Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Razor on October 04, 2002, 12:54:57 pm
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:eek:
Ok here is what I saw. On Sky News there was something about a man who took a picture of what was described as an UFO. They say that it's the best yet but of course the guy decided to remain annonymous.
I don't have any pics to post, but do you think that this is true? Is it possible that finally we may have some conclusive evidence of existence of another alien rase or is it just some top secret flying object or a prank of some sort?
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It's probably just some UK equivelant of a red-neck trying to make some quick-cash.
The ship looks almost exactly the same as the famous Oregon 1950 one.
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i know this will throw it completely off topic, and i'm sorry to do this, but:
I don't believe in aliens/extra-terrestrial beings.
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Originally posted by Razor
:eek:
Ok here is what I saw. On Sky News there was something about a man who took a picture of what was described as an UFO. They say that it's the best yet but of course the guy decided to remain annonymous.
I don't have any pics to post, but do you think that this is true? Is it possible that finally we may have some conclusive evidence of existence of another alien rase or is it just some top secret flying object or a prank of some sort?
Basically, no.
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i don't know why i just thought of this, but has anyone ever seen "October Sky"? it's not too old, perhaps 2-4 years old, but it's an awesome movie, isn't it?
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Originally posted by vyper
Basically, no.
Which question answers that?
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!? watch your grammar razor :p
he means no, he doesn't believe in that article or whatever it was
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Originally posted by Stealth
i know this will throw it completely off topic, and i'm sorry to do this, but:
I don't believe in aliens/extra-terrestrial beings.
That doesn't make sence man. Do you think that we are the only intelegent rase in the entire universe. There are billions of systems, galaxies taht may hold life. There were even rumors about a distant planet that may look like Earth. Of course, it's just a rumor.
Besides, I don't think that aliens mannaged to contact us because they might be using a totally different comunication technology like Shivans in Frespace.
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Originally posted by Stealth
!? watch your grammar razor :p
..........dumbass.
Punc-tu-ation. He missed an apostrophe (sp?) at before the s in answers.
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Originally posted by Stealth
!? watch your grammar razor :p
he means no, he doesn't believe in that article or whatever it was
Hey I didn't say anything wrong. I just formulated it differently. Cool down grammar dude.
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Originally posted by an0n
..........dumbass.
Punc-tu-ation. He missed an apostrophe (sp?) at before the s in answers.
an apostrophe is punctuation, but this:
Which question answers that?
is grammar... since a question doesn't answer anything!
...dumbass
EDIT: Razor, i know... i was just kidding, that's why i put the :p smilie in it ;) :wink: :nod: :cool: an0n took it seriously! :p
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Originally posted by Razor
That doesn't make sence man. Do you think that we are the only intelegent rase in the entire universe. There are billions of systems, galaxies taht may hold life. There were even rumors about a distant planet that may look like Earth. Of course, it's just a rumor.
Besides, I don't think that aliens mannaged to contact us because they might be using a totally different comunication technology like Shivans in Frespace.
man hasn't even been out of our galaxy... how can they "predict" that there's other planets that are just like ours, etc. man's got a long, long, looonnnggg way to go before they can start "predicting"
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Originally posted by Stealth
an apostrophe is punctuation, but this:
is grammar... since a question doesn't answer anything!
...dumbass
Which question answer is that?
Which he shortened to:
Which question answer's that?
And he missed the apostrophe, granted, it could be that argued "question answer" should be hyphenated, but **** it.
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People are just speculating that there is life in the universe. Sure it would be stupid that there isn't. In some 400-500 years we might develop technology to leave our galaxy. Look at Freespace. Year 2300-2400. That's not very distant future.
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Originally posted by an0n
Which question answer is that?
Which he shortened to:
Which question answer's that?
And he missed the apostrophe, granted, it could be that argued "question answer" should be hyphenated, but **** it.
Ok mister English american grammar wise guy. Forget it. Back to topic please.
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Originally posted by Razor
:eek:
Ok here is what I saw. On Sky News there was something about a man who took a picture of what was described as an UFO. They say that it's the best yet but of course the guy decided to remain annonymous.
I don't have any pics to post, but do you think that this is true?
Sure. Any flying object is a UFO before its identified, by definition.
Was it a flying space alien ship from beyond?
No. Why?
Physics doesn't stop working, so they'd have had to get here in something slower than light. which means the ship took more than the time it takes for light to get here from Alpha Centauri (about four years was it?). Consider that its taken nearly 30yrs for a single man made object to get to the heliopause. Lets assume the aliens are really really advanced and have some way to travel NEAR the speed of light. We can rule out any of them being from within about 30LY of earth. Why? because we've been listening for EM signals for at least that long and have yet to get anything that looks like a structured transmission. Any species advanced enough to throw a chunk of matter across the interstellar gap will cast off mad EM--unless you're going to assume that somehow, such a civilisation managed to bootstrap itself into space without using EM signals to communicate.
LGMs might be out there, but not in our neck of the woods.
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Originally posted by Razor
People are just speculating that there is life in the universe. Sure it would be stupid that there isn't. In some 400-500 years we might develop technology to leave our galaxy. Look at Freespace. Year 2300-2400. That's not very distant future.
Eh? That's a bit far. If it's possible (ie, within the boundreis if teh universal laws) we'll have FTL within 70 years, and Uber-FTL within 90.
Human technology progresses exponentially, you see, so it won't be too long now.
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I think that is is fairly likely that other life exists somewhere, but not in the form of these UFO things. (you can find people who claim to have seen just about anything these days :p)
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If u dont believe in other species out there in a whole **** load of space, u deserve to be shot in the knee caps, burned, then held under water untill ur at an inch of your life and after that left in a desert to starve ......... well thats what i think anyway :p
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Originally posted by Sheepy
If u dont believe in other species out there in a whole **** load of space, u deserve to be shot in the knee caps, burned, then held under water untill ur at an inch of your life and after that left in a desert to starve ......... well thats what i think anyway :p
Ok now what you just said is that you forbide people to think freely. Of course the guy has an opinion on the topic. So what if he doesn't belive in extra terrestrials. I belive because it doesn't make sence that we are totally alone. By the way, are you from some country where free thinking is forbidden or something? :wtf:
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Yes i obey my master .... What do you require Grand Master an0n?
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Originally posted by Stealth
Razor, i know... i was just kidding, that's why i put the :p smilie in it ;) :wink: :nod: :cool: an0n took it seriously! :p
Ok I get it now. I admit, I took it seriously too. I try to be as carefull with grammar and spelling as often as possible, but as any other human I make mistakes.
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Originally posted by Sheepy
Yes i obey my master .... What do you require Grand Master an0n?
Open a window Sheepy. Get some air!
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Master says fresh air numbs the brain .... master never lies
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Originally posted by Sheepy
Yes i obey my master .... What do you require Grand Master an0n?
A guillotine and a silver platter............and some fireworks.
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*goes to get the items in question ....*
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I do believe in extraterrestial life, but not in that that aliens have visited Earth.
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Originally posted by Stealth
I don't believe in aliens/extra-terrestrial beings.
Me neither. Those liar bastards!
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I beileve quite firmly. But then, I read von Daniken, which has left me with an inability to take religion seriously (even more so than before)
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Originally posted by diamondgeezer
I beileve quite firmly. But then, I read von Daniken...
Don't tell me you buy into that crackpot...
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Originally posted by Sheepy
Master says fresh air numbs the brain .... master never lies
Your lack of clear judgement is evident.
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Originally posted by mikhael
Don't tell me you buy into that crackpot...
:nod:
OK, most of his actual examples are bollocks. He accuses the religious historians of ignoring facts which don't fit their arguments and warping other facts to suit their position, then he goes and does it himself.
However, there are some simple facts which I find very interesting. The fact that the Ark would have made a potent battery and radio reciever. Five thousand year old pyramids which we couldn't rebuild with today's technology. Native American traditions which talk explicitly about travellers form other stars landing in space ships (rather than spirits descending from heaven, etc). The ancient religion of Jainism, which produced pictures of huge flying ships seven thousand years before the Wright Brothers or NASA got their arses into gear. The weird 'mixed' animals we find in pictures from allover the ancient world, the kind of hybrids we could probably reproduce with modern genetic jiggery-pokery.
And what strikes me the most is the fact that, deep down, all the major religions are identical, with only minor cosmetic differences. We find the same stories all over the world - Noah, the Epic of Gilgamesh, and the creation of the world - identical stories, retold to suit the culture telling them but unmistakably the same.
As was pointed out to me during my geology lectures, the story of Genesis is basically correct - first came the heavens, than the earth, than the seas then the plants and animals and then finally us lot. Like I say, all major religions got the creation myth geologically and paleontologically accurate. Impressive stuff for people who thought the world was flat or that the sun came out of the sky god's arse :). Plus, God (or whoever you believe runs the show) is/was one helluva physicist to have come up with stuff like hydrogen bonding and gravity, without which we probably wouldn't be here. Me hat goes off...
And why did the ancient people pay such particular attention to certain stars? The Egyptians, for example, obsessed over Sirrius, even though Sirrius is on the horizon in Egypt and can barely be seen for most of the year. What was so important about it?
How come pyramids in South America, Africa and Asia are aligned with the same stars?
I could happily go on all night, but now I'll get on to the fun stuff. Everyone remember that episode of TNG with the pre-industrial Vulcanoids the Federation were studying? The Ferderation outpost was accidentally revealed to the locals, and Picard had to convince them that he was not an almighty and vengeful god, despite the natives seeing Crusher 'bring someone back from the dead' and the transporter making people disappear into thin air.
And finally, let's look to S:AAB (yeah I know, :rolleyes:. You can say it, I know it). During WWII, the Merkins used Navajo (s/p?) radio operators, since Navajo was the one language the Jerries coudn't crack. So why did Terran Command attempt to deliver false information to the Chigs written in Navajo? How could a completely alien civilization understand a language even humans struggled with? Iiiiinteresting...
Additional point - I know this stuff happens a lot in Merkin Land, but apparently a school up in Sunderland (the NE of England, for those who don't know and who might actully care) has dropped any form of geology or what have you and is now teaching Creationism as the only truth about the history of the world. That makes me so unspeakably angry... this is why I Don't Do Religion(tm)
Right, where's me asbestos underwear? *braces for flames o' plenty*
Wow, that nearly killed me writing all that. I think I'll ctrl+c at this point, just in case... right, enough theology for one day, back to hunting for celebrity porn for me :)
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Originally posted by diamondgeezer
Five thousand year old pyramids which we couldn't rebuild with today's technology.
But could build perfectly easily with 10,000 slaves and several decades. This argument is a bit of old bunk that just won't die, however unconnected to reality it is.
Native American traditions which talk explicitly about travellers form other stars landing in space ships (rather than spirtits descending fomr heaven, etc).
As opposed to the people who live in the clouds, the sea, the trees, etc. THOSE ones are just myths- but when it happens to involve the night sky, hey, they were on to something!
The ancient religion of Jainism, which produced pictures of huge flying ships seven thousand years before the Wright Brothers or NASA got their arses into gear. The pictures of wierd 'mixed' animals we find in pictures from allover the ancient world, the kind of hybrids we could probably reproduce with modern genetic jiggery-pokery.
I'd have to see the pictures, I'll reserve my opinion. And no, you could NOT successfully make a basilisk out of chicken and snake genes, much less make it turn stuff to stone. If you tried a Frankenstein hybrid like that (like any of them), the thing would just plain die in the womb, which isn't the stuff legends are made of. I suppose it's completely irrelevant that children habitually "hybrid" animals of this sort in their imagination as a way of describing unknown animals, too, but hey.
And what strikes me the most is the fact that, deep down, all the major religions are identical, with only minor cosmetic differences. We find the same stories all over the world - Noah, the Epic of Gilgamesh, and the creation of the world - identical stories, retold to suit the culture telling them but unmistakably the same.
Ever try to write a story that has nothing at all in common with any other story ever written? It'll suck. People like very specific things to happen in their plots, and they like it to have something to do with the world they live in. The "great flood" thing is of more interest, since there appears to be some actual evidence of a giant flood, things like water marks on the Sphinx, but I dunno.
As was pointed out to me during my geology lectures, the story of Genesis is basically correct - first came the heavens, than the earth, than the seas then the plants and animals and then finally us lot. Like is say, all major religions got the creation myth geologically accurate. Impressive stuff for people who thought the world was flat or that the sun came out of the sky god's arse
Now THAT'D be a religion I could buy into. :D
Anyway, yes, odd that they should get one thing roughly correct out of a thousand. Odd, particularly because it's really the only thing that'd make sense- if animals came before the Earth, they wouldn't be anyplae, no would they?
How come pyramids in South America, Africa and Asia are aligned with the same stars?
Because they look like something, were more prominent than others, and most theologies of the time worshiped the sky?
Anyway, enough of that. Most of the "theories" that aliens once came down and communicated with mankind have some sort of massive logic hole like this, or don't take into account the fact that humans are much the same everywhere.
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Welly, furry muff Stryke, but if paleo-SETI is as flawed as you say it is then it's no worse off than the major religions, and frankly I'm happier believing in the grey dudes than in the beardy dude - at least they don't demand that I spend sunday mornings freezing my arse off singing about how great they are, and as far as I know, nobody's ever started a war because their neighbours believed in different aliens :)
Man, that was a long sentance
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Originally posted by diamondgeezer
Welly, furry muff Stryke
:wtf: :eek2: I don't wanna know...
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Originally posted by diamondgeezer
Welly, furry muff Stryke, but if paleo-SETI is as flawed as you say it is then it's no worse off than the major religions, and frankly I'm happier believing in the grey dudes than in the beardy dude - at least they don't demand that I spend sunday mornings freezing my arse off singing about how great they are, and as far as I know, nobody's ever started a war because their neighbours believed in different aliens :)
Man, that was a long sentance
My god that had me in stiches ..... must ... stop laughing ....
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Hmph. Don't get me STARTED on religion. Steal all of the ideas the Greeks ever had, make a vengeful asshole of a God, sweeten with a handful of aside statements about love and brotherhood. Use as an excuse to kill millions. Repeat.:rolleyes:
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Originally posted by diamondgeezer
...furry muff
Local expression. Furry muff = fair enough, excrement = excellent, etc. That's student living for ya.
Originally posted by Stryke 9
Hmph. Don't get me STARTED on religion. Steal all of the ideas the Greeks ever had, make a vengeful asshole of a God, sweeten with a handful of aside statements about love and brotherhood. Use as an excuse to kill millions. Repeat.:rolleyes:
[Morpheus] I know exactly what you mean [/Morpheus]
You just summed what I hate about religion. Have a cookie.
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Originally posted by diamondgeezer
How come pyramids in South America, Africa and Asia are aligned with the same stars?
Stryke got most of the rest, but I'll address this one particularly.
1) Pyramids in Egypt are aligned to the compass points. The pyramids clustered around Kufu''s (the Great) Pyramid are arranged in the same pattern as Orion's belt. Egyptian pyramids show a very clear trial-and-error history. The earliest known structures are simple rectilinear mounds. Later, there were stepped or layered pyramids, followed by an attempt at a very steep smooth pyramid. That one, however, did not have a good enough foundation to support the weight, so the sides were recalculated and built to a different angle (hence the name the 'bent pyramid'). Finally, during the same period as the first layered pyramid and the bent pyramid, the first "proper" pyramid was built. None of these first pyramids were aligned with anything. I
2) Meso-american pyramids, particularly those of Incan, Mayan and Aztec origin tend to be aligned for the solstices and equinoxes. They are usually found over the site of an undergournd spring or other source of water. Also, many are set so that their tips line up with the summits of nearby mountains.
3) Chinese pyramids are not known to be aligned with anything, and have little in common with either meso-american or Egyptian pyramids.
When I was a child, I had wooden blocks. I discovered early on that balancing tall towers of blocks was difficult. However, if I used a broad base, and made smaller and smaller layers as I got higher, I discovered that I could build shorter, but more stable stacks. I'm no genius, and no space aliens visited me, but I worked out the basic principles of pyramid building on my own. Now, lets say the ancient egyptians didn't have blocks. They DID have hourglasses filled with sand. Falling sand in an hourglass demonstrates the creation of a pyramid easily.
And whilst we're talking about pyramids, how come no one ever remembers Babylonian and Mesopotamian ziggurats? They were, after all, startlingly similar to meso-american pyramids, though they weren't aligned with anything. Their tops were carved with constellations and star patterns. Lest anyone think that was mysterious, I should point out that Babylonians did have perfect functional necks and could see the night sky. ;)
There's no need to conjure up little green men to explain away feats of human ingenuity. To do so trivialises the accomplishments of our species.
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Random things:
Genesis gets the story wrong, unless I'm misremembering my Bible: The Sun and stars came long before the Earth. I believe that Genesis has the earth created and THEN God saying "Let there be Light..."
And what strikes me the most is the fact that, deep down, all the major religions are identical, with only minor cosmetic differences. We find the same stories all over the world - Noah, the Epic of Gilgamesh, and the creation of the world - identical stories, retold to suit the culture telling them but unmistakably the same.
Your statement about "all major religions" fails to handle anything but judeochristian (and by extension, Islamic) dogma. Buddhism, Hindu (in its various pre- and post-Vedic flavors), the Aboriginal Dreamtime, and most African and North and South American (previous to forced Catholic and Pentacostal conversions) religions. What most (but not all) of these religions DO have in common is a set of fundamental social strictures that layout how people should act toward each other in groups.
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OK, we all seen the film Pi, right? Now, I'm ****e with numbers, but I followed what the random jewish dude was explaining about the mathematical patterns in the Torrah (s/p? my bad). Is there a good reason why the Torrah (and supposedly the Bible, tho I guess they're at least half the same) should have these patterns?
Side note --> Any body following that new investigation of the great pyramid? Von Daniken wrote a chapter about Gattenbrink's first attempt to explore the shaft back in 1993, but I had no idea they were broadcasting the latest attempt live until it was too late and I'd missed it. What do we all reckon is in there? Von Daniken reckoned maybe Enoch hid the book of Adam in there (supposedly a talking book made of a single blue crystal which contained all the knowledge of the universe and endowed it's bearer with uber-wisdom, ala King David etc). I personally reckon if they get to the end they'll find either a derelict flying saucer or a brick wall with 'Sucka' written in hieroglyphs...
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Well my theory is that ever notice that the only people who are 'abducted' by aliens are theory old trailer park white trash, well that's my point, they must of just came home too drunk to rember much but what they think they saw, so they are just thinking they were 'abducted' by aliens. Also with UFOs. If 'UFOs' existed wouldent they be flying over citys and other places BESIDES Alabama and Texas, god, were these thing are flying it make you wonder, who the hell would live there in the first place, thaats why its in the desert, possibly it could be a project from the government(kind of stupid idea but still could be possible) or it could just be some retard flying a kite.
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Originally posted by Dr.Zer0
...ever notice that the only people who are 'abducted' by aliens are theory old trailer park white trash...
Mebbe on your side of the pond mate, but that's not true of our abductees. Perhaps that's because we don't have trailer trash, but anyway over here all sorts of folks get the bright-light-and-drlll treatment...
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Originally posted by diamondgeezer
OK, we all seen the film Pi, right? Now, I'm ****e with numbers, but I followed what the random jewish dude was explaining about the mathematical patterns in the Torrah (s/p? my bad). Is there a good reason why the Torrah (and supposedly the Bible, tho I guess they're at least half the same) should have these patterns?
Have you ever looked at the decimal representations for Pi or Euler's number? Long strings of data, like trancendental numbers and text strings from immense books, will always show emergent patterns. Its a known psychological effect generated by the pattern recognition bits of your brain. Your brain searches for order in gibberish until it finds something that it can sieze upon.
Side note --> Any body following that new investigation of the great pyramid? Von Daniken wrote a chapter about Gattenbrink's first attempt to explore the shaft back in 1993, but I had no idea they were broadcasting the latest attempt live until it was too late and I'd missed it. What do we all reckon is in there? Von Daniken reckoned maybe Enoch hid the book of Adam in there (supposedly a talking book made of a single blue crystal which contained all the knowledge of the universe and endowed it's bearer with uber-wisdom, ala King David etc). I personally reckon if they get to the end they'll find either a derelict flying saucer or a brick wall with 'Sucka' written in hieroglyphs...
The probe looked past the plug and found.... another plug. See the recent story over at Slashdot.
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I saw a Sathanas fly over my apartment... Does that count as a UFO? :)
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I suggest Carl Sagan's book "The Demon Haunted World" when it comes to "UFO Abductions". I'll even recommend it for that Crop Circles nonsense.
In short, consider that a known condition, which effects most human beings called 'sleep paralysis' happens to have almost EXACTLY the same sensory effects as those ascribed to "ufo abductions", and those effects are noncultural. They're near identical from Europe to African to Asia to South America.
Consider also that "alien abduction" stories change as times change. Before they were Grays, people were abducted by elves and faeries. We don't believe in the Fae anymore, so we get creatures who said they were "Martians". Once the Martian canals were disproved by scientists with a little less credulity, martians stopped visiting earth. Funny thing though: before global radio and television alien abduction/visitation stories were distinct. Now that it take a few seconds to bounce a signal from New York to Sydney, we get homogenised 'aliens'
Sorry, if there's a mundane explanation, it tends to be the right one. Alien abductions are normal dreamlike states experienced by normal people. They are overlaid in the mind with whatever religio-cultural folderol the person happens to which the 'victim' happens to subscribe. There's nothing extraordinary here except the propensity of people to ascribe to the supernatural and supernormal that which can be explained by the natural and normal.
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Have you ever looked at the decimal representations for Pi or Euler's number? Long strings of data, like trancendental numbers and text strings from immense books, will always show emergent patterns. Its a known psychological effect generated by the pattern recognition bits of your brain. Your brain searches for order in gibberish until it finds something that it can sieze upon.
I have not really seen anything like that in any constants (Khinchin, Stieltjes, etc.), although there are occassional places where one can find something like 0123456789 in a row or stuff like that. Is that the type of thing you mean?
Although I agree with you about this UFO thing; not credible enough to warrant a second look.
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Originally posted by Cannikin
I saw a Sathanas fly over my apartment... Does that count as a UFO? :)
well you aredy identified it, so that dosent make it an official UFO ;)
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excrement = excellent
I first thought this said "excretement" or something... :p :D
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Originally posted by CP5670
I have not really seen anything like that in any constants (Khinchin, Stieltjes, etc.), although there are occassional places where one can find something like 0123456789 in a row or stuff like that. Is that the type of thing you mean?
Although I agree with you about this UFO thing; not credible enough to warrant a second look.
Transcendentals are fun. You can find words, dates, all kinds of stuff in them. In theory, you could use pi or e as a perfect means for sharing data (offset x, length y, codec z). The only catch is that in most cases, the formula for getting the data is longer and slower than just passing the data in some other more convenient manner.
The key here is the inherent properties of transcendentals. They're infinite in length and never repeat (if their repeated, they wouldn't be transcendental). Infinite length and nonrepitition leads logically to infinite combinations of data in the stream.
The universe is full of seemingly chaotic events that, when looked at from the right perspective, show emergent patterns. The human mind is at its core a pattern recognition device (its how we recognise faces, or see shapes in clouds, or make those annoying pictures become 3d when you look at them right). It can hardly be thought of as supernatural or supernormal that the mind finds patterns emerging from seemingly chaotic streams of data.
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SG-1!!!!! WEEEEEEEE! YEAH!
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Originally posted by diamondgeezer
Mebbe on your side of the pond mate, but that's not true of our abductees. Perhaps that's because we don't have trailer trash, but anyway over here all sorts of folks get the bright-light-and-drlll treatment...
No, our trash live in hi-rises and wear Kappa. As such, the bright flahs of a neon yellow tracksuit acts as a beacon to UFOs. Unfortunately, aliens are allergic to buckast, and thus very few neds are ever abducted.
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Originally posted by aldo_14
No, our trash live in hi-rises and wear Kappa. As such, the bright flahs of a neon yellow tracksuit acts as a beacon to UFOs. Unfortunately, aliens are allergic to buckast, and thus very few neds are ever abducted.
:lol: :lol: :lol:
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we don't use saucers because our technology is advanced enough that we can balance our ships with uber gyroscopes and the like. that and spikes look so darned cool.
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Lets clear something which really, really annoys me, in other words im going to rant. UFO means Unidentified Flying Object, Alien Spaceship means something with dudes from outerspace/underthesea or whatever. A UFO can be anything you dont recognise. It doesnt mean its alien, you CANNOT disprove the existance of UFO's. Let me stress a UFO is an Unidentified Flying Object, in other words, a thing in the sky, that is flying and you do not know what is it.
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Originally posted by Stealth
i don't know why i just thought of this, but has anyone ever seen "October Sky"? it's not too old, perhaps 2-4 years old, but it's an awesome movie, isn't it?
Such a good movie! I love it! It's really good...we had to read the book version for school this year.