[blowfish]

I don't think has given us an answer to that, but I believe that ST:R will attempt to answer that question.

[ShadowGorrath]

SOC and GTVI answer only to the security council. Same does command. So if you don't like to agree with me that SOC is higher in rank than command, than at least agree that they are the same rank. But SOC still get's special permissions and stuff.

[Akalabeth Angel]

SOC and GTVI answer only to the security council. Same does command. So if you don't like to agree with me that SOC is higher in rank than command, than at least agree that they are the same rank. But SOC still get's special permissions and stuff.

        You have any in-game evidence?
        I'll agree when I see it, not before.

[ShadowGorrath]

*sigh*

The structure of GTVA. Who else can Command answer to other than the Security Council? And SOC with GTVI get special permissions cause they're working on different things - something that needs special permissions.

[Mobius]

Giving the importance of their missions I guess they take precedence.

Many things in FS are stereotyped, search elsewhere what the game doesn't say.

[Snail]

        You have any in-game evidence?
        I'll agree when I see it, not before.

In-game evidence is not needed. It's common sense.

32 years ago, you just had a full-scale rebellion led by your intelligence-gathering service (Hades rebellion). It completely destabilized the entire GTA from that point, and that government collapsed in on itself.

Now that you've rebuilt, do you go and create your own separate government for your military taskforce? No. The military is led by the Security Council, which is a civilian thing. The politicians control the military. The military don't control themselves. Seriously.

[Akalabeth Angel]

*sigh*

The structure of GTVA. Who else can Command answer to other than the Security Council? And SOC with GTVI get special permissions cause they're working on different things - something that needs special permissions.

     So in other words, your answer is "no, I have no evidence that SOC has the same rank as Command". Thanks for your enlightening OPINION. Quote time:

BETAC dismantled the governments of the Terran blocs and recognized the General Assembly, the Security Council, and the Vasudan Imperium as the supreme authorities of Terran-Vasudan space.

Under BETAC, the Vasudans and the Terrans maintain separate fleets under a single command structure. A warship is designated GT or GV, indicating whether it is Galactic Terran or Galactic Vasudan. The two species openly exchange information and technology, and the most recent fighters and bombers can be modified to accommodate pilots of either species.

     What does this tell us, there is Vasudan and Terran fleets and the command structure that goes with it but ultimately they're all under one Command structure.

You have volunteered for a covert assignment with Special Operations Command (SOC), in conjunction with Galactic Terran-Vasudan Intelligence (GTVI).

     What does  tell us? That the SOC is not a part of the GTVI. The GTVI is an intelligence gathering service, they're probably not a military force persay but instead are a special branch answerable to the security council. However this makes it clear that the SOC is not GTVI, but rather for the duration of your mission the SOC is working with the GTVI.

And from that same mission:

We are working with the full cooperation of Vasudan Tactical Command and the Terran 6th Fleet. The probability that you will engage allied fighters will be minimal.

     
    Now what does this tell us? First it tells us that the Vasudans have a sub-command level below the overall black-dude Command guy. There's strategic GTVA Command, and Tactical Vasudan Command. Now in the briefing, why does it say Vasudan Command but not Terran Tactical Command? Why the Terran 6th Fleet? Oh maybe it's because the SOC is a terran organisation (we only ever see Terran pilots, Terran ships, etcetera in support of the SOC). And another big thing . . . the 6th fleet and the Vasudans are co-operating. As in, they're equal partners in playing their part in this operation (even though some Vasudans later screw it up). Just as the 6th fleet is a branch of the Terran command structure, so is the SOC.

    So uh, NO. The SOC does not outrank command, it does not have the same rank as command.
    The SOC is sub-service of Terran Tactical Command, just as the Terran 6th Fleet is under Terran Command, and the rest of the Terran fleets. Terran Tactical Command is itself subordinate to overall GTVA Command (ie the black guy). And GTVA is answerable only to the security Council. And on occasion, or in times of need, the SOC may work with the GTVI which is itself only answerable to the security council. And at times maybe the GTVI can trump the military Command but the SOC? No, don't think so.


    So with regards to the Colossus, did SOC operatives sabotage the Colossus? Not a chance.
    Did GTVI operatives sabotage the Colossus? Probably.


Snail said:

Now that you've rebuilt, do you go and create your own separate government for your military taskforce? No. The military is led by the Security Council, which is a civilian thing. The politicians control the military. The military don't control themselves. Seriously.

    Incase it's not already abundantly clear, you misread the point of my post.

 

[Snail]

GTVA

Security Council - General Assembly - Vasudan Imperium

Case closed. The SOC does not outrank command.

[ShadowGorrath]

*slaps head*

Come on... SOC is SPECIAL OPERATIONS. That means it's SPECIAL. SPECIAL things tend to get more than REGULAR. And working in cooperation with those things - means they are about the same rank. But SOC or GTVI still get to pull more strings.

[Snail]

So the command structure is:

GTVA

Security Council - General Assembly - Vasudan Imperium - Super Dooper Special Operations Command

[Akalabeth Angel]

*slaps head*

Come on... SOC is SPECIAL OPERATIONS. That means it's SPECIAL. SPECIAL things tend to get more than REGULAR. And working in cooperation with those things - means they are about the same rank. But SOC or GTVI still get to pull more strings.

       GTVI pulls strings, SOC FOLLOWS ORDERS.
       Special means IRREGULAR. What exactly is a Special mission:

Missions with the Special Operations Command are carried out deep in enemy territory, with minimal logistical support. Our behind-the-lines activities include infiltration, sabotage, surgical strikes, and intelligence gathering.

       Not "Missions with Special Operations Command are whatever the hell we want, because we outrank Command and go joy riding in new toys and Command's our ***** because we have the word special in our name."

[Snail]

       GTVI pulls strings, SOC FOLLOWS ORDERS.
       Special means IRREGULAR. What exactly is a Special mission:

I think it's more like the Security Council control the GTVI who pull the strings, who make the SOC do **** (ie. Politicians say "We authorize xxyy", the GTVI gets the plans down, and the SOC executes the missions)

       Not "Missions with Special Operations Command are whatever the hell we want, because we outrank Command and go joy riding in new toys and Command's our ***** because we have the word special in our name."

Agreed.

[Akalabeth Angel]

Look at it another way, what exactly does Special Operations do? As it says, they go behind enemy lines, gather intelligence, etcetera.

Okay, so we have the GTVI which is the intelligence branch for the entire Alliance
And we have overall military Command which is the entire force of the Terrans and Vasudans put together

So what exactly does the SOC do that gives them the right to have even the same level of authority as either of these organisations? They have good pilots, and fly 'special missions'?? Whoop-de-doo. There's no reason for them to have any sort of authority. They're inferior to the GTVI as an intelligence force because they're a bunch of elite pilots who've taken a few acting classes but still don't even know how to set detonators without reading the instructions. And they're inferior to GTVA Command because they're a bunch of elite pilots in super-cool but militarily-pathetic fighter craft when compared to what, the combined power of a dozen or more GTVA Fleets?

So why, would they answer only to the security council? If they were actually a part of the GTVI, sure, then maybe. But the Command Briefing makes it clear they are NOT GTVI. Therefore, they must be subordinate to GTVA Command because there's no other place for them. They quite honestly have NO business talking directly to the security council because they have NOTHING to offer that isn't already abundantly covered by either the GTVI or Command. However, as a regular tool of Command for special missions, and as a potential tool for GTVI they have a place in the overall command structure.

[ShadowGorrath]

                                                                GTVA
                        Security Council - General Assembly - Vasudan Imperium
                       /         \         \___________________/
                    SOC      Command                     |
                                                               GTVI

That's how I see it. Might be mistaking, but oh well...

SOC, GTVI and Command are about the same rank. They take their own roles. But SOC are the ones that do it with GTVI that let Bosch escape. SOC disabled the beam cannons on the Colossus, but either Command didn't know of it, or they didn't expect it like this. Or just didn't try to give the suspision cause of the other few things ( attack on Bosch's frigate, with the coordinates wrong; etc. ).

Ok, I'll stop now. I see this has got off topic, and just to say "OMG YOU'RE WRONG". If you want to continue this discussion, make a new thread and do so without me.

[Snail]

Ok, I'll stop now. I see this has got off topic, and just to say "OMG YOU'RE WRONG". If you want to continue this discussion, make a new thread and do so without me.

You're just saying that because you know you've pulled a Mobius.

IMO Head-CM1 is just some idiot in Capella looking at a real-time view screen and saying "Incoming jump signature! Hostile configuration!" Command command, as in command command command, is a guy sitting in Beta Aquilae in a semi-circular room mouthing off about current events and what they should do.

[blowfish]

SOC, GTVI and Command are about the same rank.

IIRC SOC is a division of the GTVI.

[Mars]

SOC is Special operations, saying that they're above command is like saying Delta Force is above the pentagon

[Snail]

Mr. Shadow is just having one of those "SOC is cool, they should be completely independent" moments.

[ShadowGorrath]

No, I'm just saying that SOC is doing their different missions without needing permission/confirmation from regular Command.

[Snail]

No, I'm just saying that SOC is doing their different missions without needing permission/confirmation from regular Command.

And that's just silly.