Hard Light Productions Forums
General FreeSpace => FreeSpace Discussion => Topic started by: Sandwich on October 29, 2002, 09:25:33 pm
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http://www.hard-light.net/vwbb/showthread.php?threadid=7632
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damn...
too bad he's 3 years too late.
damn..
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Good Lord. :eek2: Is... How... Can it... Why?
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I'm perplexed as well... I really don't know what to make of that. But with the source running around and the fact that half of the mods being developed require some form of source change (even if it's DTP's just for more ships.tbl entries) the legal complications could be horrendous.
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This deserves a combination of
:confused: :eek2: :( (http://dynamic4.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/eek.gif) (http://dynamic4.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/jaw.gif)
:mad:
Well, they should forward this to THQ and see if it'll provide any incentive to purchase the FS rights. Give special emphasis to the fact that Interplay is going down the toilet.
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Read it again. He already tried THQ and they had no idea what FS even was.
Quote:
"They pointed me to THQ who were equally confused about the product as well. The person I spoke to was part of the executive staff and said they had never even heard of FS2."
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"They pointed me to THQ who were equally confused about the product as well. The person I spoke to was part of the executive staff and said they had never even heard of FS2."
:wtf:
idiots..
well what are we going to do for this guy? this could be our chance.
For the record, i don't know if i agree with selling the campaigns.. i'd love the money, but i would sure be pissed if i heard that one day say inferno, a campaign i am looking forward to so much, i now have to pay 15 - 20 bucks to play it after being a member of the community and whatching it grow for so long.
The publicity and ability to show off your work would be great though, maybe just marketing it for free or something.. i dunno, this isn't exactly my expertise ...
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What about the folks who submitted missions for Silent Threat? Were they compensated in any way? Were the missions avaliable for free elsewhere? These are similar circumstances; except it's not Volition doing it. :nervous:
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Well, the guy could possibly take over selling the original retail version, but our modifications to the source code cannot be sold in anyway, of course.
For non-SCP-dependent mods, campaigns, etc., the possibility exists for them to be included on such a CD while still being available for free download. In would simply have to be part of the legal stipulations. Then, those whose mods found their way onto the CD could receive remuneration for any versions sold as CDs, while still continuing to function as we are now. It'd just be a nice bonus for us (and a way to milk all the newbies!)
Still, I'm not going to hold my breath on this one. Someone at VW directed him to Interplay, so there is no further need for our involvment unless he comes back.
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if he plans to go through with this, then there will be cartloads of legal issues, especially considering that the FS2 rights are owned by Intercrap, who cannot even deal with a freeware MVE encoder.
And yes, I'd hate to buy OTT for money (though I'd do it).
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I'm sorry but this is just silly. Its not practical. Nice idea from the guy but totally unworkable.
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Inter**** is too dang stupid. If they actually advertised fs2, or even let :v: make fs3, they might get their head out of the toilet.
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IMO about selling campaigns. I think it'd a cool idea. But about the legal stuff. I could just say that I'm charging you for the CD, s + h, and any documantion that goes with it. While not charging you for the campaign. Simple. This is what the Linux people did/still do with thier software when selling it at Wal-Mart or some other retail store.
(from VWBB)
I haven't read this whole thread but the pay to all the people involved with the mod is simple. Give each person a copy and then they can sell it where they live. This gives each person a share of the profits (provided they want to sell it and do) and you don't have to work with other nasty stuff if one person was in charge of the money.
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Hmmm... all sounds very dubious to me.
Cetainly I doupt theres any money to be made unless you are a the top of this scheme where persumably drmedia wants to be.
It would be a shame if you had to buy FS2 MOD's, a counterstrike system would be nice. Where you can pay for a hardcopy or download it for free.
If the SCP could get MOD's working off the demo data then that could really help the legal situation. Although the SCP exe cant be sold of course.
Do we have enough finished material to sell?
If succesful this could a way to boost our community, however I suspect this might be some kind of scam.
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:shaking: For some reason that guy sickens me. I don't know what it is though. Would be a good advisation to keep an eye on him. If some of the previous assumptions made were true then I do not like this idea at all.
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Who is this guy? Do we know anything else about him?
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Read it again. He already tried THQ and they had no idea what FS even was.
Quote:
"They pointed me to THQ who were equally confused about the product as well. The person I spoke to was part of the executive staff and said they had never even heard of FS2."
I meant that Volition should go to THQ. Does anyone from :v: read these forums? They ought to bring this to THQ's attention and say, this is our project, it has a huge potential market, we're really excited to do FS3 but we have the small problem of Interplay owning the rights; could you purchase them for us.
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'E's a suit- a low-level one at that. Volition wouldn't touch him with a ten foot pole, and neither would any other sensible group of people looking for a marketer. Don't lay credence on him just 'cos someone got him the link to FSW.
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It all looks a bit off to me. It does seem a good idea in theory, but when you take a closer look at it, well I'm not so sure. I don't know much about that kind of stuff, but as Knight Templar said, it would suck to have to pay for the campaigns. Something's just not right with the whole idea.
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Many people have contributed by working on the SCP or individual missions/campaigns/models/voices/music/weaps, ect... SO the legal issues and payment distribution is unimaginable, FORGET it!
However by taking these and using them AS a marketing tool instead of the project itself it may be possible to raise capital for FS3...
Buying the rights for FS2 is step one. then completing the SCP and cutscene additions all the models-weapons developments and background changes (possible interface stuff) can all be directed for FS3 (one main storyline would have to be voted and agreed upon to continue the legacy)...
I hope this could come to pass but, probably not :(
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I, personally, hate this idea. The whole reason V included FRED was to encourage people to make MODs for other people for free. If we let this suit just waltz in and market our material,(that we never intended to sell anyway) we might as well kiss the community as we know it goodbye. It seems to me that the con's outweigh the pro's. Getting paid for a MOD that i made sounds good but just as soon as one person gets paid, another person wants in on it, and then fights break out over money and the whole MODing experience is ruined forever.
I am totally against the idea.
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I'm not completely against the idea. If the whole community worked together to create an expansion pack, and then sold it, that would be okay. But the campaigns that are for the community, if they ever get sold; I'm taking down the TVWP, all its stuff, and leaving the community.
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yes, but selling something, as it was posted before, how do you decide what deserves what pay? They all have their varying levels of work and skill.. but there is so much complication.. i don't even think it would happen if we wanted it to.
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I'm pretty suspicious of this. He reminds me of Ascraeus, who, after getting everyone's hopes up over FS2.9, saying that he had talked with Volition employees for a job interview, just disappeared.
I'm further put off by:
I am in a unique position to put just about whatever tpyr of product on TV that I want...Even none gamers were blown away by its techical merit and story writers in my field have drooled over the overall idea of it...
(Both of these sentences are too long to be spoken aloud without sounding odd)
I want to work with a group pf people on putting a FS2 game and series of additional campaigns on a disc and market it in an infomercial format...Now many of you who have never been exposed to that level of marketing may not believe that products in retail require way to much marketing to be very effective...
"Can someone help me find the person or prsons responsible for making anykind of decisions concerning FS2 and the ability to market the product." (This begins a question, but ends with a period?)
I'd like to get some serious help on this as I truly believe ther is a huge untapped market for his product as well as additional works from many of you.
There are a number of spelling mistakes in the above, and quite a bit of the post is run-on sentences...something I think anyone doing advertising would avoid like the plague.
Edit: drmedia posted this in a campaign forum instead of a Freespace 2 forum or contacting the webmaster of either HLP or VW. Pretty odd, if you ask me.
Edit 2: If I see a sample of this guy's work, which supposedly got over 1,800,000 callers, I'll be a lot less suspicious.
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I have had a little chat we this guy and its all very interesting but in my opinion his projected sales figures are way too high, for a 3 year old PC game (smaller marker) for a genre that doesnt sell well just doesnt seem right.
However, if he is able to get the rights (who knows) then I believe there is a danger, would he be able to prevent work on the SCP because he owns the code? Or would the SCP continue and fade out because we dont want to do loads of hard work and line someone elses pockets.
Either way this would hurt the MOD's because the engine wont adapt to their needs.
Its a nasty world and when something seems to good to be true, it just about always is.
However if Im wrong, I will be ready to help stear this in a positive direction.
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There are a number of spelling mistakes in the above, and quite a bit of the post is run-on sentences...something I think anyone doing advertising would avoid like the plague.
Edit: drmedia posted this in a campaign forum instead of a Freespace 2 forum or contacting the webmaster of either HLP or VW. Pretty odd, if you ask me.
Edit 2: If I see a sample of this guy's work, which supposedly got over 1,800,000 callers, I'll be a lot less suspicious.
Yes, I am also doubtful of this whole affair, and as you said, both the post and method of contact are suggestive; it is not so much the idea as the guy himself that I find strange. (for all we know, it could just be one of the numerous outcasts from squadwar wanting to mess up the community again) We should ask for more information about him and some samples of his work, but I would definitely remain wary.
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the more i look at this, the more skeptical i become
remember this is the internet where everything is true and everything is false.
The only way i would pay for a campiagn is if i had a 56k and i couldn't download a campaign, i would have fileplanet or someone burn it to a cd and ship it to me.
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Okay, leave the missions and mods out of it for now. What if this guy just wants to revitalize the sales of FS2 by putting it on an infomercial? Give it the marketing chance it never had?
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Well the guy seems to be trying to get the rights to FS2 so I guess if we like it or not we cant do anything but see if he is successful.
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why don't someone get this bad boy on ICQ or somethin' and ralk to him. See if he's for real and take it from there.
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Originally posted by Knight Templar
why don't someone get this bad boy on ICQ or somethin' and ralk to him. See if he's for real and take it from there.
:nod:
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Originally muttered by me
and ralk to him.
roinks raggy, rI rorgot row ro rype roday!
:p
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Originally posted by Knight Templar
why don't someone get this bad boy on ICQ or somethin' and ralk to him. See if he's for real and take it from there.
How do you determine that?
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It doesn't really matter... i just think we need to know if he is for real and try to explain to him our position. I think we all wouldn't mind makin some money offa our campaigns, but that's deffinitly not why we make them, and none of us would want to pay 20 bucks or whatever to play Machina Terra or whatever.
I think re-marketing FS2 might be a good idea, if he can get ahold of it. But i don't know where i stand on the issue of selling our campaigns. Maybe selling them to the general public or something but all community members get in for free. Although thats not really fair.. i don't know.
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I am TOTALLY AGAINST the idea of selling our campaigns. Sure, I wouldn't mind making some money off DatDB, God knows, but something about drmedia just seems WAY off.
drmedia claims to be an advertising guy, but his spelling mistakes in his post make me REALLY suspicious; everyone who works in advertising needs a better grasp of English grammar than THAT.
drmedia is probably some pre-pubescent troll somewhere trying to have some fun at our expense by using a new take on the FS3 topic. I HIGHLY doubt this guy is who he says he is. Even if he is legit, there are WAY too many legal issues to deal with. Besides, NONE of the user-made campaigns, while they may come close, don't equal the quality of the original campaign, at least, not enough so that I would shell out money for them.
I say we ignore this bastard until he proves who he says he is. Until then, we keep doing what we've always been doing, because anything else could destroy this community and we've all invested too much time for that to happen.
I wouldn't trust any of this any farther than I could throw a 1500 page legal brief.
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Originally posted by Su-tehp
I wouldn't trust any of this any farther than I could throw a 1500 page legal brief.
Uphill or downhill? :wtf:
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i always took it to mean on a flat area.. and that he can't throw it very far.. so...
yeah
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Correct Su-tehp. I wouldn't trust this guy worth **** until he proved himself. Has he even said anything lately? He only had two or three posts.
I hereby declare this guy a troll, a liar, and a big f*ckin' bastard until he can prove himself. My rules, Guilty until proven innocent.
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Originally posted by Su-tehp
I wouldn't trust any of this any farther than I could throw a 1500 page legal brief.
Originally posted by Sandwich
Uphill or downhill? :wtf:
KT's right, I was thinking of a flat surface, not uphill or downhill. If it was uphill, the 1500 page brief wouldn't travel very far, regardless. And if I tried to throw it downhill, chances are with my luck, it would likely hit a passerby in the head and kill him (1500 page legal briefs are HEAVY!), which would make his family sue me for a wrongful death, in which case, I would likely lose my legal license and also be out my entire life's savings because I'd have to pay the punitive damages AND I'd still have to deal with a mountain of law school loans which I no longer have any chance of paying off because I lost the right to practice law because of the wrongful death suit.
Needless to say, 1500 page legal briefs and hilly terrain don't mix. :wtf: :nervous: :D
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and if you threw it uphill, the book would most likely slam back on your head.
Kinda suicide then.
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Back to the money.
What I was meaning earlier is that I being part of a MOD team get a copy (downloaded or by mail with the idea below) of the campaign. And then I can sell it to ppl in my area. This would apply to everyone that is with the MOD. Of course there would be a download version for free. But what if they don't want to download it? Something like what M$ has at their sites with their software (i.e. Internet Explorer) you can download it for free or you can order a copy on disk and pay for it.
I am a 56Ker. I could never download all the stuff for the campaign. So my next option would be to find a friend who has broadband. But if I can't then I'd need to "order" it. Now the guy who burns the disk to mail it to me will be out of $5-$10 depending on what he uses to send the disk in. So I could just pay him what it costed to send the campaign and there you have it.
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Originally posted by HotSnoJ
I am a 56Ker. I could never download all the stuff for the campaign.
Large Download Solutions:
1. Get GetRight. (www.getright.com) Lets you pause and resume downloads. Can download huge files over the space of several days. Can also do things like go offline/shut your computer down at specific times and/or when it's done downloading. Very handy. Not all servers support pausing and resuming downloads. (GeoCities doesn't.)
2. Let your computer download files overnight or while you are away from it and/or doing other things. (Like buying food, going shopping at the local mall, doing 3D modeling, playing FS2, etc. This idea works particularly well with GetRight.
3. Get broadband. Not always an option, but the coolest one if you can do it. :)
I use a 56k modem. Worse yet, I use a 56k modem with AOL. And I've regularly downloaded 100MB+ files. :) (While most of those files weren't downloaded by GetRight, they were downloaded by a program that also supports pausing and resuming downloads. And I'd have used GetRight if I could have.)
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A couple things wrong with some of those suggestions.
1. We only have one phone line. I would work at night but how would I explain to my mom what it is for?
2. I'm impatiant.
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Originally posted by HotSnoJ
A couple things wrong with some of those suggestions.
1. We only have one phone line. I would work at night but how would I explain to my mom what it is for?
I always hated that. I used to use AOL, and I had a limit of one hour.
:sigh:
But my parents got tired of the internet being slow, so we got an 11mbps cable modem. Ahhhh..heaven.
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Originally posted by HotSnoJ
A couple things wrong with some of those suggestions.
1. We only have one phone line. I would work at night but how would I explain to my mom what it is for?
Try saying this - "Hey Mum, you know that game I'm always playing? I'm downloading some **** for it tonight."
And if she asks what say 'A dynamic interspatial multi branching series of plausibly linked scenarios and game additions and/or modifications.' or any other combination of large polysyllabic words. She'll soon lose interest and flaze over, and then say "Whatever".
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Originally posted by GalacticEmperor
What about the folks who submitted missions for Silent Threat? Were they compensated in any way? Were the missions avaliable for free elsewhere? These are similar circumstances; except it's not Volition doing it. :nervous:
All those who submitted missions were given the chance to pick up ST for free, so says Adam Pletcher.
....Hades, that connection would make a really nice stand alone server in PXO, It could host a lot of those new missions that don't need mods be helluh popular lol
Suuuuuuuuuuu------------ I need to have a word with you an' stuff!! you got email anymore buddy? (I'm still at [email protected]) O.o
In theory, this stuff is possible to do, Plenty of other games have done it and survived via it, however more of them went legally through the company (who didn't have copywrite issues with publishers...) that developed it, it may take somework, but in theory, you could do it...
Infact, between Su and I we could probably do it...it'd just take our souls if we went it alone :P
My business studies college background can see pretty much how it could be done, just that I'd probably need to visit Interplay myself, rather then the lazy sob phonecall/email...
You'd also need to draw up a financial case to present to the company....interplay would probably demand at least 51% of the profits (same as they would rights to the missions) etc..
...Hmm, the more I think about this the easier it seems... O.o
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QD, you can e-mail me at [email protected]
Is there something in particular you wanted to discuss, QD?
I just want to say that nowadays, I'm EXTREMELY busy, what with this being my third year of law school, having to take the MPRE (Ethic portion of the Bar Exam) in less than a week AND scripting DatDB in my (limited) leisure time.
But, yeah, QD, we can talk. What do you wanna know? :)
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Space Above and Beyond music...
:drevil:
wont take long, I'm just after a few song names 'n' stuff, "hey ho lets go" ...there's another version of that done by ramones, but I was after the one they played on the show, you're just about the only person I know that might know anythin ;)
I'll mail ya later (but I got the main theme at least...)
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I only skimmed through the thread but I wanted to make a point which may or may not have been made...
I believe that is was mentioned for some game (not fs2) that the missions and modifications to a game all belonged to the developer/publisher and that any the ability to mod was a 'priveledge' and the publishers could take it away at any time and freely distribute the content...
I don't remember if this was the exact case with the game or the game it concerned but I think we should get it cleared up if we can actually complain about payment/distribution before ranting about whether we should allow it.
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Why don't whe all raise money....like 10 bucks each perso and mayby then whe can buy the rights for fs and give them to :v:......just a idea:D
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There is a section in the FS2 license that lets you make copies for friends (but I would buy it new anyway) and [V] have released the source code for FS2, so we basically have free access to Freespace 2. Nobody can claim legal ownership on mods that are made and also, how could any open source game be sold for profit? The only case that I would ever pay for mods is for Fileplanet to burn them on a disc, as I have a 56k modem and my mum would kill me for running up a £200 phone bill (I am on this forum, and the VWBB as BananaOfTheNight at college, so I can't download files here)
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i like the ideae of campaigns burnton disc and sent to you, but campaings should always be downloadable for free. but you coulod do a sort of re-relase of FS2,FS1,silent threat, and a couple of campaings for both FS1andFS2 in a big colection box. but for drmedia himself, i doubt that he's for real,and i will stay doubtding till he as the rights! anyway i think that those rights should be with :V: and NOT with this guy. about the ideae of a donating action for the rights, GREAT IDEA!, just one thing, dunno how to get everyone to donate!
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Isn't anyone else bemused by the very idea of an infomercial for a PC game? :wtf:
I can see it now...
Image of inhumanly-smiling infomercial dude randomly waving joystick around and mashing keys while FS2 plays.
"Isn't this great Sally?!"
"It sure is Jim! A game this great must be really expensive!"
"Not at all!"
yadda yadda yadda...
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Originally posted by kasperl
i like the ideae of campaigns burnton disc and sent to you, but campaings should always be downloadable for free. but you coulod do a sort of re-relase of FS2,FS1,silent threat, and a couple of campaings for both FS1andFS2 in a big colection box. but for drmedia himself, i doubt that he's for real,and i will stay doubtding till he as the rights! anyway i think that those rights should be with :V: and NOT with this guy. about the ideae of a donating action for the rights, GREAT IDEA!, just one thing, dunno how to get everyone to donate!
FS1+Silent Threat is still available in stores. :)
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Originally posted by ZylonBane
Isn't anyone else bemused by the very idea of an infomercial for a PC game? :wtf:
I can see it now...
Image of inhumanly-smiling infomercial dude randomly waving joystick around and mashing keys while FS2 plays.
"Isn't this great Sally?!"
"It sure is Jim! A game this great must be really expensive!"
"Not at all!"
yadda yadda yadda...
:lol: