[ChronoReverse]

It could be possible to deblock the text before using it in-game, however, this would defeat the purpose of using DDS (you can leave it in compressed form) since you'd have to decompress it and leave it decompressed in memory for it to be deblocked.

[Flipside]

Well, to be honest, I think DDS is not designed for smooth gradients, but the fact of the matter is that TGA is far far too big to download an entire campaign using them. JPG's are workable, but will still eat texture memory. I think anything that doesn't rely too heavily on texture gradients can be done as DDS, however Space effects etc might need to be in a different format.

Theres actually that same 'layering' effect on the original image as well, it might even be part of Lunarcells filling algorythm for all I know, but I think it's easily possible to get so obsessed with getting 'perfect' image quality that we forget that this is a game which needs to be optimised

[ChronoReverse]

Yeah, I've noticed that the .ddx compression was amplifying the pre-existing gradients too.


DXT5 is the best compression for stuff with gradients, but it still doesn't handle it very well =(

[Lightspeed]

face it, DDS sucks for anything that has any gradients in it.

And  campaigns are normally zipped (or archived in some other form) anyway, so TGA ain't that bad size-wise.

DDS *might* be useful for some model textures, but anything else will just look crappy.

[Flipside]

It's not the download size that's the only consideration, it's also about space taken up in texture memory, my card has 256Mb, so I'm not personally all that bothered, but people with lower spec cards will probably start to notice stuttering.
I agree with you completely on the gradient thing though, it appears that DDS was designed for such things as Textures, not Effects, in mind. Also, I have a sneaky feeling that DDS is optimised for textures of 512 x 512.

One day, I'll have to take a close look at some of the UT2K3 special effects and see if they suffer from the same problem

[ChronoReverse]

From reading a lot, it does seem that .dds isn't that great for really large textures (although still not bad).  As long as there aren't any alpha gradients it's not too bad.


It'll work best if there aren't any really large and smooth gradients; something that most FS2 retail textures qualify for, I believe.


So if I take the pcx textures and replace them with dds versions, would it work?  Additionally, where are UV maps referenced from?  The top-left corner (I may have to change the canvas size for some textures that annoying aren't a 2^n edge size).

Do textures have transparencies?  It's green right?  If I make that into a 1 bit alpha channel would it work in dds for DXT1a (does alpha for dds textures work?).

[Flipside]

As far as I know, DDS transparency IS supported, you'd have to convert the green to Alpha, as you said.

It's simply a matter of replacing the PCX files with DDS, UV's are stored in the model file, though you won't get any direct image improvement obviously, but at least they would take up less space in memory.

[ChronoReverse]

What I mean is that I may have to change the sizes of some textures since they're like 514x128.

If I don't keep the image relative to the reference point the same, it could mess up the mapping.  So I was wondering if they're referenced from a point (like the top-left corner).

[Flipside]

It should be fine, the UV will fit into whatever image you use, regardless of it's size. So changing the image you mentioned to 512 x 128 will not have an effect on the mapping in any way.

[ChronoReverse]

Hmm, so I could simply resize the textures instead of changing the canvas size, okey dokey, I'll try that as soon as I get home.

[Lightspeed]

Originally posted by Flipside
It's not the download size that's the only consideration, it's also about space taken up in texture memory, my card has 256Mb, so I'm not personally all that bothered, but people with lower spec cards will probably start to notice stuttering.

The ironic thing is, the lower end cards do NOT support storing compressed textures, so it's a moot point.

[ChronoReverse]

Well, it depends how low end.  Anything that supports HTL supports some form of DXTC as far as I've seen (any Geforce class or Radeon class card).

[Liberator]

I got a GF4MX and AFAIK it support all form of DXT compression, anything manufactured after 2002 should too, regardless of class.  Except maybe a Radeon 7000 or Mobility.

[ChronoReverse]

Even the Radeon 7000 supports DXTC.  I checked.  Anything that's a geforce or radeon supports DXTC.

[RandomTiger]

The only card I know that doesnt is TNT2

[Liberator]

Why support a 5 year old card?  Before you say it, I know it's still widely used, but if we're going to do this we need to set some boundaries.

Here's the boundaries:
Pentium 3/4 800mhz+ or Athlon whatever
256 MB of RAM minimum
Geforce 1/Radeon 7000 or above.

[kasperl]

Originally posted by Liberator
Why support a 5 year old card?  Before you say it, I know it's still widely used, but if we're going to do this we need to set some boundaries.

Here's the boundaries:
Pentium 3/4 800mhz+ or Athlon whatever
256 MB of RAM minimum
Geforce 1/Radeon 7000 or above.

256? do you have any idea how few people have that? 800mhz ain't no minimum. i can run FSO fine with p3 800, R7k and 192MB of ram. with spec and glow on.

[Flipside]

Actually the boundaries were set at :-

Minimum P600 processor, recommend 1Ghz+
Minimum : 128 MBytes of Ram, Recommend at least 512MBytes
Minimum : HT&L Graphics card with 32 Meg, Recommend 64+Meg
Directsound compatible soundcard, recommend EAX.
56k Internet connection, recommend Broadband or better.

Though these may change with time. Besides, DDS will work on old cards, even if it is uncompressed when it is stored IIRC

After all, we're not trying to set boundaries, were trying to break 'em