[Lorric]

On the other hand it's always easier to kill something that is not your own species (or looks almost exactly like you species in case of Cyrvans). And it's also easier to shoot down a vessel and only know intelectually that you just killed someone, rather than look that someone in the eye and still pull the trigger.

Besides I wouldn't use the word killer for them, even if they killed their enemies with swords, because of the reason behind the killing. They are protecting their people and nations from a hostile invasion. That isn't murder, it's self defense.

Well I didn't mean it like that. I just meant it in the sense they're different from most people in that you wouldn't join the military if you didn't have the stomach to end lives. Remember, they joined in peacetime.

Yeah they joined in peacetime, but it looks like they are doing well with killing aliens which obviously want to kill them. Remember, there were no diplomatic negotiations, they bumped in like the Shivans. I'm sure this made some pilots thinking that they are just monsters, not real individuals.

But they learned later that their enemies except the Hertak were just thralls, and even the Hertak themselves were acting out of self preservation rather than conquest. Yet they carried on killing cheerfully. Not that there's anything wrong with that, that's what soldiers do. The ideal soldier would be someone who isn't emotionally effected by killing.

[FireSpawn]

The ideal soldier would be someone who isn't emotionally effected by killing.

That's no Moon ideal soldier, that's a Spacestation Shivan. We don't want that.

[Lorric]

The ideal soldier would be someone who isn't emotionally effected by killing.

That's no Moon ideal soldier, that's a Spacestation Shivan. We don't want that.

Well, what would you suggest? In a protracted conflict, caring about your victims would be detrimental. I don't mean place no value on life, killing should still be the last resort, but if it has to be done, then being able to accept it without being emotionaly tormented by it would be best I feel. Better than enjoying it, as you could end up craving more when the war ended, or taking liberties during it.

[NGTM-1R]

That's no Moon ideal soldier, that's a Spacestation Shivan. We don't want that.

"What do you feel when you kill someone?"

"Recoil."

THE SHIVANS ARE ALREADY AMONG US.

[Jellyfish]

Do I smell another split? Morality during warfare is thin ice, we better drop the subject.

[-Norbert-]

About not discussing it among ourselfs (in here), I agree.
But I too am interrested in how the JGASF crew handles the matter.

To anyone willing and able to answer:
Now that the Hertak lost their old extremist leaders, have there been any attempts to convince the remaining Hertak that Humans are not a thrall of their enemies and thus be able to negotiate at least a cease fire?
Considering the LSF and JGASF wiped out their entire royal line an outright peace treaty is very unlikely, but ending open hostilities does sound like a good idea.

On a similar note:
Do Humans and Cyrvans have any idea what's going on with the Hertak? I suppose the most likely results of the war would be a splintering into smaller groups (probably lead by former governors/mayors/whatever or high ranking military officers), each trying to consolidate themselfs as the new leaders either by political means, or maybe even through civil war.
While this would make it virtually impossible to sign any treaty with the whole Hertak race, it would also weaken the position of each group in the negotiations and thus make it more likely to get at least some of the Hertak to sign the cease fire.

[Deadly in a Shadow]

To anyone willing and able to answer:
Now that the Hertak lost their old extremist leaders, have there been any attempts to convince the remaining Hertak that Humans are not a thrall of their enemies and thus be able to negotiate at least a cease fire?
Considering the LSF and JGASF wiped out their entire royal line an outright peace treaty is very unlikely, but ending open hostilities does sound like a good idea.

On a similar note:
Do Humans and Cyrvans have any idea what's going on with the Hertak? I suppose the most likely results of the war would be a splintering into smaller groups (probably lead by former governors/mayors/whatever or high ranking military officers), each trying to consolidate themselfs as the new leaders either by political means, or maybe even through civil war.
While this would make it virtually impossible to sign any treaty with the whole Hertak race, it would also weaken the position of each group in the negotiations and thus make it more likely to get at least some of the Hertak to sign the cease fire.

I would rather guess that the Zy (especially the Zy, considering WoD 2), the Cordi and the Fura'ngle won't let happen something like that. I still hope they're angry enough to kill them all.

EDIT: Or they do it while the Hertak are distracted with their own problems.

Oh, now I have a question to anyone.
When the Hertak ruled, they restricted the technology of the three races. How powerful are their ships now? Does anyone know if the Zy "Home Fleet" returned back?

[Lorric]

What to do about the Hertak is an interesting one. Extermination or subjugation honestly seem the best things to do under the circumstances. The Hertak believe a super race is coming for them. So they must grow strong enough to combat said race. That is at our expense. That cannot be allowed. It is the law of the jungle when an aggressor enters the territory of another animal. And it is the same here. That super race has no beef with any of us, so only the Hertak are a threat.

Although the Hertak story seems very flimsy. You don't say to someone "we're going to exterminate your race. But we'll do it later and let you make it harder for us when we come back." Sounds like just a pretext for a ruler to whip up the people to go to war.

Unless that race would prefer the Hertak to do the dirty work of a larger plan, let the Hertak sweep across the galaxy, weakening or wiping out the other races, then come in at the most opportune time and conquer everyone and take everything. I wouldn't mind having a chat with the Hertak about the specifics of this other race, especially if any have this enconter in their shared memory still. Maybe the Hertak themselves are just unwitting battle thralls, pawns in the strategy of another race...

Spoon, you reading this? That's Wings of Dawn 3 right there... 

[Jellyfish]

You don't say to someone "we're going to exterminate your race. But we'll do it later and let you make it harder for us when we come back." Sounds like just a pretext for a ruler to whip up the people to go to war.

No, but advanced intel does. To someone sufficiently paranoid, a prophecy counts as intel. Sufficiently paranoid people are exponentially harder to kill.

[qwadtep]

That super race has no beef with any of us, so only the Hertak are a threat.

Or do they? For all we know, we should be just as worried about said super race--and we just killed the leaders of the only species prepared to fight back.

[LunarNightmare]

That super race has no beef with any of us, so only the Hertak are a threat.

Or do they? For all we know, we should be just as worried about said super race--and we just killed the leaders of the only species prepared to fight back.

They weren't prepared, if they couldn't beat us, then they weren't going to beat people with beam-spamming "light fighters" that gut capital ships.

[Jellyfish]

That super race has no beef with any of us, so only the Hertak are a threat.

'The enemy of my enemy is my enemy's enemy. No more, no less'

[qwadtep]

That super race has no beef with any of us, so only the Hertak are a threat.

Or do they? For all we know, we should be just as worried about said super race--and we just killed the leaders of the only species prepared to fight back.

They weren't prepared, if they couldn't beat us, then they weren't going to beat people with beam-spamming "light fighters" that gut capital ships.

You mean the light fighters that get instantly vaporized by the main beams on an Armageddon? Infi's biggest contribution against the Hertak is crashing into the Flagship's engines to buy a few seconds for Crystal to shoot the core--and there's no way a Prometheus Frame could have even fit inside.

There are too many coincidences: Dawn HAPPENS to be pulled forward in time, she HAPPENS to arrive specifically when her species is at war with the Hertak, she HAPPENS to be uniquely capable of flying the only ship in the known universe capable of stopping pinning down the Hertak Flagship long enough to destroy it. Also, the series is named after her. If I didn't know better, I'd say the LSF/CSA are unwitting battle thralls.


That got me thinking. Crystal, how bad were LSF losses during the battle with the Flagship and its fleet?

[Lorric]

You're all missing the point here, that is, if this race even exists and isn't a fabrication cooked up by the Hertak leadership, that race could have destroyed the Hertak any time it wanted. And with the shared memory thing, I'd say the Hertak would be the most dangerous race to leave alive also. It doesn't make sense. If you want someone dead, you kill them. You don't wait for them to get stronger. How long ago was it I wonder? If it even happened. Had our ancestors even come down from the trees yet? Or still living in caves? The Cyrva were probably still harmless at the time too.

My money would be on Spoon at the time just inventing it as a reason for the Hertak to be attacking, and nothing else. But as for it coming into play in the future, I could potentially see it happening...

Oh, and WYNTER, come out and tell us more about yourself please. And if there's anyone else lurking around in the background, can you come out too? Especially any Zy. I'd like very much to see some Zy.

[Jellyfish]

Dawn HAPPENS to be pulled forward in time, she HAPPENS to arrive specifically when her species is at war with the Hertak, she HAPPENS to be uniquely capable of flying the only ship in the known universe capable of stopping pinning down the Hertak Flagship long enough to destroy it. Also, the series is named after her. If I didn't know better, I'd say the LSF/CSA are unwitting battle thralls.

What if the race the Hertak are afraid of planned all of that? As you say, too many coincidences, and when too many coincidences happen in a string, it's because someone made it so.

[Lorric]

Again, why would they bother with all that if they had the power to do whatever they wanted back then? Why go to all that trouble?

[Deadly in a Shadow]

Again, why would they bother with all that if they had the power to do whatever they wanted back then? Why go to all that trouble?

Maybe, said race had enough other problems to deal with than the Hertak. There was/is another ancient species out there.

Or everything's just about a prophecy. Maybe they want to be fought back because they're going to screw the entire universe and they're just waiting until more potential races prospered.

[Lorric]

Again, why would they bother with all that if they had the power to do whatever they wanted back then? Why go to all that trouble?

Maybe, said race had enough other problems to deal with than the Hertak. There was/is another ancient species out there.

Or everything's just about a prophecy. Maybe they want to be fought back because they're going to screw the entire universe and they're just waiting until more potential races prospered.

So they decided to just stop off and say "Hey, we're gonna kill you later. Bye!"

I don't think so. Plus, the other race was wiped out. So they could have gone back and done it.

[Deadly in a Shadow]

Again, why would they bother with all that if they had the power to do whatever they wanted back then? Why go to all that trouble?

Maybe, said race had enough other problems to deal with than the Hertak. There was/is another ancient species out there.

Or everything's just about a prophecy. Maybe they want to be fought back because they're going to screw the entire universe and they're just waiting until more potential races prospered.

So they decided to just stop off and say "Hey, we're gonna kill you later. Bye!"

I don't think so. Plus, the other race was wiped out. So they could have gone back and done it.

Wut?
Just to make it clear. The Aleyurians (the race you're talking about) should have exterminated the Hertak. And why should they exterminate them immediately? Maybe, they're like the Ancients in the Freespace universe (rather said, the ASW-verse), a race searching for a comparable adversary? Maybe they're just Harbingers for something even worse.  Or vice versa, the Aleyurians disappeared cause of a bigger threat.
Maybe they're like the Reapers from Mass Effect and they waited until more species evolved in order to kill them all?

The Fir'Kyr, the other ancient species, wasn't extinguished, because they're going to appear in WoD 2.

Anyway, Spoon high likely has a good reason for telling the story that way. It wouldn't make any sense if not.

[Lorric]

Again, why would they bother with all that if they had the power to do whatever they wanted back then? Why go to all that trouble?

Maybe, said race had enough other problems to deal with than the Hertak. There was/is another ancient species out there.

Or everything's just about a prophecy. Maybe they want to be fought back because they're going to screw the entire universe and they're just waiting until more potential races prospered.

So they decided to just stop off and say "Hey, we're gonna kill you later. Bye!"

I don't think so. Plus, the other race was wiped out. So they could have gone back and done it.

Wut?
Just to make it clear. The Aleyurians (the race you're talking about) should have exterminated the Hertak. And why should they exterminate them immediately? Maybe, they're like the Ancients in the Freespace universe (rather said, the ASW-verse), a race searching for a comparable adversary? Maybe they're just Harbingers for something even worse.  Or vice versa, the Aleyurians disappeared cause of a bigger threat.
Maybe they're like the Reapers from Mass Effect and they waited until more species evolved in order to kill them all?

The Fir'Kyr, the other ancient species, wasn't extinguished, because they're going to appear in WoD 2.

Anyway, Spoon high likely has a good reason for telling the story that way. It wouldn't make any sense if not.

Sorry, I mixed the two races up. The Hertak recognised the ship Dawn had too, which validates their story. Perhaps we can have a nice little chat with the Hertak and say "Look, your feared race is gone now. So can we all be friends now?" Even if their name does sound like hurt and attack...

I suppose then though they'd say no, because they'll come back one day.

It is true though, they may have left rather than have been wiped out. However, I wouldn't want to take sides against a race we'd never even met before. Maybe we need to put Dawn in another of those ships. I know she said she wouldn't fly again, but maybe she can quiz the AI within about this.

On the idea of fleeing a greater threat, I had an idea. Maybe they wanted to whip the Hertak up, so they'd grow strong, and provide a buffer between them and the greater threat...