[Commander Zane]

I'm jealous of the blue fleet.

[karajorma]

As for everything else, that's your mod, and so it matters not to the discussion of the Iceni's canonical class. You could say it's been downgraded with the times (author fiat) but you cannot say the Iceni was never a frigate.

QFT!

The canonical designation of the Iceni is frigate. In discussions of the FS2 universe that is what it is. If you say otherwise you are wrong, plain and simply.

You can call it whatever you like in your own mod of course but you are going to get the same WTF reaction Hades gave because whether you like it or not you have done something rather odd when you downgraded the designation.

[Androgeos Exeunt]

The Titan-class destroyer GTD Shima, flagship of the 5th Fleet at Beta Aquilae, and the player's home base for the campaign. Named after Admiral Hikari Shima (2290-2371), commanding officer of the GTD Bastion and heroine of the Great War. Seriously, you didn't think they'd give the credit to the pilots of the GTD Bastion for being the "heroes of the Great War", did you?

Uh, did you just call that Raynor a Titan?

[NGTM-1R]

Renaming ship classes is not bad. I intended to do it for the project that became Stories From Sol. The people who named the mods don't always do so in a way that fits well with the GTVA's/Shivan's/Vasudan's/yourmom's naming schemes.

[ShadowGorrath]

Is it just me, or is everyone just trying to post as much screenshots as possible?

Didn't really work out with the Infected Lucifer, but still


GTVA Orion

[Commander Zane]

Those Orion textures are beautiful. Can I has please?

[Davin]

Is it just me, or is everyone just trying to post as much screenshots as possible?

Well this is technically a screenshot thread, is it not? 

[Commander Zane]

It was sarcasm, there's very little screenshot posting going on.

[Colonol Dekker]

Sarcasm tags must always be used when applicable.

[Woolie Wool]

As for everything else, that's your mod, and so it matters not to the discussion of the Iceni's canonical class. You could say it's been downgraded with the times (author fiat) but you cannot say the Iceni was never a frigate.

QFT!

The canonical designation of the Iceni is frigate. In discussions of the FS2 universe that is what it is. If you say otherwise you are wrong, plain and simply.

You can call it whatever you like in your own mod of course but you are going to get the same WTF reaction Hades gave because whether you like it or not you have done something rather odd when you downgraded the designation.

Well, if it means anything, the conspiracy nut (and for once, his conspiracy was real) pilot from The Romans Blunder agrees with me.

"Command, we're five clicks from that corvette! Those coordinates you gave us are bogus!"

Also the Iceni could easily deserve a new shipclass as it has a different mission (get anywhere in the face of heavy opposition) and significantly more powerful armament than its contemporaries. The model name is of dubious value to the argument as it's in only seen FRED.

The thing is that the Iceni has not been significantly downgraded; it's that destroyers have been significantly upgraded, being made tougher and more powerful than any FS2 destroyers. The Iceni's original mission no longer applies--it's now just another mid-size warship, albeit a fairly powerful one.

[Lucika]

Those Orion textures are beautiful. Can I has please?

*Lucika has joined the queue*

[Dragon]

"Command, we're five clicks from that corvette! Those coordinates you gave us are bogus!"

Well, the campaign is inconsistant about Iceni's class, it's called a frigate and then, in next mission a corvette.
Tech description says it's a frigate, but all file names and a flag call it a corvette.
And if FS used more accurate classifcation, it would be a destroyer...

[Rodo]

wow! loving the pictures just now.

I can tell some of you have already passed all finals, congrats!  

[Scotty]

The Iceni is called "Bosch's Command frigate."  That phrase does not explicitly say that the ship class is a frigate, but rather it is being used in a Frigate-type command and response position.  Table entries, as pointed out, say "corvette," and conspiracy nut wingman calls it a corvette in mission.
 
Tech descriptions (which still use that term "[NTF] command frigate,") are written as if they were "in-universe," (and the Hippocrates is called a frigate several times, no?), and every single refernce to the Iceni that actually call it a frigate say that same "[Bosch's] command frigate," most of those with a the definite article "the" in front of it of directly referencing Bosch's control over it (as in, possesive).  Nor, is it certain, does "NTF" stand for Frigate.  It could, possibly stand for "Neo Terran Front," seeing as Bosch uses it as his personal command ship.

And if FS used a more accurate classification, destroyers would be cruisers.

[Commander Zane]

And if FS used a more accurate classification, destroyers would be cruisers.

Or they'd be carriers because of the number of craft they carry.

I'm sure Dragon is speaking in terms of FreeSpace's classification system, so yes, the Iceni is more along the lines of a Destroyer in power output.

[Woolie Wool]

And if FS used a more accurate classification, destroyers would be cruisers.

I'm not sure about that, I was thinking that if you were to apply real-life ship classifications, you'd get:

Cruiser ---> Destroyer
SC Lilith --> Monitor
Corvette ---> Cruiser
NTF Iceni (FS2) ---> Heavy cruiser/Battlecruiser
Destroyer ---> Battleship/carrier (Battle-carrier?)

I'm sure Dragon is speaking in terms of FreeSpace's classification system, so yes, the Iceni is more along the lines of a Destroyer in power output.

The thing is, that in my post-Capella fleet destroyers have vastly more firepower (the Titan has an HGreen, four BGreens, five TerSlashes, and 7 heavy plasma turrets that can seriously wreck cruisers and below) and armor (320,000 hitpoints for the Titan, plus an armor type that causes it to take greatly reduced damage from weapons other than heavy beams and Helios-equivalent bombs) that the things that made the Iceni unique in FS2 no longer apply. It can't hold its own against a destroyer and is rivaled by the Raiden (2 BBlue + 2 SolSlash) and exceeded by the Moloch (1 LRed + 3 SRed) and Scylla (1 LRed + 4 SRed) in firepower. So by 2395, it's just a corvette. It's no less powerful than before, it's just that advancing technology has caught up with it.

[Scotty]

If FS used (modern) real-life ship classes, it'd be closer to:

Cruiser:  Destroyer Escort
Corvette:  Destroyer
Destroyer:  Cruiser
Superdestroyer:  Heavy Cruiser
Juggernaut/Colossus:  Dreadnaught

Iceni would probably fall under "Light Cruiser," and the ships we call battleships are no longer used, really (and were dreadnaughts to begin with).  Lilith would still be a Destroyer Escort, but would have the equivalent of an 12 inch gun on it (which, although is technically a monitor by definition, monitors haven't been in use since during WWII anywhere except Brazil.)

[Woolie Wool]

A destroyer isn't comparable to a modern cruiser because it is a command ship/flagship, which is more a role for battleships and carriers than cruisers in a real navy. A destroyer is FreeSpace's version of a battleship, while "superdestroyers" (I prefer "dreadnoughts" as it sounds less silly) and juggernauts don't really have any real-life counterpart.

[Scotty]

If there were any kind of comparable Cruiser role ship in FS, I would agree with you.  However, neither Cruisers nor Battleships are a good fit, since Carriers are more frequently command ships for battlegroups.  As it is, Destroyers are armed too heavily to be classified simply carriers, but are not quite heavily armed enough compared to BIG ships to be called Battleships/Dreadnaughts (which really are the same thing.  The HMS Dreadnaught, which lent its name to the class, was in actuality a battlecruiser, known as battleships over on this side of the pond.)  Therefore, they fit most comfortably in the role of cruiser, that is, being the muscle, but not being as big as the really big ships, which are arguably Juggernauts (aka Dreadnaughts).  The designation of cruiser actually makes more sense when you look at the label of Superdestroyer.  Seeing as Heavy Cruisers are just bigger, heavier cruisers, Superdestroyers are just bigger, heavier destroyers.  The parallel still exists.

[Commander Zane]

Just because a FreeSpace Destroyer is too heavily armed to be a Carrier doesn't mean it should be a Cruiser, those are two COMPLETELY DIFFERENT functionalities, the FreeSpace Destroyers are Carriers if you used real comparisons because of their funtionality. If anything the FreeSpace Corvettes should be Cruisers.