[Qent]

I think it needs to be made clear that the SCP has no maps. FreeSpace Open is retail compatible. That is one of its main goals. If INFR1 is retail compatible, then it is also FSO compatible. If it is retail compatible and not FSO compatible, then that is an FSO bug.

The MediaVPs have maps. They break compatibility with mods that relied on specific resources in previous versions of the MVPs. They do not break compatibility with mods that do not use the MVPs. But INFR1 doesn't need to bother with the MVPs. It would take way more than MVP maps to make INFR1 look "up to standards."

[Woomeister]

I think it needs to be made clear that the SCP has no maps. FreeSpace Open is retail compatible. That is one of its main goals. If INFR1 is retail compatible, then it is also FSO compatible. If it is retail compatible and not FSO compatible, then that is an FSO bug.

The Media VPs have maps. They break compatibility with mods that relied on specific resources in previous versions of the MVPs. They do not break compatibility with mods that do not use the MVPs. It would take way more than MVP maps to make INFR1 look "up to standards."

capital01-01a in retail is capital01-01 in the mediavps
so if one of our ships uses capital01-01a it loads from the retail VP while the mediavp models load capital01-01. When you view both ships together it looks terrible, so we'd have to edit all our models that use capital01-01a to use capital01-01 just to bring it up to decent standard. We'd have to do this for all capships except the EA and Ancient ones.
This is the mediavps fault not ours as they change that themselves, since anyone using SCP is going to run off the mediavps we have to make it conform to them which requires nearly everything to be editied.

[Dragon]

Well, maybe simply put a note that this mod doesn't use Mediavps and the installer is retail only (in big, honkin' letters).
Tell FSO users to use FSO installer (is it fixed already?).
As for "why you won't update it" requests, the answer is "we are working on it right now". INFR1U is exactly about bringing INFR1 up to standards.

[The E]

I think it needs to be made clear that the SCP has no maps. FreeSpace Open is retail compatible. That is one of its main goals. If INFR1 is retail compatible, then it is also FSO compatible. If it is retail compatible and not FSO compatible, then that is an FSO bug.

The Media VPs have maps. They break compatibility with mods that relied on specific resources in previous versions of the MVPs. They do not break compatibility with mods that do not use the MVPs. But INFR1 doesn't need to bother with the MVPs. It would take way more than MVP maps to make INFR1 look "up to standards."

Qent, the problem is that the INFR1 install instructions tell people to put the INF_main.vp in their main FS2 dir. This works in retail, but it WILL cause issues with every other FreeSpace campaign out there, including the retail campaign. That, my friend, is NOT an issue the SCP can or wants to fix, it's an issue with INFR1's install instructions.

[Qent]

capital01-01a in retail is capital01-01 in the mediavps
so if one of our ships uses capital01-01a it loads from the retail VP while the mediavp models load capital01-01. When you view both ships together it looks terrible, so we'd have to edit all our models that use capital01-01a to use capital01-01 just to bring it up to decent standard. We'd have to do this for all capships except the EA and Ancient ones.
This is the mediavps fault not ours as they change that themselves, since anyone using SCP is going to run off the mediavps we have to make it conform to them which requires nearly everything to be editied.

No, it doesn't look that terrible. Maybe some people will post to complain, maybe not. Even if they do, "Help, it doesn't look right" is easier to deal with than "Help, FSO crashes and I don't even have any mods enabled."

No, anyone using FSO will not run off the MediaVPs unless you specifically provide a mod.ini that makes that the default. Since INFR1 is a retail campaign, there is no need to do that. If they decide to create the mod.ini themselves, then they know exactly what they are doing and the risks involved.

[Woomeister]

Actually I just checked the SCP patch readme

The installer should of created a new folder named INFR1 in your root FS2 directory. The following files should be there:

INF_2Patch.vp - The main patch file
INFV15.txt - This file

The default commandline to run the mod (if the installation was not changed) is -mod INFR1

To successfully run Inferno using the -mod commandline, it is recommended to move INF_Main.vp or the multiple VP files into this directory as well.
It is recommended that you start a new pilot to avoid any crashes or errors.

So either people aren't reading that readme, or they have another version of the patch not produced by us.

[The E]

Or, they are using the unpatched versions. Those installers _still_ put the files in the main dir.

[Woomeister]

Yeah, but since the download page says "Patch to allow R1 to work under the standard version of The Souce Code Project" then it's not my fault if they are not downloading that, reading the readme included and moving the INF mod to the right place. Without the patch it won't work if it was in the right place anyway.

[The E]

...

Okay, I don't know if you've noticed, but users, in general, are stupid. Handing them guns will result in them shooting themselves in the foot.

Why are you offering separate downloads for the main pack and the patch? It would be easier to just pack it up in one package, and include a readme saying "If you want to play this on retail, you need to do this:...".

[Qent]

Without the patch it won't work if it was in the right place anyway.

And why is that? It would have to be a bug in either INR1 or FSO.

[Woomeister]

Why are you offering separate downloads for the main pack and the patch? It would be easier to just pack it up in one package, and include a readme saying "If you want to play this on retail, you need to do this:...".

Because the main file is the original release version for RETAIL, like I said it was never rebuilt at any point, hence the install in root instructions in the readme. The SCP patch readme tells you to move it into the INFR1 folder that the patch installer creates inside the FS2 directory.

And why is that? It would have to be a bug in either INR1 or FSO.

R1 without the patch gives over 60 debug warnings, this is what the patch fixes. Without it FSOpen won't start, though the patch only fixes issues up to 3.5.5 so I'm not sure if any later parsing changes to make the debugger more sensitive would cause any more to show up.

[The E]

The issue is that the icons.tbl in INFR1 is malformed. I have no idea why this worked on retail, but fixing it for FSO would mean not doing as strict an error-checking as we are doing right now. IPAndrews wanted us to do the same thing when we told him to fix bugs that 3.6.9 didn't report, but that 3.6.10 screamed about.

Oh, and Qent, you seem to have misunderstood the SCP mission statement. The only guideline we have is that FreeSpace 2 will always run with retail data only. We do not and can not make guarantees for mods like Inferno.

Why are you offering separate downloads for the main pack and the patch? It would be easier to just pack it up in one package, and include a readme saying "If you want to play this on retail, you need to do this:...".

Because the main file is the original release version for RETAIL, like I said it was never rebuilt at any point, hence the install in root instructions in the readme. The SCP patch readme tells you to move it into the INFR1 folder that the patch installer creates inside the FS2 directory.

... I give up. I've explained this several times in this thread already. I have proposed a solution for this. You have still not given a reason why it's impossible for you to repackage the downloads so that it's impossible to get the INFR1 main release without also getting the patch.

And why is that? It would have to be a bug in either INR1 or FSO.

R1 without the patch gives over 60 debug warnings, this is what the patch fixes. Without it FSOpen won't start, though the patch only fixes issues up to 3.5.5 so I'm not sure if any later parsing changes to make the debugger more sensitive would cause any more to show up.

The only issues that are remaining with the patch in place are null MOI warnings on almost all capital ships.

[Woomeister]

Like I said if we were going as far as to repackage it we'd have to fix the problems like the mediavp compatability and the MOI issues so that we don't get complaints about that version being broken still.

[The E]

So instead of distributing a version that is outdated, but doesn't hurt anyone, you want to distribute it in a way that is guaranteed to cause problems? Fine. Do as you like. Be aware that any further support issues caused by this will be immediately punted here. It's your mess, you clean it up.

[Woomeister]

No like I said I can remove the links from the INFSCP page and so stop distributing it, but I'm not producing another version unless its brought up to standard. But of course I can't do anything about the 8 or so mirrors of it across the internet, since I didn't make those.

[The E]

Okay. I am sorry for any offense caused, but topics like these tend to get me blood boiling.

[Woomeister]

Ok http://inferno.hard-light.net/ now gives you the option of directly going to INFR1U or INFAs sites, and I've removed the INFSCP-R1 page in case people had direct links to it.

I'll make a better navigation page later 

[Rampage]

We will take your points into consideration.  As for now, please close this thread; it has outlived its usefulness.

Where's a good unicorn when you need one.