cutting the SSD is a MUCH better way to cut the cost. drastic reduction in price plus huge gain in storage space, only at the cost of loading time.
$40 less for double the storage sounds like a hell of a deal to me. and last i checked, online prices are still overinflated compared to physical retailers from the flood nearly a year ago. unless waiting 15 seconds for windows to load instead of 5 or whatever an SSD does it in REALLY bothers you, the performance impact of a traditional HDD is negligible next to stepping down the vid card.
only at the cost of loading time.
i know perfectly well what it does. reduce load times. let me go back and read my original post again.Quoteonly at the cost of loading time.
yep there it is.
i picked the loading windows example because typically it's the biggest offender. the rest, except for copying huge files, is trivial. and if you're copying files to a different disk which is the norm at least for me, you're limited by the other drive anyway. in games or general OS responsiveness, there is ZERO perceptible load lag from my budget-level 1TB HDD. game levels load so fast i can never read the hint text or see whatever built-in splash screen is there to cover the load pause. i have a hybrid disk in my laptop (bought it on sale for cheaper than i could get a 2.5" normal HDD), which operates effectively as a SSD based on how i use my laptop. i'm not talking completely out of my ass here. windows load time was cut in about half, no perceptible change anywhere else. i even went so far as to benchmark it with PCmark before and after, because i was curious as to the real improvement myself. windows startup was the only thing that changed in any significant way.
to get back on a more productive note with this post, Venicius, if you don't mind the extra cost and don't need the file space, sure, go ahead and buy a SSD. I'm only saying if you want to get the cost down, it's a place to do it with the least performance impact possible. yes, you can overclock the card, but getting it stable all the way to the higher-tier clocks is somewhat rare, and you can't overclock in the additional stream processors.
Wow, thanks guys! I'll look at those videos and see what's involved in building a computer. Oh, does it matter what case or is it just that the case with the link has more bays in it?
I was just thinking about cutting costs a little with a slightly less expensive case.
Those videos are awesome; totally bookmarking them for if/when I have the money to build something. :yes:
after having done that particular thing more than 8 or 9 times, i can say that a much scarier moment is prying the heatsink off of the cpu. nothing gives you a lovely heart attack as removing a heatsink only to find the cpu is stuck to it. lesson learned? scythe thermal gunk might as well be plastic cement.
If going with an aftermarket cooler, always, and i mean ALWAYS buy a decent syringe of thermal paste.
Arctic Cooling's MX-2 has proven very good for CPU's so far, after applying it to 5 cpu's, still got enough for 3 more applications. its also extremely easy to clean up after removal.
MX-3 has proven gloriously awesome as a GPU paste. bad part was that i needed the whole syringe for my particular gpu... (dont ask for explanation, yes, it was neccesary, and yes, i did require the whole ****ing syringe for it)
in general, i find the rule of pinky nail for the amount to be quite decent for CPU's. (if the glob of thermal paste is around the size of your pinky's nail and 2-3mm thick, you've got enough for AMD cpu's. bit less is needed for Intel's, since they have a bit smaller surface area)
after having done that particular thing more than 8 or 9 times, i can say that a much scarier moment is prying the heatsink off of the cpu. nothing gives you a lovely heart attack as removing a heatsink only to find the cpu is stuck to it. lesson learned? scythe thermal gunk might as well be plastic cement.
If going with an aftermarket cooler, always, and i mean ALWAYS buy a decent syringe of thermal paste.
Arctic Cooling's MX-2 has proven very good for CPU's so far, after applying it to 5 cpu's, still got enough for 3 more applications. its also extremely easy to clean up after removal.
MX-3 has proven gloriously awesome as a GPU paste. bad part was that i needed the whole syringe for my particular gpu... (dont ask for explanation, yes, it was neccesary, and yes, i did require the whole ****ing syringe for it)
in general, i find the rule of pinky nail for the amount to be quite decent for CPU's. (if the glob of thermal paste is around the size of your pinky's nail and 2-3mm thick, you've got enough for AMD cpu's. bit less is needed for Intel's, since they have a bit smaller surface area)
I've had that happen 3 times with my CPU so far. And yes, it gives you a heart attack.
Fortunetly, the CPU I suggested is an LGA socket 1155. The pins are on the board, then you put in the CPU, then a metal frame closes tightly over the edge to lock it in place, then you put the cooler on. No more ripping out the CPU. But still, always twist, then pull.
Also, Corsair puts some really nice paste on their coolers, so don't worry about it the first time, but do buy one just in case.
thermal paste is far easier to deal with than most how-tos make it out. sure, if you want to get every tiny little fraction of a degree temperature drop possible, you have to be really meticulous in using it, but for just it's basic use, all you have to do is squirt enough on the heatsink base so that you get full coverage and press it on. dot of the stuff in the center usually does it. too much thickness will degrade performance ever so slightly, but as long as it's covering the whole heat spreader you're good. if you're worried about not getting an even/full spread, you can spread it yourself with an index card or something before sticking it on.as i've said, the pinky nail rule for the amount of goop to drop in the center has proven to be a very good measure.
i've never paid for the fancy stuff like arctic silver, but the stock stuff that came with my CM hyper 212+ works just fine. overclocked to 4.6, stressing with prime95/intel burn test maxes out at 70C.
all that said, if you're not going to be overclocking, you don't need an aftermarket heatsink, and you can just not deal with it at all. intel's stock coolers have pre-applied paste.
with the mugen3, temps dropped to 30 on idle and maybe up to 50 when going full on the useage. and this is with keeping the fan at minimum speed at all times, to avoid much noise. Intel's stock coolers are damn good, no doubt about that, its just that my cpu is either at the upper bound of what they can handle (the infamous TDP), or i got a non-i7 stock cooler with it, which is also possible, since i'm the second owner of the cpu...
arent those scythe's coolers anyhow? i remember vaguely something about amd contracting scythe or some other manufacturer for their stock's.with the mugen3, temps dropped to 30 on idle and maybe up to 50 when going full on the useage. and this is with keeping the fan at minimum speed at all times, to avoid much noise. Intel's stock coolers are damn good, no doubt about that, its just that my cpu is either at the upper bound of what they can handle (the infamous TDP), or i got a non-i7 stock cooler with it, which is also possible, since i'm the second owner of the cpu...
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Noooooo, Intel stock coolers suck ass. You want a good stock cooler? You look at AMD's 125w Phenom II coolers:
(http://imageshack.us/a/img43/7157/40681569.png)
Direct contact copper base, heat pipes, a "good" (for stock) fan... They had to keep a 125w TDP under 63C, remmeber, not Intel's 90w TDP under 90C. Much better cooler. On a Llano, Trinity, or Athlon II chip you could consider this aftermarket cooling.
EDIT: Oh, and the fan is replaceable if you really want to. (http://imageshack.us/a/img708/8333/60705216.png)
arent those scythe's coolers anyhow? i remember vaguely something about amd contracting scythe or some other manufacturer for their stock's.
in any case we are debating semantics anyhow :p
also, dont make me pull out the crap that amd 7750 BE's stock cooler was. thats a 125W TDP cpu as well :p (the normal 7750 is 95, BE is 125)
(also, upon reading on intel's site, my cpu is at 95W TDP, so it makes sense if the coolers are rated for up to 90W. you got to give it to intel however, they've done one hell of a job making them small and silent yet still capable of cooling monster cpu's decently)
I was incredibly paranoid about cooling my first build, so this is what I came up with:
Intel i5-2500K (i3's are the suck, i7's are mostly overkill for gaming)
Biostar TZ77B LGA1155 mobo
8GB G.skill Ripjaws X @ 2133MHz
OCZ Agility 3 120GB SSHD
PowerColor Radeon HD6850
Corsair H60 closed-loop water cooler
Apevia 680W PSU
NZXT Source 210 case, plus an extra fan
All for $762 on the nose. I've since added a WD Caviar Blue 1TB HDD since I like to download YouTube videos and watch them at my leisure without the annoyances, but if it wasn't for that I would have been fine with the SSHD. Unless you do video editing or something (or you're a rampant pirate, yarr), mega high capacity drives are /probably/ unnecessary. But again, you can always add more HDDs.
One thing to keep in mind if you build your own PC: airflow airflow airflow. Even pre-built PC manufacturers are terrible at this. Hurr durr let's make the side fan exhaust so there's no cool air blowing over the mobo and no cool air for the CPU cooler to draw over the heatsink! Great idea!
Don't overthink it but ideally you want to do a couple of things:
1) The motherboard needs cool air. There are a few hotspots (the northbridge and southbridge, for you savvy ones) that really should be cooled.
2) Your CPU cooler NEEDS an inflow of cool air to work properly. If there's nothing but hot air circulating in the case, it can't magically cool it down before it blows it through the heatsink.
3) Your graphics card? Same thing. Most of them suck in air through the fan and blow it out the back of the case. If they're sucking in warm air, they're not gonna work well, and modern GPUs get hot.
4) Don't fight convection, goddammit. Hot air rises. Cool air sinks. High school freshman science there. Exhaust out the top of the case, intake near the bottom. Make sure your fans aren't fighting nature. Nature always wins. Also make sure they aren't fighting each other.
5) DUST. If the place you live has lots of dust, or especially pets, you may want to consider air filters, or a positive-pressure cooling setup (basically means there's more intake than exhaust, which makes the inside of the case slightly pressurized - any little screw holes/gaps, instead of letting dust in, will constantly be venting air instead). It sounds complicated, but it's really not. More fans blowing in than fans blowing out, assuming they're the same size, of course. Also, forgot commercial air filters. They kill airflow. I've been using...wait for it...dryer sheets. Yes, those little guys you throw in the dryer to kill static.
If a first-timer like me can figure all this out, I'm sure OP can. This is probably the most intelligent and computer savvy community I've been a (small) part of. Good luck! If you decide to build, that is, OP.
You're correct in that the 77 is an Ivy Bridge mobo, but that's precisely why I got it - if I want to upgrade to an Ivy Bridge chip, I can drop it in instead of getting an entirely new mobo. It's worth it to spend a little more to give yourself room to upgrade, or at least that was my line of thinking.
i3s don't have a large enough cache, and I think it's worth it to get an unlocked CPU. Overclocking isn't rocket surgery (the i5-2500K doesn't need any voltage tweaks to run up to 4.6 GHz), and it's a good way to get more bang for your buck out of a CPU. Since most applications don't really take advantage of the MOAR CORES mania going around, clock speed is important. From this point on I'd always recommend going into the BIOS and disabling dynamic clock speeds anyway (since the system is monumentally retarded about allocating resources), so changing the multiplier from 33 to 46 isn't that much of a stretch from there. :D
You're correct in that the 77 is an Ivy Bridge mobo, but that's precisely why I got it - if I want to upgrade to an Ivy Bridge chip, I can drop it in instead of getting an entirely new mobo. It's worth it to spend a little more to give yourself room to upgrade, or at least that was my line of thinking.
i3s don't have a large enough cache, and I think it's worth it to get an unlocked CPU. Overclocking isn't rocket surgery (the i5-2500K doesn't need any voltage tweaks to run up to 4.6 GHz), and it's a good way to get more bang for your buck out of a CPU. Since most applications don't really take advantage of the MOAR CORES mania going around, clock speed is important. From this point on I'd always recommend going into the BIOS and disabling dynamic clock speeds anyway (since the system is monumentally retarded about allocating resources), so changing the multiplier from 33 to 46 isn't that much of a stretch from there. :D
While you are 100% correct with this, that overclock will mean nothing paired with a 6850. :p 2500k/3570k at 4.6 typically support dual 7950/670 setups with ease.
You're correct in that the 77 is an Ivy Bridge mobo, but that's precisely why I got it - if I want to upgrade to an Ivy Bridge chip, I can drop it in instead of getting an entirely new mobo. It's worth it to spend a little more to give yourself room to upgrade, or at least that was my line of thinking.
i3s don't have a large enough cache, and I think it's worth it to get an unlocked CPU. Overclocking isn't rocket surgery (the i5-2500K doesn't need any voltage tweaks to run up to 4.6 GHz), and it's a good way to get more bang for your buck out of a CPU. Since most applications don't really take advantage of the MOAR CORES mania going around, clock speed is important. From this point on I'd always recommend going into the BIOS and disabling dynamic clock speeds anyway (since the system is monumentally retarded about allocating resources), so changing the multiplier from 33 to 46 isn't that much of a stretch from there. :D
While you are 100% correct with this, that overclock will mean nothing paired with a 6850. :p 2500k/3570k at 4.6 typically support dual 7950/670 setups with ease.
Actually, it's been quite helpful in Sins of a Solar Empire late-game. Friggin' trade ships. :D
Edit: Also getting a new GPU at some point soon. Like I said, I built this thing to be easily upgrade-able.
why do you keep giving him advice on what he's already built?
what do you think of AMD processors? are they about the same as Intel or lesser?
It'd be mostly for gaming...and I"d rather upgrade parts than get a whole new computer.
And give you a lot of trouble with FSO, as a side note.
about the ssd...if I was to use my laptop hard drive for now, how simple would it be to transfer from the hard drive to an ssd when I finally did get one?
That's pretty much what I did - I used an old laptop HDD in tandem with my SSHD, before I got a new HDD. Just install Windows on the SSHD and make sure the BIOS knows to boot to it first.
Some stuff on the old hard drive might be unusable due to missing registry entries and whatnot, but most programs have "repair" options in the setup that'll fix it up. It's much less hassle than the other options, IMO, one of which would be reinstalling everything from scratch. I wouldn't suggest just mirroring the old HDD onto the SSHD - if you get a SSHD as a system drive only, which is still the only cost-effective use of one at the moment, you're not going to want much of anything on the SSHD. Just your OS of choice, browser of choice, and maybe a few programs that you want to be extra fast, but only IF you have plenty of room to spare.
There are a few important things to know about SSHDs if you get one, so if you wind up with one, let us know.
Might be interested in this (http://thessdreview.com/ssd-guides/optimization-guides/the-ssd-optimization-guide-2/) for SSDs.