Hard Light Productions Forums
Community Projects => The FreeSpace Upgrade Project => Topic started by: MicroPsycho on August 09, 2005, 07:33:18 pm
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As you may or may not know, i have been working on a high poly Artemis, here are some pics on the progress. Keep in mind its not finished yet. Any input or comments are apreciated.
(http://img352.imageshack.us/img352/1359/artemis42hf.jpg)
(http://img359.imageshack.us/img359/291/artemis37fx.jpg)
(http://img359.imageshack.us/img359/1095/artemis28cm.jpg)
(http://img323.imageshack.us/img323/4483/artemis10nw.jpg)
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Looks pretty good, however I don't think you need to spend so many polies on making curves. What program is that, btw?
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I'm loving it already.
Are you going to be adding one of those realistic cockpits to it? And are you doing the Artemis DH textures, too?
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ooo! pretty!
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If you are doing the DH, i know its not cannon but would anybody consider moving the guns in closer to the centerline, just on the DH not the standard one
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It's smoother, but not more detailed. Model in some of the parts you see on the textures. Take the hi-poly Herc as an example.
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Originally posted by redsniper
...What program is that, btw?
Looks Blender to me.
As for the model, too curvy, devours too many polies and the changes are not apparent in-game. Add details instead of making the curves smoother.
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I plan to add details, lots of details, now that I have the basic shape and smoothness i want.
I am going to add a realistic cockpit.
I think I will make the DH after, but make some changes to it like, such as 2 gun banks of 2, instead of 1 gun bank of 4
The program is Luxology's Modo.
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Originally posted by MicroPsycho
I plan to add details, lots of details, now that I have the basic shape and smoothness i want.
I am going to add a realistic cockpit.
I think I will make the DH after, but make some changes to it like, such as 2 gun banks of 2, instead of 1 gun bank of 4
The program is Luxology's Modo.
You probably need to do some major optimizing before you think about adding more detail. Final count, you shouldn't exceed 2k triangles for the ship and its cockpit, and you're already over three I'd guess. You don't need that much fine smoothing detail, but rather more of the big stuff that you'd see with spec mapping. Also, don't change the DH at all unless you do a second version; canon ship mods need to be completely compatable if they are going to see widespread usage.
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The program is Luxology's Modo.
[improvised Motorola voice]Hello Modo.[/improvised Motorola voice]
Personally, I prefer blender, it exports .COBs.
Great job on the model. To save polies, try using some Quads, you have to use them carefully so that they're perfectly flat, but they're well worth it. Hell, the original :v: models used 'em.
Can't wait to see my favorite bomber in High Poly Goodness.;7
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Actually quads don't help any under HTL, the face is broken into triangles to be rendered IIRC. Do a triangulated count on all models for HTL.
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Looks sexy. As it should. Keep it up.
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So, what is my upper limit for polies? I noticed the High-Poly Erinyes was just under 3000 and that's my aim. Is that reasonable?
Oh yeah, i need a cockpit, more precisely a pilot. I'm not ready for making figures like that so is there a cockpit I can borrow the pilot from?
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It's a tad high but not unreasonable. As for the cockpit, just about everyone uses the one that Nico/Venom made a while back; the original is out there somewhere but I've been extracting it out of the Ezechiel.
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Originally posted by MicroPsycho
So, what is my upper limit for polies?...
To be honest, I don't know if the SCP has a higher limit for polies. The Galactica model from Star Trek has around half a million polies and FSO can handle it no problem. I think the ~3000 poly aim sounds acceptable. I would say to go less because there is likely to be more than one or two bombers on screen most of the times, but I would be pounced on again and get accused of being incessantly stuck to canon by Raa.
Do you plan to make better textures, too? Because I think having better textures make a model almost as much better as a poly lifting does. The Hercules I by Bob(?) is a good example, it's a high poly version and has better textures. I still think that's the best HTL ship we have. (Sorry KARMA. :p)
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There is a hard limit of polys per subobject, but it's so high that I doubt you'll see it. It's also a format limitation more than an engine limitation IIRC. Half a million polys in one subobject isn't going to work, but 10k should be no problem. However, don't go all out as TopAce is right; the real problem isn't having one on screen, it's having 8, so I'll tow my line and keep saying watch the polycount.
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Originally posted by StratComm
... However, don't go all out as TopAce is right; the real problem isn't having one on screen, it's having 8...
Yes, it's a basic rule: I am never right. :o
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Yep. You never are :p
Originally posted by TopAce
To be honest, I don't know if the SCP has a higher limit for polies. The Galactica model from Star Trek has around half a million polies and FSO can handle it no problem.
You're an order of magnitude out. It's 50,000 not 500,000 IIRC. Not to mention that the galactica is strangely enough from BattleStar Galactica not Star Trek :D
See? :D
You're spot on about not going mad with the polies though. 2000-3000 is a pretty good budget for a fighter.
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Originally posted by StratComm
It's a tad high but not unreasonable. As for the cockpit, just about everyone uses the one that Nico/Venom made a while back; the original is out there somewhere but I've been extracting it out of the Ezechiel.
pffff....
Make your own cockpit. Far more fun.
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Originally posted by karajorma
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You're an order of magnitude out. It's 50,000 not 500,000 IIRC. Not to mention that the galactica is strangely enough from BattleStar Galactica not Star Trek :D
See? :D
...
I know neither universe.
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Well I can understand not getting into Trek (even though I'm a fan) but you're seriously missing out on BSG. Make sure you watch an episode if/when they ever show it over there.
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Eh, it has nacelles, it might as well be from trek. :nervous:
There's something out there with an insane poly count and an equally insane number of subobjects, but I don't think it's the Galactica. The Death Star, maybe, but I honestly can't remember.
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Originally posted by StratComm
There's something out there with an insane poly count and an equally insane number of subobjects, but I don't think it's the Galactica. The Death Star, maybe, but I honestly can't remember.
Either way it would be Omni's work :D
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What's with the little gun things in the front of one of the engine pods but not in the other one?
Are those on the original? I don't remember.
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Originally posted by karajorma
Well I can understand not getting into Trek (even though I'm a fan) but you're seriously missing out on BSG. Make sure you watch an episode if/when they ever show it over there.
you're talking about the original series right ? :nervous::p
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No. I'm talking about Galactica 80.
*assumes foetal position and prepares self for a beating*
Seriously though I think that's quite enough off-topic. We're taking away from the wonderment of MicroPsycho's model. :)
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Originally posted by karajorma
No. I'm talking about Galactica 80.
*assumes foetal position and prepares self for a beating*
Nah, the joke's wearing thin anyway. :)
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alright, sorry I havn't answered some of these sooner, I wen't on a trip for 2 days....
Originally posted by aldo_14
pffff.... make your own cockpit. Far more fun
Oh i plan on making my own cockpit, i just want the pilot:D
Originally posted by DarthWang
What's with the little gun things in the front of one of the engine pods but not in the other one?
Are those on the original? I don't remember.
those are guns, they're in the texture so I figured I'd add them. They are only on one side because I added them on at the last minute to see wahat it would like like, besides, they look like crap so I'll redo them.
I've also cut ~300 polies from optimising the tops of the engine pods so i'll continue adding details and optimising it
This is my first time modelling, can you believe it?!:nervous:
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I've done some optimisations and detail additions and now it's looking better (still not done) and only has about 3 more polies than my previous model and the guns no longer look like crap
(http://img364.imageshack.us/img364/4937/ArtemisB2.jpg)
(http://img364.imageshack.us/img364/6300/ArtemisB3.jpg)
(http://img364.imageshack.us/img364/1316/ArtemisB4.jpg)
(http://img364.imageshack.us/img364/8528/ArtemisB1.jpg)
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Still a lot of room to clean it up but lookin' good none the less.
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remember those big holes in the sides, make sure you put those in, and put some pipes in them too
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Originally posted by MicroPsycho
Oh i plan on making my own cockpit, i just want the pilot:D
You're better modelling the pilot yourself, too :D
Largely because the in cockpit mode shows up low-poly pilots really badly. My ones are a far bit higher poly than Nicos, but even then it doesn't look particularly good. You can probably get away with a very boxy cockpit design with detailed maps/lighting, but not as much with a low poly pilot IMO.
At the moment I'm working on a very high poly (56,000 poly) pilot mesh which is being used for some anis and as a base for a sensible poly-but-detailed cockpit pilot model.
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Is this beast big enough for two crew? It is a bomber after all.
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Grab a peep* and find out....
*scaled pilot model
it's 34m long, so IMO would be ok. I have a 39m long bomber and it easily has room for 2 crew, though (it's ****ing huge when you scale peeps to size).
(http://www.sectorgame.com/aldo/media/gtb_chnubis.jpg)
(http://sectorgame.com/aldo/media/chn_cp2.jpg)
EDIT; pilots are about average human height; I modelled them using a scaled biped in max as a template (so the proportions were correct), and used said biped as the guide for modelling the cockpit seats, etc.
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I want to have Aldo's babies.
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ya, the cockpit is pretty spacious for 2 crew, but the the artemis always struck me as a single-man bomber or more like a fighter that was armed to the teeth.
Also can I make the cockpit a submodel to free up some polies on the hull?
Aside from the cockpit, which I'm not quite sure what to do with yet, my model is coming along great, I've just about gotten to the point where I will start working on the DH as that model will have more diferences than just the single fin.
@aldo: I'm not sure I'm familiar with the 'in cockpit mode' care to explain?
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You will note that the Artemis is the twin sister of Apollo, and the Apollo had two people in its FS1 cutscene.
Just something to think about :p
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Originally posted by BlackDove
You will note that the Artemis is the twin sister of Apollo, and the Apollo had two people in its FS1 cutscene.
Just something to think about :p
Two pilots in the Apollo? :wtf:
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Originally posted by TopAce
Two pilots in the Apollo? :wtf:
Yes, you never watched the FS1 intro ? There's a dead dude in the back seat.
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I don't believe you
*goes to watch FS1 intro*
EDIT:wow...there is
(http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/1566/apollo5jf.th.jpg)
I guess my Artemis will have 2 pilots
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Originally posted by MicroPsycho
@aldo: I'm not sure I'm familiar with the 'in cockpit mode' care to explain?
A picture says a thousand words;
(http://sectorgame.com/aldo/media/devss/devScreen04.jpg)
You can also see what seems fine for exterior viewing looks a bit worse and blurry for close in. In my defense, I did this - particularly the HUD screen - before we actually had a cockpit view in FSO.
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Wait,... how is the Artemis, a heavy bomber, be the twin to the Apollo, a medium fighter? Doesn't make very much sense.
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Originally posted by Col. Fishguts
Yes, you never watched the FS1 intro ? There's a dead dude in the back seat.
I wouldn't bet it's a man.
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However, if you notice, the Apollo in the cutscene is the bomber edition, not the fighter, which is accepted to be the true Apollo.
*hopes he's not contradicted by the entire community*
And if you don't believe its a bomber, even with the visible missile racks, check the Freespace Reference Bible, 1st cutscene.
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Originally posted by TopAce
I wouldn't bet it's a man.
[q]Starts off showing opening credits over a flowing color background. It starts blurry, and the source of the color isn’t immediately apparent. The credits continue for a short while as the music builds. At the same time, the flowing colors start speeding up and becoming more clear. As the credits stop, the music hushes, then the camera pulls back quickly, revealing the damaged & sputtering thruster of a Terran bomber.
The music kicks in strong again, with a frantic pace. The ship is severely damaged, and the pilot is nearly hyperventilating in panic. He’s attempting to make a distress signal, but his comm is damaged and he’s so upset he’s talking near-gibberish. Closeups of his helmeted face show that he’s sweating and wide-eyed.
Pilot: [panting] Oh god, they’re following me!… Mayday! Mayday! This is Lieutenant Ash on Terran patrol wing Gamma… three niner… reporting… taken heavy damage… requesting immediate fighter cover and rescue… come in, anybody!
Scene cuts to a nearby military installation, the pilot makes a static-filled connection with a female comm officer… begins babbling about being ambushed by some new type of fighter. The comm officer has a hard time making sense of what he’s saying.
Pilot: Mayday! Requesting immediate assistance! Anyone, please!
Comm: We’re barely receiving you Gamma three niner, this is Terran outpost Riviera responding, what is your situation?
Pilot: Oh, thank god! Our wing was ambushed! We didn’t have a chance… I’m sure they’re tracking me!
Comm: Please calm down, sir, who attacked you? Was it the Vasudans?
Pilot: Vasudans were killed too, they slaughtered everyone…
Every few seconds a quick nightmarish flashback of the battle he just came from. It becomes clear that his Terran squadron was in a typical engagement with a group of Vasudan fighters when they were ambushed by several strange black-and-red fighters. The new ships made short work of the B fighters and started wasting the Terrans. Only by fleeing madly was he able to escape alive, losing his copilot in the process (he’s in one of the two-man bombers). The flashbacks show the Shivan fighters making strange, deft maneuvers, and emitting an eerie engine whine.
[cut to/from flashback]
Comm: Sir, you have to calm down. You were attacked by Vasudans, is that true?
Pilot: No, no… we were in a skirmish with a Vasudan patrol, and they just came out of nowhere and killed everyone…
Comm: Who came out of nowhere, pilot?
Pilot: I don’t know, they weren’t Vasudan and they weren’t Terran… oh, god, they had these death-black ships, and they flew like… and their weapons were too much, they wasted everyone!
[/q]
The descent-network renders of the cutscene Apollo also show the co-pilots' section of the cockpit.
(http://descent-freespace.com/goodies/gallery/cockpit/gtf0119.jpg)
(http://descent-freespace.com/goodies/gallery/cockpit/cok08.jpg)
It is, however, a fairly miniscule part of the visible canopy they've given the co-pilot.
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has anyone done a hi-poly Apollo? Cause that would be pretty sweet.
Anyway, back on topic I've added quite a bit of detail and done a lot of optimisations. The model as shown in the pictures below has exactly 2062 polies (model in pic at the beginning of this thread had 2009), but this has quads in it, when I triple the quads to make them triangles the model comes to about 3070 polies, which I guess is a little on the high side of things but ok if I don't add anymore detail and I make the cockpit a separate submodel. Your thought or suggestions.
(http://img356.imageshack.us/img356/4908/artemisshow42xt.jpg)
(http://img356.imageshack.us/img356/4318/artemisshow34md.jpg)
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I think i did see one somewhere,.... I'll have to find it again. Good work on the Artemis BTW.
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That's a definite improvement over the previous version, dude. Keep it up.
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This is great. :)
You might want to do the Derelict-only Hydra, too. Since that was just a little reskin, which Blaise dumped anyways, you would have creative control...
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Definitely going in the right direction :yes:
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Originally posted by MicroPsycho
has anyone done a hi-poly Apollo? Cause that would be pretty sweet.
Dark's Apollo Mk2 (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,6893.msg117703.html#msg117703)
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Yeah, that's a great-looking apollo. Too bad it wasn't released before Dark dissapeared.
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Probably for the best, because people would actually call that an mk2.
That's not an mk2.
Looks fantastic though.
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(http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/6760/smile9ku.gif)
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http://www.google.co.uk/search?hs=tvg&hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&q=define%3A+procrastination&btnG=Search&meta=
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:lol:
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hey, anything going on with this?
i got upgraded maps on my HD, (less porcelain, more sleek metal) and i want to know if maybe we can have some kinda joint release
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Eh, I actually thought of the Artemis as a single-person bomber. Because: it has no turret.
Also, I think blue cockpit controls would look better, give it that more futuristic feel. And go better with the white skin.
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well, the model is pretty much done, but I havn't worked on it for a dew months. I've tried to texture it, but I can't UV map worth a damn. I was waiting to acquire Modo 201 as apparently it allows you to paint/texture on the model in realtime and then converts it into UV and makes a map. So far I have had no luck acquiring the program and I am considering dumping the model off to someone who will finish it, but I'll give UV mapping another shot in the near future when I have some time on my hands before I make a decision.
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You're not going to try mapping it with the original map?
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well, I am....going to try at least...but like I said, I'll prolly give the model to someone who knows how to UV map.
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*points at Galemp*
I'd take a shot at it myself, but I'm guessing a month's wait isn't worth it. And besides, Galemp's better at mapping than I.
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Bump...
Am I hallucinating or wasn't the Artemis actually released at one point? I'd swear I recall a thread with finished versions, but I can't find it any longer.
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They were, but they had issues and really didn't improve that much. I'm not sure where the thread is.
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Bump.
Anyone have the files for the Artemis? I'd love to get my hands on them, see if I can finish it off. Normally I'd leave it to the original modeller but he hasn't been active for a year and a half.
If the new WIP isn't available, the old one will have to do.
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You may be better off going at it from the beginning.
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In that case I'll need a .3DS file with it, as I can't import .POF files. :(
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PCS 2 or LithUnwrap can solve that problem easily.
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PCS 2 or LithUnwrap can solve that problem easily.
That's not the problem. I can't get any POF file into or out of 3DS Max. I'm staring the Artemis dead in the face using PCS 2.03, but I can't get it into Max.
I can convert it into a COB file, but they're even more useless.
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LithUnwrap can make a 3ds from a POF. Spicious's builds of PCS2 can create a DAE, but I don't know if you can import that.
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LithUnwrap can make a 3ds from a POF. Spicious's builds of PCS2 can create a DAE, but I don't know if you can import that.
Right now I'm quoting the Team America theme song; but with 'blowfish' in place of 'America!'.
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:lol: