate of Khaine basically connects Commorragh to the Warp now, and as per now the only reason the Chaos Daemons haven't overun Commoragh yet is because the Overlord Vect keeps dumping the Webway-pocket universes of his rivals in their path (they didn't elevate him to a Dark Muse for nothing). The breaking of the seal on the Gate of Khaine conicided (causation unclear) with the death of the Yvraine and her subsequent rebirth.

d) Then there is the whole Kelmon's Last Prophecy-story; Kelmon Firesight was the chief Farseer of Craftworld Iyanden (the necromancy people) and responsible for the exile of Prince Yriel, but during the Tyranid Invasion of Iyanden Kelmon was unable to cast a prophecy that would save the Craftworld. Then a Harlequin Shadowseer, by name the same that hangs around the principals of the Gathering Storm-story arc later, steps up to him, snaps one of the prophetic runes in half and suddenly he is able to fortell a path out of the crisis, which involves Yriel coming back and picking up the Spear of Twilight... Now after the Gathering Storm, when Yriel died and was resurrected by the Ynnari, and the Spear of Twilight having been revealed to be a key Ynnari artifact, there is a bit of an open question how much that was preplanned.


As for Cegorach's presence, he is been here and there. However he is described as not being confrontational when it comes to his ability to survive the Slaanesh.

For one, he is basically part of all Harlequins, expect the Solitaire(s), as he protects their souls from going to Slaanesh when the Harlequins die (Craftworlders and Corsairs use Soulstones for that, the Exodites are linked with their World Spirits to the same effect, and among the Drukhari, if you are not powerful enough to affort being physcially resurrected again, you are too small time for anyone to care anyway). There is also some speculation regarding the identiy of various trickster figures, like the being Lady Malys, a principal rival of Vect, bargained her current heart and allegeded prophetic powers from. Even more since the C'Tan (basically the Necron Gods) The Trickster is MIA since the revision of the Necron fluff, which gave them more small scale characters. Cegorach usually ranks high among the usual suspects, along with the Chaos God Tzeentch and the Daemon known as the Masque of Slaanesh.

There used to be also Harlequin Avatar in the fluff but more recent iterations of the Harlequins have very blurred the lines in terms of personal idenity with regards to individual Harlequins. They are now more the role they play in their performances (and to the Harlequins everything is a performance) instead of distinct characters - it's very "taking the Method to a ridiculous degree". As such it is unclear if Cegorach actually physically walks around somewhere, but the Troupe Leaders are supposed to represent him.

EDIT:
ps. It is also noteworth that technically the Aeldari Gods Khaine and Isha are still around ... in a way.

Khaine was shatted into pieces by Slaanesh. The pieces became the Avatars of Khaine that accompany Asuryani armys as they go to war. They also have an overwhelming pyskic presence that drives all Aeldari into a murderous rage, even through the discipline of the Path. (The "broken into pieces"-part connects to some deep lore about the Aeldari Phoenix Lords and how they are immortal as gestalt beings, and that Arhra, by account of his Incubi followers "was shattered and absorbed" sometime that must be around M31 but is back in M41)

Isha is said to be a captive of the Chaos God Nurgle, who swept her up from Slaanesh because she is the Godess of Childbirth, Harvest, Healing and Motherhood. Nurgle is described as using her as part of his experiments to create the perfect plague. (That does sound like a story from Fantasy but it's been the Chaos Daemons' Codex for a while now)

Dark Eldar are the real remnant of the old Eldar empire, and they represent the vast majority of living Eldar.  They live in a giant city in the webway (a network of stable subspace tunnels, not the Warp but not realspace) called Commoragh.  They're absolutely ****ed up, but don't really give a **** about what goes on in realspace.  They leave the webway for slaves and not much else.  They don't get along with anyone else, including other Eldar.

In recent versions, the Druhkari actually cooperated more with their Craftworld kin - often mediated by the Harlequins.
They have been written to have send forces to help with Tyranid Invasion of Iyanden (because the Haemunculi were curious about Asuryani necromancy) and joined forces with Biel-Tan and Iyanden on the world known to the Imperium as Valedor, which was destroyed by planetkiller from Vect's personal arsenal (which he only surrendered to other Aledari because it required psyker to fire, and Vect doesn't have those).

But yeah, Drukhari soceity is basically assembly of Super Villians and wanna-be Super Villians constantly back-stabbing each other, when they are not out raiding realspace in order to quite literally gain one more day of existence by inflicting suffering upon others (this kind of empathic vampirism is basically all that is left of the psykic abilities).

How often has the lore around the Harlequins changed? What I recall reading about them quite some time back somewhat matched the description you gave to the Exodites, but the new explanation is, well, new to me. More precisely, I recall reading that the Harlequins were independent from the Craftworlds, and were basically somewhat of primitive Eldar settlers on various planets.

Harlequin fluff was not majorly changed, it has slightly expaned when the Harlequins got their own Codex in 7th Edition and were upgraded from "single squad as option for an Elite slot of a Craftworld Army" to "army in their own right". Although army might be stretching the definition a bit, still one of smallest books in terms of options.

The whole endgame "sealed tome with an endgame plan" is part of the 7th Edition additions.
Title: Re: BFG: Armada II - Nom Nom Space Cathedral Nom Nom Nom
Post by: HLD_Prophecy on January 11, 2019, 09:08:11 am

first'ed!  :D

Really tho, the epic scale and vibe of this. Put simply, I am not a Warhammer fan. I generally avoid it. Too messy. And yet this is my most anticipated game of 2019.  :lol:
Title: Re: BFG: Armada II - Nom Nom Space Cathedral Nom Nom Nom
Post by: HLD_Prophecy on January 14, 2019, 08:58:56 pm
Enjoy the beta tomorrow! :D
Title: Re: BFG: Armada II - Nom Nom Space Cathedral Nom Nom Nom
Post by: 0rph3u5 on January 16, 2019, 02:43:56 pm
EDIT: Forget what I said; appearently on some systems, including mine, loading in the cinematics doesn't work for the Beta build; which accounts for the campaign crashing on me.

+++Inquisitorial Report+++
+++Subject: Battlefleet Gothic Armada II+++
+++Keyword: Beta 2+++

+++Classification: Hereticum extremis+++
+++The Emperor Protects+++

Reporting completion of both campaign segments marked for Beta Testing by the Acolytes of the Holy Order of Preordering.

Imperial campaign, despite mechanics to infuse it with critical momentum, does not exceed expectation. Imperial forces just not sufficently interesting, potential for diversification of strategems could not applied at this scale.

Xenos, mark Necron, campaign appears easier prospect at first, however may require more elaborate choices as scale expands.

Xenos, mark Tyranids, campaign remains unavalible.

Multiplayer elements reveal themselves to be improved. Various adjustments to the mechanics and balance seem to have evened the playing field.
There remain problems with maintaining communications. Request immideate investigation of a possible relation to ''rage quitting''-phenomenon.

May Imperial Justice Account In All Balance.

Hidden Text: plain english • Show
Okay, I am done with the single player offering of the Beta - or I think I am; The campaign opens up to a second sector but moving ships there tends to crash the game on my end.
So far, aside from a scriped mission in the beginning the campaign consistest of skrimishes at 1 CL plus escorts scale - which dragged everything out a bit (AI is fond of Silent Running) but wasn't too challanging. Despite the same-ness of the mission type it is marko-managing that infuses it with great variety, as you cannot deploy the same fleets over and over.

The campaign uses an escalation mechanic, called Urgency, to keep you moving - besides the gradual build-up of enemy forces. Each enemy faction also has a threat level per sector, which indicates how likely they are to be aggressive in that sector. Enemy attacks are telegraphed a turn in advance, so you don't run the risk of being caught totally unaware.

The Imperium actually has a better start with 3 Fleets (1 IN, 1 AdMech, 1 SM) and more mobile ships (3 jumps per turn) but also faces much toughter opposition as the inital fleets are roughtly equal in power at normal difficulty. The Necrons get 2 fleets with 2 jumps per turn, but in turn individual fleets seem have a slightl leg-up in terms of points. On the campaign scale avalible in the Beta, I don't think the ultimate way how these campaigns will differ is represented; I didn't unlock anything beyond the CA tonnage for example.

Fleets can be reinforced or created from Shipyards, which have their own output restrictions per turn. Each fleet gets a flagship and an Admiral which defines the abilites and upgrades similar to what you pick in Multiplayer. If a Fleet's flagship is destroyed, that Admiral is killed and you have to get a new one - unless it is your Faction Leader whose elimination is campaign failstate.

Besides fleet management you are also expected to keep an eye on your income (for new ships, repairs and upkeep) from the systems you hold. Income can of course be expanded by investing ressources, however updrages only unlock once a system has been help long enough. In absence of Fleets you can deploy defense from Mines to Stations (one each) per system; They don't suffice to stop an attack but are just the leg-up you might need to minimze the ammount of Fleets held up by a defensive posture.

In addition to the basic ressource management, you also gain Reknown which levels your forces globally: Each level of Reknown unlocks a point to be spend on global upgrades, such as armour piercing munitions or improved turn rates. Reknown also unlocks additional fleets and larger ships to build (if you have shipyard that can build them.)


Multiplayer seems to be greatly improved balance-wise. The reign of the Twin Falling Moons has come to end, for example. There is still some stuff in there that seems a bit OP, but maybe that is just subjective.
Technically there are still some issues, but less than before. I am pretty sure the most common reason why it keeps crashing on me is because of rage quitting - the moments that happens generally coincide with battle being very one sided or repeat encounters with the same players due to the shallow player pool.
[/s]
Title: Re: BFG: Armada II - Nom Nom Space Cathedral Nom Nom Nom
Post by: HLD_Prophecy on January 16, 2019, 06:58:18 pm
Looking for help with Tau Merchant Fleet: Somewhat stymied by widely varying speeds/performances among vessels, lol. Very new to the whole thing, so there's that. Found amusingly enough that Demiurgs are actually quite useful to boost Warspheres into battle: 'spheres get pushed faster than they fly and are rather resilient, ergo I was able to keep my sphere moving along with a helpful ram from a Bastion, at only slight damage cost to the Kroot vessel.  :lol:

Would like beginner-friendly advice on welding a disparate armed convoy into a capable fighting force when all I have is lore and a sad lack of meta knowledge.  :D  Dhows were the easiest to use by far, did the most with them. Any advice on making the most of Dhows?
Title: Re: BFG: Armada II - Nom Nom Space Cathedral Nom Nom Nom
Post by: crizza on January 17, 2019, 05:13:55 am
Back in BFG 1, convoy mission were either too kill a certain number of enemy convoys or get a certain number of your own through.
Escorting my own, I had them move along the edge of the map, while my own forces screened them.
Issue here: The AI goes straight for them, so having them move in concert with the rest of my ships proved useless.
In the end I upgraded them, to burn longer and faster, so it was just a speed race: Would the enemy be able to kill enough ships, before they reached the other side of the map?
Also I think grouped ships moved at the same speed?
And the thing with Tau is: Kroot Warspheres are slow in 40k backround.
Title: Re: BFG: Armada II - Nom Nom Space Cathedral Nom Nom Nom
Post by: 0rph3u5 on January 17, 2019, 06:26:48 am
I don't know what you are on about with Convoy Mission, crizza - The T'au Merchant Fleet is one of the two T'au Factions for Multiplayer (the other being the Protector Fleet). The division exists to distinguish between the original line of T'au ships/models and the Forgeworld ones (which were in BFG:A1 as DLC). Both have access to non-T'au Auxiliaries in form of the Nicassar Dhow (Escort), the Demiurge Bastion (CA), Bastion Stronghold (BB) and Kroot Warsphere (BB).



The Warsphere is filling in to cover the overwise poor perfomance the T'au have when it comes to being boarded and boarding themselves (T'au Merchant ships have the "Poor Troop Efficency" and "No Lighting Strike" attributes; while the Warsphere has both "Good Troop Efficency" and "Brutal [Lighting] Strike" as well as the ability to perform the regular boarding action at 360° instead of 90° of each side). Boarders are generally pretty effective if you can deliver them to anything but Space Marine, Ork and Tyranid ships - esspecially against Aeldari Corsairs and AdMech whose Troop Efficency is likewise "Poor": The crew damage suffered cannot be reversed and with each step enemy cooldowns get longer.

The Demiurge Ships are a bit difficult to evaluate because they have more overlap with normal Merchant Fleet ships, but they seem to be geared towards counter attacking - looking at that they irgnore asteroid damage and the set-up time for the Cutting beam, as well as their armor stats. They are also covering your lack of Lighting Strike and perform better when boarding.

T'au generally, and Merchants esspecially, seem to be geared towards a "letting them come"-approach that leverages the early detection from their Escorts to be proactive when it comes to choosing the circumstances of an engagement.
Title: Re: BFG: Armada II - Nom Nom Space Cathedral Nom Nom Nom
Post by: HLD_Prophecy on January 17, 2019, 09:03:29 am
So, leverage force multipliers. Use early detection. Make them come to you, dictate the terms of engagement.  :nod: Seems like my woes were in part due to charging them head-on.  :lol: Anything else I should know? How can I use the Dhow as a more effective Escort? It's more expensive than the Orca/Messenger, what is it getting in return?
Title: Re: BFG: Armada II - Nom Nom Space Cathedral Nom Nom Nom
Post by: crizza on January 17, 2019, 09:29:06 am
I don't know what you are on about with Convoy Mission, crizza - The T'au Merchant Fleet is one of the two T'au Factions for Multiplayer (the other being the Protector Fleet). The division exists to distinguish between the original line of T'au ships/models and the Forgeworld ones (which were in BFG:A1 as DLC). Both have access to non-T'au Auxiliaries in form of the Nicassar Drow (Escort), the Demiurge Bastion (CA), Bastion Stronghold (BB) and Kroot Warsphere (BB).

Oh, well, dunno what I was thinking there^^
And yet, despite this strange episode, I'm pretty firm lorewise^^
Title: Re: BFG: Armada II - Nom Nom Space Cathedral Nom Nom Nom
Post by: HLD_Prophecy on January 17, 2019, 09:39:27 am
Just a mix up, no harm done!  :) But yeah, when I said "convoy" I was thinking in terms of how the T'au Merchant Fleet is basically an armed convoy, both strategy and lore-wise, but as in how to use that as a battle fleet in multiplayer as opposed to convoy escort missions proper. Thanks guys!

That's what I like about the Tau Merchant faction, and why along with the Necrons they were my most anticipated faction: I root for the "underdog" I like making do with a fleet that shouldn't really be out there at all, a fleet designed for modest convoy/exploration duties, not front line battles.  :cool:
Title: Re: BFG: Armada II - Nom Nom Space Cathedral Nom Nom Nom
Post by: 0rph3u5 on January 17, 2019, 11:46:10 am
It's more expensive than the Orca/Messenger, what is it getting in return?

The Dhow has twice the Shields of other MT Escorts and its broadside Railguns are much more powerful than the rest of MT escorts, but with a range trade-off. It also gets a cooldown reduction on Repairs/Call to Arms/Scanner. And, for some reason, it has access to the Mon'Ka tactic, meaning it can get a crit boost from using the Marked-condition applied by Scanner.

It's only got 4 troops and 3 defense turrets, so I wouldn't recommend it as a foward observer - too vurnable to boarding or fighters. But if the Necron campaign is teaching me anything, its not to discount the damage Escorts can do over time.
Title: Re: BFG: Armada II - Nom Nom Space Cathedral Nom Nom Nom
Post by: HLD_Prophecy on January 17, 2019, 02:56:40 pm
So they're more firepower supplements, rather than light vision scouts? Should I use different Tau escorts to get that vision I need?
Title: Re: BFG: Armada II - Nom Nom Space Cathedral Nom Nom Nom
Post by: 0rph3u5 on January 20, 2019, 09:24:59 am
This is where I run out knowledge on T'Au, as I have yet to actually play them... Switched to Drukhari this weekend after getting the MWJ unlocks for Asuryani and Corsairs, and considering how different they play from the standard line engagement of the game (its all hit and run; but with different flavours).

EDIT: "Finish your setences, 0rph3u5!"

... considering how different what I play is from standard line engangement, I am not sure I can offer any more on subject at this time.
Title: Re: BFG: Armada II - Nom Nom Space Cathedral Nom Nom Nom
Post by: HLD_Prophecy on January 21, 2019, 10:34:05 am
Seems like several of the merchant ships are having me choose between ion cannons or railguns, more or less. Typically two patterns of the same ship model, one will have better railguns vs. the other which will have better ion. What's the difference?
Title: Re: BFG: Armada II - Nom Nom Space Cathedral Nom Nom Nom
Post by: 0rph3u5 on January 21, 2019, 06:08:00 pm
Looking at the stats in the fleet builder suggests that Railguns vs. Ions is propably going to come down to the upgrades you unlock and set before the match. As a general rule Railguns use normal accuarcy scale for the T'Au (which is 80/60/40/20/0), while Ions always hit*. *Exceptions apply against ships with Holofields or upgrades that apply accuary debuffs.

For example, one of base unlocks gives your Flagship an increase in Ion cannon range (Attuned Lense Coating), while another, Targeting Coordinator, bumbs your Escorts' Railguns to a better accurary scale (85/70/55/40/25) if they are in "Lock On"-stance (which also ups for max range and applies another accuary boost, no idea if that stacks).
If you take these two, your Flagship should have Ions but your escorts should be armed with Railguns - then you can have your Flagship use the "Lock On" for enemies that can debuff accuracy even for 100%-percent weapons (Corsairs, Asuryani) or ships you need to keep at range with Engine crits** (e.g. Orkz), but for targets that engage you at equal range (e.g. Imperial Navy) you can go with "Reload" or "Brace for Impact". For your Escorts you have them cylce from "Silent Running" in the early game (hiding your numbers/scouting) back to "Lock On" once the Line Ships have engaged for long range fire support (instead of keeping them at "Silent Running" for scout and capture duties).

** Always remember your subsystem targeting.

Of course this should change if you have futher unlocks ... the inital unlocks for both T'Au fleet don't seem to be giving much to regular Line Ships...
Title: Re: BFG: Armada II - Nom Nom Space Cathedral Nom Nom Nom
Post by: HLD_Prophecy on January 23, 2019, 03:28:32 pm
Is there someone with the lore knowledge to explain Tau fleet lore/customs/idioms/language/naming to me? I know that could be a very exhaustive rundown, but I'm trying to get a feel for what my Merchant Fleet is telling me.  :p  I'm finding the Merchants a lot of fun when played right, but I'd like to get a better feel for what I'm doing/how to name what I'm doing.

I'm pretty sure that the Air Caste is responsible for the Fleet - is that what the prefix "kor" in front of many phrases/names means? Is everyone in the Fleet Air Caste? Why do they mention "fire" when boarding? Who are these people mentioned "teachings of" as in "honor the teachings of ???" and "??? teachings guide our fire"? What is "kor'el" and "kor'o"? How are Tau ships named, why do they have three/four parts to their name? Why are the ship class names like "Gal'leath" sometimes in the name and sometimes not?  :confused: Where do the names for different ship patterns come from, and why does "Vash'ya" appear as a pattern for more than one class? What is a "sept"? What is korvattra and where does the term kororvesh come into it? Is korvattra the merchant fleet and kororvesh the Protector Fleet?

Sorry for the probable complete mangling of Tau terms/concepts. Noob here stumbling my way around lore of a faction I've never investigated so I'm basically asking everything at once, sorry!  :D
Title: Re: BFG: Armada II - Nom Nom Space Cathedral Nom Nom Nom
Post by: crizza on January 23, 2019, 04:43:09 pm
So... since you play Tau merchant fleet, the Air caste (Kor) operates the ships, while the Water Caste(Por) do the actual trading stuff.
Considering boarding, this is most likely conducted by the Warrior/Fire Caste (Shas).
The language is rather... complicated.
Kor'O would means he is an Admiral  of the Air Caste, while Kor'el is Captain, while a Sept is a planetary system.
As an example:
Shas'O Vior'la Shovah Kais Mont'yr:
Shas - The individual is a member of the Fire Caste...
O - ...who is a high-ranking Commander and hero...
 Vior'la - ...who comes from the Sept of Vior'la...
and has a personal name translated as being far-sighted (Shovah), skilled (Kais), and having seen many battles (Mont'yr, meaning "blooded"). Copy pasted this^^
Korvattra is the whole Tau fleet, military and merchant fleet combined.
I don't know the term korrovesh, but Kor'ves is a tau drone :D
Gal'leath is the name of a Tau battleship class, while Vash'ya is a sept and also means to focus on more than one thing.
Title: Re: BFG: Armada II - Nom Nom Space Cathedral Nom Nom Nom
Post by: Scotty on January 23, 2019, 06:52:44 pm
Is there someone with the lore knowledge to explain Tau fleet lore/customs/idioms/language/naming to me? I know that could be a very exhaustive rundown, but I'm trying to get a feel for what my Merchant Fleet is telling me.  :p  I'm finding the Merchants a lot of fun when played right, but I'd like to get a better feel for what I'm doing/how to name what I'm doing.

I'm pretty sure that the Air Caste is responsible for the Fleet - is that what the prefix "kor" in front of many phrases/names means? Is everyone in the Fleet Air Caste? Why do they mention "fire" when boarding? Who are these people mentioned "teachings of" as in "honor the teachings of ???" and "??? teachings guide our fire"? What is "kor'el" and "kor'o"? How are Tau ships named, why do they have three/four parts to their name? Why are the ship class names like "Gal'leath" sometimes in the name and sometimes not?  :confused: Where do the names for different ship patterns come from, and why does "Vash'ya" appear as a pattern for more than one class? What is a "sept"? What is korvattra and where does the term kororvesh come into it? Is korvattra the merchant fleet and kororvesh the Protector Fleet?

Sorry for the probable complete mangling of Tau terms/concepts. Noob here stumbling my way around lore of a faction I've never investigated so I'm basically asking everything at once, sorry!  :D

T'au society is split into four castes.  The two that will end up in fleet combat most frequently will be the Air (navy) and Fire (marines/infantry).  The T'au name for the Air caste is "Kor".  The T'au name for the Fire caste is "Shas".  When you do anything with boarding or marines, it's the Fire caste engaging, hence the mentions to fire.

T'au names are based partially on their rank, which is a combination of their caste and their position within the caste.  The lowest rank is "la", the next is "ui", then you get officer equivalent at "vre", field officer at "el", and finally command officer at "o".  Then the planet/sept they were born to, and then finally a given name.  So, a gunner's mate on a T'au ship might be "Kor'la Dal'yth Ry'lai" or somesuch.  Liberal use of apostrophes encouraged.

There are two major (nigh revered) tactical doctrines to the T'au, those being "Mont'ka" and "Kauyon".  Mont'ka is the way of the decisive strike, traditionally delivered with great flexibility and favoring maneuverability to hit the enemy's weakest point with the most firepower.  Kauyon is the way of the patient hunter, and is more along the lines of prepared positions and engineered deception to take an enemy by surprised.

That is to say, Mont'ka is getting in close and hitting a cruiser or battleship with crippling firepower and then disengaging to do it again when the enemy moves to counter; while Kauyon is sitting in a gas cloud under silent running until the enemy flotilla closes to point blank and then crippling an enemy in the first volley.  So if you hear "honor the teachings of Mont'ka" when you make a move with some frigates, that's why.

A Sept is basically a T'au sub-state, typically centered around a planet on which it is based.  There are half a dozen major Septs and a few dozen minor ones.  The major septs are: T'au (homeworld), T'au'n (first colony), Vior'la, Dal'yth, Sa'cea, Bork'an, Fal'shia, and D'yanoi.  A T'au's sept is so much a part of their identity that it is a part of their name.

Gal'leath is a battleship, but more specifically a ship that was not initially designed for combat.  Imperials call them "Explorer" class vessels because of that.

Kor'vattra is literally just the entire T'au air caste (and by extension the T'au fleet).  Kor'or'vesh is roughly "battlegroup" or "armada" and is a smaller group of vessels.
Title: Re: BFG: Armada II - Nom Nom Space Cathedral Nom Nom Nom
Post by: HLD_Prophecy on January 23, 2019, 07:23:35 pm
So "Honor the teachings of Vior'la" is a reference to the mentality/teachings of their sept? Cool!

So, are vessels given individual names in the vein of persons, hence the multiple parts to a name when I click on my ships? Or does it differ?

Thanks guys, sounds like a complex society where names mean a lot, lots of respect/honor for position/heritage/teaching. This is pretty darn neat.  :nod:
Title: Re: BFG: Armada II - Nom Nom Space Cathedral Nom Nom Nom
Post by: Scotty on January 23, 2019, 07:28:02 pm
T'au Septs usually carry with them a reputation, and Vior'la's reputation is very in line with Mont'ka.  They are viewed as aggressive, of fiery temperament, and traditionally produce the most aggressive and skilled members of the Fire caste thanks to what is largely regarded as the best fire caste academy in T'au space.  It is basically T'au West Point if West Point were the pride of literally the entire planet.
Title: Re: BFG: Armada II - Nom Nom Space Cathedral Nom Nom Nom
Post by: 0rph3u5 on January 24, 2019, 10:35:15 am
T'au society is split into four castes.  The two that will end up in fleet combat most frequently will be the Air (navy) and Fire (marines/infantry).  The T'au name for the Air caste is "Kor".  The T'au name for the Fire caste is "Shas".  When you do anything with boarding or marines, it's the Fire caste engaging, hence the mentions to fire.

You forgot about the Ethereals...

Basically, Ethereals stand outside of the T'Au Caste System and are the "benevolent" dictators of the T'Au Empire. They command the undying loyality and strict obedience of all T'Au.

Ethereal names all start with the syllable "Aun"

T'au Septs usually carry with them a reputation, and Vior'la's reputation is very in line with Mont'ka.  They are viewed as aggressive, of fiery temperament, and traditionally produce the most aggressive and skilled members of the Fire caste thanks to what is largely regarded as the best fire caste academy in T'au space.  It is basically T'au West Point if West Point were the pride of literally the entire planet.

Vior'la is also the point of origin for the off-shoot of the T'Au Empire known as the Farsight Enclaves. They are basically the T'Au Empire if no Ethereals were in charge.

Their leader, known as Commander Farsight or O'Shovah, has begun to suspect that the rule of the Ethereals is not as straight foward as advertised; that the "Greater Good" the T'Au aspire to is a lie (Hi, Grimdark). He has also outlived the normal lifespan of a Fire Caste T'Au and is quite possibly under the influcence of an alien force.
Despite being a renegade, and his capturing being ordered by the Ethereals, Farsight does command great respect across the entire Fire Caste.
Title: Re: BFG: Armada II - Nom Nom Space Cathedral Nom Nom Nom
Post by: 0rph3u5 on January 24, 2019, 11:56:07 am
Dinner's served

(https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/950724705420229348/80C8D7C328C08AEB43826C845B1FF0423D7769CB/)



... yeah, Full Version is live
Title: Re: BFG: Armada II - Nom Nom Space Cathedral Nom Nom Nom
Post by: Scotty on January 24, 2019, 06:17:25 pm
T'au society is split into four castes.  The two that will end up in fleet combat most frequently will be the Air (navy) and Fire (marines/infantry).  The T'au name for the Air caste is "Kor".  The T'au name for the Fire caste is "Shas".  When you do anything with boarding or marines, it's the Fire caste engaging, hence the mentions to fire.

You forgot about the Ethereals...

Basically, Ethereals stand outside of the T'Au Caste System and are the "benevolent" dictators of the T'Au Empire. They command the undying loyality and strict obedience of all T'Au.

Ethereal names all start with the syllable "Aun"

T'au Septs usually carry with them a reputation, and Vior'la's reputation is very in line with Mont'ka.  They are viewed as aggressive, of fiery temperament, and traditionally produce the most aggressive and skilled members of the Fire caste thanks to what is largely regarded as the best fire caste academy in T'au space.  It is basically T'au West Point if West Point were the pride of literally the entire planet.

Vior'la is also the point of origin for the off-shoot of the T'Au Empire known as the Farsight Enclaves. They are basically the T'Au Empire if no Ethereals were in charge.

Their leader, known as Commander Farsight or O'Shovah, has begun to suspect that the rule of the Ethereals is not as straight foward as advertised; that the "Greater Good" the T'Au aspire to is a lie (Hi, Grimdark). He has also outlived the normal lifespan of a Fire Caste T'Au and is quite possibly under the influcence of an alien force.
Despite being a renegade, and his capturing being ordered by the Ethereals, Farsight does command great respect across the entire Fire Caste.

I didn't forget, I left them out deliberately. :P  Vior'la is less "point of origin for the Farsight Enclaves" than it is "where Commander Farsight is from".  He is very explicitly (but unknowingly to himself) kept youthful by a relic called the Dawn Blade.
Title: Re: BFG: Armada II - Nom Nom Space Cathedral Nom Nom Nom
Post by: 0rph3u5 on January 25, 2019, 12:27:16 pm
I didn't forget, I left them out deliberately. :P 

(https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/623/836/b5c.jpg)  :D
Title: Re: BFG: Armada II - Nom Nom Space Cathedral Nom Nom Nom
Post by: crizza on January 31, 2019, 09:28:59 am
So, as I'm currently playing through the campaign to defend his glorious empire, I noticed my IF Battle Barge is named "Shiel of Erebus", ok :shaking:
I enjoy the game, it is fun, but there are some nitpicks:

Fleet management is the biggest. As you progress though the single tonnage classes, you unlock heavier combatants. Naturally for me I want heavier ship classes, can't have spire run around in a measly Lunar-class cruiser. And here is the point: If there a two fleets in the same system, why do I have to scrap one or even more ships to make room? Why not including the option to send an experienced ship to a new fleet?
Nope, we send it back to the nearest Forgeworld to be broken up.

Formations... I'm doing just fine micromaniging the abilities of my ships. Trapping enemies in Stasis bombs and then giving them a massive barrage of Nova cannons, no big deal. Aligning torpedo paths of several ships to wreak havoc in an enemy fleet? Consider it done. But come on, my ships moving abreast?! For the opening shots I can live with that just fine, but once combat is raging, a staggered line would be awesome and this gets rather difficult if you try to micro that. Same goes for speed, a nifty little button saying "Ships will move at the speed of the slowest ship of the fleet" would be fine.

But overall, the game is awesome. Too bad playtime will go done once AC7 releases on Steam.
Title: Re: BFG: Armada II - Nom Nom Space Cathedral Nom Nom Nom
Post by: Aesaar on January 31, 2019, 09:37:04 am
I'm waiting for balance patches before playing through.  Lances are utter trash right now, what with the buffs to armor and massive increase in hitpoints across the board compared to beta 1.

And I really don't get why they encrypted the ship and weapon stats files.  They're already using an anti-cheat.  Let me mod my own game, ffs.
Title: Re: BFG: Armada II - Nom Nom Space Cathedral Nom Nom Nom
Post by: crizza on January 31, 2019, 10:07:05 am
The thing with the strange name for my Battle Barge sparked something in me.
So I'm working through the Lexicanum for names and the Battle Barge now goes under the name Hammer of Terra, a Battle Barge being destroyed during the Heresy at Phall.
Is anyone else doing useless things like that or is it just me?
Title: Re: BFG: Armada II - Nom Nom Space Cathedral Nom Nom Nom
Post by: HLD_Prophecy on February 18, 2019, 04:01:19 pm
Does anyone know of a good online storefront from the OOP METAL miniatures?

I know my chances are low, I'd have to shell out on eBay if I wanted to stock up...  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: BFG: Armada II - Nom Nom Space Cathedral Nom Nom Nom
Post by: Scotty on February 20, 2019, 12:19:49 am
Or just wait like a year for GW to re-release BFG like every other specialist game of the last three decades.
Title: Re: BFG: Armada II - Nom Nom Space Cathedral Nom Nom Nom
Post by: HLD_Prophecy on February 20, 2019, 11:55:37 am
Or just wait like a year for GW to re-release BFG like every other specialist game of the last three decades.

Fair enough.  :lol: