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Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => The Modding Workshop => Topic started by: Galemp on October 17, 2002, 06:37:14 pm

Title: New Vasudan science cruiser
Post by: Galemp on October 17, 2002, 06:37:14 pm
I've had this idea in my head for months, and now that I know how to use control points, I can build it!

(http://www.3dap.com/hlp/hosted/fsport/working/vasci.jpg)

Basically, it's a Vasudan science cruiser, similar to the GTSc Faustis. However, while the Faustis was a civilian craft modified for military use, this cruiser is a dedicated military ship and can be adapted to a wide range of roles, including research and AWACs support.

In one popular configuration, it can be used as a dedicaed electronic warfare platform, replacing laser turrets with Leech/Lamprey, Disruptor, and Flail/Morning Star guns, and arming its missile turrets with EMP, Stiletto, and TAG missiles. These weapons are often left behind by pilots who seek to rack up the most kills; mounting them on this cruiser weakens and identifies targets so friendly craft can destroy them with ease.

This is the basic mesh, and I want the circular array on top to rotate of course. It will have ten turrets (6 primary, 4 secondary) and be relatively fast. Texturing will be similar to the Mentu, Bes, and Setekh.

What do you think?
Title: New Vasudan science cruiser
Post by: Knight Templar on October 17, 2002, 07:17:24 pm
meh.




A-1 SUPAR!! Spectacular!! Sick Idea!! Somone Texture it for him!! :doubt:


Edit: deffinitly reminds mE of the Demon
Title: New Vasudan science cruiser
Post by: untouchable on October 17, 2002, 07:20:24 pm
I like the concept... but in my opinion, it needs a lot more detail. :nod:
Title: New Vasudan science cruiser
Post by: Su-tehp on October 17, 2002, 07:32:55 pm
This is a great concept, but don't call it a science cruiser. If it's primarily an AWACS vessel, it should be designated as an AWACS.

I am interested in seeing this mod, as it would work nicely with a Wild Weasel-type squadron. For those of you not in the know, a Wild Weasel squad has the primary purpose of neutralizing enemy anti-fighter defenses. In FS2, a WW squad basically makes surgical strikes against turrets on cap ships and installations to strip them of their defenses.

*engage pimp mode*

DatDB will feature several missions where you fly for a WW squad! Above weapons (Lampreys, TAGs, etc.) and similar mods will be used!

*disengage pimp mode*


I'm not sure that making one ship with two completely different purposes is a good idea. Kinda like, it's better to have several ships that do one task very well, rather than have a smaller number of ships that are jacks-of-all-trades but masters of none. A Vasudan science cruiser is a good idea, but I think you should make it a separate mod.

As for this baby, from the top view, the wings look too "square" for a vasudan ship, I think. Maybe I'll change my mind once it's textured, but just watch out for that.

EDIT: KT might be right; this DOES look a little too much like the SD Demon...maybe flattening the wings might be in order?
Title: New Vasudan science cruiser
Post by: CP5670 on October 17, 2002, 08:48:21 pm
Well, the Vasudans are lacking a science cruiser, so this should fit the role nicely. I look forward to seeing the textured version. :)
Title: New Vasudan science cruiser
Post by: Goober5000 on October 17, 2002, 09:05:14 pm
Hmm... it DOES look a bit much like the Demon.  Might need a bit of fiddling.

But a big :yes: on the model.  Have you reserved it for a specific campaign or time period?  Because I'm sure Hades would love to have it for the T-V war - we've got almost no Vasudan ships.
Title: New Vasudan science cruiser
Post by: Bobboau on October 17, 2002, 09:20:50 pm
put the rotatimatron under it
Title: New Vasudan science cruiser
Post by: CP5670 on October 17, 2002, 09:29:19 pm
Quote
rotatimatron


:wtf:
Title: New Vasudan science cruiser
Post by: Goober5000 on October 17, 2002, 09:34:18 pm
The rotating thingy.  Use your imagination. :p

Now THAT's a good idea.  It would look cool, plus it would provide a use for those overhanging Demon-esque arms. :yes: Make the nose a little less Shivan, smooth and curve the lines, and you've got a great Vasudan ship. :yes:
Title: New Vasudan science cruiser
Post by: Knight Templar on October 17, 2002, 09:34:24 pm
OMG !!

Bobboau is turning into George Bush!


Straegeism ....


New-Key-Ler ...

:lol: :lol:
Title: New Vasudan science cruiser
Post by: Su-tehp on October 17, 2002, 09:37:52 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Bobboau
put the rotatimatron under it


Bobboau, PLEASE tell me you're kidding!

Keep it on top, it'll look better that way. Plus it's more realistic because line of sight will be uninhibited if it's kept on top. Put it on the bottom and the wings will get in the way and put gaps in the detection screen.
Title: New Vasudan science cruiser
Post by: Knight Templar on October 17, 2002, 09:41:47 pm
Meh so the rotamatatorlite spins in the way.. you could justs have missle launchers on the wings that could cover most of the arc, if not some.

Its a science ship after all.. it is allowed to have some blind spots, i think. .. it needs to be a lil more Vasudan and less Shivan Demon -  Class though.. i keep expecting to hear about the LReds that will be on front.

EDIT: and the way the "Demon" head comes down.. it leaves a little "pocket" if you will under the ship, which is a pain in the ass because it would be un defended and if you put guns in there, their  LOS is severly restricted.. mostly only to defending the pocket, which is tactically unsound. :p
Title: New Vasudan science cruiser
Post by: Goober5000 on October 17, 2002, 09:57:25 pm
It doesn't have to scan everywhere.  It'll just have very good scanning ability in one direction. :p

That goes along with what we've seen of the Vasudans before - they do things a little bit strangely.  For instance, the Setekh is not as good militarily as the Charybdis but has a greater scanning range, according to FS2 tech.  The Mekhu HL-7 is another example.  And the Terrans didn't much like the Edjo sentry gun, did they? :D
Title: New Vasudan science cruiser
Post by: Su-tehp on October 17, 2002, 10:23:39 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Knight Templar
Meh so the rotamatatorlite spins in the way.. you could justs have missle launchers on the wings that could cover most of the arc, if not some.

Its a science ship after all. It is allowed to have some blind spots, i think....


Quote
Originally posted by Goober5000
It doesn't have to scan everywhere.  It'll just have very good scanning ability in one direction. :p

That goes along with what we've seen of the Vasudans before - they do thinks a little bit strangely....


If it has blind spots then you might as well get rid of the whole rotating scanner. If if it rotates and cant scan in at least two directions, then why have it at all? AWACS are supposed to scan in all directions; thats what detecting the enemy is all about. If you have a deliberate blind spot in your scanning ability, then you're just ASKING the enemy to hit you from that blind spot. How much military sense does that make?

And Goober, your analogy about the Mekhu gun and the Edjo sentry gun are incorrect. The problem the Terrans had with the Setekh wasn't that its scanning ability was flawed, it was that the Setekh was an unnecessarily fragile ship. It had less armor and could be shot down more easily, but it scanned just as well as the Charybdis.

And KT, is this ship a science cruiser or an AWACS? If it's a science cruiser, get rid of the rotating scanner entirely because it's superfluous and unnecessary. If it's an AWACS, then don't compromise the mod with such an obvious design flaw by putting the scanner on the bottom when scanning from the top makes more sense.

Go one way or the other, but multitasking ships tend to do poorly if they have to perform a number of unrelated functions at once. Research is NOT related to AWACS duties. Thus, they should be done on separate ships.

In real life, do Air Force technicians stationed on AWACS planes do scientific research or do they scan for enemy planes so their buddies don't get shot down? Everyone here should know the answer to that...
Title: New Vasudan science cruiser
Post by: Knight Templar on October 17, 2002, 10:31:14 pm
ouch, i feel like i just got ***** slapped... :wink:

Quote
And KT, is this ship a science cruiser or an AWACS? If it's a science cruiser, get rid of the rotating scanner entirely because it's superfluous and unnecessary. If it's an AWACS, then don't compromise the mod with such an obvious design flaw by putting the scanner on the bottom when scanning from the top makes more sense.



heh this isn't my mod man, i was just tryin' to make sence of it. I think you are right, one or the other.. seeing as how the Vasuds already have their AWACS, they need a science ship.. with no  rotatlimatilda. Why is that on the Faustus anyways? Solar Power?  :doubt:  You could make a new Electronic Waring ship, just need a betta design.. perhaps i should try ;7
Title: New Vasudan science cruiser
Post by: Goober5000 on October 17, 2002, 10:51:38 pm
:nervous:

From FS2 tech:
Quote
The GVA Setekh is the Vasudan class of AWACS vessels, comparable to the Terran GTA Charybdis class. Setekhs are smaller, less heavily armored, and have half the turrets of Charybdis ships. Despite these shortcomings, the Vasudan navy insists upon deploying Setekhs in Vasudan battle groups, claiming the Vasudan versions are more appropriate for their fleets. Setekhs' crystalline detection arrays provide their fleets with doubled radar range within the nebular region. Every Vasudan battle group operating in this theatre has a wing of Setekhs attached to it.
So Setekhs aren't as well armored nor as well armed, but the Vasudans have their reasons nonetheless.  I just meant that sometimes Vasudans do things in peculiar ways, the reasons for which may not be readily apparent.

I think it's just fine if the rotatalatoraflimalagig goes on the bottom, between the arms.  Who says the scan field is compromised?  Maybe science cruisers can scan right through hulls, who knows.  Who says the ring has to be on the top?  The rules don't have to be followed all the time.  The Ravana isn't symmetrical, the Scorpion looks weird, the Aeolus has that funny two-engine arrangement, the Satis and the Chronos fly upside-down, and this science cruiser can have its scanning ring on the bottom. :)
Quote
In real life, do Air Force technicians stationed on AWACS planes do scientific research or do they scan for enemy planes so their buddies don't get shot down? Everyone here should know the answer to that...
Yup - they watch dumbfounded as Chinese fighter planes crash into them. :p
Title: New Vasudan science cruiser
Post by: mikhael on October 17, 2002, 11:03:34 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Su-tehp

Plus it's more realistic because line of sight will be uninhibited if it's kept on top. Put it on the bottom and the wings will get in the way and put gaps in the detection screen.


Please tell me you're kidding.

First, what good in a volume of 3d space to scan in a plane? Obviously an AWACS must scan a spherical volume. Put it on top, put it on bottom, the hull is still in the way in one direction or the other. Either it can scan through the hull or its worthless as an AWACS.

Besides. You're talking about realism in a space fighter sim? Lets talk about pulling inertial G-forces, beams and subspace, 'kay?

Put that Rotalotadingdong wherever it looks good. I like Bobbaou's suggestion.
Title: New Vasudan science cruiser
Post by: Knight Templar on October 17, 2002, 11:06:35 pm
How bout AWACS panels/hull plating?
Title: New Vasudan science cruiser
Post by: Galemp on October 17, 2002, 11:06:47 pm
I like having the ring up top! Gives it a 180 degree field of view. Look at the Charibdys, it has the array on top. And who cares if it's not entirely practacal? These are VASUDANS, they focus on aesthetics.
I designed this thing to be a kind of all-purpose technology ship. If it's a science cruiser, it should have large sensor arrays, right? The idea is that the internal components can be easily replaced depending on the mission. And yes, Wild Weasel was the term I was looking for.
The wings are bent down so it can have a wide firing arc for its turrets, to be positioned like so:
Code: [Select]

 \//    \\/
--||    ||--
 /\\    //\

That's the reactor and engine block under there. The wings protect it from broadside fire. There will be a couple turrets on the underside to fend off fighters.

You're right, it DOES look like a Demon. I was trying to make the head look like a Typhon; should I try something else?
Title: New Vasudan science cruiser
Post by: Knight Templar on October 17, 2002, 11:08:43 pm
I'm all for racial diversity, try it!
Title: New Vasudan science cruiser
Post by: Goober5000 on October 17, 2002, 11:30:36 pm
Quote
Originally posted by GalacticEmperor
I like having the ring up top! Gives it a 180 degree field of view. Look at the Charibdys, it has the array on top.
That's the thing, though - the Charybdis has already done the ring on top.  Do something different!  I think those arms are just begging to hug a rotataloromabob.  Think of it this way - it's a nice compact design (everything fits neatly together), and the arms offer a great deal of protection - both by offering turret defensive capabilities and by preventing enemies from getting a good line of fire at the sensitive equipment.
Quote
And who cares if it's not entirely practacal? These are VASUDANS, they focus on aesthetics.
I think putting it in the bottom works aesthetically too.

Speaking of the ringamathing, you may want to make it a little less uniform, a little more curvy.  Currently it looks like a helicopter blade with a circle around it.
Quote
You're right, it DOES look like a Demon. I was trying to make the head look like a Typhon; should I try something else?
I think so, but I'm not sure exactly what.  Maybe cut part of the head off - or else make the head bulgier.  Or - IDEA - cut the head off entirely and put something down the front like a broad elephant trunk! :D
Title: New Vasudan science cruiser
Post by: Knight Templar on October 17, 2002, 11:57:48 pm
I think it would be cool if it looked kinda like that one Vasudan Destroyer that was floating around with the Fin going up.. cept the fin would come form the hull, go out, then come back in slightly, then cross to make a T and you could have some systems or Missle launchers on the Horizontal part of the "T".

That or you could make it like a fish like we talked about. :D Uber Vasudan and Uber cool :nod:
Title: New Vasudan science cruiser
Post by: Su-tehp on October 18, 2002, 12:21:56 am
Mikhael, you're right. AWACS do need to scan in 3D. It olny occurred to me that an AWACS scan would be in two dimensions because the radar screens Air Force uses today are 2D...

I guess I'm too much like Khan in Star Trek II. I keep thinking in two dimensions when I should be thinking in three.:nervous:

GE, I really like the idea of a Wild Weasel vessel, but I don't think it should be called a science cruiser. Maybe classify it as a gunboat? I don't want to say frigate, because in DatDB, I designated Aldo's warcruiser mods as frigates...

Does anyone know if real life AWACS planes are involved in Wild Weasel duties? I'd like to find out. GE, do know the answer to this question?

Also, what names of new ship classes for FS can we come up with and what size would they be? I want to start brainstorming so we can figure out how to classify this ship. Should we classify this new mod as a brand new AWACS or as something else? I don't like the idea of classifying it as a science cruiser because science cruisers are originally civilian vessels (that can be drafted into military service, true, but they're still primarily civilian) and AWACS are always military....

Quote
Yup - they watch dumbfounded as Chinese fighter planes crash into them.


Dude, Goober, that is low! :lol: I don't think they were dumbfounded, though, they were probably too busy trying to land the plane safely to be dumbfounded at the time of the colliosion.

The Chinese fighter pilot, on the other hand, he was probably extremely dumbfounded when he realized that the Chinese Communist Party was incapable of saving him from his plane crashing into the ocean...

[translated from Chinese]: Agggh! I'm so blatantly filled with testosterone, I actually thought I could ram a bigger plane than mine at 900 knots and not get a scratch on me! Well, I'm losing altitude at an alarming rate, but that's alright. The Worker's Paradise that is Mother China won't let me die. Marx won't let me die. The butchers of Tiannanman Square who are my country's leaders won't let me die. I've got nothing to worry abo--"

*sound of huge explosion and crash as Chinese MiG rams into the ocean*

:D
Title: New Vasudan science cruiser
Post by: Sesquipedalian on October 18, 2002, 12:35:11 am
My one suggestion is this:  

As a science ship it would need some significant internal volume to hold the labs and research equipment.  The shape of the main hull as it stands now leaves very little space for even so much as living quarters once you have the engines and other subsytems in there.  More internal volume should be added.
Title: New Vasudan science cruiser
Post by: Knight Templar on October 18, 2002, 12:42:03 am
Quote
Mikhael, you're right. AWACS do need to scan in 3D. It olny occurred to me that an AWACS scan would be in two dimensions because the radar screens Air Force uses today are 2D...


AWACS plating on the wings? :D

Quote
GE, I really like the idea of a Wild Weasel vessel, but I don't think it should be called a science cruiser. Maybe classify it as a gunboat? I don't want to say frigate, because in DatDB, I designated Aldo's warcruiser mods as frigates...


perhaps GVEc (Galatic Vasudan E-War Cruiser) ?

Or maybe just GVEf (Frigate) .. it depends on its size really.. not a gunship. those are for well.. guns. This is more of a "special" frigate.


lol chinese fighters planes.. jeeze :lol:
Title: New Vasudan science cruiser
Post by: Goober5000 on October 18, 2002, 12:42:52 am
Quote
Originally posted by Su-tehp
Should we classify this new mod as a brand new AWACS or as something else? I don't like the idea of classifying it as a science cruiser because science cruisers are originally civilian vessels (that can be drafted into military service, true, but they're still primarily civilian) and AWACS are always military....
The ship strickes me as an AWACS.  It's rather compact, and if GE wants it to fill multiple roles it'll probably have to come from the military.  Shame - I'd really like to see a Vasudan science cruiser. :nod:
Quote
Dude, Goober, that is low!
:nervous: :)

Sorry, that was too good of an opportunity to pass up. :D
Quote
[translated from Chinese]: Agggh! I'm so blatantly filled with testosterone, I actually thought I could ram a bigger plane than mine at 900 knots and not get a scratch on me! Well, I'm losing altitude at an alarming rate, but that's alright. The Worker's Paradise that is Mother China won't let me die. Marx won't let me die. The butchers of Tiannanman Square who are my country's leaders won't let me die. I've got nothing to worry abo--"

*sound of huge explosion and crash as Chinese MiG rams into the ocean*
:lol: :lol: :lol:
Title: New Vasudan science cruiser
Post by: Rampage on October 18, 2002, 07:45:52 am
The thing looks like a Klingon Bird-of-Prey...

But nonetheless, it's still... okay. :D
Title: Damn you beat me to it!
Post by: Star Dragon on October 18, 2002, 10:56:19 am
Yeah a Klingon with a propeller on top!

Seriously LOSE the propeller (or redesign it!) No offense...

   I'm watching part of "Tucker a man and his dream" about the car guy.  Do what you want it's your ship. If they don't like it they dont hafta use it! ;)

   That sounds like a great idea... Making areas of the hull be deflector type scanners scattered all around to get 3d readings... just make one central point for the sensors subsytem control area (like normal) but (bitmaps?Textures? Sunobjects?) over the hull as scanners... True this may sound/look high tech, but that's what I would do.

  And definately make it an EW craft. Science is too diverse BUT think of this having an EW ship assigned with a Science cruiser? IE: Something new pops up in space, an anomoly. A science cruiser is dispatched to study it specifically and an EW ship is assigned too to assist cause it has better scanning capability and early warning systems, (jamming if needed should hostile forces come around, it could cloak itself and the nearby ship with background static)... How's that?
Title: New Vasudan science cruiser
Post by: Black_Dragon on October 18, 2002, 03:48:31 pm
Pull the string on that one and it going to fly away.  Jeje


But if you want some serious mod ship,  take that propeller or whatever it is out of it,  but you got a good model there.
Title: New Vasudan science cruiser
Post by: aldo_14 on October 18, 2002, 03:58:25 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Knight Templar
ouch, i feel like i just got ***** slapped... :wink:

 


heh this isn't my mod man, i was just tryin' to make sence of it. I think you are right, one or the other.. seeing as how the Vasuds already have their AWACS, they need a science ship.. with no  rotatlimatilda. Why is that on the Faustus anyways? Solar Power?  :doubt:  You could make a new Electronic Waring ship, just need a betta design.. perhaps i should try ;7


y'know, the Vasudans can use the Gas miner (Anuket) for scientific purposes;

"The GVG Anuket was originally designed for resource extraction in the volatile environment of gas giants. More recently, the Anuket has been modified for nebular operations. The Anuket has the most sophisticated sensor array available, enabling it to navigate the intense EM maelstroms of supernova remnants. In the nebula, the Anuket plays two important roles. st, the miner collects samples for scientific analysis and serves as a laboratory for field experiments Second, the Anuket gathers deuterium-rich gas for use in the fusion drives that power the allied fleet."

Ok, it's not perfect.  but it may be useful in case anyone is looking for a Vas science ship urgently......
Title: New Vasudan science cruiser
Post by: Knight Templar on October 18, 2002, 06:29:18 pm
meh.. i guess i always thought of it as a gas miner
Title: New Vasudan science cruiser
Post by: Su-tehp on October 18, 2002, 08:02:42 pm
Yeah, I remeber the stuff about the Anuket labs from the tech database, but I always thought that research was just for studying nebular gas.

But, still, now that I think about it, the Anuket could be used as a Vasudan science ship in a pinch...
Title: New Vasudan science cruiser
Post by: Raptor on October 22, 2002, 01:20:39 pm
Quote:

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
posted by SU-TEHP
But, still, now that I think about it, the Anuket could be used as a Vasudan science ship in a pinch...
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Too True, I have a version of the Anuket acting as a vasudan hunter-killer cruiser, with a very powerful beam cannon mounted in the claw.;7  only flaw is that the claw no longer rotates:(

It is meant as the vasudan answer to the sathanas..........