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Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => FS2 Open Coding - The Source Code Project (SCP) => Topic started by: Raven2001 on October 26, 2002, 08:29:30 am

Title: Bump-Mapping Q's
Post by: Raven2001 on October 26, 2002, 08:29:30 am
Ok, I suppose that bump-mapping is a method them makes textures look 3d right?? Correct me if I'm wrong...

Since I'm interested in this kind of technology for CIM, I would like to know if any kind of program or technique is required in order to make bump-mapped textures... or does the engine make that for itself???
Title: Bump-Mapping Q's
Post by: RandomTiger on October 26, 2002, 08:34:37 am
You will usually want to make the bumpmap texture yourself, also you may need to make an environment map.
Title: Bump-Mapping Q's
Post by: Raven2001 on October 26, 2002, 08:37:13 am
How do I make that bump-map texture?? Any special prog for that??
Title: Bump-Mapping Q's
Post by: RandomTiger on October 26, 2002, 08:38:40 am
Its nothing special, just a greyscale pic showing the height.
Do some searches on google.
DX8 SDK has some examples as well.
Title: Bump-Mapping Q's
Post by: Ryx on October 26, 2002, 12:53:12 pm
Here's an exsample.
(http://w1.520.telia.com/~u52019065/bump.jpg)

*hopes the bump effect is visible*
Title: Bump-Mapping Q's
Post by: Fury on October 26, 2002, 01:14:43 pm
It is visible. :)

Bumpmapping would be neat for TBP... :D
(and for any other project for that matter :p)
Title: Bump-Mapping Q's
Post by: Taristin on October 26, 2002, 01:35:13 pm
Yeah, but I wonder how smoothly the game'll run. We all want large texxies, and bumpmapping, who cares if we get a 2 fps rate? :rolleyes:
Title: Bump-Mapping Q's
Post by: RandomTiger on October 26, 2002, 01:51:43 pm
I figure we run it through hardware using DX8 and those who have cards that can handle it will be OK and people who cant just wont have it.
Title: Bump-Mapping Q's
Post by: Taristin on October 26, 2002, 01:54:15 pm
Will a GF2 Mx 200 support it?
Title: Bump-Mapping Q's
Post by: aldo_14 on October 26, 2002, 02:14:07 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Raa Tor'h
Will a GF2 Mx 200 support it?


Well, me GFMx200 supports it in other games.  although I'm not sure how much impact it would have on FS2, based on the fact I've never noticed whether it's in I-War2 or not.
Title: Bump-Mapping Q's
Post by: RandomTiger on October 26, 2002, 02:14:10 pm
Dont know, given that its an MX perhaps not.
To be honest I know very little about bumpmapping in DX, just that it is possible.
Title: Bump-Mapping Q's
Post by: Nico on October 26, 2002, 07:08:10 pm
Quote
Originally posted by aldo_14


Well, me GFMx200 supports it in other games.  although I'm not sure how much impact it would have on FS2, based on the fact I've never noticed whether it's in I-War2 or not.


well, as Iwar2 doesn't have bump mapping, you'll never notice it :p Iwar2 has reflection maps.
Title: Bump-Mapping Q's
Post by: Raven2001 on October 28, 2002, 08:32:32 am
Hmmm... I got it :)

Thanks everybody :)

BTW, if I make a bump mapped texture and use it in FS right now, nothing will happen, but the game will run normaly right?? Just think in terms of testing stuff now, without having to make a texture redesign...
Title: Bump-Mapping Q's
Post by: vyper on October 28, 2002, 11:44:41 am
Again I beg you don't make the bumping DOT3. pweeez, otherwise my little G400 won't run it.
Title: Bump-Mapping Q's
Post by: Bobboau on October 28, 2002, 11:55:39 am
you can't make a bump maped texture now, we don't even have a way of entering the data yet
Title: Bump-Mapping Q's
Post by: RandomTiger on October 28, 2002, 12:02:29 pm
Quote
Originally posted by vyper
Again I beg you don't make the bumping DOT3. pweeez, otherwise my little G400 won't run it.


We really arent at the stage yet but personally if I was on the job I would do it the quickest and easiest way. That would probably be using the hardware support DX8 allows.
Title: Bump-Mapping Q's
Post by: aldo_14 on October 28, 2002, 04:07:42 pm
What sort of performance hit would we be looking at with bump mapping, anyways?  It's pretty intensive with the lighting, isn't it?

I'm not sure how effective it would be for the cost, that's all.... I'm not sure how many people can actually do GOOD bump maps - I know I can;t (just use embossed maps..hehe).
Title: Bump-Mapping Q's
Post by: RandomTiger on October 28, 2002, 04:11:47 pm
Quote
Originally posted by aldo_14
What sort of performance hit would we be looking at with bump mapping, anyways?  It's pretty intensive with the lighting, isn't it?

I'm not sure how effective it would be for the cost, that's all.... I'm not sure how many people can actually do GOOD bump maps - I know I can;t (just use embossed maps..hehe).


If its going through hardware it should be OK and as long as its optional then no-ones going to suffer a slowdown they dont want.
Title: Bump-Mapping Q's
Post by: Raven2001 on October 28, 2002, 04:35:59 pm
Take your time to do it... I'm not in a rush :)

Again, if you ever need a modding hand in terms of tables or models, feel free to ask :)
Title: Bump-Mapping Q's
Post by: EdrickV on October 31, 2002, 03:16:53 am
I have a very basic idea what bump mapping does, (D3 does something similar to create terrain levels from tga files.) but what is the difference between applying bump maps directly to the textures in a graphics editor as opposed to applying bump maps to the textures/models on the fly?
Title: Bump-Mapping Q's
Post by: Bobboau on October 31, 2002, 10:33:07 am
they get lit diferently, like on a texture usualy it is lit from above, but a bump map will look like its geting lit from the same direction as the model so it looks like surface detail
look at this (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,11123.0.html)
Title: Bump-Mapping Q's
Post by: Riven on November 03, 2002, 06:25:28 am
look at this: http://freespace.virgin.net/realization.project/

if you guys right the code then we will have the maps to use
Title: Bump-Mapping Q's
Post by: Bobboau on November 03, 2002, 06:29:44 am
I've actualy gotten a lot of bump and lighting maps
Title: Bump-Mapping Q's
Post by: Sandwich on November 04, 2002, 11:23:37 am
AFAIK, GF2MXes do support bump-mapping - I have one, and it runs the bump-mapping test in 3DMark 2001 just fine, thank you. :)

Riven, that's a mighty nice page there - simplicity rulez. :)
Title: Bump-Mapping Q's
Post by: wamingo on November 05, 2002, 04:11:45 pm
Not trying to discourage the implementation of bumpmapping, but I question the impact bumpmapping will have on smaller ships...
In freespace you barely see the detail of fighters and other small craft and objects... On large ships, capital ships, spacestations etc it might have a great effect because detail on large objects are made through textures, not polygons...
So before people start making bumpmaps for every tiny object in the game you might wanna rethink, otherwise you may just increase load times for very little reason... don't need to recreate the atom to show us space you know ;)

just a thought :)
Title: Bump-Mapping Q's
Post by: RandomTiger on November 05, 2002, 04:29:12 pm
wamingo is totally right, I have a hard time even noticing the difference of high res textures on fighters when the game is running.

As with everthing else this should be optional, people who want bumpmapping but have limited resources could use only bumpmaps for capital ships while though of you who are rich can have everything they need.

Also someone could improve the loading time quite easily, its not very clever.
Title: Bump-Mapping Q's
Post by: Bobboau on November 06, 2002, 05:25:28 am
they shouldbe made for the first and maybe second detail level, what I think would be more of a visable effect for both and probly easier would be a lumanance map or what ever you want to call it, and for both of these things I think I have sorted a quick and easiy way to load the textures without haveing to add anything to the model format, while loading them simply catagnate "-bump" or "-glow" to the end of the texture name and give that texture index to a int in the pm structure, if someone gives me a draw poly function with optional arguments for transperency, lumanance, and bump (even if they are only place holders for when the code will suport such things) I could have it sorted out in about an hour (well maybe three our four)
Title: Bump-Mapping Q's
Post by: RandomTiger on November 06, 2002, 11:08:40 am
Quote
Originally posted by Bobboau
I think I have sorted a quick and easiy way to load the textures without haveing to add anything to the model format, while loading them simply catagnate "-bump" or "-glow" to the end of the texture name


Great minds tink alike, I had the same idea.
Title: Bump-Mapping Q's
Post by: EdrickV on November 06, 2002, 03:16:57 pm
Modifying the filenames for loading various things (like the 2_ for high res stuff) is standard procedure for FS2. :)