Hard Light Productions Forums

Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => FS2 Open Coding - The Source Code Project (SCP) => Topic started by: Unknown Target on September 24, 2002, 01:45:57 pm

Title: Two more things
Post by: Unknown Target on September 24, 2002, 01:45:57 pm
Two things I'd like to see happen in the source are:

The ability to use .bmp files for textures.

The ability to play multiplayer with mods insalled. (multiplayer FOR the mods;))
Title: Re: Two more things
Post by: RandomTiger on September 24, 2002, 01:56:48 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Unkown Target
Two things I'd like to see happen in the source are:

The ability to use .bmp files for textures.

The ability to play multiplayer with mods insalled. (multiplayer FOR the mods;))


The bmp thing could be something we could do as part of the DX8 upgrade. Why not use tga's instead though?

However Im told the internet multiplayer code was stripped out so dont hold your breath.
Title: Re: Re: Two more things
Post by: KARMA on September 24, 2002, 02:08:38 pm
Quote
Originally posted by RandomTiger



However Im told the internet multiplayer code was stripped out so dont hold your breath.


you mean that the multiplayer isnt present at all in the releases of scproject?
Title: Two more things
Post by: RandomTiger on September 24, 2002, 02:10:48 pm
I think you can play of a LAN but no PXO support or whatever it was
Title: Re: Re: Two more things
Post by: Nico on September 24, 2002, 03:00:57 pm
Quote
Originally posted by RandomTiger


The bmp thing could be something we could do as part of the DX8 upgrade. Why not use tga's instead though?

However Im told the internet multiplayer code was stripped out so dont hold your breath.


TGA would be awesome...BUT! who is gonna download 120Mb big map packs?
Title: Two more things
Post by: Fury on September 24, 2002, 03:05:51 pm
Scrap bmb, use jpg and tga instead.
Title: Two more things
Post by: Unknown Target on September 24, 2002, 03:11:28 pm
Not tga. If anything, I'd prefer .jpg.
Title: Two more things
Post by: RandomTiger on September 24, 2002, 03:24:42 pm
Dx8 has D3DXCreateTextureFromFile which lets you load the following formats in one line of code:

.bmp, .dds, .dib, .jpg, .png, and .tga.

But I can only get it to work for 32 bit texturing.

I would have thought tga would become popular because you can store a proper alpha channel so we can mix multiple textures and stuff like that.
Title: Two more things
Post by: Stryke 9 on September 24, 2002, 03:37:45 pm
Sounds good. Don't know why you'd need anything other than 32-bit, anyway. That's better than about 90% of games, and more than you can see. And Photoshop supports it, last I looked.
Title: Two more things
Post by: vyper on September 24, 2002, 04:12:40 pm
Quote
Originally posted by RandomTiger
Dx8 has D3DXCreateTextureFromFile which lets you load the following formats in one line of code:

.bmp, .dds, .dib, .jpg, .png, and .tga.

But I can only get it to work for 32 bit texturing.

I would have thought tga would become popular because you can store a proper alpha channel so we can mix multiple textures and stuff like that.


:nod:
Title: Two more things
Post by: IceFire on September 24, 2002, 05:06:09 pm
Wait a minute...32bits in the texture itself, or 32bit color in the game.  Because 32bit color just doesn't perform well enough for me to use it.  Unless DX8 changes things alot :)
Title: Two more things
Post by: Sesquipedalian on September 24, 2002, 07:05:50 pm
32-bit colour isn't good enough for you, IceFire?  FS2 currently uses mere 8-bit colour, allowing 256 colours per texture.  32-bit colour gives you 4 294 967 296 colours.
Title: Two more things
Post by: Solatar on September 24, 2002, 07:10:19 pm
How about 16 million color bitmaps?
Title: Two more things
Post by: daveb on September 24, 2002, 07:30:27 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Sesquipedalian
32-bit colour isn't good enough for you, IceFire?  FS2 currently uses mere 8-bit colour, allowing 256 colours per texture.  32-bit colour gives you 4 294 967 296 colours.


I dunno what gave you that idea. FS2 uses 16 bit textures across the board. There's no support for paletted anything except in Fred.

NOTE : this is rather old fashioned in today's gaming terms. Back when FS2 came out, being an all hardware, non-paletted texture across-the-board game was a pretty big deal.
Title: Two more things
Post by: phreak on September 24, 2002, 07:35:15 pm
any way we could make fred use a hardware renderer?  the way the paletting works, the nebula textures are often distorted.
Title: Two more things
Post by: daveb on September 24, 2002, 07:38:23 pm
Sure. Its just a time investment. Windowed D3D is pretty easy these days. Although you may find OpenGL a little easier to merge with MFC. Right now the rendering in Fred is totally old-school. Hand optimized inner-loop software texture mapping. Kind of a hidden marvel among all the crud of the source base.
Title: Two more things
Post by: phreak on September 24, 2002, 07:43:49 pm
i've done some opengl, but not using MFC.  it should be a worthwhile investment

where's the "shoot myself in the head smiliey" i need for the asm code in fs2 (i gotta learn that too)
Title: Two more things
Post by: daveb on September 24, 2002, 07:50:45 pm
I wouldn't bother. While knowing "assembly" in general is a good thing, knowing Intel assembly is of questionable value these days. And figuring out how the various tmappers of FS2 work has about the same utility as understanding how to build a suit of chainmail.
Title: Two more things
Post by: LtNarol on September 24, 2002, 08:18:06 pm
use jpgs for texture maps? drugs is bad mkay? zsoft works better than jpgs, and tgas are far better; and yes, they are supported by PSP.  I dunno about you, but alpha channels for texture maps would be incredible.
Title: Two more things
Post by: Fury on September 25, 2002, 02:22:52 am
Quote
Originally posted by Sesquipedalian
32-bit colour isn't good enough for you, IceFire?  FS2 currently uses mere 8-bit colour, allowing 256 colours per texture.  32-bit colour gives you 4 294 967 296 colours.


You understood him wrong.
He meant that 32 bit gives too slow performance for him.

32 bit is a bit sluggish indeed, hopefully DX8 improves this.

Edit: Later when we have (if we have...) both DX8 and OGL (1.2?) support, wouldn't it be necessary to include hardware acceleration settings for FRED2 as well? So you can choose between DX and OGL hardware accelerated windowed mode.

My own opinion is that even though dave said that OGL would be easier to implement, shouldn't you go with full DX8 support first? Then we have both APIs later supported in both FS2 and FRED2.

DaveB: Sorry to disturb you with my question, but do know any issues about FS2 multiplayer code and how it fares with mods? I mean, there is some crashing with mod missions in multiplayer...
Title: Two more things
Post by: RandomTiger on September 25, 2002, 06:20:11 am
My thoughts on this issue is that we must have at least 16 bit texture support. Its only limited at the moment (in the DX8 branch) because of a bug.

As far as fred goes if we get freespace2 all in DX8 Im more than willing to have a go at getting fred working in hardware. Of course running in software should always be an option.
Title: Two more things
Post by: Fury on September 25, 2002, 08:32:04 am
RandomTiger, that's nice.

I think you should add a new menu bar in fred2, called "options" or something like that where you can configure new features and such.
Title: Two more things
Post by: Sesquipedalian on September 25, 2002, 07:59:10 pm
Quote
Originally posted by daveb


I dunno what gave you that idea. FS2 uses 16 bit textures across the board. There's no support for paletted anything except in Fred.

NOTE : this is rather old fashioned in today's gaming terms. Back when FS2 came out, being an all hardware, non-paletted texture across-the-board game was a pretty big deal.


Really?  I mean, not to contradict the Big Guy, but every PCX I open in the VPs are in 256 colour.  Does this mean that, if one were to put a 16-bit texture in, it would work?
Title: Two more things
Post by: IceFire on September 25, 2002, 09:50:02 pm
I think he means when its in-game.

And I meant that 32bit color mode slows the game down way too much for me.  Especially my mouse....laggy when in 32bit color mode.  So I play in 16bit color mode :)
Title: Two more things
Post by: daveb on September 25, 2002, 10:12:16 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Sesquipedalian


Really?  I mean, not to contradict the Big Guy, but every PCX I open in the VPs are in 256 colour.  Does this mean that, if one were to put a 16-bit texture in, it would work?


The PCX's themselves are 8 bit, but they're converted to 16 bit internally when loaded. Ergo, if you had a 16 bit targa you could drop it in, assuming you had tga loading code. But the bottom line is - the color depth of the texure files themselves is basically independant of the format once they get into the code.
Title: Two more things
Post by: Sesquipedalian on September 26, 2002, 02:14:49 am
Ah, very cool.  I did not know that.  Thanks for that, Dave. :)
Title: Two more things
Post by: EdrickV on September 27, 2002, 12:49:31 am
The PXO internet code was removed before the source was released, but has anyone tried direct IP multi-player over the net? PXO wasn't the only way to play online, just the best. :)
Title: Two more things
Post by: daveb on September 27, 2002, 12:53:12 am
Quote
PXO wasn't the only way to play online, just the best. :)


Let it be noted henceforth in the annals of history, that this was the one and only time that phrase has ever, or ever will be, uttered.


;)
Title: Two more things
Post by: Sandwich on September 27, 2002, 06:40:51 am
Quote
Originally posted by daveb
Let it be noted henceforth in the annals of history, that this was the one and only time that phrase has ever, or ever will be, uttered.


;)


ROFLMAO!!!
Title: OT
Post by: Fury on September 27, 2002, 12:10:46 pm
I saw weird dream last night...
Me playing FS2 with DX8 upgrade!

You can imagine my feeling when I woke up. :lol:

Detailed info about the dream (if anyone has even slightest interest ;))
Playing TBP:
I was waiting next to a jumpgate, a transport jumped in. Jump animation was a bit strange looking but friggin' cool anyway, tranparency and all that stuff. :)

Then transport's textures begun morphing! :wtf:
Now the transport's textures are animated like blue B5 jump point. :eek2: Really nice looking but extremely weird...

A wing of Zephyrs comes to escort the transports. At this time I notice that I am more like "observer", I can't do anything except move.

Then I notice backgrounds, helluva lot of colours! Almost whole space is full of objects and colours, gives a feeling like you're in 60's version of scifi simulator. :lol:

OK, that's it. :D

Strange... this is my third dream this month of FS2 or TBP...
Wondering what the hell that means...
Title: Re: OT
Post by: Sandwich on September 27, 2002, 05:21:26 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Mr. Fury

Strange... this is my third dream this month of FS2 or TBP...
Wondering what the hell that means...


Quote
Atomica dream lookup:

dream, mental activity associated with the rapid-eye-movement (REM) period of sleep. It is commonly made up of a number of visual images, scenes or thoughts expressed in terms of seeing rather than in those of the other senses or in words. Electroencephalograph studies, measuring the electrical activity of the brain during REM sleep, have shown that young adults dream for 11/2 to 2 hours of every 8-hour period of sleep. Infants spend an average of 50% of their sleep in the REM phase (they are believed to dream more often than adults) a figure which decreases steadily with age. During dreams, blood pressure and heart rate increase, and breathing is quickened, but the body is otherwise immobile. Studies have shown that sleepers deprived of dream-sleep are likely to become irritable and lose coordination skills. Unusually frightening dreams are called nightmares, and daydreams are constructed fantasies that occur while the individual is awake. Studies have demonstrated the existence of lucid dreaming, where the individual is aware that he is dreaming and has a degree of control over his dream.

Sigmund Freud, in his pioneering work The Interpretation of Dreams (1900, tr. 1913), was one of the first to emphasize dreams as keys to the unconscious. He distinguished the manifest content of dreams—the dream as it is recalled by the individual, from the latent content—the meaning of the dream, which Freud saw in terms of wish fulfillment. C. G. Jung held that dreams function to reveal the unconscious mind, anticipate future events, and give expression to neglected areas of the dreamer's personality. Another theory suggests that dreams are a result of electrical energy that stimulates memories located in various regions of the brain, resulting in dreams.


:D
Title: Two more things
Post by: vyper on September 27, 2002, 07:14:32 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Mr. Fury

Strange... this is my third dream this month of FS2 or TBP...
Wondering what the hell that means...  


It means you are spending far too much time on here! :p

*hums star trek - when dreams begin responsibilities*
Title: Two more things
Post by: Solatar on September 27, 2002, 07:37:51 pm
I'm on here too much, way too much,and I don't dream about it. I dream about my girlfriend.
Title: Two more things
Post by: Sesquipedalian on September 28, 2002, 01:34:28 am
Quote
Originally posted by Hades
I'm on here too much, way too much,and I don't dream about it. I dream about my girlfriend.


No, you see, now that one is a wish-fulfilment dream. ;):lol:
Title: Two more things
Post by: vyper on September 28, 2002, 06:48:10 am
Quote
Originally posted by Hades
I'm on here too much, way too much,and I don't dream about it. I dream about my girlfriend.


I just dream about many girls. ;7
Title: Two more things
Post by: aldo_14 on September 28, 2002, 08:44:20 am
Quote
Originally posted by vyper


I just dream about many girls. ;7


At once?;7
Title: Two more things
Post by: Eternal One on September 29, 2002, 12:06:36 am
Quote
Originally posted by aldo_14


At once?;7


What, is there something wrong doing that? ;)
Title: Two more things
Post by: vyper on September 29, 2002, 06:48:10 am
Quote
Originally posted by aldo_14


At once?;7


Oh yeh. :D
Title: Two more things
Post by: RandomTiger on September 29, 2002, 07:19:08 am
Well this topic is now totally derailed.
Title: Two more things
Post by: Fury on September 29, 2002, 07:49:59 am
Sorry. :nervous:

*runs and hides*
Title: Two more things
Post by: aldo_14 on September 29, 2002, 10:51:08 am
Quote
Originally posted by Eternal One


What, is there something wrong doing that? ;)


[sean connery as 007] But, of courshe not [/sean connery as 007]]
Title: Two more things
Post by: Unknown Target on September 30, 2002, 11:01:11 am
Here's another idea:

Could someone PLEASE put in a couple lines of code so that you're able to change the key bindings for straight up/down, strafe left/right, and go backwards?

NOTE: This requires table editing to do normally, but the keys are so incorrectly spaced, it's super uncomftorable.:(
Title: Two more things
Post by: RandomTiger on September 30, 2002, 11:12:09 am
I guess I dont dont fully understand your post but (just out of interest) why do you want this and if it can be done through tables why should we change code?

Quote
PLEASE put in a couple lines of code


I think its best to let coders guess how much work it takes to do a job. You'd be surprised how often something that you would think is really simple actually turns out to be complex. :)
Title: Two more things
Post by: Unknown Target on September 30, 2002, 01:58:15 pm
What I mean is that it is possible to put Newtonian physics into FS thru tables, but the controls that you use to maneuver in the extra axises are fixed, and I was wondering if someone could put it into the code where we could change those controls (By default, they're Z, Num 9, Mun 7, Num +, and Num -, quite uncomftorable when you're trying to fly with the joystick on your right, and you gotta squeegy your hand up next to it)
Title: Two more things
Post by: RandomTiger on September 30, 2002, 02:59:00 pm
Um.. cant you just manually change the keys in the options?
Title: Two more things
Post by: Sandwich on September 30, 2002, 03:40:41 pm
Quote
Originally posted by RandomTiger
Um.. cant you just manually change the keys in the options?


Nope - they aren't in the list. However, if you code wizards were to put them in there..... ;) :D
Title: Two more things
Post by: RandomTiger on September 30, 2002, 04:10:15 pm
(http://www.ijbrooks.demon.co.uk/tom/keys.jpg)

Heres some of them anyway. Hope Im right or Im going to look silly :nervous:, what the hell any excuse for a play around in photoshop. :)
Title: Two more things
Post by: aldo_14 on September 30, 2002, 04:34:02 pm
Quote
Originally posted by RandomTiger
(http://www.ijbrooks.demon.co.uk/tom/keys.jpg)

Heres some of them anyway. Hope Im right or Im going to look silly :nervous:, what the hell any excuse for a play around in photoshop. :)


I think the number keys there are for rotation....the ones that are being referred to are actuallty for sliding / strafing, and they're not used in the game a ssuch.... i.e. they're only really discoverable by fiddling about, and even then only on the Shivan ships.
Title: Two more things
Post by: Sandwich on September 30, 2002, 04:58:50 pm
Quote
Originally posted by aldo_14
...and even then only on the Shivan ships.



...unless you do a bit of simple table editing.
Title: Two more things
Post by: Unknown Target on September 30, 2002, 05:45:53 pm
Actually, thanks to those tables, that's the reason why I first got accepted into the Robotech MOD:D

Anyways, could you guys do that? I think it would add a lot of spice to FS2, and could make a perfect marriage of combat: IWar2-like Newtonian physics, and the super-maneuverable cool-looking space fighters from FS2.
Title: Two more things
Post by: Sesquipedalian on October 01, 2002, 03:29:08 am
Here's another cool idea to go along with that: maybe a Strafe When Pressed key could be added, too, like the Bank When Pressed key?  Then we could strafe just by using the joystick itself.
Title: Two more things
Post by: Bobboau on October 01, 2002, 03:58:34 am
were are the player controle stuffs at;

NM found it
Code: [Select]

ci->sideways = (key_down_timef(KEY_PAD3) - key_down_timef(KEY_PAD1));
ci->vertical = (key_down_timef(KEY_PADPLUS) - key_down_timef(KEY_PADENTER));


lines 809 and 810 in read_keyboard_controls() in player controle.cpp (playerman)
looking into what it should, be, but I'm probly not going to do anything tonight at least

_____________________________________
ok it should be useing check_control_timef() rather than key_down_timef()

ok looks like we'll need to add four more defines to  controlsconfig.h look around line 444
I sudgest
Code: [Select]

#define RIGHT_SLIDE_THRUST 107
#define LEFT_SLIDE_THRUST 108
#define UP_SLIDE_THRUST 109
#define DOWN_SLIDE_THRUST 110

 and we'll need to up #define CCFG_MAX 107
to
#define CCFG_MAX 111

probly be a good general idea to move all the slideing stuf into do_thrust_keys()

so were are the defaults asigned?
Title: Two more things
Post by: LtNarol on October 01, 2002, 07:19:13 am
Quote
Originally posted by Sesquipedalian
Here's another cool idea to go along with that: maybe a Strafe When Pressed key could be added, too, like the Bank When Pressed key?  Then we could strafe just by using the joystick itself.
How bout just change the AI code for attacking subsystems and turrets on larger ships so they dont sit there and pummel away, but instead actually make runs against the target area?
Title: Two more things
Post by: RandomTiger on October 01, 2002, 07:28:57 am
Quote
Originally posted by Sesquipedalian
Here's another cool idea to go along with that: maybe a Strafe When Pressed key could be added, too, like the Bank When Pressed key?  Then we could strafe just by using the joystick itself.


I really like that idea.
Title: Two more things
Post by: IceFire on October 01, 2002, 08:00:54 am
That'd be great for TBP :D

Then we can have some real StarFury moves :)
Title: Two more things
Post by: RandomTiger on October 01, 2002, 08:16:09 am
Is any coder willing to pick up this job?

If not, Im willing to give it a shot after DX8 (if I ever get it finished), however I know nothing about ship tables and stuff like that so Im not really the best person to do it.
Title: Two more things
Post by: Bobboau on October 01, 2002, 08:22:51 am
I'm looking into it
but I don't have a clue as to, anything regarding CVS so..
Title: Two more things
Post by: RandomTiger on October 01, 2002, 08:33:37 am
I suggest you download the manual for reference.
Feel free to give me a shout on icq or e-mail if you have any bother. Im quite happy to do a cvs walkthough for you. The basics are easy once someone has shown you the ropes. :)
Title: Two more things
Post by: Inquisitor on October 01, 2002, 09:01:27 am
Crap, I forgot about getting together with you bobbau.

If RT gets to yah first, great, otherwise email me a time when you are around, and we'll get you working. You're account exists, so, we should be peachy.
Title: Two more things
Post by: Unknown Target on October 01, 2002, 10:51:58 am
Well, if you ever get it done, I'm making a sort of mini-mod, and I'd really like to have the interchangabell  (sp) controls;)

Thnx


Unkown Target
(Which is supposed to be spelled like that, ya know:D)
Title: Two more things
Post by: Righteous1 on October 02, 2002, 10:28:07 am
Bobboau,
You've probably already found it, but it looks like the default bindings are set up in ControlsConfigCommon.cpp in the table:

line ~406: config_item Control_config[CCFG_MAX + 1]
Title: Two more things
Post by: Bobboau on October 17, 2002, 09:10:12 pm
bumping this becase I'v seen a bunch of people asking about adding controles and this has a lot of info about that
Title: Two more things
Post by: RandomTiger on October 18, 2002, 03:58:14 am
Its quite easy actaully, but I chose a special case that lead to problems. Also Bob I've used up slot 107 with my last checkin so you'll have to watch for that when you checkin. :)
Title: Two more things
Post by: Fury on October 18, 2002, 05:37:24 am
Since there is no properly named thread in this forum, I might as well add another thing to the list...
If this has been said before recently, sorry.

How about multi-barreled turrets on sides? In FS2 demo multi-barreled side turrets were enabled, but in full version disabled. Don't know why though. Many ships would be much better looking if they just had better looking turrets, instead of clumsy flatties.
Title: Two more things
Post by: RandomTiger on October 18, 2002, 06:00:53 am
Got screen?
Title: Two more things
Post by: Sandwich on October 18, 2002, 06:16:31 am
Hey... that's my line!!
<-- See?!? ;)
Title: Two more things
Post by: Fry_Day on October 18, 2002, 10:11:51 am
Mr. Fury, I doubt that side multibarreled turrets were enabled in the demo, since I recall their not being included in the game as a code problem that would require hefty amounts of work to be fixed. Bring Screenshots to prove that the demo had those enabled. Perhaps you're confusing with the deimos render which shows it with side turrets that aren't flat, even though it doesn't have them in-game.
Title: Two more things
Post by: RandomTiger on October 18, 2002, 10:53:41 am
If anything the demo is totally cut down visually from the full game. When I was working with trying to load the demo data all the FS2_DEMO defines got rid of stuff.

Lets have some screens and find out whats going on.
Title: Two more things
Post by: Fury on October 18, 2002, 11:05:51 am
Hey, I don't have the FS2 demo. In fact I have never even played it. But many ppl has said that Deimos had multi-barreled turrets on sides. As far as I know, it was never proved otherwise.

I might be wrong though.

Either way, multi-barreled turrets on sides would be excellent addition. Flatties are so poor...
Title: Two more things
Post by: Fury on October 18, 2002, 11:40:59 am
By the way, since you can have a look at how AI works...
Can you tell how turret AI defines what weapon it uses?
I mean, take GTD Orions huge three-barreled turret as an example. Arm it with a beam, a flak and pulse weapons. How AI uses them?

In my own experience, it just sticks with the first weapon, whatever it is.
Title: Two more things
Post by: RandomTiger on October 18, 2002, 11:43:01 am
Righteous1 is the guy to ask about AI
Title: Two more things
Post by: Fury on October 22, 2002, 08:59:44 am
And one more thing...

How about a possibility to change how much shockwaves damages shields, hulls and subsystems? Different mods could use different values.

If you can, you could make this even further... shockwaves in general or by ship or weapon.

Imagine a missile that creates a massive shockwave that disables just every subsystem in radius.

Only problem with that is 2D shockwaves... Hmh, doesnt I-War2 have 3D explosion shockwaves?
Title: Two more things
Post by: Fury on October 23, 2002, 07:40:35 am
Quote
Originally posted by Mr. Fury
By the way, since you can have a look at how AI works...
Can you tell how turret AI defines what weapon it uses?
I mean, take GTD Orions huge three-barreled turret as an example. Arm it with a beam, a flak and pulse weapons. How AI uses them?


Does anyone know?

Is there even any reason to have more than one weapon in one turret? If yes, then what? And if not then why does Orion have three different weapons in it's large turrets?