Hard Light Productions Forums
General FreeSpace => FreeSpace Discussion => Topic started by: Aardwolf on October 03, 2008, 08:52:17 pm
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We once believed that some day we might finally see the conclusion to the tale we loved so much--the tale of peace after years of hatred-driven conflict, the tale of unity after ages of distrust and ill-will, the tale of hope after despair and fear of more to come, the tale of acceptance after loss. It is a tale of a nameless hero who lived to save the home of his people, and of the countless others he had to watch die on his way to that final battle. A tale of ruthlessness, necessity, and integrity. Of the eventual end that meets those who thirst for power. Of how even the best of intentions and the noblest of motives can lead to painful consequences far outweighing the expected good. Of the conviction all sides have in war that they are doing what must be done, and of regret for the needless deaths of former friends. And a tale of renewed hope after what was lost seemed irrecoverable.
The remains of that great hope have decomposed and been spread throughout the remaining fan sites, and have fertilized the seedlings of mods, campaigns, total conversions, single missions, features, bugfixes, models, table edits, scripts, spinoffs, artwork, and dreams--and these seedlings in turn have grown, flourished, and sewn yet other new life around them.
There is nothing wrong with saying "Derek Smart" or "FreeSpace 3" (or any abbreviation thereof) in and of itself.
Derek Smart is just some schmuck who develops games, doesn't care what the existing community of a game likes, and happens to make games that are crap. His plans for the FreeSpace franchise were not agreeable to most of the members of the community, and that is probably not going to change. There are still some people who like his games, or at the very least think they have interesting premises (regardless of how well they were implemented (or poorly, as the case may be)). I, like most of the people who have voiced an opinion sufficiently loudly on this forum, am of the belief that a Derek Smart sequel to the game we so much love, FreeSpace 2, would probably be ****, that it would disappoint just about everyone in the community, and that it would likely doom the franchise. Nonetheless, invoking the name of Derek Smart is not quite the same as what would happen if anyone could actually figure out how to pronounce "Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn" correctly.
As for FS3...
We can't refuse to talk about the future. Whether you believe that future is FreeSpace 3 or not, shushing anyone who dares mention it is not the best way to go about our present.
Don't waste time thinking about what exactly :v: meant about the snippets they hinted at regarding FS3. It isn't even perfectly clear how well they had a sequel planned out, if at all. If an official sequel ever happens to be made, so be it. If it's good, we can go play it. If it's crap we still have FreeSpace 2 to play around with.
Don't go thinking that anything you make can be FreeSpace 3. You can make the best campaign ever made, use new ships and technologies, and take advantage of lots of new features, but it's not going to be FreeSpace 3.
Do think about what could happen next in the FreeSpace universe. About what you have seen in it. About what was hidden from you, and what happened there before you ever arrived. About what could have happened if things had gone slightly differently.
If someone mentions Derek Smart, it's fine to comment that you think most of his games suck, or that his plans for the FreeSpace franchise were inspired by Satan or some other evil bad guys, but telling the person never to use the dude's name on these forums is an absurd policy (whether official or otherwise). If someone wants to make a FreeSpace 3 or to bug :v: to hand over the archived plans for it, or simply asks why it doesn't exist, don't tell them to STFU and GTFO, just explain (or provide access to an explanation) what the situation is and provide some sense of just how much the issue has been discussed already.
We don't need more people acting like noobs and arguing over the old issues either, so don't just mention these things frivolously. If you have something new to say that nobody has considered, say it. Otherwise, there's no need to beat a dead horse. And don't troll with FS3/DS comments either. Trolls belong under bridges, not on forums.
I was going to post this in the Inferno board, in the SH Gargant thread (which is not really about the SH Gargant any more), but I figured it would be better here. And then I got carried away making part of it sound poetic. And then I decided to stick a bunch of advice in after the original gripefest. Also I rearranged the various parts of this post several times, so don't throw a fit if you don't like the paragraph order quite as much as I do.
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I do'nt quite agree with your suggestions about Derek Smart. As a newbie i find very amusing the whole discussion about him so far and in the end it's nothing but a joke IMO, that characterizes the community. :)
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Was there meant to be a point somewhere in there?
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Yes.
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I was curious about why fs3 got mentioned at all. As well as derek smart. You really should have just shoved this in that inferno thread like you said you were going too. All that needs to be known of derek smart is written in my sig.
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I agree with Aardwolf and I respect him for saying this.
It's not a huge deal, but we don't warn to turn it into some kind of cultish taboo that'll frighten off newcomers.
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I don't think anyone's flamed anyone for saying FS3, or Derek Smart. They're both just local superstitions that no one believes.
Derek Smart as you know, has a DSL cable plugged into his brain. Therefore it is unwise to say Derek Smart on the internet because he will appear out of nowhere and sue you.
Saying FS3 is just plain bad luck
I agree with Aardwolf and I respect him for saying this.
It's not a huge deal, but we don't warn to turn it into some kind of cultish taboo that'll frighten off newcomers.
I think it spawns curiosity more than anything else
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I don't think the makers of Freespace would remember what they first made up, like 7-10 years ago. I mean, exactly and all the interesting side-plots that go along. Only the core plot would have been archived.
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I want to flame you but I just can't be bothered.
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Yeah, High Max, I think you're being a bit naive.
Though I am curious --
and in that mission when you capture the ETAK technology and if you fail, lieutenant Rusk says to Command something like "we are taking that secret to hell with us. Believe me, you don't want to know". Don't
When does this occur? I don't think I've ever seen/heard it...
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and in that mission when you capture the ETAK technology and if you fail, lieutenant Rusk says to Command something like "we are taking that secret to hell with us. Believe me, you don't want to know". Don't
When does this occur? I don't think I've ever seen/heard it...
In Return to Babel. If the Qeb is destroyed before it can evacuate the crew of the Iceni, lieutenant Rusk of the Iceni will inform Command that self-destruct is thirty seconds away and there's no way another transport could make it in time. Command tries to persuade Rusk to transmit the ETAK specs as a means for the crew to redeem themselves, but he merely says "Sorry, Command. We're taking that secret to hell with us. Believe me. You don't want to know. Rusk out." before the Iceni explodes.
Derek Smart as you know, has a DSL cable plugged into his brain. Therefore it is unwise to say Derek Smart on the internet because he will appear out of nowhere and sue you.
But it is good to keep in mind that a long time ago DSmart decided to start demonstrating his superiority over us by not logging in to HLP. Which is actually most enjoyable.
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I can live without his input.
Srsly though, if people wanna go the "make a joke about F-S-three in order or mentioning d3r3k sm4rt being heretical. People can choose to react as "Ha-Ha" or not. Don't take it personally. If you do, use the report post button and we'll take a look into it using due process. :yes:
In HLP we trust, because we don't have much choice. :p
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Every time i try to use the report post button this :mad2: appears. Is it because i'm a newbie?
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Dunno mate, i'm the king of general discussion. The nation of Freespace General Discussion doesn't fall under my powah. Check with GFD mods :)
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;)
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I've received report notification e-mails from in here before, so the system seems to work in general. If you're having a specific problem with it, maybe one of the admins will be able to help you out.
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How young are you? You seem pretty sensitive.
I didn't say you were naive, I said you were being naive in this situation.
There is not likely much of an outline for the Shivans.
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ZOMFGWTF!!??!!ONE YOU GUYS R TALKING ABUOT FS# AND DSMRAT!!! STFU GTFO NE00WB!!!
*slits wrists*
Seriously, though. I've realized this stuff a while ago, Aard. But I guess rather than do this, I bottle it up and explode on anyone who get's angry over the mention of the name. That gives me an idea! Let's have a cascade of anger! In the first tier, people will be angry that Dsmart or FS3 was mentioned, then the second tier is people who get angry at the tier 1 people and preach to them, and then the 3rd tier is the people who get pissed at how pretentious the 2nd tier people are, and then the 4th tier people get angry at the 3rd tier people because the 3rd tier people are acting like they know everything, the 5th tier is the people who get angry at everyone because they're making such a big deal about it and draw everything out, and they yell at everyone for it. Finally, the 6th tier of people are very similar to the 5th tier, but they just try and ignore everyone, silently palming their faces.
Post what tier you're in! I think I'm borderline between tier 2 and 3 right now.
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Oookay.
Well, I appreciate and respect your feelings.
However, compared to many of the forum members here, you're pretty young too.
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Could you both shut up please? Unless you're talking about the topic, or something like it.
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I'll chime in to point out it is indeed very possible that the destruction of Capella was "never explained" internally, because it never needed to be. I've always maintained that the Shivans are such excellent opponents because we know almost nothing about them. The "hard data" about them in the Tech Room is itself mostly conjecture, and whenever we learn more about them it only serves to highlight how little we actually know. Ever wondered why every new piece of information about the Shivans gleaned in the FS2 campaign has multiple ambiguous interpretations?
I'm going to bring up the first Space Sim I personally played here: Wing Commander Prophecy. Anyone who's read the booklet that came with the game knows they did a very good job building up this ancient and technologically advanced "boogeyman" of a species as the possible nebulous perpetrators of a system-wide purge, and the first encounter with them in game is at a debris cloud of an entire Kilrathi fleet. The comm chatter you hear from their fighters is initially jibberish, and for a while they might almost be scary.
Until they learn English and start getting their insectoid hind parts handed to them on a platter. For all the "horrible star gods" mythological build up they turn out to be just a new player in town with comparable technology to yours, and a single carrier stops their invasion (assuming you don't then continue the story with Secret Ops anyways).
Volition didn't make that mistake with the Shivans. They gave us a Pyrrhic victory in FS1 and a desperate fighting retreat in FS2. When it looked like the playing field had been leveled they showed us a fleet of Juggernauts, WAY more then would be needed to utterly destroy every system in the GTVA. Only they weren't doing that, so the closing mission doesn't even give you the satisfaction of believing you "stopped" the Shivans in any way, or even hindered them!
The end result is a foe who started terrifying, and ended even more terrifying. Explaining their motivations would only diminish their alien nature, and the horrors the paranoid mind can concoct in a dark room are always going to be worse then the monster that's actually there when you turn the lights on. So I'm not convinced Volition even felt the need to EVER explain why they blew up Capella.
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Yes, totally agreed.