Author Topic: Wing Commander 6: The Undiscovered Release Date (Star Citizen Thread)  (Read 588971 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline General Battuta

  • Poe's Law In Action
  • 214
  • i wonder when my postcount will exceed my iq
Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
More money for development means better game for me in the end.
Except so far it's lead to the exact opposite. More money meant more future creep, more delays, more disorganisation, more disenchantment and less game.

Feature creep and delays do not mean worse game, they just mean later game. And I am OK with waiting if it means a better game in the end.

John Romero's gonna make you his *****

You are proving my point. Daikatana was not that bad in itself

lol

Daikatana was terrible, and the developer's insistence on scrapping, rebuilding, and swapping engines to try to catch up to other games being built at the same time is  a classic example of scope creep. It would've been a better game, delivered sooner, if it had stayed in scope.

 

Offline The E

  • He's Ebeneezer Goode
  • 213
  • Nothing personal, just tech support.
    • Steam
    • Twitter
Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
Daikatana "not that bad"? Compared to what, exactly? Random FNAF knockoffs on Greenlight?

Seriously though, Daikatana may not have been that bad taken on its own merits, but when looked at in light of its developer pedigree and marketing campaign? It was an utter disaster. The same will be true of SC, if/when it releases and isn't better at doing spaceflight than Elite, better at doing story than FS, better at being an MMO than WoW or EvE. It has to be the Best Damn Space Sim Ever, it cannot ever be mediocre.

But mediocre it probably will be. That's the trajectory the game's currently on.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2015, 03:34:57 pm by The E »
If I'm just aching this can't go on
I came from chasing dreams to feel alone
There must be changes, miss to feel strong
I really need lifе to touch me
--Evergrey, Where August Mourns

 

Offline AdmiralRalwood

  • 211
  • The Cthulhu programmer himself!
    • Skype
    • Steam
    • Twitter
Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
Wanting to compare the snail's pace of a hobbyist open source project with a handful of coders active at any time to a hypothetically AAA game studio with an apparently unlimited budget is pretty dishonest too.
Not to mention that everything FSO has done has been after release enhancements and bug fixing, as well as being done on no budget. We have finished games; released over a decade and a half ago, even.
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Codethulhu GitHub wgah'nagl fhtagn.

schrödinbug (noun) - a bug that manifests itself in running software after a programmer notices that the code should never have worked in the first place.

When you gaze long into BMPMAN, BMPMAN also gazes into you.

"I am one of the best FREDders on Earth" -General Battuta

<Aesaar> literary criticism is vladimir putin

<MageKing17> "There's probably a reason the code is the way it is" is a very dangerous line of thought. :P
<MageKing17> Because the "reason" often turns out to be "nobody noticed it was wrong".
(the very next day)
<MageKing17> this ****ing code did it to me again
<MageKing17> "That doesn't really make sense to me, but I'll assume it was being done for a reason."
<MageKing17> **** ME
<MageKing17> THE REASON IS PEOPLE ARE STUPID
<MageKing17> ESPECIALLY ME

<MageKing17> God damn, I do not understand how this is breaking.
<MageKing17> Everything points to "this should work fine", and yet it's clearly not working.
<MjnMixael> 2 hours later... "God damn, how did this ever work at all?!"
(...)
<MageKing17> so
<MageKing17> more than two hours
<MageKing17> but once again we have reached the inevitable conclusion
<MageKing17> How did this code ever work in the first place!?

<@The_E> Welcome to OpenGL, where standards compliance is optional, and error reporting inconsistent

<MageKing17> It was all working perfectly until I actually tried it on an actual mission.

<IronWorks> I am useful for FSO stuff again. This is a red-letter day!
* z64555 erases "Thursday" and rewrites it in red ink

<MageKing17> TIL the entire homing code is held up by shoestrings and duct tape, basically.

 

Offline NGTM-1R

  • I reject your reality and substitute my own
  • 213
  • Syndral Active. 0410.
Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
We have a man arguing with a straight face that a game where your sword blocks half your view, the CENTER HALF of your view, is "not bad".

I suppose given the cockpits we've seen that kind of makes sense actually.

Still.

Holy ****. Somebody close the thread, lock it here. Encapsulate this one perfect, timeless moment of madness for us that we may gaze upon it in awe and confusion forever and ever, amen. On the sixth day, as God was about to create the concept of insanity, he looked across time to this moment, and did a slow clap, and stopped. "You can't stop now!" complained a random angel. "You've only made the bones of the dinosaurs!" And the Almighty shook his head and replied. "Nope, I'm done. Can't top that."
"Load sabot. Target Zaku, direct front!"

A Feddie Story

 
Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
fire breaks out at cig headquarters; eyewitnesses report last seeing chris roberts driving a golf buggy loaded with cocaine into a concealed falcon 9 heavy; nasa radar installation vectors launch towards alpha centauri

666maslo666 asked to comment, reports that he is 'still happy waiting'
The good Christian should beware of mathematicians, and all those who make empty prophecies. The danger already exists that the mathematicians have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and to confine man in the bonds of Hell.

 

Offline karajorma

  • King Louie - Jungle VIP
  • Administrator
  • 214
    • Karajorma's Freespace FAQ
Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
I know he's since topped it, but this particular comment needs to be highlighted too.

Of course CIG are selling ships.  Even they think so.  You don't need sales tax for donations, and there is sales tax applied to every single item in the pledge store.  These are sales, not donations.

This does not prove anything. You need to pay sales tax if you provide any product as a reward. This is more about what the state considers sale/donation, not what CIG or backers consider it, or about the backer motivations for buying the ships (which is the topic here).

So if the idea of the ships is that people just love the game and want to see it made, and aren't buying ships, why would they be willing to pay sales tax on a donation when they could just donate it and have all the money go to the makers of the game?
Karajorma's Freespace FAQ. It's almost like asking me yourself.

[ Diaspora ] - [ Seeds Of Rebellion ] - [ Mind Games ]

 
Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
Ever heard of Axanar? The Star Trek fan film project.

As a fan-made project based on Star Trek, they are not allowed to sell merchandise that infringes on Paramount's IP nor are they allowed to sell their product.

Instead they have a "Donor store". Donate 10 bucks to the film, and then buy whatever through that store including miniature-games based on the Axanar property.

Now you can call them "donations", but it's a store. They're selling products. Both physical and digital.

So similarly, technically spending 2500 dollars on a promise of a ship is a "Donation" but it for all intents and purposes it is a purchase from a store. The player is buying DLC, they're buying an advantage over other players, etcetera.

To characterize it in any other way is to either be pedantic, delusional or dishonest.


 

Offline Unknown Target

  • Get off my lawn!
  • 212
  • Push.Pull?
Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
Wanting to compare the snail's pace of a hobbyist open source project with a handful of coders active at any time to a hypothetically AAA game studio with an apparently unlimited budget is pretty dishonest too.

What might surpass Star Citizen as a totally open MMO persistent open-world space sim/FPS hybrid free for all game? Nothing this decade probably. In fact if Star Citizen goes under, it'll probably scare off anyone from undertaking this sort of project again.

What might surpass Star Citizen as a space sim only (which is what a lot of people were hoping for to begin with)? Elite, No Man's Sky, Enemy Starfighter, the wealth of other small indie space sims that crop up every other month.

Why not Elite: Dangerous?

You know what I'd buy? A new Independence War.

 

Offline Mongoose

  • Rikki-Tikki-Tavi
  • Global Moderator
  • 212
  • This brain for rent.
    • Minecraft
    • Steam
    • Something
Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
I'm still waiting for this WOWZERS OPEN-WORLD EVERYTHING! phase to pass so that I can finally get a good, tightly-scripted singleplayer experience again.  Squadron 42 might have been my best bet at it, but not with this overall cluster****.

 

Offline Hades

  • FINISHING MODELS IS OVERRATED
  • 212
  • i wonder when my polycounts will exceed my iq
    • Skype
    • Steam
Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
Squadron 42 will not ever be the place to go for a good singleplayer experience if what they've released of the writing is indicative of the product as a whole.

So far it's been pretty standard CR fare, but more like Freelancer than Wing Commander, so you know, historical elements largely uprooted and plopped into space instead (Vanduuls, for example). Unlike how Homeworld used historical allusions to strengthen the story it wanted to tell, Squadron 42 uses whole parts of history for the singular purpose of reliving that history but in space.

The "Oldman" character (actor is Mark Hamil instead of Gary Oldman because they ****ed up) is basically an archetype copy-pasted with "Oldman" substituted in.
[22:29] <sigtau> Hello, #hard-light?  I'm trying to tell a girl she looks really good for someone who doesn't exercise.  How do I word that non-offensively?
[22:29] <RangerKarl|AtWork> "you look like a big tasty muffin"
----
<batwota> wouldn’t that mean that it’s prepared to kiss your ass if you flank it :p
<batwota> wow
<batwota> KILL

 

Offline Aesaar

  • 210
Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
It will literally never get better than maslo's last two posts.  SC on HLP has peaked.  It will never reach such dizzying heights again.

 

Offline Hades

  • FINISHING MODELS IS OVERRATED
  • 212
  • i wonder when my polycounts will exceed my iq
    • Skype
    • Steam
Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
John Romero already made Maslo his *****.
[22:29] <sigtau> Hello, #hard-light?  I'm trying to tell a girl she looks really good for someone who doesn't exercise.  How do I word that non-offensively?
[22:29] <RangerKarl|AtWork> "you look like a big tasty muffin"
----
<batwota> wouldn’t that mean that it’s prepared to kiss your ass if you flank it :p
<batwota> wow
<batwota> KILL

 
Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
[quote author=666maslo666 link=topic=90080.msg1808489#msg1808489 date=14508167
So yes, as I said, the delays did not result in a worse game, just a game that came too late, outmatched by competition.[/quote]

That's not something you can prove. It's speculation. Based on no facts whatsoever.

http://www.salon.com/2002/01/02/ion_storm/

A question I might ask, do you think a game is better by 9 core members walking out mid-project?
Do you actually believe that such an event would better a project? That such an environment where an event like that took place would produce the best game possible?


 
Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
So yes, as I said, the delays did not result in a worse game, just a game that came too late, outmatched by competition.
OK, even without discussing the first part of that statement, that still means that by the time SC comes out, it's gonna be outmatched by competition.

 

Offline 666maslo666

  • 28
  • Artificial Neural Network
Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
So yes, as I said, the delays did not result in a worse game, just a game that came too late, outmatched by competition.
OK, even without discussing the first part of that statement, that still means that by the time SC comes out, it's gonna be outmatched by competition.

You can only be outmatched by competition if there actually is a better competition. If no one except Romero made FPS games better than Doom at the end of 90's, Daikatana would be praised as a great innovative game after release, pushing the boundaries of the genre and gaming in general. Or look at Minecraft, all things considered, its a pretty mediocre game with a lot of wasted potential - the concept is great and unique, but the execution is lacking. I can easily imagine far better game based on the same concept if it was programmed as an AAA game, with a modern native engine and appropiate budget from the start. But since no one expect them attempts to do the same thing better, they have monopolized the market to great success, despite their lacking implementation and slow development.

RSI know they can take their time because nothing similar but better is coming along, and likely wont be for a long time. They also have so much money that they can afford some feature creep and delays. It would be a waste to not to use that money to make the game better, when they can.
"For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return." - Leonardo da Vinci

Arguing on the internet is like running in the Special Olympics. Even if you win you are still retarded.

 
Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
Except Daikatana is mediocre at best and not worth a replay. Doom still has some of the tightest level design in an FPS. It's just a much better game than Daikatana.
[19:31] <MatthTheGeek> you all high up on your mointain looking down at everyone who doesn't beam everything on insane blindfolded

 
Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
Given the recent boom in space games, I wouldn't be surprised if by the time SC comes out, there will be some fairly good competition, E:D certainly seems to be headed this way from what I read. And again, quality is not just about the amount of money you have, how you use that money is much more important.

 

Offline MatthTheGeek

  • Captain Obvious
  • 212
  • Frenchie McFrenchface
Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
RSI know they can take their time because nothing similar but better is coming along, and likely wont be for a long time.
I'm not sure on what basis you can draw this conclusion.
- E:D is a pretty damn solid competitor on the open-world spaceship side.
- FSO has been superior for a decade and a half to anything SQ42 could ever hope to achieve from what we know about their progress and chris' general approach to storytelling
- Pretty much any FPS since the 90s is superior to the direction SC's FPS is heading. SC isn't even remotely close to achieve what something like AFF does in term of FPS/space hybridization.

You can't combine a bunch of mediocre (to put it lightly) parts of game and hope it'll make a great game. SC tries to do everything, and fails so hilariously at every single thing it does (aside from convincing people to pay for jpegs) it's not even funny.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2015, 06:37:38 am by MatthTheGeek »
People are stupid, therefore anything popular is at best suspicious.

Mod management tools     -     Wiki stuff!     -     Help us help you

666maslo666: Releasing a finished product is not a good thing! It is a modern fad.

SpardaSon21: it seems like you exist in a permanent state of half-joking misanthropy

Axem: when you put it like that, i sound like an insane person

bigchunk1: it's not retarded it's american!
bigchunk1: ...

batwota: steele's maneuvering for the coup de gras
MatthTheGeek: you mispelled grâce
Awaesaar: grace
batwota: oh right :P
Darius: ah!
Darius: yes, i like that
MatthTheGeek: the way you just spelled it it means fat
Awaesaar: +accent I forgot how to keyboard
MatthTheGeek: or grease
Darius: the killing fat!
Axem: jabba does the coup de gras
MatthTheGeek: XD
Axem: bring me solo and a cookie

 

Offline karajorma

  • King Louie - Jungle VIP
  • Administrator
  • 214
    • Karajorma's Freespace FAQ
Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
- FSO has been superior for a decade and a half to anything SQ42 could ever hope to achieve from what we know about their progress and chris' general approach to storytelling

Yeah, I'm (incredibly) biased, but I've never been worried that SC was ever going to steal Diaspora's thunder. Yeah they have a good graphics engine but I'd be immensely surprised if they were going to be able to use it to do anything remotely close to what I've already done in missions, let alone the stuff I have planned.
Karajorma's Freespace FAQ. It's almost like asking me yourself.

[ Diaspora ] - [ Seeds Of Rebellion ] - [ Mind Games ]

 

Offline Aesaar

  • 210
Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
Did maslo have an aneurysm and forget all the competition SC has?  I mean, I know ignoring reality is a very common ability among SC fans, but claiming other games in the same genre don't exist is pushing it.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2015, 07:19:33 am by Aesaar »