Hard Light Productions Forums
Hosted Projects - Standalone => Diaspora => Topic started by: General Battuta on October 07, 2011, 10:44:23 am
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Raise a glass to the BSG ModDB presence. (http://i.somethingawful.com/forumsystem/emoticons/emot-smith.gif)
Kara, you champing stallion of manhood, assure me this: it's just a ModDB takedown thing, right? Not a cease and desist?
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I talked to Kara earlier today, and he didn't know what happened yet. Unless he found out something in the last few hours, we still don't know what happened, and to the best of my knowledge we haven't received any c&d's. Would be a bit strange if it happened now, as Universal has known about Diaspora for quite some time and some of us were even hired to work on the official game.
I can't even be sure this has anything to do with Universal, though it does seem like a probable scenario. What would they have to gain by pulling a bunch of non profit mods off a modding site well after the official game has been released is beyond me, though.
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oh noes, hope everything isn't all balls up.
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AFAIK the ModDB simply decided to purge anything which hadn't been updated in 4-5 months. Until I receive confirmation that it was due to something else, that's why I'd imagine it's gone.
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welp
http://www.moddb.com/forum/thread/calling-out-to-all-battlestar-galactica-modders/#693027
Not exactly confirmation but indicative, I guess? Every single BSG mod gone but stuff like Black Mesa Source and TBP, which haven't updated in a while, still fine. :blah:
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What does this mean for Diaspora?
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Hopefully nothing. There are several reasons why this might have happened at ModDB without it neccesariy affecting here, such as ModDB being run by a for-profit enterprise, or an overreaction by ModDB to a C&D delivered to an unrelated Battlestar mod (who may have done something more specific to irritate NBC).
Of course, that might be the wrong direction entirely. NBC might be coming for you Diaspora guys. Better hurry up and release, get the genie out of the bottle before NBC put a permanent cork on it. :p
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One thing I've always wondered about projects that legitimately do get shut down because of legal bull**** is why it seems like no one ever goes ahead and finishes things up in private anyway, even if it's just to pass around to a few friends via closed downloads. There's obviously no stopping that particular method, and at least all of that work doesn't go to waste. Then maybe you wait several months to a year, maybe the mod "appears" on some file-sharing site, and voila. No way to prove that the original team authorized the release or even created the content themselves, so the fans get what they want, and the lawyers don't have any recourse.
(Obviously, I sincerely hope that nothing like that will have to apply to Diaspora.)
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One thing I've always wondered about projects that legitimately do get shut down because of legal bull**** is why it seems like no one ever goes ahead and finishes things up in private anyway, even if it's just to pass around to a few friends via closed downloads. There's obviously no stopping that particular method, and at least all of that work doesn't go to waste. Then maybe you wait several months to a year, maybe the mod "appears" on some file-sharing site, and voila. No way to prove that the original team authorized the release or even created the content themselves, so the fans get what they want, and the lawyers don't have any recourse.
(Obviously, I sincerely hope that nothing like that will have to apply to Diaspora.)
Or move the project to a Russian server. :p
But, hopefully this is just a hiccup.
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Hopefully nothing. There are several reasons why this might have happened at ModDB without it neccesariy affecting here, such as ModDB being run by a for-profit enterprise, or an overreaction by ModDB to a C&D delivered to an unrelated Battlestar mod (who may have done something more specific to irritate NBC).
Whatever the cause, I must say that I'm immensely disappointed by the way ModDB handled things. It would not have taken much effort for them to have sent an email to the project leads saying what had happened. Instead it seems I have to send them a letter asking them what happened and wait over 24 hours for a response.
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Apparently they did notify the Nexus guys it was due to an NBC copyright claim. Why didn't we get the same treatment, I fail to understand.
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Perhaps one mod did something unfortunate (used a non-free asset) and got warned, ModDB flipped out and dumped bsg?
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If I might pose a... perhaps silly?.. hypothesis, might it be that the Nexus mod would not result in a stand-alone product, and that the source product (Nexus itself) would require the end user to purchase a licence for the game? Diaspora will not match that criteria, as the game will be completely stand-alone, and a price cannot legally be applied to the software regardless.
That said, if the BSG mods were being canned due to concerns of profit infringement for Bigpoint's MMO (which Diaspora might still be a case thereof), Diaspora at least does not divert actual monetary assets from that product. Well, besides the point of not bothering to play said MMO...
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That said, if the BSG mods were being canned due to concerns of profit infringement for Bigpoint's MMO (which Diaspora might still be a case thereof), Diaspora at least does not divert actual monetary assets from that product. Well, besides the point of not bothering to play said MMO...
If that was the motivation, it's pretty silly. BGO has been out for quite some time and has already lived through it's "new and exciting" phase. If they were concerned a bunch of non profit mods that aren't out yet would infringe on their profits, it would have made sense to act before BGO came out. Not go hiring artists from said mods and then have them removed from moddb months after BGO came out.
Anyway, if this stops just at moddb it's all good. And for now it seems to me that's indeed the case.
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Has anyone contacted NBC already? (I assume so, just curious)
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Why draw the attention, don't poke the sleeping dragon. For you are crunchy and go good with ketchup.
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Why draw the attention, don't poke the sleeping dragon. For you are crunchy and go good with ketchup.
The legal bods at NBC will be aware of the mod. It is what they are paid for.
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http://kotaku.com/5848073/takedown-notice-sends-battlestar-galactica-modders-fleeing-from-the-nbc-university-tyranny
Kotaku's gotten around to picking up the issue...
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The legal bods at NBC will be aware of the mod. It is what they are paid for.
These are the same people who are getting paid to piss off their fans? Maybe it's time they stopped getting paid. NBCU should fire the dumbasses.
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Sorry to hear about this - I saw the article in the Escapist and decided I should check in. It's good to know that Diaspora has not received a cease and desist.
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Let it be known, that using an IP you do not own will eventually lead to your closure after significant growth.
Sounds like they're outright saying if your project is based on others' IP, it's gonna get shut down.
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I've called that particular admin on his unprofessional attitude already.
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Good to hear :yes:
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That statement's full of ****, too, considering how many huge IPs turn a blind eye to, or even outright encourage, freely-released fan content. Hell, both Star Wars and Star Trek have each generated full-fledged fan films/series, not to mention dozens of game mods.
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Frankly Kara... I expect the thread @ModDB to be locked soon with the excuse that they've said all they are going to say,
the rules are their rules, don't let the door smack you on the way out. By the guy's tone, they aren't going to budge.
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I know, that's why I thought 'd go for the throat and point out that his attitude was suggesting that no mod based on those universes should use Desura.
Once it starts affecting THEM personally, they might start to care.
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So you haven't been contacted by NBC so far, right?
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Nope.
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Any chance you guy might avoid the purge? I mean, some of you helped make a game of theirs IIRC.
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Whose? The ModDB's? NBC Universal's? Neither option is likely to either be offered or accepted anyway.
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Well this is all going tits up isn't it?! :confused:
What is the contingency for when and if you get the c&d?
Move to a Russian server and carry on as if nothings happened (is this feasible)?
Release the half finished mod on torrent?
Swap all the models out and call it something else?
Call it a day and go outside and play instead?
:banghead:
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Hasn't come to that yet, and probably won't. So far it would seem to be limited to moddb, and if it remains that way the actual damage will be minimal.
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Right. With any luck, this is more about moddb trying to make money (and therefore getting a lot more scrutiny about what they're allowed to host) than about the mods themselves. Until someone knocks on our door, we're moving right ahead. It's certainly given us motivation to hurry up, though, before anything does get complicated. :)
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Interesting, it appears that the ModDB DID reply, they just sent it to the obscure, rarely used webmail address I used to sign up rather than their own internal email for some bizarre reason
Hi Karajorma,
Sorry about the lack of a response, basically a law firm representing NBCU
contacted us regarding this mod:
http://www.moddb.com/mods/nexus-battlestar-galactica
We comply with all IP/takedown requests so as a result we removed the mod
profile and were advised to do so with all other BSG content. At this stage
there isn't anything more to it, and we are unable to do anything unless
NBCU allows fan-made content, or BSG content is removed from your game.
Regards,
Scott Reismanis
Founder, End Boss
DesuraNET Pty Ltd
(310) 933-5640
[email protected]
http://www.moddb.com
http://www.indiedb.com
http://www.desura.com
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An odd thought - I wonder if this was precipitated by the video on Kotaku that used the very recognizable "Watchtower" music rather than something original.
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It's possible, but doesn't matter much either way now.
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Whenever a company does this, it shoots itself in the foot. Fan-made content is the best kind of compliment and support you can get, especially when you know it's 100% free. It brings in many more customers and thus much more revenue. Oh well.. Hope Diaspora won't have to shut down.
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The problem arises from the fact that the people in legal departments that deal with this sort of thing know jack about modding communities, and what they do. So if you have a misfortune of running into someone short sighted and ignorant enough who's out to impress the boss by stomping on "copyright infringement", then this sort of thing happens.
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I've said elsewhere that I think the best response to this would be to work out exactly how much it would cost to get adverts in places like The Escapist and Kotaku and then send a whole cost projection estimate to the PR/Advertising department at Universal with a cover note asking them why the legal department thought this was a good idea. :p
Fans arguing with legal will probably get ignored. Advertising Dept arguing with Legal Dept is a completely different matter.
Unfortunately we'd need someone who works in advertising to work this sort of thing out professionally, I doubt they'd pay any attention to the sort of thing an amateur could put together.
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Kara, I am already working on that.. I have a friend who worked ads/PR with me for Alienware, and Dell (ienware). She has tons of knowledge in this field, especially in regards to IP's and the like. I will PM you with ANY information she can provide that may help. She is also a huge BTRL/Diaspora fan and is quite pissed about this..
That is, if you think it's necessary. Please let us know!
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It would help us a lot, artee, we'd be grateful for exactly that!
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Yep, that's exactly what I meant. If she needs any information about where BtRL/Diaspora has been featured tell her to not hesitate to contact us.
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Well, crap.
Is the text of the law firm's comminuqué available anywhere? Part of me wonders whether this was caused by a hotshot lawyer trying to make a name for himself, and acting on his own initiative rather than any orders from above. The timing doesn't seem related to any particular event that would have triggered sudden attention from NBC, and the phrase "we were advised to pull all other BSG content" strikes me as suspiciously open-ended.
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Actually it happened less than a week after Kotaku featured the Nexus mod (the ones who the C&D was actually aimed at).
The request appears to have come from a law firm representing NBCU rather than NBCU itself so the hotshot theory is possible.
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Ace&Hall Legal Services Ltd.
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Ace&Hall Legal Services Ltd.
More like Ass & Hole Unlimited
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That's pretty much what I meant.. I have no idea what the company is really called :P
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In that case I will buy a vowel. Probably should not be posting on this amount of sleep.
p.s.-- go diaspora! You show those corporofascists how a real game is made
p.p.s.-- the secret is more dakka
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More dakka? Usually more dakka is the best thing ever, but right now Diaspora is threatening to break FreeSpace Open with all the dakka it adds. The only solution is for Valathil and Swifty to modify FSO to accept more dakka.
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More dakka? Usually more dakka is the best thing ever, but right now Diaspora is threatening to break FreeSpace Open with all the dakka it adds. The only solution is for Valathil and Swifty to modify FSO to accept more dakka.
You don't know how unfortunately true this is. :( The number of weapon particles seriously strains the object limits.
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The one already bumped, or a different one?
Anyway, I'd welcome any increase in limits (since I'm a fan of more dakka too).
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Kara, newman, I want this mod to get off the ground as much as you do, therefore I'll do whatever the hell I can to help. Please send me a PM with YOUR description/intentions with the mod, and how this is NON-PROFIT/FREE and I'll go from there. I'll have information for you as she gives it to me.
Thanks guys! Trying to get you answers ASAP
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of this one (http://www.moddb.com/mods/galactica-20) i know, it is not quite active, but it exists and is quite advanced. somehow they overlooked it.
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this borders on outrageous, if not downright ridiculous!
I'm sorry to say so (well actually, not that much), but diaspora and BTRL are amongst the best things that ever did happen to BSG fan communities, given the fact that current trends seem to overlook the potential an official BSG space sim would have (and not that isometric shooter crap).
now would be the time for some people to add two and two...
Anyhow, I think this fabulous community of which I am proud to now be a member deserves unlimited amounts of thanks (possibly veneration/adulation) for taking space sim in general (BSG included) to the always thought to be impossible to reach next level!
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Amazingly ridiculous SMH.....
I hope the attorney handling this crap ends up fired for bad PR lmao!!
NBC really isn't doing itself any favors the last 10 years treating communities and fans like this.
I do not see Diaspora having any issues from it.
Plenty of Torrent shares to keep the stuff alive anyhow.
I got space for it too =)
Keep up the great work gents!!
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Although this doesn't prevent anything, it complicates things in a certain way, and spoils a bit the party...
I do not want to sound pessimistic, but it will be very difficult to change their minds...
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The more I think about it, the more I think it's really a strange attitude to ban a mod under the pretext that it can be a concurrency if any, for its own game This means that if someone does not like my game, I prefer him to go enrich concurrency (rather than allowing free play in a similar game) ?
It's a strange approach ... Unless it is a story of intellectual property, the strict (and stupid) enforcement of a right, without discernment... which could be more easily negotiable than a matter of concurrency...
It's irritating not to know which way came the shot, or who is holding the gun !
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Is there any chance of an update? have you had the c&d yet?
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If we get one, you'll know.
In the meanwhile I apologise if these events mean we go quieter than usual. It doesn't mean we're dead.
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yep! better safe than sorry!