Hard Light Productions Forums
Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => FS2 Open Coding - The Source Code Project (SCP) => Topic started by: Raven2001 on October 21, 2002, 08:35:20 am
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Is it possibla, with the DX8 upgrade to improve the game graphics like in Starlancer/Freelancer??
Are you planning to do it???
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More details please, what happened to Starlancer/Freelancer?
Currently its only a code improvement. We could desparately do with some artists to improve the game media.
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That's an important distinction. Code enhancements enable spiffy new graphics.
Most programmer types have the art skills of road kill (well, that accurately describes me, I shouldn't lump everyone else with that), so while we can enable the capability, someone (ie a mod maker) needs to come up with art that takes advantage of the code :)
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If I have understood correctly...
First step is to improve and add code. That alone does not really improve existing FS2 graphics, sound and overall atmosphere.
This code allows better lightning (T&L), larger textures and more complex (higher polycount) models. Perhaps DX8 can handle lightning much better without redoing the effects themselves. Dunno.
Second step is to redo textures used in FS2. That alone will improve visual quality.
By the way... Why in the world you always think about graphics?! Improved graphics alone does not make better game atmosphere... I also wish to hear improved sound effects and music quality.
Mods and total conversions will benefit more from the work of SCP-team.
And now it's time for p1mp1n! ;) See my siggy below and visit The Babylon Project! :D
Ok... who's not already been playing TBP already... :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Mr. Fury
Ok... who's not already been playing TBP already... :rolleyes:
Me.
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We have someone working on sound but theres little he can do without someone improving the quality of the media.
Same with the graphics, I can shove as much fancy code in there as I want but its will only look massively better if people provide the media.
If a group were to start these media projects now then they might be ready at the same time as the code.
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Originally posted by Shrike
Me.
Sucker. :p
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j/k ;)
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Please dont derail this topic, its an interesting one.
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We're not just thinking about graphics ;)
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Well, about better graphics and models let me say just one word...
AAAAALDOOOOO :)
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Hmm, maybe I should fire up my super-duper-fast-as-lightening-always-gorgeous-Shivan-texture-tile-maker in Corel PhotoPaint and whip out some nice new high-res textures for use on Shivan capital ships.
Also, one question I have regarding graphical upgrades is this:
Currently the HUD graphics have to be in a very specific colour pallette (unlike most graphics in FS2 which can be in any old pallette, just as long as it is 8-bit). I assume this is because the HUD code, needing to be able to take these grayscale pixels and put them through colour transformations (so that you get red or green or blue or off-coloured taupe HUD displays), is programmed to work with very specific shades of gray. If this were changed somehow to allow, say, 16-bit grayscale, I could make HUD graphics that were much, much smoother and visually pleasing. Can it be done?
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It can all be done, just depends how difficult and if anyone is willing to do it.
A total guess, I would say that it would be fairly tricky to do that, but not mega difficult. However that is engine independant so it could be done in the main code quite easily. Nothing to do with DX8.
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Originally posted by RandomTiger
We have someone working on sound but theres little he can do without someone improving the quality of the media.
Same with the graphics, I can shove as much fancy code in there as I want but its will only look massively better if people provide the media.
If a group were to start these media projects now then they might be ready at the same time as the code.
I think I'm like most modders that I'd much prefer to make new maps and models rather than redo the existing ones.
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The maps we have are the most detailed ones available. We can't add more detail if we don't know what to add. Though if you pull this off ( Which is VERY likely ) many future models will have more detail. Also, I can maybe get some better suns. 16.7 million color ones.:D I just need to screw with the colors, because I don't have a white one.
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Originally posted by RandomTiger
More details please, what happened to Starlancer/Freelancer?
Currently its only a code improvement. We could desparately do with some artists to improve the game media.
Well, basically, Starlancer has much better graphical quality (most of it being done by the lightning...), better textures, high poly models (and much faster...). Other cool stuff are the partical effects (when you hit the enemy and when it explodes... already done by Komet, but it can be made with better .pcx files...), and other kind of effects like gun fire (fire coming out of the gun point when you fire... kinda like muzzleflash, but better...) That's it basically... look at the freelancer in-game pics here at HLP to see what kind of graphical stuff I mean :)
Since this kind of work needs interaction between coders/modders, if you need any help with 3d modelling, just ask :)
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I would commit murder for Starlancer-esque graphics and poly count!
And if you can drag in the torpedoes too......
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Originally posted by Raven2001
Since this kind of work needs interaction between coders/modders, if you need any help with 3d modelling, just ask :)
I will :)
aldo_14: I get your point, shame though really
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Originally posted by Raven2001
That's it basically... look at the freelancer in-game pics here at HLP to see what kind of graphical stuff I mean :)
Forgive my ignorence, where?
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Lancers Reactor has some nice ones here (http://www.lancersreactor.com/t/art/thumbs.asp?dir=fl).
Essentially I think what people want (and me too) is this:
1) Enhanced framerates and better visual quality - specular highlights, no-dim lights in D3D, bump mapping, trilinear filtering (I don't think FS2 does it and I think it helps give that nice smooth graphical feel to things)
2) Greater environment interaction - better control over debris, asteroid fields, a better background system so more detailed background nebula can be setup (i'm not sure how other games do this, but FreeLancer can do this nifty detailed backgrounds and I can't do this with FS2 at present), sun and ambient light controls beyond the current abilities (ambient control is a hacked and slash version of what it could be)
3) Little things - such as particle effect weapons, real laser trails (adding a missile trail draws the trail at the edge of the bitmap rather than center), pcx muzzle flashes, sun lense flares
I would take advantage of all of that stuff (and its general enough that everyone else could and would as well) in Paradigm Shift. Keep in mind that its a wish list....and its a long term kind of thing so I want to express that I don't expect you guys to perform miracles overnight or if its way too far out on a limb, not at all.
There's more exotic things like more model movement control and whatnot but we need the tools and the programming to do it and we don't really have that right now.
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hmmm, guees i´ll have to play with subtitles.
i really cant stand that beverly dude. sry :(.
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Originally posted by IceFire
1) Enhanced framerates and better visual quality - specular highlights, no-dim lights in D3D, bump mapping, trilinear filtering (I don't think FS2 does it and I think it helps give that nice smooth graphical feel to things)
Thats why Im working on DX8.
It wont give us those things initially but it provides a more realistic base than DX5.
2) Greater environment interaction - better control over debris, asteroid fields, a better background system so more detailed background nebula can be setup (i'm not sure how other games do this, but FreeLancer can do this nifty detailed backgrounds and I can't do this with FS2 at present), sun and ambient light controls beyond the current abilities (ambient control is a hacked and slash version of what it could be)
[/B]
Hmm, not really my area.
3) Little things - such as particle effect weapons, real laser trails (adding a missile trail draws the trail at the edge of the bitmap rather than center), pcx muzzle flashes, sun lense flares
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Perhaps once DX8 is in we can look for code like this at places like flipcode.com
That is a lot of work but if people stick around and work at it I dont see why we cant have a lot of those things.
Really the bottle necks are DX8 and HT&L, until they are done we cant really do anything special with the graphics.
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while looking through modelinterp.cpp I found an interesting bit of commented out code right below model_interp_defpoints, specificly interp_compute_environment_mapping ;7
I don't think it works though :sigh:
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i really misse the point of this ..what a heck you need a 2500 p Fighter? for cap ships maybe ..so i think the performace boost is what we need...HT&L hmm maybe..
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RandomTiger: Yep...I have a pretty good idea that what I've put there is a big list and none of it will be easy. But I thought I would articulate what I think people are after (in general). As I said, I hold no unrealistic timeframes on how quickly or slowly this would be done. We're fans, it takes time. I know how long things take....I've been with TBP now for almost 3 years plus. I can wait :D
Oh and Lens Flare code was added to FS1 at one time. It was removed later. Remnants of it may still be in the code however.
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Originally posted by IceFire
Oh and Lens Flare code was added to FS1 at one time. It was removed later. Remnants of it may still be in the code however.
Searched for the phrase 'lens flare' but nothing came up, if its in there is damn well hidden.
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I guess Ice said it all :)
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Originally posted by Sesquipedalian
Hmm, maybe I should fire up my super-duper-fast-as-lightening-always-gorgeous-Shivan-texture-tile-maker in Corel PhotoPaint and whip out some nice new high-res textures for use on Shivan capital ships.
Are you being serious here? Let's see some screenies. :D
Originally posted by Hades
Also, I can maybe get some better suns. 16.7 million color ones.:D I just need to screw with the colors, because I don't have a white one.
Uhm.... the suns are the _last_ thing that would benefit from increased colors... :doubt:
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Small Notes: for standard (spherical) env-mapping you simply use U = (Vertex_Normal.X)/2 + 0.5
V = (Vertex_Normal.Y)/2 + 0.5
Now use a simple highlight as a texture with that and do an add-blend with the regular texture, and you've got a fake specular highlight. Ta Da. If you're really bored you can also write a pixel shader that does fake bump-mapping by using the bump-map data as an offset for where you sample the highlight texture.
Also, lens flare is surprisingly simple. basically you take the sun's coordinates in screen-space (or any other source of a lens flare), and draw all the flares in an imaginary line between the sun's x,y to (maxX-sunX,maxY-SunY).Here's some pseudo-code:
if (sun is visible)
end.x=max.x-sun.x
end.y=max.y-sun.y
delta.x=end.x-sun.x
delta.y=end.y-sun.y
set_blend(source_one,dest_one)
enable(alpha_blend)
draw("flare_main.pcx",sun.x,sun.y)
draw("flare1.pcx",sun.x+delta*0.2f,sun.y+delta*0.2f)
draw("flare1.pcx",sun.x+delta*0.8f,sun.y+delta*0.8f)
draw("flare2.pcx",sun.x+delta*0.1f,sun.y+delta*0.1f)
draw("flare2.pcx",sun.x+delta*0.7f,sun.y+delta*0.7f)
draw("flare3.pcx",sun.x+delta*0.5f,sun.y+delta*0.5f)
draw("flare3.pcx",sun.x+delta*0.9f,sun.y+delta*0.9f)
restore_states()
That's all there is to it. I pretty sure it's not mathematically correct, but the non-uniform spread of the flares looks nicer, and you can also use more flare types and play with the spread. It's that simple.