Hard Light Productions Forums
Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => The Modding Workshop => Topic started by: aldo_14 on October 11, 2002, 02:18:19 pm
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Right....um, I've been thinking about this, and I decided I like the idea.
Basically it's ostensably a multiplayer mod type thing, ala UT2003 in idea... deathmatches. hopefully supported by a wee single player element for ****s n' giggles.... anyway, here's my idea in FULL (eek)
- Basic aims
A fully customised FS2 deathmatch mod, with a number of custom arenas, balanced ships and weapons. An additional sinlge player element sort of focusing on a 1 vs 1, 1 vs 2, etc tournament, where the player has to win matches to progress...where the player can earn the right to unlock the various ships.
- Ships;
Um... the idea would be that every modder creates a 'signature' ship of their own, custom, design. hoepfully the freedom to create your own 'dream' ship will encourage people to create them... as such, a hell of a lot of flexibility on polycounts would be allowed.
Each ship could be balanced based on a points system...I'm still thinking about how this would work, but they'd obviously be a points limit. Points can be spent in top speed, afterburner speed & fuel use, armour, shielding (more expensive), reactor power, turning time (inversely proportional), weapons capability(maybe assign a value to each avaiable weapon), secondary loadout, countermeasures and the number of banks / hardpoints.
(or maybe, simply setting point limits on power (speed, etc), armour and weapons)
The idea being to balance it all out equally. Probably also a min ship size of 14m, and a max of 60m (for realism).
-Arenas
- This, I'm not exactly sure of. It may be neat to create indoors environments for dogfights...but the AI would hate it for any single player stuff. A set of prefabs for in-space (i.e. derelict hull shells for hiding in, spectator stands, planets, etc) could be neat in helping vary stuff.
- Weapons
Not really something I'm familiar with, but I'd imagine having loads of wacky concepts to go with more standard ideas... stuff like kinetic lasers (stop ships dead), heavy leech guns, shield sappers, et al would be neat. Or maybe even being able to use TAG missiles (with an in-arena beam cannon thing that targets TAGed ships)... I guess this would be entirely down to the imagination of whoever makes the weapons.
A points system based on fire rate, damage (multiplied by the various factors and added up), energy usage, et al would be useufl for the aformentioned balancing.....
- Single player
This could be neat... if we set it up as a sort of merc contest, going up against ever more powerful opponents (with new tbl stats so as not to disrupt MP balancing), and unusual arenas. with some sort of background like a team competition, or the player revenging a friend killed by the champion.
could have a 'credits' system where the player is awarded a (preserved throughout the campaign) cash prize for doing certain things.... the player could then choose how to spend it in intermediate missions with a sort keypress scenarios (shop missions, basically). Or have bonus SOC loop style challenges to earn extra cash. The weapons compatibility thing could be an issue (how to ensure player can take the weapon on their ship?)... might be able to work into account a simple repair system by preserving the players' damage inbetween missions. Or something.
- Multiplayer
The sort of crux of this, I guess. The idea would be to give a really interesting enviroment for people to play MP in - finely balanced, and almost like a sort of deathmatch crossed with descent (if we get internal environments....)
- other stuff
Interface, music, sounds, etc..... I guess it could be done...... ;)
-Summary
I guess, this sounds like a hell of a lot of work. But I think that, if this gets up and running, we can allow enough freedom of expression to get loads of people to make relatively minor contributions.... I hope that we get many people willing to contribute small things, to make a really neat whole.
The main idea, is that everyone who can, (and wants to) contributes a single thing - their 'hallmark' on the mod, and that this takes them not much time individually, but makes for a greater whole package.
Who's up for it, then?
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Great idea. But you're forgetting, not everyone can just "make" their own dream ship. It's not that simple.
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With a bit of luck, I'll be joining the UAS, so I won't have any time to myself at all. Bonus!
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Originally posted by Hades
Great idea. But you're forgetting, not everyone can just "make" their own dream ship. It's not that simple.
I know. But those who can model to any degree, or mod weapons, or whatever, I think, should be interested (or at least curious) in having a shot at it. I'm thinking this would be a 'true' community project, and thus reflect the varied skills of everyone.
DG; UAS?
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I think that's a great idea, the best since the Source Code Project. Everybody can make what they want, as long as it is "fair". If we do it, I'm in.:D
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what about defense turrets and custom weapons?
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I like the idea, but we need serious work to get it running, with external servers, (without PXO, since it does not support mods).
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Originally posted by LtNarol
what about defense turrets and custom weapons?
We'd obv need custom weapons - lets the weapons modders 'do their thang'.... defense turrets, yep - although something would be needed to balance it.
I'd say, anything goes. The only necessity is that it be reasonably balanced to make it fair.
Originally posted by Stunaep
I like the idea, but we need serious work to get it running, with external servers, (without PXO, since it does not support mods).
Yeah..that is a possible problem, certainly. It's partly why I suggested a singleplayer thing, too. But I think there are a few people with good connections here, and I think it should be possible. After all, the Babylon Project AFAIK gets some multiplayer games going.
EDIT; I've set up a geocities account...my idea is that everyone who wants to contribute e-mails me and I distribute the ftp settings for it... and every few days I'll use me high-speed Uni connection to transfer files to the Reciprocity dir (to ensure the geocities account doesn't get full) if need be, but I'd ensure every contributor has access / adresses to the files on either server.
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This is an interesting idea, but I think that some of it needs some major clarification. :) For instance, what's that thing about "shop" missions? As far as online 1 on 1 games, for something like that a good thing might be to have an impartial judge in a protected ship to witness the fight. They, or some other third party, could run the server. One big question: What exe would you be using for this? The fs2_open or the regular one? That will have some impact on things.
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Originally posted by EdrickV
This is an interesting idea, but I think that some of it needs some major clarification. :) For instance, what's that thing about "shop" missions? As far as online 1 on 1 games, for something like that a good thing might be to have an impartial judge in a protected ship to witness the fight. They, or some other third party, could run the server. One big question: What exe would you be using for this? The fs2_open or the regular one? That will have some impact on things.
fs2_open could be nice, since PXO service is not needed anyway. That way, the use of the tournament mode could be simplified for the average player as well.
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Originally posted by EdrickV
This is an interesting idea, but I think that some of it needs some major clarification. :) For instance, what's that thing about "shop" missions? As far as online 1 on 1 games, for something like that a good thing might be to have an impartial judge in a protected ship to witness the fight. They, or some other third party, could run the server. One big question: What exe would you be using for this? The fs2_open or the regular one? That will have some impact on things.
Um..shop missions; my idea is to have a sort of simple single player campaign thing, where you can earn 'money' through completing events or achieving certain things (I think you could variables for this, sort a running score.... need clarification though). Because you couldn't choose what ships or weapons to unlock in the brieifing screens, the best way I can think to allow the player to 'shop' is to set up a mission dedicated to buying this stuff. I.e. when you hit one key, it unlocks a ship (provided you have the cash) and updates your total, or you hit another key to select a weapon, etc. (using the allow-ship and allow weapon sexps). It's complex for what it is, but the only way I can think of to do it
I'd like to use the fs2_open, so long as it has the requisite netcode. Seeing as PXO isn't important for this, there's no major reason for requiring the normal fs2 exe, and maybe some stuff like otimisations will be of use in the future. Glows, in particualr, would be neat for differentiating ship types. There's obviously a LOT of stuff the source code could be used for - especially AI - but it would be selfish to just expect people from the SCP to do when I can't do it myself.
What I'd really love to do at some point would be to make essentially a standalone' game' - i.e. brand new interface, et al so no FS2 data is required - as a freeware release and try and convince the odd Pc mag to carry it on a demo disk. But that is literally just a dream at the moment, and I'm not sure it's even allowed under the licensing agreement.
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Originally posted by aldo_14
DG; UAS?
University Air Squadron - I wanna join the RAF when I leave Uni, god help me...
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Originally posted by diamondgeezer
University Air Squadron - I wanna join the RAF when I leave Uni, god help me...
That makes you the second person I know who does, then....
anyway, back on topic - I did some idle speculation last night on stuff;
http://www.3dap.com/hlp/hosted/reciprocity/aldostuff/stuff.htm
The most relevant stuff is the balancing equations. I fno-one objects, or has a better idea, I'll setup an excel document to autocalculate these to mak eit easier for people tobalance their ships.
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For the points system, you can say 'here's twenty thousand space-dollars, here's a list of which ship parts cost what. Knock yourself out.'
Clan matches could be interesting, with people building ships to fill a specific role in a squad but find they're useless on their own, like a heavy bomber or summat
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Originally posted by diamondgeezer
For the points system, you can say 'here's twenty thousand space-dollars, here's a list of which ship parts cost what. Knock yourself out.'
Clan matches could be interesting, with people building ships to fill a specific role in a squad but find they're useless on their own, like a heavy bomber or summat
Well, you can't actually change ships stats dynamically ingame (cept allowing the weapons to the player), so this hideously complicated looking thing does just that. There's potential for some really neat ideas, like heavily armoured slothships or even stupidly fast guided missiles with no turning ability whatsoever ;7
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Originally posted by aldo_14
... or even stupidly fast guided missiles with no turning ability whatsoever ;7
Yay!
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*dreams of dogfighting inside a Dyson Sphere with a 32-gunbank Erinyes*
;7
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yeah, sounds like a good idea
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personally i think that the multiplayer side of fs2 should be improoved and may give to this game a longer life
don't know if someone of you knows about xwing versus tiefighters
well i still play on it, there still are people playing on it, there still are monthly tournaments (week of wars, check battlestats.com) althought it is an ancient game... obviously there actually 1/3 of the players of one year ago, during tournaments weeks there aren't more of 80 players a day during the high traffic moments, but it still is alive (althought in agony) thats because it was one of the first -if not the first- multiplayer oriented games ever, something like quake3 but for a space sim... the point is that its netcode is...well....:rolleyes:
on a certain point of view i started the sw mod with the little hope of building an alternative and the source code MAY give the conditions to do so
well...
i'm here:)
i agree with you aldo, a stand alone game would be great, the point is that dedicated servers may be very necessary and as far as i know none checked if dedicated servers have been ripped with pxo stuff
on the other side mods doesn't seem to work with regular fs2exe on tcp/ip, and none knows if they works with dedicated servers
a little idea i posted sometimes ago on scp forum was this (related to the possibility to save game stats from one mission to another):
little multiplayer campaign,
5 missions (maybe more): mission 1, 2a, 2b, 3a, 3b
mission 1 is the starting point, if team A wins 2nd mission will be the 2a, if Team B wins 2nd mission will be 2b
if second mission is 2a, if team A wins again 3d mission is 3a, if team B wins, the campaing steps back to mission 1
the campaign is over when a team win mission 3
in each mission teams starts with a defined amount of forces + the forces saved in the precedent mission (for example mission 3 may be set very difficult for the "attacking" team giving different starting forces)
this may be a little representation of a hipotetic strategy game: a 5 areas linear battleground, first mission represents the middle area, 3thd missions represents the extremities of the battleground (the team base), the goal is to conquer enemy base, different strategic situations may be set for the different missions (for example, mission 1: melee, mission 2: attack to a fleet, mission 3: attack to a base)
a "counterstirke" mod for fs2, with fast shipselection/loadout shop screens would also be great (so with goals, time to reach goals, money for kills/goals reached, modified redalerts after each round to update moneys and change equipment,..)
point is.. how hard will be to make necessary changes to sc? and more important will someone do that changes?
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As far as I know, right now the only things that are preserved between missions are event/goal status (true/false) and, when using red alert missions, the status of ships carried over from the previous mission. The only way to do a seperate shop level would be to store data in a fake ship that is carried over from one mission to the other. (And all would have to end in red alerts.) The trick is, you wouldn't be able to change weapon/ships because a red alert doesn't let you. On the other hand, you could use SEXPs to keep track of things during a mission and at the end of the mission do shop stuff. But your point balance would be wiped out at mission end and you'd start at 0 in the next mission. I have seen nothing that says variables can be carried over from mission to mission. (This all is, of course, going by how the program works right now. Source code changes could allow just about anything.) Rather then using key presses, you could use something like targets they would destroy or have the player go to a particular ship to get a particular thing. You would need events/goals to keep track of what weapons/ships have been unlocked in order to keep them from trying to unlock them again. I could make a small example campaign showing how this would work.
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It would be nice to have something like a custom battle mode - you have a certain amount of points available for fighters/bombers and capships (seperated funds). You select your fleet, the enemy his and start the fighting!
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Originally posted by KARMA
i agree with you aldo, a stand alone game would be great, the point is that dedicated servers may be very necessary and as far as i know none checked if dedicated servers have been ripped with pxo stuff
on the other side mods doesn't seem to work with regular fs2exe on tcp/ip, and none knows if they works with dedicated servers
Well. my primary aim / idea is a sort of mod pack of ships and missions specially designed for multiplayer 'deathmathc' stylee games... directly influenced by stuff like Quake 3 and UT. which could then be expanded as more work is done, or new ideas occur, or as the SC changes. Y' know, baby steps first :)
But, I'm 95% sure that multiplayer can be done with norm FS2 on dedicated servers with mods - I think the babylon project does it, in particular.
What I imagine is sort of a blend between Descent and FS2.... ships of all types and designs... both 'battlebug' type things (my favourite at the mo, actually) better suited to internal dogfights (I have ideas for internal 'arenas'), or more conventional fighter designs, or whatever. The idea being that, to make a dedicated FS2-type mod, you need to know a very particular style of design and texturing. But for this, people can have real freedom to work in the way they find best, which should prove an attraction. I hope.
I'm pretty sure, too that variables can be preserved inbetween missions. I remember it being mentioned for a Star Trek mod.. which kept a running total of the ships 'assimilated' between missions. I think.
EDIT; I now DEFINATELY think using the fs2_open is a good idea, seeing as I've been told it's only the PXO multiplayer stuff that was removed.
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I don't think that the in-mission swapping would be too hard, but I haven't delved too far into the source code. I would love to make a few models for this, and not just player ships either...
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Sounds like a pretty good idea :nod:
You can count me in!
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Originally posted by aldo_14
What I'd really love to do at some point would be to make essentially a standalone' game' - i.e. brand new interface, et al so no FS2 data is required - as a freeware release and try and convince the odd Pc mag to carry it on a demo disk. But that is literally just a dream at the moment, and I'm not sure it's even allowed under the licensing agreement.
We, the fs2_open coders are looking into how to get our exe working with the demo data. Then people who dont have the game could download it and it could be legally changed and distributed. Not an easy task, but its something many people want for different reasons so it might well happen.
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Originally posted by RandomTiger
We, the fs2_open coders are looking into how to get our exe working with the demo data. Then people who dont have the game could download it and it could be legally changed and distributed. Not an easy task, but its something many people want for different reasons so it might well happen.
Yeah, not easy at all because from comments in the source code it looks like the demo code may have gotten forked off of the main source tree so there are changes between the two that are not marked as demo things. Apparently the source code couldn't build the 1.1 demo without changes even before the Interplay/PXO stuff was removed. So far the biggest difference I know of is a minor fix, but there may be others that aren't easy to diagnose or repair. It depends on just how much the code changed.
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Originally posted by aldo_14
What I'd really love to do at some point would be to make essentially a standalone' game' - i.e. brand new interface, et al so no FS2 data is required - as a freeware release and try and convince the odd Pc mag to carry it on a demo disk. But that is literally just a dream at the moment, and I'm not sure it's even allowed under the licensing agreement.
The Licence agreement sais, you are allowed to distribute it, unless you try to make profit, as I recall Sandwich saying at some point.
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Some wipshots of something I was doing for this....pretty high poly (1028 in 3 subobjects) and the mesh still has to be optimized a bit.
(http://www.3dap.com/hlp/hosted/reciprocity/aldostuff/scuz1.jpg)
(http://www.3dap.com/hlp/hosted/reciprocity/aldostuff/scuz2.jpg)
(http://www.3dap.com/hlp/hosted/reciprocity/aldostuff/scuz3.jpg)
(http://www.3dap.com/hlp/hosted/reciprocity/aldostuff/scuz4.jpg)
(http://www.3dap.com/hlp/hosted/reciprocity/aldostuff/scuz5.jpg)
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aldo i'll surely do a couple of fighters, i already have the (cool i think) ideas, but swmod has the precedence (its a bit that i'm not working at it, for some reason or another), so i think that it will take at least a couple of months to do what i'm thinking about, and as my mates knows i do just limited pof editing
except for this lemme share some more ideas:
from starwars games and 3d shooters we can learn something important: often the "success" depends on the way weapons (and units) are balanced... i make an example from starwars.. there are some variables that determine the capacities of fighters:
shield/no shield, live points, top speed, maneuvrability, turning range (the "size" of the circle done while turning), rate of fire, firepower, size of the ship
the point is that the sw fighters are extremely characterized in each of these variables, and the combination of those variables change the way you have to pilot (i can spend hours explaining the specifics of each fighters and the meaning of the variables for your flying style)
in quake3 you have weapons like railguns or rocket launchers and so long, in tribes your armor determine your role, as so in counterstrike does your weapon (assault, sniper..)
nice models are surely important but balancing the game stats will be even more important
another point: we won't have "maps" like in a 3d shooter, nebulas backgrounds and asteroids will be useful, but we can also make melees with battleground delimited by capital ships firing at any fighters reaching the edges, space stations and maybe again capital ships firing at fighters in the middle of the battleground, and so long, and those elements may be set (and maybe designed/modelled) specifically to create strategic situations to deal with and will change from deatmach melees to team melees
I was thinking (about the "internal" melees) for example at a space station with a big "cave" area (the "internal"), this area is inside cave cilinders that rotates, if you put holes on these cilinders it will be like doors opening and closing, some will remain open very long, some others very short, depending on rotation speed and lenght of the holes, now put that base between the respawn areas of two teams and here is a nice team melee:), we could also put mines or turrets or capital ships on the edges of the base to make the path very difficult if you want to bypass the inside area
we could for example set this situation like a mission instead of a melee: in the team respawn area there is a ship to destroy or to dock with or whatever, and the two areas are separated by this station, you may also try sneak attacks following the external path, the one with mines/turrets/capships....
there are really a lot of very nice multiplayer situations that can be done...why don't we ask a new forum where to share those ideas?
last consideration: to increase game playability we should make as many lods as possible
oh and very nice models btw;)
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Originally posted by KARMA
aldo i'll surely do a couple of fighters, i already have the (cool i think) ideas, but swmod has the precedence (its a bit that i'm not working at it, for some reason or another), so i think that it will take at least a couple of months to do what i'm thinking about, and as my mates knows i do just limited pof editing
:nod:
Originally posted by KARMA
except for this lemme share some more ideas:
from starwars games and 3d shooters we can learn something important: often the "success" depends on the way weapons (and units) are balanced... i make an example from starwars.. there are some variables that determine the capacities of fighters:
shield/no shield, live points, top speed, maneuvrability, turning range (the "size" of the circle done while turning), rate of fire, firepower, size of the ship
the point is that the sw fighters are extremely characterized in each of these variables, and the combination of those variables change the way you have to pilot (i can spend hours explaining the specifics of each fighters and the meaning of the variables for your flying style)
in quake3 you have weapons like railguns or rocket launchers and so long, in tribes your armor determine your role, as so in counterstrike does your weapon (assault, sniper..)
nice models are surely important but balancing the game stats will be even more important
I absolutely agree... balancing will be critical, as will ensuring ships are varied enough that people can select one that suits them.
Have you looked at the link I posted a page or so ago? It sort of summarises a possible way of ensuring all ships are evenly matched, yet can have advantages... it is just a WIP though, as I'm not a natural with equations.
(here;
http://www.3dap.com/hlp/hosted/reciprocity/aldostuff/stuff.htm )
Originally posted by KARMA
another point: we won't have "maps" like in a 3d shooter, nebulas backgrounds and asteroids will be useful, but we can also make melees with battleground delimited by capital ships firing at any fighters reaching the edges, space stations and maybe again capital ships firing at fighters in the middle of the battleground, and so long, and those elements may be set (and maybe designed/modelled) specifically to create strategic situations to deal with and will change from deatmach melees to team melees
I was thinking (about the "internal" melees) for example at a space station with a big "cave" area (the "internal"), this area is inside cave cilinders that rotates, if you put holes on these cilinders it will be like doors opening and closing, some will remain open very long, some others very short, depending on rotation speed and lenght of the holes, now put that base between the respawn areas of two teams and here is a nice team melee:), we could also put mines or turrets or capital ships on the edges of the base to make the path very difficult if you want to bypass the inside area
we could for example set this situation like a mission instead of a melee: in the team respawn area there is a ship to destroy or to dock with or whatever, and the two areas are separated by this station, you may also try sneak attacks following the external path, the one with mines/turrets/capships....
there are really a lot of very nice multiplayer situations that can be done...why don't we ask a new forum where to share those ideas?
I agree with everything you're saying...I've already tried to model a simple 'arena'. Fully internal Descent-style levels are possible, but I think what you're suggesting sounds better IMO... I sort of fancy the idea of having a few levels where you can fly into the hollowed out shells of capships and fighter there ;7... certianly there is a LOT you can do to spice it up... I think this is a concept never attempted before, which is why it interests me.
As for a forum... I'll ask someone about hosting if it looks like we're going to get enough people. The Squadwar forum could be used in the meantime, maybe... - I'll ask one of the Admin about it.
The main problem is that i already have a pretty heavy workload, and I'm a wee bit concerned whether I'd be able to manage both this, Reciprocity and also working on the various other things I've said I'll do.... but I'm VERY enthusiastic about this idea, regardless - I'd just like to find someone who is willing to handle the project too. Hoepfully we can get enough people to contribute, so that no-one finds themselves overburdened.
Originally posted by KARMA
last consideration: to increase game playability we should make as many lods as possible
oh and very nice models btw;)
Yup. I'd say - IMO - have a poly limit of about 1000 for LODed models, and about 300 if people can't LOD (although I'd really rather everything be well LODed)... and have, for example, more LODs for higher poly ships;
i.e.
LOD1; 50-100polys
LOD2; 100-200
LOD3; 200-350
LOD4; 350-500 (equiv of normal FS2 ships)
LOD5; 500-700
LOD6; 700-850
LOD7; 850-1000
Or soforth.... I figure the average number of ships will be relatively low, hence the lesser number of polys... also having VERY tight detial distances will help. (NB: I'm thinking 2-4 in a straight deathmatch, as there is 4 teams, and maybe teams of 3 for T Vs T). I suppose a bit of research into how to try and reduce the internet lag will be required... i.e. seeing if any graphical factors can be optimised. Hopefully some optimisation can be done on the SC, but I wouldn't hold my breath (possibly the last priority for the SC team)
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Here's a pic of mine.
(http://w1.520.telia.com/~u52019065/fst2k3/fst2k31.jpg)
I've never done a fighter beyond the modeling bit. Then there's thrusters and stuff..... ahh well.
I should have, what 3 LODS?
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indoor levels, i can do w/o much pb ( did some tests for my old descent project ).
An important thing, I think, is to make everything go much faster ( think the difference between, say, medal of honor and quake3 ). this way it will be more fun, coz face it, when you're behind someone else, your target is doomed, in FS2.
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That's it, take my idea for the Worldcraft project and twist and pervert it to your own ends.:mad2: :D
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Rightyho, then....I gave Shrike a Pm, and he has no objection to using the SW forum for a few discussions on this (seeing as it is the multiplayer forum). So from here on, I'd like it if you only posted to say you'd be willing to assist (i.e. make a model or weapon), or give a general opinion.
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well, i'll help then ( when I can ).
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(http://w1.520.telia.com/~u52019065/fst2k3/fst2k32.jpg)
Should I update here or in of the threads in SW forum?
My texture creation skillz are fairly bad, but I think, this i progress regardless.
I may have gone over the top a bit with the lines, though. :D
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Originally posted by Ryx
I may have gone over the top a bit with the lines, though. :D
Then give it to Venom, he can deal with OTT stuff. :p
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Originally posted by Ryx
(http://w1.520.telia.com/~u52019065/fst2k3/fst2k32.jpg)
Should I update here or in of the threads in SW forum?
My texture creation skillz are fairly bad, but I think, this i progress regardless.
I may have gone over the top a bit with the lines, though. :D
a/ methinks the SW 'ships' topic
b/ Might want to decrease to opacity of those lines a teeny bit, or add a bit of shading to darken the plates around them. Looks neat sofar, though.
In case anyone cares or it's of use, I always start off by dividing the template into coloured sections, then apply shading to each section (trying to mimic shadowing as it would be on the model), then about 30-40% opacity black lines for plating, then go round them with a reduced opacity white line (trying to make it look like recessed seams), then start applying light shading to the actual plater ares.
Takes a while to get to grips with the various shadoiwuing effects, though... I tend to use multiple opacitys and types of 'burn' for it, and try and use small brushheads for the fine 'streaks'.
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Originally posted by aldo_14
a/ methinks the SW 'ships' topic
b/ Might want to decrease to opacity of those lines a teeny bit, or add a bit of shading to darken the plates around them. Looks neat sofar, though.
In case anyone cares or it's of use, I always start off by dividing the template into coloured sections, then apply shading to each section (trying to mimic shadowing as it would be on the model), then about 30-40% opacity black lines for plating, then go round them with a reduced opacity white line (trying to make it look like recessed seams), then start applying light shading to the actual plater ares.
Takes a while to get to grips with the various shadoiwuing effects, though... I tend to use multiple opacitys and types of 'burn' for it, and try and use small brushheads for the fine 'streaks'.
Will look into this. :nod:
Originally posted by Sandwich
Then give it to Venom, he can deal with OTT stuff. :p
:lol: :lol: :lol:
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Originally posted by Sandwich
Then give it to Venom, he can deal with OTT stuff. :p
one can dream :p
I'll make my own ship, and that'll be about all for now ( I already know how it'll look like, this time I can go crazy mwhahahaha! )
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Originally posted by venom2506
( I already know how it'll look like, this time I can go crazy mwhahahaha! )
Hoo-boy! I can't wait to see what interesting new designs the mind of a completely-polycount-unrestrained Frenchman can come up with! :p :lol:
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Originally posted by Sandwich
Hoo-boy! I can't wait to see what interesting new designs the mind of a completely-polycount-unrestrained Frenchman can come up with! :p :lol:
:D
if it turns out the way I want, you shouldn't be disapointed :)
look forward to something big and nasty ^_^
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Originally posted by venom2506
:D
if it turns out the way I want, you shouldn't be disapointed :)
look forward to something big and nasty ^_^
big and nasty...big and nasty... :shaking: :nervous: I don't wanna know...
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i finally reinstalled truespace after formatting, and i played some hours with it just to see if i remember how to model:)
well i had only a vague idea about wh i wanted to obtain, btw this is what came out...i call it "steelviper":
bottom
(http://digilander.libero.it/AlessandroFerrarese/img/steelviper5.jpg)
its about 230 polys (420 if triangulized w/o cleaning it) so i have a lot of rooms for improovements, i'm working now on the wings:)
problem is instead when i will texture it, eh!:)
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I'm making a really big armored ship...a sloth ship with two big defensive shield (that are destroyable sub-objects ;7)
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althought minor changes it looks better, i think, much more agressive:)
i have just a couple of doubts but its almost done i think, 495 polys triangulized
(http://digilander.libero.it/AlessandroFerrarese/img/steelviper6.jpg)
(http://digilander.libero.it/AlessandroFerrarese/img/steelviper7.jpg)
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I'll help, maybe making levels, but I can't model. I am working on an Apollyon bomber though. It is the bomber seen in the fs1 intro. Just a neat reskin.
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I can work out some music peases (Unreal Tournament Like Music) fot his mod :p
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Might give me a good excuse to finish my Silverfox fighter. :nod:
(http://www.3dap.com/hlp/staff/maeglamor/silverfox.jpg)
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I have seen all the ships and everithing I think we have to make the team to make this mod a reallity, HLP Plz host this project
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Maybe I can use a GTF Mustang Alpha with a Shotgun, Phalanx ballistic machine gun, and some Belial and raynor missiles.
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so wend are we going to start this mod formaly
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Not that I hav anything to say in it.... but now is as good a time as ever.
Would it be possible to take some of the Descent 3 levels and convert them to .cob, then somehow texture them, and get them in the game?
I seem to recall somebody did this with the D3 level editor, they made a ship, and got it converted to a .cob. It had to be retextured, but they said it worked.
Maybe we can make some not complicated levels with this?
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It wasn't a ship, it was a nav buoy. :) And it required converting it through 3 or 4 formats including 3ds before I got a cob. At that, it was off center, untextured, and didn't turn out the way I'd wanted anyways due to the limitations of the original editor. Trying to use D3Edit to do levels and convert them to FS2 POFs would be more work then making levels in a 3D modeller. Also, D3 levels (the underground/structure parts) are normally designed around the assumption that the player will always be in the level. (In other words, you'd have to make sure the players could not leave the level, the faces are 1 sided facing inwards.)
As for the terrain, simply put that's not really possible.
1. The terrain has a huge number of polys, 65279 if the info I collected when I was working on D3 levels is accurate.
2. The terrain is actually made from a targa file. (Think of it as a really big level you apply a small file to as a bump map.)
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displace map.
I think it's strange, tho, coz this targa would have to be hella huge if you don't want a "stair" effect.
edit: on second thought, nope, I guess smart interpolation would be enough to deal with it.
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Well, maybe we can just make a few Karnak style ships. Ones that you can fly into. Only problem with the Karnak was its see through stuff.
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Ok, I was wrong. They're 256x256 grayscale PCX files. (Targa files are what D3 saves when you do a screen shot.) And how much of a "stair step" effect you get depends on how big a difference there is between the color values of adjacent pixels, it can get really bad if there's a big enough jump. :)
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probably the best way to start is to collect the high quality fighters that can be recycled from other mods, complete the shipset with new stuff, and concentrate in ship balancing, interface, level editing etc
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well this is and idea of a logo , i'm not a great arstist
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Pretty good.
I'll have to wait to play until the UW comes out. Then I can use my Mustang Alpha. I don't want it released until the main stuff.
Can we use fighter beams and flak? Hpw about shotguns or flamethrowers?:D
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the bean can be like the BGF of quake 3 and the flakc like the flack cannon of ut, i tink it sounds great
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What about artillary? It has a severely damaging and large explosion that is more damaging than hitting your target. That way, the player is forced to fire at walls, asreroids, or derelicts next to his target an getting him(or her) caught in the blast.
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just a single question, who`s actually working on FST2003 right now??? and if anyone is, who`s leading the project?
err, those where two questions, a well.
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It was aldo's idea, I thought he would lead it.
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Originally posted by Hades
It was aldo's idea, I thought he would lead it.
Nope... I already stated I don't have the time to lead this size of project alongside my other commitments. I had hoped I could devote the time to make a few things for it, but there's no way I could be lead anything at the moment.
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i volunteer to do help around with managing a bit. just one problem, look at my sig and you'll understand. and avove that i'm a little busy with school and such. but i'll be glad to help around. and i'm in GMT+1 so communication is gonna be a problem to.
anyway, i would help anyway i can.
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I just wabt to be a meber of the team, but I have no time to lead this kind of project
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Well, I'm grounded from my computer except on weekends and Fridays, so I will have limited time to work on something.
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i think we all have a lot to do and not enough time to do it:)
for the moment i think we should just contribute with what we can do, when things will start growing a little we will then discuss about leading and organization
this shouldn't be much a problem for the moment, just take in mind the general guidelines and the objectives aldo pointed out
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I think someone shoud create a Web opage hosted here, and a forum for FSt2003, and we shoud start working on thins for it, after a whire we will end up with a good libarey of stuff, and with out notner the project will have a leader and a team,
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As soon as I'm finished with my Apollyon bomber I'll glady donate it. It should have new interface, and maybe some new weapons.
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I don't think we can just have people chucking ni whatever they've done... the stuff should be specially designed for this, because it is different in scope to any other FS2 project... almost Descent-ish in some ways.
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I know, I know, it was just and Idea, at least with a Web Page (WP) it will be more like formal, Aldo why don't you get the lead of this project, I allready got some Unreal Tournament tracks allmos ready for this mod, I thing using the Freespace 2 open souce code we can make this FST a great mod, but I think we shoud ude nre ships and old ships too, like tha pollo, de hercs Mark II and some descent ships too
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Originally posted by aldo_14
I don't think we can just have people chucking ni whatever they've done... the stuff should be specially designed for this, because it is different in scope to any other FS2 project... almost Descent-ish in some ways.
[color=00ff66]I think it would be prudent to set up some kind of points based system, I think you suggested it earlier in the thread. Pick the controlled attributes i.e.
Speed
manuverability
no. of weapon points (primary and secondary)
Loadout (perhaps it might be easier to restrict everyone to one kind of primary and secondary, might make it less fun though)
Afterburner duration + speed
etc...
then give each attribute an average value, assign points to each increase (e.g. an increase in craft speed of 10 costs 1 point, 2 points for extra weapon mounts above two...).
Everyone gets a fixed number of points to play with so each ship balances out.
Oh it might be a good idea to limit the ship size to a certain minimum to avoid having a shootout between death dealing tennis ball sized ships. [/color]
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Originally posted by 15thRampage
I know, I know, it was just and Idea, at least with a Web Page (WP) it will be more like formal, Aldo why don't you get the lead of this project,
Because I have coursework to do for uni justnow, and even more after the Xmas break.
Originally posted by Maeglamor
[color=00ff66]I think it would be prudent to set up some kind of points based system, I think you suggested it earlier in the thread. Pick the controlled attributes i.e.
{snip}
[/color]
I wrote something to do with this somewhere.... there should be a link buried in this thread.
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looking for this?
.http://www.3dap.com/hlp/hosted/reciprocity/aldostuff/stuff.htm (http://www.3dap.com/hlp/hosted/reciprocity/aldostuff/stuff.htm)
i found it in the squadwar forum, fst2003 arena idea's or something.
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Those aldo's Ideas sounds really good, the level Idea are interesting, and the stup ballance too
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a nice kind of deatmatch may be setted with only tag missles as player weapons and gun platforms all over the battleground:)
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Or instead of TAG missiles, how about TAG primaries? I have some "Paintball" guns I'd glady contribute.
EDIT: Is there any way those calculations could be made more simple? I'm only taking Pre-Algebra, so they make sense, but I'm not sure if I'm doing them correctly. Sorry if I sound dumb, I haven't finished middle school yet, so I'm not failing or anything.:)
EDIT2: I figured most of it out. I did a reskin of an Apollo. Nice heavy assault fighter. Has 16 primary firing points, 1000 shield and 500 hull hit points. Makes a 98.7 on the scale. Prometheus (fs1 version) makes somewhere in the 80's. Nice weapon, on two gun banks of 8 firing points, I can destroy even an Ursa in a few hits using a Subach HL-7.
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i hate to post one liners but he, what else
porgress report available???
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Progress Report
Ideas 10000%
Model 1%
Story 0%
Music %
overall 1%
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great ideas, now i've got to figure out what's wrong with my 3ds
man this is going to be really interesting. all the different...MAN this is going to be....Excellent. MUHAHAHAHA
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we need to asemble a team for this mod, any interested raice you hand
*rasing Hand* I'm interested
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*raising hand*
*realises modding experience required*
*loweres hand*
(see my sig)
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OKay I got lost reading through all the posts. Here's what I was wondering, has anyone ever considered a modded league type setting where factions fight for control of planets and star systems?
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Originally posted by Hades
Or instead of TAG missiles, how about TAG primaries? I have some "Paintball" guns I'd glady contribute.
EDIT: Is there any way those calculations could be made more simple? I'm only taking Pre-Algebra, so they make sense, but I'm not sure if I'm doing them correctly. Sorry if I sound dumb, I haven't finished middle school yet, so I'm not failing or anything.:)
That means your about the same age as me.
:cool:
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For weapons options I'd donate the Photons and Quantoms I converted ;) Right now they are primaries so they don't track.
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Originally posted by Hades
EDIT: Is there any way those calculations could be made more simple? I'm only taking Pre-Algebra, so they make sense, but I'm not sure if I'm doing them correctly. Sorry if I sound dumb, I haven't finished middle school yet, so I'm not failing or anything.:)
Those don't really require a high understanding of math, if I'm seeing it right all you have to do is insert numerical values (like where it says "overall = 0.3(laserVal)+0.2(misVal)+0.1(maxWepEnergy)+0.15(poweroutput)+0.25 (turrets)" you would insert the value of the "laserVal", "misVal" etc. and multiply it with the coefficients [0.3 and 0.2 respectively]) which are found on the left side or in many cases you decide using guidelines on the left side. In the end the overall value has to be less than a certain number to be balanced.
Was that coherent or am I being confusing?
On the side: wouldn't this be easier with Descnet style movements? Considering it's battle within constrained area (unless we're not doing indoor arenas) and Descent stuff shouldn't be too hard to implement (it's in the code as a cheat can activate it). Or is the focus to arena-battle specifically with FS physics?...
Edit: BTW, Hades you're around my age too :p so coolbies :yes:
Edit2: Damn this is a pretty old thread, sorry for reviving it
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don't be,it's a great idea, and i think we all wish someone had the time to complete this.
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I have loads of time on my hands, I could help out. We could set it up similiar to Squadwar.
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Anyone want to have me on the team?;)
You all know what i can do.
Weapons and effects
Backgrounds
Animations and stills
Missions
Interface
and the list go's on.
I have a week free next week so you want to use my skillz then do it now;)
Darkage.
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Woo... old topic!
anyways, I was thinking that - with the SCP work on the multiplayer code - could /should we consider reviving this idea?
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I'd just go and create my Valkyrie LSD-42. :D
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Have fun.
/KT Flightsim conn = Death