Author Topic: Shivans, Vishnans, and physics  (Read 4839 times)

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Offline Aardwolf

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Shivans, Vishnans, and physics
So... Shivans are like the embodiment of destruction, and Vishnans are like the embodiment of preservation (at least as they conveyed themselves to Bei Jr.)... but not just "embodiment", nearly "deification"... or force of nature? I asked this to my physicist dad and he didn't see a relationship, but I figured maybe I'll post this here anyway.

Is there a physics-y relationship where...

Zero point energy
:
Pauli exclusion principle
Electromagnetism
:
Gravity
Destruction
:
Preservation

Relevance (from tech entries):
Shivan "laser" weapons use zero point energy to do extra damage on impact; the Vishnans use the Pauli exclusion principle.
Shivan beams are confined by electromagnetism; Vishnan beams are confined by gravity manipulation.




Could it mean something?

 

Offline An4ximandros

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Re: Shivans, Vishnans, and physics
The Vishnans are just Shivan fanboiz?

Wait, where can we find the gun entries again?
« Last Edit: December 03, 2013, 03:52:09 pm by An4ximandros »

 

Offline Aardwolf

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Re: Shivans, Vishnans, and physics
Techroom > Weapons > key combo to make it show hidden things (Ctrl+Shift+S?)

BP added tech entries for all the weapons, even gave names to the beamz.

 

Offline -Norbert-

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Re: Shivans, Vishnans, and physics
In BP I think that calling the Shivans "destroyers" is a bit too one-dimensional. Sure they do destroy whole species, but from what we know, they do so selectively and with a way to avoid that fate.

It's more like they are overly strict judges or gardeners, while the Vishnans acts as a counterbalance to make sure the Shivans don't go overboard. At least that's how it seemed to me.

Also I don't really see why electromagnetism should be more destructive than gravity. Reduced to the bare basics, both forces "keep/pull things together" and both can be used for destruction and protection, depending on how they are applied.

 

Offline Aardwolf

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Re: Shivans, Vishnans, and physics
Electromagnetism/gravity as the mechanism for confining their beam weapons, as explained in the tech database.

 

Offline -Norbert-

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Re: Shivans, Vishnans, and physics
I know... but you were the one who associated electromagnetism with destruction and gravity with preservation. I was just commenting on your proposed theme.

 

Offline Husker

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Re: Shivans, Vishnans, and physics
Electromagnetism gives us:
Solar flares
CMEs
Earth's magnetic field.

Gravity gives us:
Black holes
Supernovae
Planetary collisions.

Yeah, not seeing it.

 

Offline Luis Dias

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Re: Shivans, Vishnans, and physics
Your physicist dad is right, you are wrong. /thread

 

Offline Aardwolf

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Re: Shivans, Vishnans, and physics
I know... but you were the one who associated electromagnetism with destruction and gravity with preservation. I was just commenting on your proposed theme.

Well no, the overarching thing they have in common is the left column is "Shivan" and the right column is "Vishnan".

I just thought I'd throw in the roles ascribed to them by Bei Jr (presumably because the Vishnans were happy enough with their concepts resolving that way).... I mean maybe in some context the Shivans are destroyers, and the Vishnans are preservers... but in some alien context, like ... Idunno, entropy?

I remember reading something that said somehow entropy in a universe with black holes is different from without... didn't retain any of the details though.

 

Offline Luis Dias

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Re: Shivans, Vishnans, and physics
Gravity is a huge source of entropy. Supermassive black holes are amazing entropy producing beastly machines.

 

Offline Kolgena

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Re: Shivans, Vishnans, and physics
Shivans are an immune system. Vishnans promote cancer.

 

Offline QuakeIV

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Re: Shivans, Vishnans, and physics
Shivans are an immune system. Vishnans promote cancer.

Enlist!

 

Offline BritishShivans

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Re: Shivans, Vishnans, and physics
PROMOTE A CANCER-FREE UNIVERSE

REMOVE VISHNANS

 

Offline Kolgena

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Re: Shivans, Vishnans, and physics
says the shivan

 

Offline An4ximandros

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Re: Shivans, Vishnans, and physics
You forgot to link to the song.

 

Offline BritishShivans

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Re: Shivans, Vishnans, and physics
I could have, but I felt that without a Freespace REMOVE X, it would detract from the post. Maybe.  :P

 

Offline An4ximandros

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Re: Shivans, Vishnans, and physics
We can always ask Mjn.Maxel to waste his time perform this emphatically important task for the FS community.

Shivan playing the Electric Piano, Terran with the accordion, Vasudan with the trumpet.

Make it happen, HLP.

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: Shivans, Vishnans, and physics
Someone in this thread said a really important word! Or, at least, a useful metaphor for an important phenomenon in the BPverse.

 

Offline An4ximandros

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Re: Shivans, Vishnans, and physics
Entropy?

Maybe Noemi needs to make a contract...

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: Shivans, Vishnans, and physics
Ahhhh I don't want to be an asshole tease, devs are jerks when they do that. But I don't want to just point at either. So maybe I can judo this into an interesting discussion - I think one of the core phenomena we have to understand in building systems, whether civilizations or individual bodies, is how local vs. global incentives compete.

So, as one example: a cell will only survive in the long term if an organism it's part of survives. So individual cells have to be coerced to behave in a way that's good for the organism globally, even if it hurts their own reproductive success. So our bodies create laws - apoptosis, limited telomeres, tumor suppression genes - to punish rogue players who switch over to the defect strategy in the prisoner's dilemma: reproducing wildly, hijacking the resources of cooperative cells to feed their own growth.

Occasionally these rules break down - there's a vulnerability that something learns to exploit. Boom! You get a tumor, or a sociopath, or a predatory megacorporation, or a meme, or any phenomenon that's learned how to exploit the rules to propagate itself. This seems to be a fundamental truth across all kinds of systems, from the molecular (DNA is a molecule that's learned how to replicate itself, and then to jacket itself in organisms that further promote its fitness) to the civilizational (a peaceful artistic country won't succeed in the long run if its neighbor is an aggressive invader).

And the bigger the system, the more resources it's assembled, the bigger the payoff for the defect strategy that learns to exploit that system. A sociopath in a little village might learn how to steal some extra food. A sociopath in a world-spanning civilization might become emperor of Rome, and that's a much better place to be if you're selfish.