Hard Light Productions Forums
Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => FS2 Open Coding - The Source Code Project (SCP) => Topic started by: Rampage on October 27, 2002, 07:02:04 pm
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It's pretty self-explanatory. In order to improve the Freespace 2 Source Code, I want to obtain the source code for MODELVIEW32. If you support me, reply with [some] message.
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:wtf:Have you asked the creator for the proggy? It says in the program that he'll help you/give you the code.
EDIT: How does the source for MODELVIEW32 help with the SCP.
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becase it is used to veiw and edit models, wich we currently can't realy do with new data types, like glow points,
if he doesn't want to do the stuff himself it would be nice to have the ability to do it our selves
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Well, e-mail the guy who wrote the program. He should give you the source code. It says so in one of the startup help hints.
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May not be able to release the code for legal reasons.
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Why not? It's his program? Heiko Herrman I think.
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but not all his stuff
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Oh, well, I'll sign:nervous:
]-[ades
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Why dont you send him an e-mail first?
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The source code for PCS is available via CVS, and the latest version of PCS is supposed to include support for glowpoints.
http://sourceforge.net/projects/alliance
With the source code for POFView available, I think combining the two to make a complete replacement for ModelView32 would be a good idea. (And ModelView32 I believe is Visual Basic so if you don't have that, you may not be able to do anything with it.)
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Ok, these error messages (and this resulting double post) are getting annoying. :)
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the POFCS CVS has a version of PCS with properly working GLOW support, and the dots even show up in the preview renderer, albeight primative representations
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I always hated PCS. It was always crashing, and the controls were too hard to use.
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cry about it why dont you - you should have come on here and given me bug reports while it was my main coding project, you should also keep to date on the version [althought the latest is in CVS and im not making a build until i replace the GLUT with SDL and fix taht damn renderer memory leak]
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I didn't say anything 'cause loads of people were already saying what I wanted to address. To many people saying the same thing in terms of errors isn't a good thing usually.
Back on topic, does anybody want to get the source for ModelView32?
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Originally posted by Hades
I didn't say anything 'cause loads of people were already saying what I wanted to address. To many people saying the same thing in terms of errors isn't a good thing usually.
Back on topic, does anybody want to get the source for ModelView32?
Yes.
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Originally posted by mikhael
Yes.
Yes to what? My first, or second paragraph?
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Yes, we want the Modelview source so we can integrate glow point editing, thrusters, dockpoints, paths, and eyepoints. Then we can further integrate PCS into Modelview, including POF2COB and COB2POF, so we will have one fully functional WYSIWYG POF editor.
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Originally posted by Hades
Yes to what? My first, or second paragraph?
Both.
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Originally posted by GalacticEmperor
Yes, we want the Modelview source so we can integrate glow point editing, thrusters, dockpoints, paths, and eyepoints. Then we can further integrate PCS into Modelview, including POF2COB and COB2POF, so we will have one fully functional WYSIWYG POF editor.
An all in one tool for making ships. Maybe somebody who has too much free time could make a real constructor. You could make a .pof, then skin it, and add everything. All in one tool.
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"including POF2COB and COB2POF"
oh kazan is gona tan you're hide for that
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Originally posted by Hades
An all in one tool for making ships. Maybe somebody who has too much free time could make a real constructor. You could make a .pof, then skin it, and add everything. All in one tool.
You're taking my idea for Blender!
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All right! Just a few more people and I can send everyone's name who has replied in that petition e-mail. That is if he still has the source... (Which I think he does.)
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Put me on. I think it would be very useful!
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Who needs a petition? I decided I might as well ask the guy if he would consider releasing the source code to the SCP and mentioned that we were interested in expanding the POF format. This is the response I got.
Subj: RE: ModelView32
Date: 11/6/2002 3:01:40 AM Eastern Standard Time
From: [email protected] (Heiko Herrmann)
To: [email protected]
Hi there,
for my part I would have no problems to release the source code, but I have to ask Garry Knudson if he is okay with it as well, since he wrote the rendering part (I coded the complete UI around it). I will try to contact him and let you know.
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Originally posted by EdrickV
Who needs a petition? I decided I might as well ask the guy if he would consider releasing the source code to the SCP and mentioned that we were interested in expanding the POF format. This is the response I got.
Cool! :cool:
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Yeah, cool :nod:
I hope Garry Knudson will reply yes :p
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I doubt he'll reply at all, he's been out of the loop for quite a while
maybe we can get a pre-compiled lib or something
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Is ModelView OpenGL based?
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Very cool. If I'm not mistaken, Gary made one of the very first POF editors... (I think I still have it around on my hard drive somewhere)... /me wonders off with nostalgia
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FSveiw, wich is what the renderer of MV is baised on
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Originally posted by EdrickV
Subj: RE: ModelView32
Date: 11/6/2002 3:01:40 AM Eastern Standard Time
From: [email protected] (Heiko Herrmann)
To: [email protected]
Hi there,
for my part I would have no problems to release the source code, but I have to ask Garry Knudson if he is okay with it as well, since he wrote the rendering part (I coded the complete UI around it). I will try to contact him and let you know.
W00000000T! ;) Now we can have a TRUE POF constructor suite!
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what's wrong with Kazan's, I have always found it to be ten billion times better than the old cob2fs ever was (well I did find one time it did less of a job, but it was a weird model)
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Kazan's PCS is a good POF editor and IMHO the better POF converter, and it supports the Glowpoints in the newest version, but it's renderer isn't yet equal to ModelView32's. On the other hand, ModelView32 was never finished and there's a lot of normal things it can't do. I think the two are best used together. PCS's renderer uses OpenGL, but I believe ModelView32's uses either DirectDraw or Direct3D. Oh, and ModelView32 isn't a converter so comparing it with cob2fs2/cob2pof is like comparing apples and oranges. :)
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Did Knudson ever reply?
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Not yet.
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I'm growing impatient. Here's my latest (and only) e-mail to Garry Knudson.
E-Mail to Garry Knudson
Dear Garry:
Because of popular request by my fellow Freespace 2 MODders after the release of the Freespace 2 source code, we would require the source code for MODELVIEW32 with its renderer, editor, etc. The request has already been forwarded to Heiko Hermann, and he happily agreed to release it after he receives word from you to go ahead.
One of new features that fans have integrated into Freespace 2 would be glow points for Freespace 2 models. This would require an update to the currently popular (but without graphics support) POF Construction Suite by Derek “Kazan” Meek. MODELVIEW32 would be a perfect specimen to update upon. Newer MODELVIEW32 versions would mean newer versions of Freespace 2.
We terribly need the source code for Descent Manager MODELVIEW32 in order to progress with our projects in Freespace 2 model making. The code is crucial to our progress as a community as well to the development of newer versions of Freespace 2. Please consider our request.
Sincerely,
The Freespace 2 MODders
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Um, what address did you send that to, because the one listed in ModelView32 isn't Garry's.
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I'm telling ya, you're gona find Saquasch before you find Garry Knudson,
it's not even funny how not around he is.
he was hard to get in tuch with back when he was involved in the comunity, he's fallen into a black whole
...what's my point...:doubt:
:wtf:
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Originally posted by EdrickV
Kazan's PCS is a good POF editor and IMHO the better POF converter, and it supports the Glowpoints in the newest version, but it's renderer isn't yet equal to ModelView32's. On the other hand, ModelView32 was never finished and there's a lot of normal things it can't do. I think the two are best used together. PCS's renderer uses OpenGL, but I believe ModelView32's uses either DirectDraw or Direct3D. Oh, and ModelView32 isn't a converter so comparing it with cob2fs2/cob2pof is like comparing apples and oranges. :)
It isn't Direct3D. I know because my Direct3D doesn't work. :(
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Originally posted by EdrickV
Um, what address did you send that to, because the one listed in ModelView32 isn't Garry's.
I got the one off of Freespace-2.com
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MV and FSV are both OGL
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Originally posted by Bobboau
MV and FSV are both OGL
Well, you're right... He's nowhere to be found!
Unknown user: [email protected]
Original message follows.
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Subject: About MODELVIEW32 Source Code
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Dear Garry:
Because of popular request by my fellow Freespace 2 MODders after the
release of the Freespace 2 source code, we would require the source code for
MODELVIEW32 with its renderer, editor, etc. The request has already been
forwarded to Heiko Hermann, and he happily agreed to release it after he
receives word from you to go ahead.
One of new features that fans have integrated into Freespace 2 would be glow
points for Freespace 2 models. This would require an update to the
currently popular (but without graphics support) POF Construction Suite by
Derek "Kazan" Meek. MODELVIEW32 would be a perfect specimen to update upon.
Newer MODELVIEW32 versions would mean newer versions of Freespace 2.
We terribly need the source code for Descent Manager MODELVIEW32 in order to
progress with our projects in Freespace 2 model making. The code is crucial
to our progress as a community as well to the development of newer versions
of Freespace 2. Please consider our request.
Sincerely,
The Freespace 2 MODders
Maybe you guys contact Heiko Hermann again and see what he has to say.
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I'm waiting for him to get back to me. If all else fails, maybe he would release his UI code but without the renderer. (With access to the UI and FS2 source code we could try to rewrite it to use the same rendering system that POFView uses.) Either way, we still have PCS. (And usually when I have a problem with PCS, it's due to something in the model that FS2 doesn't like either. Like a single object model with over 1100 verts.)
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What frustrates me is that models that convert fine with COB2FS2 cause PCS to crash.
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maybe we can get the sorce for the renderer put into a lib and have some header files that would define the max's and have the rest of it as seperate
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Originally posted by GalacticEmperor
What frustrates me is that models that convert fine with COB2FS2 cause PCS to crash.
In my experience, aside from models that give the "you haven't grouped these objects" message, those models usually crash FRED2/FS2 though. The two programs apparently use different methods of converting. (PCS uses lights to help define the hierarchy while Cob2FS2 doesn't seem to need them.) And in models where you are going to be making all the LoDs, turrets, and maybe debris, for testing it would be a good idea to just convert LoD1 and maybe the turrets. (With a proper hierarchy.)
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Originally posted by EdrickV
The source code for PCS is available via CVS, and the latest version of PCS is supposed to include support for glowpoints.
http://sourceforge.net/projects/alliance
With the source code for POFView available, I think combining the two to make a complete replacement for ModelView32 would be a good idea. (And ModelView32 I believe is Visual Basic so if you don't have that, you may not be able to do anything with it.)
POF Constructor suite is typical Kazan: complex, and hard-to-understand. MODVIEW32 is better.
But I agree, you should ask him first.
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Someone should start drafting a design document for the big combined modelview/PCS program - you know, just so we can all know what's supposed to be in it, what we're taking from where and what we want to make ourselves. Just a thought.
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I just e-mailed Mr. Hermann again. Hope that he'll give me some sort of response.
Dear Heiko Hermann:
The Freespace 2 community has been eagerly waiting for a newer, better POF editing program. With the FS2 source code in full bloom, we have realized that we¡¦re missing something: a newer version of Modelview32. I have e-mailed Mr. Knudson for the renderer portion of the source code, but he has yet to get back to me. (It has been about a month.) We cannot wait any longer. Mr. Hermann, please consider releasing the source code for ModelView32, either the entire source or the non-renderer source. I fear that Knudson isn¡¦t in the community anymore. ƒ¼
Please offer us your much-needed assistance!
Sincerely,
Rampage
On Behalf of the Freespace Community
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I got the reply from Heiko Hermann. It sounds - promising!
Reply from Heiko Hermann
Hi there,
I have a suggestion: I'll want to look over the code once again, fix some things on it and tidy it up a little and write a little overview over the code, and release it then. I hope I have done it till Monday although I can't promise. Sounds good?
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Wooohoo
:yes: :yes: :yes:
Very promising :D
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Another e-mail:
From Heiko Herrmann
Here is the plan,
I am working fully on a Beta 05 release which will hopefully be done on this Monday. It has lots of new big features (texture viewer, COB importer, advanced error handling, task panes, to name a few) which I started once beginning of this year and now have finished. Along with this release the source code will be made public.
By the way, I read in some forum that somebody believed MODELVIEW32 was written in Visual Basic. Most likely he thought that since a lot of older Descent Manager modules were actually written in Visual Basic. MODELVIEW32 however is 100% MS Visual C++. Just wanted to let ya know :)...
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YAHOOO! This will make an excellent Christmas present from him!
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The source code: http://www.descent-network.com/cgi-bin/download.cgi?file=/ddn/sources/modelview/modv32b5src.exe&size=1064&desc=MODELVIEW32_Source
Mr. Herrmann's conditions:
--Rename--
If it is really necessary... (as long as the original title + my name in
the credits is written somewhere).
--Take away non-FS2 code--
I have mixed feelings with that one. I would rather love if people would
try to keep the D2/D3 parts running, even when they are not adding any
new features to that part :)... But if it is necessary to drop that
stuff out out of some good reason, I will okay with that as well. I just
don't see the point ;)...
--Integrate with another program--
No problem with that one, however I guess it is quite a lot of work, if
the other program is not programmed with the MFC doc-view model and at
least a *little* similar in how the code was done. But if someone wants
to give it a try it is totally fine with me :)...
What I do want however is that it is kept open-source. So that other
people can re-check in how changes and new features are done. And maybe
I'll add stuff that I love in into a later version of the original
MODELVIEW32 (giving credits of course to the original contributors and
re-releasing the new source code with it), who knows :).
Merry Christmas from Heiko Herrmann!
NOTE: There was another topic posted named: "I'm So Bored!" about the same thing. It's a bit inconspicuous so I'm posting it here again.
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RRR4444WWWT.
This is very good!:nod: :yes:
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Paths! Dockpoints! Thrusters! Eyepoints! Yaaaah!:eek: