Hard Light Productions Forums
General FreeSpace => FreeSpace Discussion => Topic started by: Hippo on September 14, 2002, 11:32:37 am
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Scientists belive than a spinning black hole could lead to another universe if it stableizes, so you could fly through it. Now if the black hole collects light, if you see the inside, it would be white because the light can't escape from it, correct? Then who says that the entrance to this n-dimensional universe isn't just black holes? they the obviously aren't used for in system jumps, but in a jump node? could there be a black hole or subspace black hole in the middle, and a subspace drive being able to escape the gravity? obviously subspace is faster than light, or it would take years to go anywhere. So who says that a black hole can't hold back a subspace drive? this is just a thought, but talk and disscuss...
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Its not white because photons are compressed into an area smaller then an electron just like everything else. Although there are theorized white holes where matter is restored, this is not "subspace" nor could we ever survive the process. However, I still beleave that matter and energy is simply "collected" in the base of the black hole. And when you say "Scientists beleave", make sure they are compotent scientists.
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Black holes are not holes, they are the cores of dead stars, ussually Supergiants. They collapse and...well, keep collapsing until the star is nothing but a black sphere about the size of our moon, but the only thing is, that it still weighs the same as it started, the gravity pull from the "black hole" is so massive that light cannot escape it's surface.
Now subspace on the other hand, could be a possibility, if a black hole...died, then the remaining "gravity depression" in space time could be used to link to another "dead black hole" so if something enters this "worm hole" it would travel very near to the speed of light, and this may be hazardous, because of the G-forces exerted on the person, or time may accelerate when you are inside the wormhole, and you may either stay young and travel to the other side, or you may age extremely fast and age 20 years in 20 days(freaky but it may be possible).
So, Subspace may exist, and it might also be extremely..."unhealthy" to you.
Anyone want to argue that point?
Cor
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i really don't think our answer lies in a black hole. as it is any gravitational field strong enough to capture light itself would be stroong enough that if a man were to enter feet first, he would disintegrate in a millisecnd. The molecules at his feet would be accelerating faster than those at his head, and he would be torn apart ( quite painlessly i might add). And no this is n't some made up crap, you can find htis analogy or one like it in nearly college level astronomy book.
I do think our answer lies in electromagnetics. Philadelphia experiment?
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That's the one with Einstien and the american warship that got teleported somewhere, and the results of the crew were...."classified"...after some digging on the net, I read something about that, and the crew was materialized "INSIDE" the ship bulkheads, and so forth...*shudders*...ugh!
and NASA is planning on sending a probe to see what is inside a blackhole...not for a long time though
Cor
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Originally posted by Corhellion
That's the one with Einstien and the american warship that got teleported somewhere, and the results of the crew were...."classified"...after some digging on the net, I read something about that, and the crew was materialized "INSIDE" the ship bulkheads, and so forth...*shudders*...ugh!
:wtf:
...what?
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search for "The Philadelphia Project" very top secret, and very old
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http://www.abovetopsecret.com/pages/philadelphia.html
There I did it for you!;)
Cor
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Thanks...
Well... that was weird! :eek2:
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it was originally a project to make a ship radar invisible. It worked. Then it worked too well. But i think that's where the answer really is. Sitting right there on the USS Eldridge. Hmmmm, I feel a campaign Idea coming on. Yup my muse is slapping me around right now...gotta write this stuff down.
ok, i read the book about 20 years ago. I won't say which is right, the book or the article. But there are some marked differences.
1. the experiment was using an electromagnetic field to literally bend radar waves around the ship, thus making it invisible.
2. It wasn't an experiment in Invisibilty.
3. the first that i heard about the deguassing was only 4 years ago.
4. The invisibilty was an unfortunate side effect. Also, for the first three minutes that the eldridge was gone from view, it was still leaving a depression in the water.
5. for the second three minutes that it was gone, it left no depression in the water.
6. while it was invisible, and gone, during those three minutes, bulkheads (walls), overheads (ceilings), and decks were dissappearing as well.
7. while that was happening the crew was going frantic. And when they shut down the field generator, everything slammed back all at once. Some crew members were caught in the same place where a bulkhead suddenly reappeared, or where a deck/overhead reappeared. They were not cut in half, but actually integrated into these items, and very much alive. Albeit dieing. half on one side of a bulkhead, half on the other, that sort of thing. We aren't talking about being stuck, we are talking about actual molecular bonding. Some of the crew was never seen again. accounts from the ship state that while she was in darkness, as they put it, some men jumped over the side. Maybe they live in bermuda.
8. Four hours later she appeared in Norfolk, and guess for how long, 3 minutes. During which time eyewitness accounts claim that parts of the ship were dissappearing. Then she vanished again.
like i said, i don't know which is more accurate....if either is the truth. But those are the differences as i read them.
we now return you to your regularly scheduled thread.
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I saw that first movie abut 1984 I think... It was Michael Pare's fist movie (from streets of fire, moon44, Eddie and The Cruisers).
I forgot when the scond movie came out but they did it to a stealth fighter inthe year , like 2010 and it went back to 1944. strange stuff. But worse Michael's character was played b someone else :( that sucked he was good in the first movie.
Now to seperate fact from fiction someone shuld recreate that experiment for the media and use all sorts of robots and sensors and recording devices/ animals? and do this thing small scale (like a room).... Then we will know the truth once and for all... How about next Saturday, I'm free then... ;7
Oh yeah, as far as I knew back on the 7th from Star-Epoch, I was gonna take over Temporal Mechanics for him while he was away so it wouldn't be a ded duck. No contact, files not uploaded and no response. Did someone else get chosen? No biggie just wondering. Hey ShadowWolf!!! Man you beat me to it. When I asked back on the 5th about helping S-E I had the Philidelphia Experiement in the back of my mind (Elements).... How the GTVA was trying to make their ships "Invisible" to the shivans like thiers were to us at first :lol:
What can I say. "Great minds think alike" "But greater IQ's mention them first!" :lol: :lol: :lol:
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pah! Philadelphia experiment. It's probably about as real as the bermuda triangle
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but the bermuda triangle is real! There is a strong dampening field in effect under the water, effectivly destroying all radar and radio communications. Probably the field is maintained by pirates who fire cascading anti-matter beams at passing ships, then use the victim ship's materials to forge unholy great evils... such as pokemon and the Al Gore doll.
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So true, so true...:shaking:
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Originally posted by vadar_1
but the bermuda triangle is real! There is a strong dampening field in effect under the water, effectivly destroying all radar and radio communications. Probably the field is maintained by pirates who fire cascading anti-matter beams at passing ships, then use the victim ship's materials to forge unholy great evils... such as pokemon and the Al Gore doll.
Sadly even the so called disappearances are faked.
Things like ships being reported as diappearing in calm seas when in fact there was a hurricane going on at the time. Another ship was reported as disappearing without a trace in the bermuda triangle when in fact it sent out a distress signal and one of the rescue ships watched it sink!
The whole bermuda triangle mystery is nothing more than poor reporting.
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Originally posted by Corhellion
... keep collapsing until the star is nothing but a black sphere about the size of our moon...
:wtf: Theoretical astrophysics lesson time (skip this post if you just don't care).
Ummmmm... no, black holes are theoretical coordinate points of mass in dimensional space which are generally accepted to have NO SIZE AT ALL. A dead star the size of our moon would be more like a white dwarf. Even a neutron star is hella smaller. The black area you observe as a black hole (which no one really has observed) is just the area around it which light cannot escape. The actually singularity (which its name implies) is an infinitely small point (a mere coordinate) and thus can no longer be defined as matter.
This brings me to one thing that REALLY bugs me: people are always saying "the material of the universe was compressed into a ball the size of a marble/baseball/golf ball or whatever crap they made up. That is all full of BS. First of all, if such a mass were to exist in our universe it would be like a black hole having no size at all. But the real point is that you cannot even begin to comprehend what the original universal mass was because in it was contained ALL of space, time and all higher dimensional planes. The cataclysmic explosion known as the Big Bang was the sudden expansion of space and all the higher dimensions, thus allowing the mass to spread into this space. Thus before this event this singular "thing" (for lack of better words) did not float around in space, it had no size (because size made no sense) and contained everything in it. Beyond its boundries is what can truly be described as "void" because it had absolutely NOTHING. No space, no time, no nothing. Try and comprehend that.
That's what's fun about these things. Average people delude themselves thinking they can visualize and describe things such as black holes, higher dimensional planes, the Big Bang etc. Humans are physically incapable of even beginning to comprehend what things are/were really like.
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Just think in terms of the math; everything can then be visualized. :D
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With Nikola Tesla almost anything is possible having to do with magnetic fields.....He's done lots of stuff that never got much credit..and isn't common public knowledge...
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Of cource there is always Hawkings theory which is also pretty though to comprehend (sorry if I get this wrong). The theory includes the idea of imaginary time, which is the same things as imaginary numbers (square root of -4 is 2i) applied to our two-dimensional time. If the universe is looked at this perspective there are no singularities. The three directions in space, and the one direction of imaginary time, make up what is called a Euclidean space-time. So the universe has no boundaries but is not infinite.
http://www.hawking.org.uk/text/public/bot.html
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Fribba ja nibba ribba ribba.
Sounds a lot like a really crappy wormhole.
By the way, yes, you could theoretically enter a black hole and end up somewhere else. But it'd be the fragments of your component atoms that came out- they've got such force, you'd be stretched out for hundreds of miles, and ground up by the massive forces in the interior. Theoretically, at least, you could find some way to counteract this force, but it'd require so much energy you'd be better off walking to wherever you wanted to go. Not to mention that there'd be no telling where you'd end up if you DID go through (if there is a "through", which is hypothesized but by no means to be assumed), and most certainly no going back. Not yer best mode of transport.
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It helps if you can see or think in the 4th dimension...
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Originally posted by Cannikin
:wtf: Theoretical astrophysics lesson time (skip this post if you just don't care).
Ummmmm... no, black holes are theoretical coordinate points of mass in dimensional space which are generally accepted to have NO SIZE AT ALL. A dead star the size of our moon would be more like a white dwarf. Even a neutron star is hella smaller. The black area you observe as a black hole (which no one really has observed) is just the area around it which light cannot escape. The actually singularity (which its name implies) is an infinitely small point (a mere coordinate) and thus can no longer be defined as matter.
This brings me to one thing that REALLY bugs me: people are always saying "the material of the universe was compressed into a ball the size of a marble/baseball/golf ball or whatever crap they made up. That is all full of BS. First of all, if such a mass were to exist in our universe it would be like a black hole having no size at all. But the real point is that you cannot even begin to comprehend what the original universal mass was because in it was contained ALL of space, time and all higher dimensional planes. The cataclysmic explosion known as the Big Bang was the sudden expansion of space and all the higher dimensions, thus allowing the mass to spread into this space. Thus before this event this singular "thing" (for lack of better words) did not float around in space, it had no size (because size made no sense) and contained everything in it. Beyond its boundries is what can truly be described as "void" because it had absolutely NOTHING. No space, no time, no nothing. Try and comprehend that.
That's what's fun about these things. Average people delude themselves thinking they can visualize and describe things such as black holes, higher dimensional planes, the Big Bang etc. Humans are physically incapable of even beginning to comprehend what things are/were really like.
Where'd you learn that one?
"Big Bang" was a tragic name for the beginning of time.
Time and space (as known to all) are invariably linked, the point is, when the "Big Bang" went off, it wasn't the begginning of this matter spreading, "the beginning" is the wrong term.
It was ALWAYS Expanding, Time is due to the expansion of the universe, if it weren't for the fact that the big ball of mass was expanding all things would just sit still unmoving, it is indeed hard to convey in simply words...
When I'm in the right mood I've managed to explain this to people who lecture at universities... however my attempts for the most part fail cuz most people don't know the peripheral knowledge (Yeah, that is partly my fault I don't know the right words... but it works in my head) there is simply nothing outside the universe, you say 'void' you're wrong, there isn't even a void, the simple point is as you said the human mind can't comprehend that...(Although, some can...normally children who're very good with spacial awareness) either you did just as bad a job at explaining things as I sometimes do, or you don't understand it yourself.
The universe is still a mystery to the whole of humanity, however such theorums as "The Big Bang" Give very flawed impressions to the untrained and uneducated mind (note; even worse impressions to those who have a half way decent understanding of the topic...); you did make a few good points though, enough to make me want to post..hmm, nice one :P I never post here O.o
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Originally posted by karajorma
Sadly even the so called disappearances are faked.
Things like ships being reported as diappearing in calm seas when in fact there was a hurricane going on at the time. Another ship was reported as disappearing without a trace in the bermuda triangle when in fact it sent out a distress signal and one of the rescue ships watched it sink!
The whole bermuda triangle mystery is nothing more than poor reporting.
Some airplanes actually went down their "unexplained" at that time. It was cause air bubbles beneath the sea bottom broke free and created a big air pocket (Not sure how to say it in english... :p) and caused the plane to go into freefall.
But this happened in other places as well...
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It can always expand and still have a beginning in some sense. ;) In other words, the limit of the volume as time tends to -¥ from now is 0, and moreover, the limit of dv/dt to the same value is also 0.
As I said, think of it in terms of the math. It is then easy to visualize just about anything. (even things as, say, non-integral dimensions :D)
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Originally posted by Tiara
Some airplanes actually went down their "unexplained" at that time. It was cause air bubbles beneath the sea bottom broke free and created a big air pocket (Not sure how to say it in english... :p) and caused the plane to go into freefall.
But this happened in other places as well...
If you`re refering to the disappearence of Flight 19 (5 bombers and sea plane, The most famous Triangle myth) you're sadly mistaken.
Flight 19 dissappeared because the flight leader believed he was flying over the Florida Keys when in fact he was over the Great Sale Clay. To return to base he would have attempted to fly north east but from his actual location he would have only led the aircraft further out to sea. They ran out of fuel and ditched in the ocean. There are actual radio logs of him saying that they were running out of fuel and would all ditch as soon as any of the planes ran out of fuel.
While there are scientific explainations for what could cause an effect similar to the reports of the bermuda triangle there is no need for any of them. The entire myth is a fabrication and therefore has no need for a scientific explaination.
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Originally posted by QuantumDelta
... there is simply nothing outside the universe, you say 'void' you're wrong, there isn't even a void, the simple point is as you said the human mind can't comprehend that...
Bah, fine. I chose a bad word since the word "void" that there is an area in space you are referring to.
Ok, beyond there was nothing (if there was anything better to describe lack of anything I would use it).
"the beginning" is the wrong term
Curious, where does it say "the beginning" in my post? I can't find it :confused:
Time is due to the expansion of the universe
Isn't that what I said? Well, if you didn't know when I say "all higher dimensions" time is included in that.
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Originally posted by karajorma
If you`re refering to the disappearence of Flight 19
...no...
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Then which dissapperance are you refering to? Cause I`ve got a book full of explainations for a load of Bermuda Triangle myths :)
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Just some random commercial/private aircrafts... Nothing fancy.
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Probably myths and half truths just like flight 19. I can think of 3 other bermuda triangle plane mysteries that contain similar lies to the stories told about flight 19.
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Originally posted by karajorma
If you`re refering to the disappearence of Flight 19 (5 bombers and sea plane, The most famous Triangle myth) you're sadly mistaken.
Flight 19 dissappeared because the flight leader believed he was flying over the Florida Keys when in fact he was over the Great Sale Clay. To return to base he would have attempted to fly north east but from his actual location he would have only led the aircraft further out to sea. They ran out of fuel and ditched in the ocean. There are actual radio logs of him saying that they were running out of fuel and would all ditch as soon as any of the planes ran out of fuel.
While there are scientific explainations for what could cause an effect similar to the reports of the bermuda triangle there is no need for any of them. The entire myth is a fabrication and therefore has no need for a scientific explaination.
It's funny, I remember reading this explanation as a kid, yet people still kept on throwing "mysterious happenings" in the works. Out of interest, what happened to the Marlin that was sent out to search for them? My fading memory tells me that it disappeared 5min afterwards, but then history has been full of writers like Frank Edwards BS'ing these stories.
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The Martin Mariner sent out after flight 19 did dissappear but the captain of the Gaines Mills, a passing freighter reports seeing an aircraft catch fire, fall into the sea and explode in exactly the area the plane would have been at about that time.
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Stephen Hawkings theories are quite interesting. But, they're hard to prove. Yes, our maths have proven quite accurate on many things that we can observe, but that doesn't mean they're accurate in ALL things. Even so...
I like his idea for the most part. But, it doesn't quite work. Entropy is working the wrong way. I can't explain what I mean right now, because I don't want to take up several pages of my thoughts that won't make sense anyway, since I'm terrible at communicating clearly.
But the idea of the universe as a 4D bubble is quite interesting. MIB anyone;-)