[Setekh]

Originally posted by Nico
Because nobody will never agree on the plot. I know I won't, I have my own ideas. I know it's the same for everybody. Would I do concessions on the plot, I'd work on it only half-heartedly.

I do think this is the main part of it. Ships and weapons are far less of an issue. What actually happens? Deep down, if we want FS3, we would only want the definitive version of what happens. Therein lies the problem of a user-driven FS3-style project.

[TopAce]

Originally posted by Nico

Because nobody will never agree on the plot. I know I won't, I have my own ideas. I know it's the same for everybody. Would I do concessions on the plot, I'd work on it only half-heartedly.
I'm sorry, but FS3? I'd rather use Ferrium and do my own campaign, with my own ideas. A TC, this time, because, as the arrogant french bastard than I am, I consider my own scifi universe ( on which I've worked on for at least half a dozen years now ) superior. So between making a bastardized FS3 from scratch and doing my own thing? There's no question.

I am pretty certain that everybody has his/her own 'plot of the sequel' in the case of FS1. You HAD to accept the plot of FS2 if you liked the game. And we all know you did both(liked and accepted it). As a mainstay of the Inferno staff and a professional modeller, you have RIGHT to do not trust Derek's team. Everybody has RIGHT to do so, actually

[SadisticSid]

I don't care what he does with the license as long as it doesn't hurt us modding for FS2. But with his apparent obsession with libel and legal threats I don't see much of his time going into FS3.

Without being rude, Smart's past games have had very niche appeal at best and I foresee the same will be true of whatever he does with FS3. Like he said, Freespace was ultimately a failed franchise and nothing since in the genre has really succeeded. Given his past gaming failures (never saw any of them in the shops, even) I doubt he'll be the one to break the mold.

In any case I don't really care; he can get on with his project and we can proceed with ours. I am somewhat concerned by his apparent determination to stamp out modders, but I assume he won't have even a legal toe to stand on.

[Nico]

What I am doing as a modder has no bearing there. I assume that somewhere exists the real FS3 plot, at least the outline for it ( V can't have decided to make the shivans blow up Capella for no reason ). I'll accept anything coming from V, because they made the story, they know what's to come. But that Smart guy, ok, he's a game developer and all, but first ( at least he claims it ), he's a FS fan, no different than us. W/o Volition giving the story to him, well, he'd have to make it up. Which means it would be a fan made story. Which has no more value, to my eyes, than, let say, Inferno, MT or BWO plots. Or mine.
Same goes for a HLP-made FS3. That's why I believe it's better to stick to a handful of different visions. I prefer a BWO and a MT than a HLPFS3.

[Nico]

Originally posted by SadisticSid
Like he said, Freespace was ultimately a failed franchise and nothing since in the genre has really succeeded.

On that particular note, I'd really like to know the actual Freelancer's selling figures. Coz as much as people criticize it, there seems that MANY people played it ( played the final product, not the demo ). Seems odd for a commercial failure, if you ask me.

[SadisticSid]

Originally posted by Nico


On that particular note, I'd really like to know the actual Freelancer's selling figures. Coz as much as people criticize it, there seems that MANY people played it ( played the final product, not the demo ). Seems odd for a commercial failure, if you ask me.

Freelancer was just a 3D version of Tyrian to me; I don't consider it part of the genre

[Flipside]

It's true, lots of Forums seem full of people who have played Freespace 2.

I think the Mods are the best way for this community to go, and then on to Ferrium afterwards. That way we also give a much wider choice. The hard part is finding enough staffers to get the job finished, but we will endure, we always do

[Kazan]

this situation has strengthened my resolve to make ferrium's primary dataset the universe i am designing, with FS2, WC and B5 mods as primary goals as well (primary enough for their needs to be included ni the design specs)

[Rictor]

Just so I'm clear on the point, what exactly is the final goal of Ferrium? As I understand it, its supposed to be a brand new engine, right? A game engine, designed specifically for space-sims?

And if that is the case, realistically speaking, what are the chances that it will a)be completed and b)be as good or better than the Freespace 2 engine.

I want to know, should I actually hold out hope for it, or what?

[Kazan]

Rictor: yes you're understanding the objective of Ferrium

A) High
B) Extremely High

[IPAndrews]

Provided you know your 3D math and a graphics API, putting together a space combat game ain't any great shucks. Kazan is certainly capable. The thing that'll make or break the game is the way the code is structured. Hopefully flexible and elegant, not big and hacky like FS2.

[Kazan]

Come on IP you know me - flexible coding is my middle name

[Cyker]

Well, if he's gonna make it then we ought to help him make it GOOD instead of bashing him down for just suggesting it!
I must admit I'm a bit concerned about a few things (The fact that he mentioned Mouse Control scares the **** out of me - Freelancer sold well because people thought it would be the next Elite. It wasn't. I think I would rather be dropped in a pit with 3 rabid badgers than try and fly, say, an Ursa with a mouse!), but if we can SHOW him how FS should be, then maybe, just maybe, he'll do a decent job of it!

I must admit that I'd be more comfortable if Volition did it, but...

[milo]

Kazan, your Ferrium web page indicates that the project design is 5% complete, none of the components have been started, and the only component that has even been staffed is network coding, which you are doing yourself.  Is that an accurate status report, or has your team been so busy working on the actual project that you haven't had time to update the web page?  How long have you been working on it?

[Liberator]

I think we(HLP) are acting like a big family when it comes to Freespace.  We all want what is best for our child(FS) and we get very defensive if someone acts in an offensive manner toward our child.  I think what really got me was how he claimed he was a fan and then basically said that he was going to ignore the fans cause they are all 12 and ignorant of the realities of game design.

For the record I'm 26 years old and am someone who follows game design with some interest, I just don't have any skillz that show it.

[heretic]

here's my worthless take on the situation.

Before Esh IM'd me, I had no idea who the hell this Derek Smart person was. I still don't. I only know by what he posts.

First, by posting his intent on a public message board, it shows his complete lack of business sense and professionalism. I don't care what he's done in the past, but really- you just dont' do things like that.

Second, the group here at HLP have done more than anyone could imagine with the game. It's been 5 years, and I've known most of these posters the whole time. 5 YEARS.

All this talk of pooling money to purchase the license...not possible guys. You need to either organize into a legitimate group, or into a corporation- you can't own a share in licensing.

Third, his threatening of suing for IP- that's complete and utter nonsense. You can only go after someone using that if they are profiting from the property. A lot of companies like to go after and threaten people, however the Fair Use Act allows people to use IP for nonprofit reasons.

Not to mention, the engine itself is GPL- he can't touch it. He can't enforce the ship names, because of they're nature. He can only enforce the music, logos, shapes, and textures. And the name. That's it.

Now, remember what Volition did when they found out "Freespace" was already trademarked? They made it "Descent: Freespace" as it's officially known. It's so easy to get around IP-nazis it's almost laughable.

So all in all, I feel it's highly unlikely this person would purchase the license, however I'm not ruling it out. The community can purchase it, but needs to oraganize first. If the worst should happen, it won't be the end of the world, just the end of the name.

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by milo
Kazan, your Ferrium web page indicates that the project design is 5% complete, none of the components have been started, and the only component that has even been staffed is network coding, which you are doing yourself.  Is that an accurate status report, or has your team been so busy working on the actual project that you haven't had time to update the web page?  How long have you been working on it?

milo - I think it's still early days in terms of development.  But http://dynamic4.gamespy.com/~freespace/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=98 is a better reflection of the current (official) status of Ferrium, I think.

[Kazan]

milo: i Ferrium just launched - the finished section is the file system abstraction, the network code comes later -- we're about to start full scale developement

heretic++

[Flipside]

That's pretty much what I thought about the SCP and Ferrium stuff heretic, thanks for the clarification

The Ferrium project will be a while in developing, Source Code is 'off the peg', damn good 'off the peg', something like Monsoon or New Look, but still off the peg.

Ferrium is bespoke tailoring

[heretic]

Kazan, those concepts you have for Ferrium are pretty