Hard Light Productions Forums

Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => FS2 Open Coding - The Source Code Project (SCP) => Topic started by: IceFire on October 19, 2002, 06:30:53 pm

Title: Weapon effect suggestion?
Post by: IceFire on October 19, 2002, 06:30:53 pm: I was thinking about different types of weapons effects and I'd like to suggest one. In actual fact...its not a new effect but it is an expanding of an effect already present.

The particle spew on the Lamprey and flak based weapons.

I'd love to be able to specify the particle animation, the density, spread, and whatever other variables of such a weapon via the table (or using a separate table and setting a number of type effects then referenced by the weapons table - whichever is easier or better).

Weapons such as the plasma blasts of those bugs in StarShip Troopers that took out so many human capital ships is just one possibility.
Title: Weapon effect suggestion?
Post by: Solatar on October 19, 2002, 06:42:01 pm: And making them into 3d missile trails.
Title: Weapon effect suggestion?
Post by: Knight Templar on October 19, 2002, 06:50:59 pm: "Depth Charges"

could look like photon torps.
Title: Weapon effect suggestion?
Post by: demon442 on October 20, 2002, 03:16:41 am: I see a plasma flame-thrower in the near future...
Title: Weapon effect suggestion?
Post by: Knight Templar on October 20, 2002, 03:26:43 am: Exploding Mine Counter-Measures
Title: Weapon effect suggestion?
Post by: Bobboau on October 20, 2002, 03:28:12 am: this would be better served in the SCP forum, if I can get my current project (loading a model for warpin) working I'll do this, if I remember about it
Title: Weapon effect suggestion?
Post by: Shrike on October 20, 2002, 03:48:10 am: moved
Title: Weapon effect suggestion?
Post by: Knight Templar on October 20, 2002, 04:23:03 am: i want to say Defiant-esque pulse phaser thingies.. those kick ass
Title: Weapon effect suggestion?
Post by: Fury on October 20, 2002, 06:38:48 am: Quote
Originally posted by Knight Templar
i want to say Defiant-esque pulse phaser thingies.. those kick ass

Never seen it firing, so I don't know. :p
Got screen? ;)
Title: Weapon effect suggestion?
Post by: vyper on October 20, 2002, 08:55:05 am: Imagine rapid firing Terran Turrets (with lots of damage) and you'll get the idea.
Title: Weapon effect suggestion?
Post by: StarGunner on October 20, 2002, 10:56:53 am: Quote
Originally posted by vyper
Imagine rapid firing Terran Turrets (with lots of damage) and you'll get the idea.

Thay are alreddy 3D look cloce next time before posting here. and if you don't baleave me take a good cloce look for your self.
Title: Weapon effect suggestion?
Post by: Darkage on October 20, 2002, 11:32:06 am: Quote
Originally posted by StarGunner

Thay are alreddy 3D look cloce next time before posting here. and if you don't baleave me take a good cloce look for your self.

They are not 3D.. The missile trails and laser blobs are bitmaps. They look 3D but they arent.

So you take a closer look next time before posting.
Title: Weapon effect suggestion?
Post by: Anaz on October 20, 2002, 12:04:20 pm: Quote
Originally posted by demon442
I see a plasma flame-thrower in the near future...

thats actually fairly easy to do...you just make your img for one of the blobs, and specify it as the image for the weapon. Set a fire rate to something really low, and there ya have it!
Title: Weapon effect suggestion?
Post by: IceFire on October 20, 2002, 12:58:30 pm: Quote
Originally posted by StarGunner

Thay are alreddy 3D look cloce next time before posting here. and if you don't baleave me take a good cloce look for your self.

They are not 3D at all...they are 2 dimensional bitmaps (PCX format) that are managed by the engine to give some impression of being 3D or interacting with the 3D world in a convincing manner.
Title: Weapon effect suggestion?
Post by: RandomTiger on October 20, 2002, 01:09:56 pm: Quote
Originally posted by darkage

They are not 3D.. The missile trails and laser blobs are bitmaps. They look 3D but they arent.

So you take a closer look next time before posting.

I believe laser blobs are are just 2D bitmaps always facing the camera but Im fairly certain that missle trails (the long ones anyway) are 3D or at least not facing the camera (ie 2D in 3D space).
Title: Weapon effect suggestion?
Post by: Knight Templar on October 20, 2002, 01:28:10 pm: Quote
fairly certain that missle trails (the long ones anyway) are 3D or at least not facing the camera (ie 2D in 3D space).

Just look at the helios missle trails.

bleh :blah:
Title: Weapon effect suggestion?
Post by: Fury on October 20, 2002, 01:49:51 pm: Quote
Originally posted by IceFire

They are not 3D at all...they are 2 dimensional bitmaps (PCX format) that are managed by the engine to give some impression of being 3D or interacting with the 3D world in a convincing manner.

Unfortunately so... :(
They look fine unless you can see them directly in front of you or behind of them. They're flat.
Title: Weapon effect suggestion?
Post by: aldo_14 on October 20, 2002, 03:27:02 pm: The laser pcxs are basically shown onscreen and have their length set to give the impression of perspective. Pain in the tits when it comes to making new ones, IMO.
Title: Weapon effect suggestion?
Post by: HotSnoJ on October 20, 2002, 07:47:55 pm: What we need is 3D explosions, something that'll be in your face.

HotSnoJ goes to hide whiles someone (http://www.planethardwar.com/~hwcomic/smiles/flamethrower.gif)
Title: Weapon effect suggestion?
Post by: Knight Templar on October 20, 2002, 07:52:33 pm: There was a really sick explosion/shockwave thingy in the art forum.. lemme go find.
Title: Weapon effect suggestion?
Post by: RandomTiger on October 20, 2002, 07:53:50 pm: Tell me what games use true 3D explosions and give me a screenshot.
Then tell me what its min spec is.

Edit: Technically I've worked on a game with true 3D explosions, I sure wouldnt trade FS2's explosions for them.
Title: Weapon effect suggestion?
Post by: Knight Templar on October 20, 2002, 07:58:43 pm: i like these

Kabboom! (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,9843.0.html)
Title: Weapon effect suggestion?
Post by: RandomTiger on October 20, 2002, 08:11:26 pm: Very nice, but how about something from a game. You cant possibly expect me to code 3DMAX real time explosions into fs2_open.

(http://www.ijbrooks.demon.co.uk/tom/extras/jaw.gif)
Title: Weapon effect suggestion?
Post by: Knight Templar on October 20, 2002, 08:27:43 pm: meh.. i still like them :D
Title: Weapon effect suggestion?
Post by: Darkage on October 20, 2002, 08:31:04 pm: Knight Templar:

They are already in game;)

I made them for OTT.

I did tild them abit so it looks like it's 3D.:)
Title: Weapon effect suggestion?
Post by: Knight Templar on October 20, 2002, 08:36:50 pm: :eek: :eek2: :eek:

:yes: :yes: :yes:

let's not take too long for the campaign now ;) :D
Title: Weapon effect suggestion?
Post by: Carl on October 20, 2002, 11:23:36 pm: Quote
Originally posted by Knight Templar
i want to say Defiant-esque pulse phaser thingies.. those kick ass

heh, that'd be easy. you could do it in 3 minutes.
Title: Weapon effect suggestion?
Post by: Knight Templar on October 20, 2002, 11:39:48 pm: me or you in general.. if i could..

now i'm curious
Title: Weapon effect suggestion?
Post by: Darkage on October 21, 2002, 01:59:04 am: maby i'll make a small pack whit the shockwaves.
Title: Weapon effect suggestion?
Post by: vyper on October 21, 2002, 04:09:50 am: Quote
Originally posted by StarGunner

Thay are alreddy 3D look cloce next time before posting here. and if you don't baleave me take a good cloce look for your self.

I was talking about the defiants pulse phasers you...:mad2:
Title: Weapon effect suggestion?
Post by: HotSnoJ on October 21, 2002, 05:05:31 am: Quote
Originally posted by RandomTiger
Tell me what games use true 3D explosions and give me a screenshot.
Then tell me what its min spec is.

Edit: Technically I've worked on a game with true 3D explosions, I sure wouldnt trade FS2's explosions for them.

I sure can, Star Fox 64! The smoke may not be 3D but the explosions sure look like it. And whats so hard about making a sphere mesh grow in size :confused:.

*feels a desturbence in the "Author"*
Uh-oh I feel a (http://www.planethardwar.com/~hwcomic/smiles/flamer.gif)-thing is going to happen to me for saying, "Whats so hard".
Title: Weapon effect suggestion?
Post by: KARMA on October 21, 2002, 05:09:37 am: Quote
Originally posted by RandomTiger
Tell me what games use true 3D explosions and give me a screenshot.
Then tell me what its min spec is.

Edit: Technically I've worked on a game with true 3D explosions, I sure wouldnt trade FS2's explosions for them.

as far as i can remember quake2: a low poly sphere (well not exacty a spehere) that grows
but i agree that the result wasn't so good

about 2D/3D shockwave instead is something that would be nice if partially redone, both art and code, there was a thread about this 2-3 months ago about giving them a perspective, when now they are just 2D with a 90° degree to the camera

about new weapons, i think that with actual system you can make most of what you can imagine, only thing i can think of that i'm not sure you can do are, uh, some huge "plasma balls", i mean an energy sphere with lightning bolts or other animated effects (something like, you charge then fire the single big shot, like with some weapons in tachyon)
Title: Weapon effect suggestion?
Post by: HotSnoJ on October 21, 2002, 05:18:19 am: Well at least make it so the shockwave don't always face the camera. I'll get a pic out of what I mean.
Title: Weapon effect suggestion?
Post by: RandomTiger on October 21, 2002, 05:26:10 am: Sigh...
Title: Weapon effect suggestion?
Post by: Darkage on October 21, 2002, 05:26:45 am: (http://www.3dap.com/hlp/hosted/ott/variouspics/doomhammer7.jpg)

This is how my shockwaves look like in FS2.
Title: Weapon effect suggestion?
Post by: RandomTiger on October 21, 2002, 05:43:11 am: Im fully aware of how the freespace engine works, I want pics of what you WANT.

If you really want this you will have to be realistic about what you want. I guess maybe Im the wrong person for this discussion since I like the 2D expolsions, only way to get a photorealistic effect.
Title: Weapon effect suggestion?
Post by: Sesquipedalian on October 21, 2002, 05:45:40 am: Hot-diggity, darkage! I want that ani! :D

Please? :)
Title: Weapon effect suggestion?
Post by: Darkage on October 21, 2002, 06:20:55 am: Quote
Originally posted by Sesquipedalian
Hot-diggity, darkage! I want that ani! :D

Please? :)

LOL !!

You work for OTT, so grab the, from the files thread:p
Title: Weapon effect suggestion?
Post by: Sesquipedalian on October 21, 2002, 02:16:54 pm: D'oh! Well, don't I just feel stupid? Thanks. :)
Title: Weapon effect suggestion?
Post by: HotSnoJ on October 21, 2002, 05:15:32 pm: (http://www.planethardwar.com/~hwcomic/FS_mods/renders/shockwave_02.jpg)
What the engine does at the moment with explosions.

(http://www.planethardwar.com/~hwcomic/FS_mods/renders/shockwave_03.jpg)
What I'd like it to do. Just think Star Wars 4 & 6's Death Star explosions.
Title: Weapon effect suggestion?
Post by: Knight Templar on October 21, 2002, 07:55:55 pm: hot ****! i remember those, niice darkage :yes: :yes: :D

hey did it also come with the ships that don't die when they reach zero... like they explode like that but then they stay derelict corpses, like in "real life" ?
Title: Weapon effect suggestion?
Post by: Solatar on October 21, 2002, 08:08:44 pm: Derelicts are cool.:p
Title: Weapon effect suggestion?
Post by: IceFire on October 21, 2002, 09:47:28 pm: So it'd have to be mapped onto a model of some sort. Trust me, changing the ANI perspective does not work at all.
Title: Weapon effect suggestion?
Post by: Bobboau on October 21, 2002, 10:09:36 pm: so would you like it to be totaly random orientation, or somehow aligned with the model
Title: Weapon effect suggestion?
Post by: LAW ENFORCER on October 22, 2002, 04:22:01 am: Wathever you do just make sure you can switch it or use both flawlessly
Title: Weapon effect suggestion?
Post by: Nico on October 22, 2002, 04:49:46 am: random is probably best. ala Prophecy.
Title: Weapon effect suggestion?
Post by: KARMA on October 22, 2002, 06:35:26 am: but what if we use an ani that is already in perspective? (that will be a deformed ani)
it will just simulate prospective, there will be no profondity (right term?i mean 3d space propagation) so there will be some distorsion (you wan't see a shockwave passing through a ship) but it may work enough good

and about prophecy, i can't remember if it was really fully random or if perspective angle was always the same and what was changing was only the rotation angle...
Title: Weapon effect suggestion?
Post by: aldo_14 on October 22, 2002, 07:24:05 am: remember that the explosions in FS 'throw' the debris backwards and forwards... if you rotate the shockwave, you'll need to rotate that sort of 'logical split point', so the ship gives the impression of being cut in half along it's length when it explodes. That'ss need some SC change sto do with the explosion order and physics, IMO.
Title: Weapon effect suggestion?
Post by: Nico on October 22, 2002, 08:10:45 am: Quote
Originally posted by KARMA
and about prophecy, i can't remember if it was really fully random or if perspective angle was always the same and what was changing was only the rotation angle...

they were fully 3d and fully random.

Quote
Originally posted by Aldo_14
remember that the explosions in FS 'throw' the debris backwards and forwards... if you rotate the shockwave, you'll need to rotate that sort of 'logical split point', so the ship gives the impression of being cut in half along it's length when it explodes. That'ss need some SC change sto do with the explosion order and physics, IMO.

I don't agree, the tests in OTT worked perfectly, nothing seemed wrong ( save on those pics, don't ask why, but my staff chose the only shots where the shockwaves are all at the same angle :doubt: )
Title: Weapon effect suggestion?
Post by: Fury on October 22, 2002, 08:54:39 am: For TBP it would be perhaps best to have increased amounts of smaller but more detailed explosions. While perhaps small shockwaves coming from "exposed" areas of hull.

Aww, dunno... I am probably gonna be blamed for such comment.
Title: Weapon effect suggestion?
Post by: ##UnknownPlayer## on October 23, 2002, 01:24:45 am: Making the shockwaves have perspective like that doesn't actually seem like it would be too hard. I'll take a shot at it I think.
Title: Weapon effect suggestion?
Post by: KARMA on October 23, 2002, 08:01:24 am: another nice thing (but probably impossible) about shockwaves would be the glow sphere
i mean a smoothed spehere that grows inside the shockwave ring (the ani we were talking about in precedent posts), a sphere with a semi-transparent glow, no textures
something like -if some of you remember it- the shockwave in the film star trek: generations when the mad scientist kidnap laforge and launch a starkiller torpedo against the star: the star explodes and a massive shockwave semitransparent sphere grows, that shockwave was just a "glass sphere" but it was very funny:)
Title: Weapon effect suggestion?
Post by: Darkage on October 23, 2002, 05:11:06 pm: Quote
Originally posted by ##UnknownPlayer##
Making the shockwaves have perspective like that doesn't actually seem like it would be too hard. I'll take a shot at it I think.

I already did that whit the OTT shockwaves. But you can't see that on the pic i posted.
Title: Weapon effect suggestion?
Post by: Knight Templar on October 23, 2002, 05:35:05 pm: hey Darkage, check your PMs
Title: Weapon effect suggestion?
Post by: Bobboau on October 24, 2002, 03:28:59 am: ok I've goten the psew thing to work, DL this (http://freespace.volitionwatch.com/blackwater/fs2_open_debug.zip), it also has the warp model loading,
oops, I didn't include the warp model... crap
well I guess it's a good thing I left the old rendering code in as a failsafe
no I'll just have to reupload it
reuploaded, but I put in my warp model for TBP, oops
anyway
add this to you're table
Code: [Select]
$Name: pspewtest1 +Title: XSTR("GTW-83 Lamprey", 3302) +Description: XSTR( " Tactical Weapon Medium Energy Usage Level 3 Shield Damage", 3303) $end_multi_text +Tech Title: XSTR("GTW-83 Lamprey", 3304) +Tech Anim: Tech_GTW-83_Lamprey +Tech Description: XSTR( ".", 3305) $end_multi_text $Model File: none @Laser Bitmap: newglo6 @Laser Glow: 2_laserglow03 @Laser Color: 120, 120, 30 @Laser Color2: 120, 120, 30 @Laser Length: 2.0 @Laser Head Radius: 1.0 @Laser Tail Radius: 1.0 $Mass: 0.2 $Velocity: 450.0 $Fire Wait: 0.3 $Damage: 14 $Armor Factor: 0.1 $Shield Factor: 1.0 $Subsystem Factor: 0.0 $Lifetime: 2.0 $Energy Consumed: 1.2 $Cargo Size: 0.0 $Homing: NO $LaunchSnd: 84 $ImpactSnd: 85 $Flags: ( "player allowed" "esuck" "particle spew") $Icon: iconLich $Anim: Lich $Impact Explosion: none $Pspew: +Count: 1 +Time: 25 +Vel: .4 +Radius: 2.0 +Life: 0.15 +Scale: 0.8 +Bitmap: warpmap01
someone test to see if the pcx loading works as well I'm too tired to do anything else tonight,
also if anyone else gets a hard lock while starting on ocation please tell me as I am going to go insain if it's just me
Title: Weapon effect suggestion?
Post by: ##UnknownPlayer## on October 26, 2002, 11:06:12 am: Ok I've hacked in some preliminary support for the game to arbitrarily assign perspective to each shockwave it creates. Will refine it tomorrow, because its 3.18am right now.
Title: Weapon effect suggestion?
Post by: RandomTiger on October 26, 2002, 11:15:42 am: What happens if the users eye level is exactly parallel with the explosion plane? They wont see anything.

Edit: Bob, check your e-mail
Title: Weapon effect suggestion?
Post by: Nico on October 26, 2002, 11:20:49 am: Quote
Originally posted by RandomTiger
What happens if the users eye level is exactly parallel with the explosion plane? They wont see anything.

wouldn't happen often, and as your ship moves, the odds you stay exactly on the same plan are near inexistant.
Title: Weapon effect suggestion?
Post by: RandomTiger on October 26, 2002, 11:33:28 am: Agreed however even if it was just close to being that situation it would be very visually obvious that its infinately thin.
Title: Weapon effect suggestion?
Post by: Nico on October 26, 2002, 11:52:07 am: Quote
Originally posted by RandomTiger
Agreed however even if it was just close to being that situation it would be very visually obvious that its infinately thin.

not a big deal, it happened sometimes in wing co prophecy, never shocked me.
Title: Weapon effect suggestion?
Post by: Solatar on October 26, 2002, 11:58:19 am: If somebody is really worried about it. They can asign a .pcx file to be the "edge" of the shockwave. Making the whole thing look three dimensional from any angle.
Title: Weapon effect suggestion?
Post by: RandomTiger on October 26, 2002, 12:11:50 pm: Quote
Originally posted by Hades
If somebody is really worried about it. They can asign a .pcx file to be the "edge" of the shockwave. Making the whole thing look three dimensional from any angle.

I've thought about that put it would be very tricky to get right. Cant just shove it in when it becomes parallel.

Perhaps a <>-------------------center------------------<> shape would work.

Might as well see how it looks first I guess, if venom2506 is right perhaps its not that bad.

Just out of interest what would determine which way it is oriented?
Title: Weapon effect suggestion?
Post by: Bobboau on October 26, 2002, 03:00:26 pm: maybe you could have a poly aligned along the perpondicular axis of the shockwave that renders like a beam, and add to it's z value ass the shockwave expands
Title: Weapon effect suggestion?
Post by: aldo_14 on October 26, 2002, 03:42:22 pm: What would be really cool would be rendering it as a torus object........ of course, that could be poly-rific.
Title: Weapon effect suggestion?
Post by: Bobboau on October 26, 2002, 03:45:25 pm: and we could set the alpha based on the angle you are looking at it so it only comes into view as the shockwave comes in on edge
Title: Weapon effect suggestion?
Post by: ##UnknownPlayer## on October 26, 2002, 10:22:59 pm: Actually I've been thinking about this torus path now. With Bobbaou using the warp hole model to project that, I'm wondering if perhaps this is how it should go instead. Basically, we'd stretch the ani over the model, so when you were parrallel with the front, it would look like the blue 'front' was approaching you.
Title: Weapon effect suggestion?
Post by: Fury on October 27, 2002, 02:54:18 am: Gah, replied to wrong topic. :p
Title: Weapon effect suggestion?
Post by: Nico on October 27, 2002, 03:19:16 am: find the laser code, and give the shockwave a glow. voila!
Title: Weapon effect suggestion?
Post by: aldo_14 on October 27, 2002, 07:55:50 am: Quote
Originally posted by ##UnknownPlayer##
Actually I've been thinking about this torus path now. With Bobbaou using the warp hole model to project that, I'm wondering if perhaps this is how it should go instead. Basically, we'd stretch the ani over the model, so when you were parrallel with the front, it would look like the blue 'front' was approaching you.

Maybe it would be more efficient to use a flattened cylinder than a torus?

(i.e. take a cylinder, and make the outermost ends 'sharp' to help the effect.... also weld together the centre polies on the top/ bottom 'caps' of the cylinder to create a depression in the centre, and use transparency to get a torus-like appearance, but without as many polys to be rendered....)
Title: Weapon effect suggestion?
Post by: Stunaep on October 27, 2002, 08:16:15 am: to prevent the shockwave no-seeing thing from happening, you could just code in something in the flavour of the perspective shockwave never being shown on certain angles (somewhere from 0-20 degrees) if you know what I mean. That way, the shockwave would always show.
Title: Weapon effect suggestion?
Post by: Bobboau on October 27, 2002, 01:12:34 pm: my code is designed to be able to do that sort of thing
Title: Weapon effect suggestion?
Post by: ZylonBane on October 28, 2002, 08:16:01 am: Umm... are you guys also planning on altering FS2's shockwave collision code? Because if what's onscreen doesn't match what happens to the player's ship, people are going to get pissed off.

FS2's nice spherical shockwaves may be somewhat improbable, but flat-disc shockwaves under these conditions are physically impossible, and exist only because of lazy or technically constrained animators.