Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: CODEDOG ND on October 15, 2002, 11:28:16 am
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I was thinking. Do you think there could be beam cannons on vessels before the Terran-Vasudan War? I just wanted to know what you people think. I'm working on some ships that date before the war and wondered if it would be possible, since laser battles on capital ships is long and boring.
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Very low power ones... there'd have to be a good reason to have them retired in favour of FS era capship weapons....
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No, unless you want to have an alternate time line no. There were n beams during the T-V war. If there were don't you think they'd use 'm? At least against the shivans...
So my awnser is simple... NO :p
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There are other ways caps can be dangerous. First of all, the Orion wasn't probably even designed before the T-V war. So the Fenris was a powerful weapon back then.
Missiles. Can. Be. Devastating. Weapons.
Think of Trebuchet launching Fenrises. They make short work of other Fenrises. And not boring.
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No. There would be no excuse for loosing or not using that tech if it already existed.
But you could argue that big ships hulls might not be as strong making regular pulse fire more effective.
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hmm...what if they could only go on heavy ships, and be low powered, maybe fire once every two or three minutes and take maybe 1 or 2% hull off?
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But why wouldnt it be used in FS1?
Theres no way round it, if you have beem it wont make sense.
I suggest you come up with a new idea for an old weapon that got phased out because it was unreliable. And make it really spectacular to make up for lack of beams.
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Make rapid lasers that fire bolts in quick succession of eachother and can devastate the hull of another cap easily.
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I'll see what I can come up with. I have yet to figure out how to make the lasers fire in bursts. The new lasers that come with it aren't terran turrets though. :) But you should see the terran turret. :) I'll still mess with some beam effects as well see if i can get them to balance with the lasers.
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Originally posted by Tiara
Make rapid lasers that fire bolts in quick succession of eachother and can devastate the hull of another cap easily.
Been there, done that.
See siggy.
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V
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lmao u missed spelled my name in the readme! :eek:
At least I wasnt the only one whole made an ion cannon off that idea. You put a shockwave on it?
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You might want to talk with Hades, codedog.
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Originally posted by CODEDOG ND
I was thinking.
:eek2:
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*Ahem*
"Torpedos and/or Missiles"
Why they got phased out, long reload times, occasionally get stuck in the tube(not a good thing to be around when that happens), semi-short range(5-6 klicks), and can be shot down by fighters(but the shockwave can easily kill any fighters in a 1-2 klick area). So they were replaced with more laser turrets on the capships, and more fighters in the hanger bays.
Make sense?
Cor
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Originally posted by Corhellion
*Ahem*
"Torpedos and/or Missiles"
Why they got phased out, long reload times, occasionally get stuck in the tube(not a good thing to be around when that happens), semi-short range(5-6 klicks), and can be shot down by fighters(but the shockwave can easily kill any fighters in a 1-2 klick area). So they were replaced with more laser turrets on the capships, and more fighters in the hanger bays.
Make sense?
Cor
:yes:
I'm all in favour of more missile based weapons for this project. It only makes sense, since even today powerful missile based weapons technology exists, whereas to make an actually effective laser weapon is much harder. By FS the Terrans and Vasudans had upgraded to laser-based technology as the primary means of waging war, because one can run out of ammo with missiles, and missiles had all the problems Corhellion mentions.
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Just make sure they're equal or less powerful than the Terran Huge Turrets.
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Originally posted by GalacticEmperor
Just make sure they're equal or less powerful than the Terran Huge Turrets.
:rolleyes: Terrant (Huge) Turrets sucks. FS1 cap ship armament is pretty poor in my opinion.
In TBP Release 2 you'll see what is a real armament of a warship. ;7
Yeah, no beams in T-V war is my opinion. They didn't have them during FS1.
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question:
Why would you even think about putting beams on pre FS1 ships if they weren't even invented? i think what you mean is Big lasers that may look lik beams, but are not.
You could try it with the classical red laser cutting beam (huge) and make it do some damage (4 - 6%) per volley but it fires once every 4 min or it overheats and actually does damage or explodes if used too frequently.
I am acctualy in favor of big ass cruise missles (ala todays destroyers; Persian Gulf; Tomahawks) They could launch out of the bay verticle then tilt towards the target. Or maybe a different version of the Inferno for fighter suppression (may not apply for past) but i always thought caps should have those, and have them detonate on proximity. :drevil:
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[glow=red]Spoiler Alert[/glow]
Highlight to read, be warned that it does contain spoilers
To decrease shear bordom of long laser duels between capital ships in Into the Night: Exposition, giant laser beams will be used by capital ships in ship to ship naval warfare. These beams will be low power by FS1 and FS2 standards, but will still be more than effective in Exposition as ships will be weaker.
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*had no prior knowledge*
i swear ! :)
see, that is a good idea.. By chance do they have a continuity thing (like they have reactor meltdowns and the ship becomes disabled or something to that effect to symbolize why they were replaced) or are they strictly gameplay?
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Well, they didnt say they did have beam weapons or had had them in the past.
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I personally would like to see some large ship-to-ship missiles here, and these sound more feasible too story-wise. (you could say that these fell out of usage later on due to the high costs per missile since the GTA and PVN were heavily strained on resources by the time FS1 started) It may be a good idea to make a new model for these as they would be much larger than the standard fighter missiles and bombs.
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We have upgraded weapons that work much better on the project. I also want to propose Torpedeos, much like WC, for the earlier ships (Pre-Orion ships).
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I have a question, does it even matter if they didn't have them in T-V war? Put them in, so it's not accurate with the main story line, so? Is it a good story, good missions? Then who cares? Put them in if you want to.
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remember, it's all about content! ;)
to me, a certain level of realisticness (or canonness) makes it funner to play. But thats just me, so :ha:
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Originally posted by CODEDOG ND
Well, they didnt say they did have beam weapons or had had them in the past.
By the same token, it was never stated that they _DIDN'T_ have beam weaponry before the Great War. Creative lisence its called.
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Why they got phased out, long reload times, occasionally get stuck in the tube(not a good thing to be around when that happens), semi-short range(5-6 klicks), and can be shot down by fighters(but the shockwave can easily kill any fighters in a 1-2 klick area). So they were replaced with more laser turrets on the capships, and more fighters in the hanger bays.
Long reload times? ahem... check the turret on the Fenris.
occasionally get stuck in the tube - I'm sure they figured a solution to that by the 24th century
semi-short range - yes, and plasma cannon turrets (they're not lasers) are ooooh so longer ranged
getting shot down by fighters - so cyclops' . so why do they still use them?
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Originally posted by LtNarol
By the same token, it was never stated that they _DIDN'T_ have beam weaponry before the Great War.
Yeah, it was. During a FreeSpace 2 mission (can't remember which one, most likely the one with the Pegasus test) a female pilot says something like "I can't believe we won the Great War, by that time we didn't even have shields or beam weapons."
And if it's not about having a consistent story, then why even make it in the FreeSpace universe, with Vasudans and Terrans? Just use the same ships with a whole new story, at least that way it won't be contradicting anything.
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that said nothing of beams _before_ the Great War, just that they didn't have them _in_ the Great War ;).
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The T-V War Project WILL NOT HAVE BEAMS!!! EVER!
That's my final answer!
As for you guys, do what you want, but rember its not true to canon.
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Beams of any sort before Freespace2?
DEFINATELY A BAD IDEA.
REALLY BAD.
DAVID HASSELHOFF BAD.
SURVIVOR BAD.
Just say no to anachronistic beam weaponry.
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Originally posted by LtNarol
that said nothing of beams _before_ the Great War, just that they didn't have them _in_ the Great War ;).
But that's a matter of interpretation. She also talked about shields, so was she just referring to the time during the Great War? I don't think so, honestly.
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Play Exposition and then Shadows when they come out, you'll see why the beams from Exposition wouldn't carry over past its short-lived age. I'll give you a hint: Subachs are more effective against armor.
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Beams = no. Bas idea for pre FS2.
If you insist on it, make them like cutting lasers.. thin, weak and ineffective. Once the GTA develops the ability to safely store and release large energy bursts, these take over as the main weaponry.
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I agree with Aldo (and most everyone else); Beams for a pre-FS2 game are a BAD idea.
It's implicitly stated in FS2 (maybe in the tech database?) that the GTA and the PVN didn't even concieve of beam weaponry until the SD Lucifer (with its flux/beam cannons) was encountered in 2335. It took the GTVA several more years to get the design of beam cannons right. In fact, when beam cannons were first installed on some of the older Vasudan Typhon destroyers, they caused engine overloads and power failures on these ships. New ship classes (like the Sobek corvette and the Mentu cruiser) had to be designed just to be able to use these new beam weapons without malfunctioning or endangering the ships.
In light of that, making any sort of beam weaponry before the GTVA managed to design them in the years leading up to FS2 would be going COMPLETELY against FS canon.
And LtNarol, as for your comment that "that said nothing of beams _before_ the Great War, just that they didn't have them _in_ the Great War," you have to remember that the T-V War (which led directly into the Great War) lasted for 14 years. Before that time when the Terrans encountered the Vasudans at the start of the T-V War, the Terrans hadn't even encountered ANY space-faring life and would have had no need to mount weapons on their ships. Thus, the only time the Terrans could have downgraded their weapons would have been DURING the T-V War, which makes no sense. What kind of military downgrades its weapons during wartime? That's suicidal and completely against all logic and common sense.
Ummm, beam cannons before FS2 are bad, so don't put beam cannons in a pre-FS2 campaign, mmmkay?
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How about if you made a red AAAf beam with a long and messy chargeup time and 0 damage, and then had a specific mission that involved keeping Vasudans away from a test site of a new highly experimental 'Laser beam Weapon' (not a photon beam weapon - and yes I know the relationship between photons and lasers - work with me here ;D). Anyway, you fend off a few Anubises or whatever, and then the test fire happens. Bang, you fire this laser at, say an asteroid, which doesn't blow up, but the ship that fired at it does, rteactor overload or whatever. Your debriefing talks about how "We lost over a dozen of the GTAs top military research minds" and "GTA Command has ordered the laser beam weaponry research halted indefinitely die to it's inherent instability and danger". Boom - you have beam fire (only one, but hey, it exists :p) and a logical explaination for why it could exist. Not they way you may have wanted it, but it's just a suggestion. Could use it if you run out of mission ideas.
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*misses the way that FS1 cap-weapons used to glide towards you silently then fshoomf as they hit/went-by*
FS2 cap-weapons were kinda fast, in both firing rate and weapon-speed. Aaaanyway......
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I disagree. I think that to make a campaign based in the FreeSpace Universe, you should make it as true to the story and timeline as possible.
Beam weapons were never developed and used until FreeSpace 2. So, if you are going to make a campaign based on the Terran-Vasudan War, you should not include beam weapons in there.
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Originally posted by NeoHunter
I disagree. I think that to make a campaign based in the FreeSpace Universe, you should make it as true to the story and timeline as possible.
Beam weapons were never developed and used until FreeSpace 2. So, if you are going to make a campaign based on the Terran-Vasudan War, you should not include beam weapons in there.
:nod:
Come on, this is sci-fi. People hate inconsistancy. I consider myself a moderate in that sense, I dont know why people say the FS2 intro and stuff is so inconsistant and dont care but...
on beams:
Pre the Great War Vasudens and Terrians never had them. Full stop.
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Cutting lasers are exactly what will be used in Exposition, not the particle or flux beams of FS1 and FS2.
Why you ask? Because capital ships firing missiles and bombs doesn't show up very much in the FS2 engine, not unless you make them as big as fighters and as slow as fighters; lasers are just boring; and beams just look cool. They will be more powerful than your fighter mounted lasers, but not powerful to the point where they actually kill things as fast as the beams of FS2.
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Originally posted by LtNarol
Cutting lasers are exactly what will be used in Exposition, not the particle or flux beams of FS1 and FS2.
Why you ask? Because capital ships firing missiles and bombs doesn't show up very much in the FS2 engine, not unless you make them as big as fighters and as slow as fighters; lasers are just boring; and beams just look cool. They will be more powerful than your fighter mounted lasers, but not powerful to the point where they actually kill things as fast as the beams of FS2.
if you use the FS2 source you can do some pretty cool stuff. Such as animated lasers (using models), or bombs (again animated) etc. etc.
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Originally posted by LtNarol
Cutting lasers are exactly what will be used in Exposition, not the particle or flux beams of FS1 and FS2.
Cutting lasers? For what? For the Vasudans to engrave some Vasudan on the hulls of the Terran ships???:confused:
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well my first guess would be to cut through the other ship.
but that's just me
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If you say cut through ships, then this cutting laser is no different from beam weapons!
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except that it isnt a beam by the FS2 definition in that it isnt accelerating particles but only focusses light into a beam and directs it at a target. Would you rather sit there for half an hour trying to pummel a destroyer with your lasers and missiles? Or even better: watch as a smaller cruiser gets pummelled trying to take down the destoyer with its lasers over the course of half an hour?
As for using the source code, doing so loses PXO compatablitiy, as well as the stability of the current engine.
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Cap ship battles will be much quicker in the T-V War Project, so things like the final mission of ST don't happen. It should be cool to see. And best of all, NO BEAMS!!!!
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I wish you had made this thread a poll. :lol:
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actualy if you have realy big (1500 hit points) fast pulse weapons (espesaly if they have trails) it recreates a lot of the game play features that beams have
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But still, why would tech go back to less fast?
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Originally posted by Bobboau
actualy if you have realy big (1500 hit points) fast pulse weapons (espesaly if they have trails) it recreates a lot of the game play features that beams have
But real beam effects still look cooler :D
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But look at the FreeSpace Universe and timeline. In FreeSpace 1, there was NO beram weapons or laser beams or what so ever. Just plain old laser cannons and misslies.
You want to know how they destroyed capital shps back then? Torpedoes. Bombers full of torpedoes. End of story.
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Originally posted by NeoHunter
But look at the FreeSpace Universe and timeline. In FreeSpace 1, there was NO beram weapons or laser beams or what so ever. Just plain old laser cannons and misslies.
You want to know how they destroyed capital shps back then? Torpedoes. Bombers full of torpedoes. End of story.
In the timeset of Exposition, warheads that heavy will not be available to the player (as he is flying superiority); only bombers will have that kind of firepower, and even then they will be limited in the number of warheads and there will be no support ships. Laser beams that are too weak for use against the heavier war machines of FS1 are a feasible and playable option; whereas most others are not as good for gameplay purposes or balancing.