Hard Light Productions Forums
Hosted Projects - Standalone => The Babylon Project => Public Development => Topic started by: Col. Fishguts on September 26, 2011, 04:25:32 pm
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So *cough*... during play-testing the HTL Zephyr against an Omega, I couldn't stand looking at those 5-sided engines and gun barrels any more. I decided I would just import the original model in 3dsmax and redo the engines and turrets and call it a day. But there were also some nasty UV errors on the head portion, smoothing glitches everywhere and some areas which desperately needed a bit modeling love. And since it was a rainy weekend, I just kept adding stuff here and there... and well, a few thousand polys later, we're here:
(https://share.ols.inode.at/GBQ07YA1NGF1F829S53MIDZY4JRQTJBAU3K11U1N)
(https://share.ols.inode.at/AGOQOPYGU23DF3BIM40GMLQHNBIN6JAG1Y7OO65J)
Note: This isn't a "real" HTL model... it's the old model touched up a bit while cannibalizing the old maps for a quick&dirty texturing job. But nevertheless, I'm quite happy how it turned out and it is even a tad more efficient, since it only uses 2 maps now (instead of 4 before). Also, the map of the head (with the nameplate) is made from scratch with increased resolution, so it looks quite sharper ingame than the old one.
Next steps:
- Finalize the diffuse map (the rotating section needs some touching-up)
- Normal maps for all the greeblies not modelled in (that's gonna be fun)
- Make "destroyed" versions of all subsystems/turrets
- Proper LODs
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Having just gotten through the first 4 seasons of B5 over the last couple of months, I'm absolutely loving this! Good stuff.
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This looks great, far better than the old one.
Are you going to do a Nova in the future?
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How about Omega-X? ;7
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Holy moly that looks awesome. Not that tomcat's old model was bad, but it served its purpose in a day when dual core processors had yet to hit the market. This is one of the show's most iconic ships so it's great that we have a model that can does it justice! One question: is there going to be a blank template texture for the bow section of the ship so new nameplates can be used?
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Are you going to do a Nova in the future?
Eventually yes, unless den5 beats me to it. There's a high-poly LOD0 of the Nova on the FTP, but I don't know if he's still working on it.
How about Omega-X? ;7
That's a rather trivial change, once the basic version is done... I'll just have to add the shadow map to everything and sprinkle in some spiky bits ;)
One question: is there going to be a blank template texture for the bow section of the ship so new nameplates can be used?
Yes, the map for the bow section is still called eaomega01a, so once I remake the different nameplate versions, it should work with existing missions
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oh yeah
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Nice work ...
any more progress?
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Yup, but not ready to show off yet... and RL is very busy at the moment.
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Are these improvements already in the TBP? or we have to download them separately.
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The improved model file isn't even released yet ...
... and even if they were, they would be a seperate download just like the improvements over there (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=71120.0)
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I see, thx, 1 more thing: the original model would be available for download too? I'd like to experiment with it, I'm not a pro 3D modeller but I'd like to try it Moray (http://www.stmuc.com/moray/) (Modeller for POV-Ray (http://www.povray.org)). What was the original model file format? I can import .3ds files, no problem but I was curious.
By the way, great work!
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On patrol near Jupiter
(https://share.ols.inode.at/FDTLDVET8QVLH4E5AM1GBYWN1ICSEBCUP7G32UW0)
Weapons testing above Mars
(https://share.ols.inode.at/KRU3U076V8L86IV618YFJAA9HQBIL8S6ZN9UWFZS)
Showing the raiders who's boss
(https://share.ols.inode.at/ML1R4VX53VKL7UUNL677CYCCLK7IZ7ALSADV6A19)
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Impresive!
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That truly looks epic. And the turret barrels actually look round. It even looks like you got the firing points lined up with the gun points, something the old model has been without for...nine years.
ps. not to detract from the awesome Omega, but are those backgrounds included in TBP? :confused:
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Some close-up turret action for Slasher ;) Maybe I need to move the firing point a bit further out, so it intersects less with the barrel.
(https://share.ols.inode.at/UP8XJ6UMP1NAN0D2KGOF680DUNYHIU6DKCA5H6Q8)
The backgrounds are actually skyboxes, and yes they are in TBP: jupiter_skybox1.pof, mars_skybox.pof
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wow! that picture will look great with the new Slasher's normal map for the omega texture.
the model could be just percfect combined with those normals, excelent work Col. Fishguts! Still WIP? do you use the original texture map?
Edit: one thing, is not about the model, just a quick fix texture issue. The fighter bay here is red, and in almost all the render image I have. But in the show is more like orange.
And the nova have not color on it. Just a detail.
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"Wanna have"-inspiring
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Those X-ray laser effects really need updating.
Perhaps a variation of this (http://img641.imageshack.us/img641/559/mininglaser2.png)?
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Those X-ray laser effects really need updating.
YESSSSSS. That's been on the agenda, but I've been meaning to round out some of the other species' weapons first.
I definitely do think the EA laser effect we've got could look more like it does in the show though.
wow! that picture will look great with the new Slasher's normal map for the omega texture.
Thanks! It should be noted Col. Fishguts knows way more about texturing than I do. He is one of TBP's original ship makers and his textures are superior to anything I can do. :)
Those turrets look awesome by the way. It's weird seeing things rendered in geometry that were formerly just painted on to the model.
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I actually think the EA beam effect looks good, what's your problem with it?
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I actually think the EA beam effect looks good, what's your problem with it?
It looks good Vidmaster, really good, don't get me wrong. But It could looks perfect.
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wow! that picture will look great with the new Slasher's normal map for the omega texture.
the model could be just percfect combined with those normals, excelent work Col. Fishguts! Still WIP? do you use the original texture map?
Edit: one thing, is not about the model, just a quick fix texture issue. The fighter bay here is red, and in almost all the render image I have. But in the show is more like orange.
And the nova have not color on it. Just a detail.
Since this model has been re-uv-mapped completely (to use less individual maps), normal maps need to be done from scratch (a process which I've already started).
Concenring the light in the fighterbay, if you look at screencaps, it was somtimes more red and sometimes more orange... and sometimes it was switched off. Since I prefer the deeper red version, that's what it will be.
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Did you considered make occlusion maps for the model and add it to the diffuse map? The results could be awesome
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So, after a longer hiatus due to RL, the geometry is now complete and ingame, including all LODs, debris and destroyed versions of all subsystems.
(https://share.ols.inode.at/01FJQQYRSRAA6BDW7A49TNNK5FXHPMQYN6IEWG6O)
I'm still working on the normal maps and all the different nameplate versions. But in the meantime, here's a beta version for public testing.
It's a nameless version and the textures have placeholder names, so that there's no interference with the texture-replacement feature of existing missions.
Download ZIP (https://share.ols.inode.at/J063LZNEPPIP68TKAJ4ATNAT54JQXOCGXHJJH7X7)
EDIT for clarification: This is a drop-in replacement for the original model. Simply extract the POF file to /data/models and the DDS files to /data/maps
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I am not exactly sure what's the policy for using models outside TBP. I heard it was restricted. Is it still the case ?
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Well if he redid the model he has the right to give permission to use it. If it's a rework of the old one then unless you can figure out who did the original and get permission it's TBP use only.
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I am not exactly sure what's the policy for using models outside TBP. I heard it was restricted. Is it still the case ?
Wat? You're probably referring to IPAndrews temperamental statement that TBP3.4b was final and not to be touched/modified. Be that as it may, it's not up to a single member of such a collaborative project to decide which assets can be used by others.
For example, contributions to the original Omega:
- Modeled by tomcat (who just recently released all his assets to the public)
- Textured by Cpt White or tomcat (not sure anymore)
- Glowmaps and specular maps by me
- Reconverted with the (then latest) autofacet PCS build for better smoothing by me and IPAndrews
- Glowpoints by Skullar (IIRC)
So, who should get the power to decide who can use it outside of TBP... all of us, none of us? As far as I'm concerned, we stick to the old TBP policy, that assets can be used elsewhere, as long as proper credit is given. This worked fine in the past (there's a GalCivII mod using TBP models for example), and was back then also agreed by IPA.
For the record, this version here recycles some geometry and textures from the original. And as long as the maker of the original textures has no objections, can be used freely. If he has, I'll remake the damn textures from scratch.
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My first time to stop by in a couple months and what a day. That looks stellar! Your work really paid off.
Just tried it out in game and it works flawlessly. I didn't have time to explode it or nuke subsystems but I'll be trying that as soon as possible. Am I to take it from the description that subsystems won't disappear when they reach 0%?
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I like the way the ship breaks up like the Pollux did in No Surrender, No Retreat and how the constituent pieces are still recognizable.
(http://imageshack.us/a/img692/6158/omegadebris1.jpg)
(http://imageshack.us/a/img208/4346/omegadebris2.jpg)
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As far as I'm concerned, we stick to the old TBP policy, that assets can be used elsewhere, as long as proper credit is given. This worked fine in the past (there's a GalCivII mod using TBP models for example), and was back then also agreed by IPA.
The problem is, he decided, at some point, that TBP assets are not to be used outside TBP unless explicit permission is given by the original author (all old permissions still hold). A rather childish action, if you ask me, but they were already rather outdated at this point anyway. Zatharas stuff and HTLs are excerpt from this though, having nothing to do with IPA and not being made for the "main" TBP.
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Roger. Thanks for clearing this up a bit. If Zathras stuff is available for public use I should start updating the wiki with them !
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I wouldn't trust Dragon on that. To be honest I think he's flat out wrong. But if he has access to some information on why Zathras stuff is okay to use I'm not privy to, I'd like to hear it.
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Blargh. Then I'd really like to have an official answer to this :<
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I gave the official answer already. Unless you can track down all who worked on a model and get permission then it is TBP only.
Now in this case if Col. Fishguts list is correct IPA is out of the loop (for this version of the model not the 3.4b one) as the model has been modified and converted by him now.
Tomcat just released all his models to the community so that is 2 down.
Pretty sure Skullar wouldn't mind so that is 3.
That just leaves the possibility of Cpt White. If someone can dig up an answer on his work then you have your answer.
This is a good example of why we stick with the TBP only answer when we don't know. There is little or no tracking on who did what to even find out who to ask for permission.
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I wouldn't trust Dragon on that. To be honest I think he's flat out wrong. But if he has access to some information on why Zathras stuff is okay to use I'm not privy to, I'd like to hear it.
Well, some time ago (shortly after the first Zatharas release) I did ask if the Zatharas stuff is OK to use outside TBP and got a positive answer. It was a long time ago, so something might've changed, but I haven't seen anything that would hint at Zatharas stuff being restricted the same way TBP stuff is. Of course, given that this Omega uses a TBP model as a basis (AFAIK, not the case with the rest of Zatharas), it might be somewhat different from it (IIRC, all previous HTLs have been completely original).
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Given that much of Zathras is fixed and resaved TBP data, I can't see how that could have been the case.
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I'm not sure about the permission of using the assets publicly, but I was under the impression that the whole point of Zathras was to bypass IPA preventing TBP assets from being fixed and updated. I thought that Zathras was a response to IPA's childishness.
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Not quite. IPA had the opinion that TBP 3.4 should be final and never updated to 3.5 or 4 so as to prevent developers always having to FRED for a moving target.
Zathras was a way to do that and also fix TBP so that those people who did want a more modern engine and models could without having to alter the core. It was never an attempt to replace all of TBP's assets with new ones he hadn't touched. It may one day reach that goal if we're very, very lucky but that was never the plan.
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Not quite. IPA had the opinion that TBP 3.4 should be final and never updated to 3.5 or 4 so as to prevent developers always having to FRED for a moving target.
Well, as I don't think there are any new campaigns in the making, his opinion may have been right all those years ago, but it doesn't matter anymore right now...
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Are the subsystem entries on this Omega a 100% match with the old one? When running a debug build I get a crash.
Loading model 'omega.pof'
WARNING: "Not all subsystems in model "omega.pof" have a record in ships.tbl. This can cause game to crash. List of subsystems not found from table is in log file." at modelread.cpp:636
Freeing all existing models...
ASSERTION: "idx < (int)GL_vertex_buffers.size()" at gropengltnl.cpp:420
I'm not sure which log file I should be checking for the missing subsystems...
[edit]Nevermind, I found them at the end of the FRED2_debug log. The destroyed versions of the subsystems aren't listed in the vanilla TBP table entry. How is destroyed geometry usually handled in the tables?
[attachment deleted by a basterd]
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Those submodels should NOT have the "$special=subsystem" property set in PCS2. If there is a submodel named "rotator" that has that property, then the engine will automatically look for another submodel named "rotator-destroyed" and switch to that if the rotator subsystem receives lethal damage. There is no need to give the -destroyed submodel any properties.
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Ah yes, that was on oversight when copying that submodel.
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So how's this coming? I only have a few models left on the list to fix and this is one of them. I'd rather just use this one if it's going to be ready.
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RL caused some delays, but the only things missing are normal maps and the different nameplate maps. Both are WIP, so stay tuned.
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Normal maps are fun
(https://share.ols.inode.at/E2J948NRU0JOS9HXR1BT138TXE8KQ6G571DA8132)
(https://share.ols.inode.at/0MQ3U91L0BF0EM4C2BWRGDWND0XLAZNKLEMGMM3V)
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Every once in a while it pains me that I never FREDded anything for TBP.
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Some kick ass normal maps there :yes:
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Looking like the real HTL deal there.
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NICE.
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Sorry for posting in a old thread, but more praise is needed, good job. c:
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So... *cough*
Thanks to free time during the holidays, I finally managed to finalize the normal maps (too many damn greebles), and now only the different nameplates maps are missing. I counted 71 in the core VPs and latest Zathras, but we're getting there:
(https://share.ols.inode.at/WVNDEAKEKQU3NEITLYLDUBDQ2ZFYFQZCLNPZX0EH)
(https://share.ols.inode.at/V9DKE7GE7FXYIIJF0I8FK9KAIOT4ZC9VKMFYTVDZ)
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The day will come when TBP has better effects and models than the show. :D
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The day will come when TBP has better effects and models than the show. :D
The show was made in the '90s. Haven't we passed that quality a long time ago? :P
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One can argue it's different to do real time effects in an old engine than making rendered cutscenes with some of the best FX teams they had in their disposal at the time.
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One can argue it's different to do real time effects in an old engine than making rendered cutscenes with some of the best FX teams they had in their disposal at the time.
Of course it's different. If someone wanted to make prerendered visuals to exceed Babylon 5's professional CG, that was already done on consumer hardware (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wreck:_In_the_Pirkinning) in 2005... 8 (going on 9) years ago.
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There were some higher detailed models (for some ships) show in "The Lost Tales", but they overdid the bloom on those shots.
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Hmph... I saw Omega somewhere else... In a movie. Looked nice, too.
But this is hell of a work. N_N_N_N_N_ice.
^It was a parody "Star Wreck: The Pirkinning" :)
And when i look at the front i see similarities to BP's Karuna...
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Hmph... I saw Omega somewhere else... In a movie. Looked nice, too.
But this is hell of a work. N_N_N_N_N_ice.
^It was a parody "Star Wreck: The Pirkinning" :)
And when i look at the front i see similarities to BP's Karuna...
Correction: When you see the Karuna, you see similarities to the Omega (which in turn took inspiration from Syd Mead's Alexei Leonov from the film 2010).
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Can't wait to see the final version in a FSO shadow build!
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It's out, see http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=71120.0