Hard Light Productions Forums
General FreeSpace => FreeSpace Discussion => Topic started by: diamondgeezer on November 05, 2002, 06:11:56 pm
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OK - this purely for the thingy I'm doing. I don't mean for the outcome of this to affect anyone else's work in a way they don't want to, cos I know this debate has gotten quite heated in the past.
The thing I'm writing is all about atmosphere. There are some serious stretches without fighting, so atmosphere and tension building are all important. Therefore, I want to include some 'strong' language in there, to make it clear that these guys are really scared, etc. I'm already putting in milder swearing in and issuing the project with a warning (so if anyone's offended it's not my fault), and basically it's all about the inclusion of that one short but very vulgar word:
[size=10][glow=red]****[/size][/glow]
:D Sorry...
Anyways, you've seen the poll. Vote, then post your thoughts.
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Eh, I don't give a ****. :p
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People swear in real life, I know I would if stuff that happens to those pilots happen to me. Infact FS2 itself has made me swear quite a few times anyway.
"DIVE! DIVE! DIVE!", ****!
If anyone doupts this is a good idea watch early B5 episodes when they had to say 'nuts' instead, it was just really silly.
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Meh... FS2 is rated Teen. I think it should stay that way. :p
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Originally posted by RandomTiger
"DIVE! DIVE! DIVE!", ****!
You sort of contradict yourself... that "dive!" moment was by far the most exhilirating moment in FS2, yet they pulled it off without swearing. While I don't swear myself, I don't have all that much of a problem with others swearing... but there are certain things that do make me cringe to hear in the presence of others, such as the "F" word, and most vulgar sexual references. I'd say to draw the line at "sh*t", "d*mnit", and "S.O.B.", if you absolutely must.
Just remember that tone of voice conveys so much more than a few curses... :nod:
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I don't mind swearing that much. I do swear, but not as much as I used to. Most of the time I'll use milder words, or do this: f*ck. Just so people know what I'm saying, they know I'm pissed, and I haven't actually said it. Just suggested it.
As for saying wordy dirties. During Freespace2, football, and after I get loads of homework ( More than usual ) In every subject, when something bad happens ( I play violin, and I have dropped my bow and broken it-it was wooden-).
But I don't swear for the heck of it. Go ahead, put it in. People are always looking for realism.
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****it.. they are scared to the point where they are ****ting their pants or whatever.. then yes.
There is swearing in my thingy. Milatary people swear. If anything, tv and popular war movies have taught us that.
They only convey "strong" feelings of something IMO.
It still doesn't make much sense to me that we would have words in a spoken (not to mention written) language that we aren't supposed to say..
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Try replasing words with other words. Fudge, Carp, Mitch all work well.:p
OT: Why does every one I know play football? (points at Hades)
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Fudge, Carp, Mitch all work well.
:WTF:
ick, i'd hate to see that in a campaign.
why do people you know play football? because it owns.
Hades you Kanook?
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Eh, I don't give a ****. :p
Same here, but when you see "****" in every other message it starts to look stupid. :p No need to avoid curse words, but don't just put them in for their own sake either. :D
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Putting curses into every second sentence would be stupid. It has to fit the situation.
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unfortunately, I have seen missions that have exactly that. :p
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:ick
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Originally posted by Shrike
Putting curses into every second sentence would be stupid. It has to fit the situation.
yup. Do and don't overdo. Besides, make it characteristic. There could be persons, who by principle don't swear, etc.
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Wow, a split vote. Didn't see that one comming :lol:
In one major respect, you guys are quite right - I'd never have characters effin' and blindin' just for the hell of it. But if it makes a situation more believable... surely I should do it? For example, let's all take a moment to remember Private Hudson:
The sarge is gone, let's get the fudge out of here!
or
That's just fartin' A man. Now what the heck are we supposed to do?
and lastly
Die mother-lovers! Oh, you want some too? Come on, you fuggers!
You get the idea. It's just not the same without that word...
Another option which I should have included was to have two releases of the voice pack and missions - one censored, one not. Wouldn't be too much hassle.
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One of the characters in MT is going to be Pilot Hudson. Guess how he talks. :D
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One my of pilots... well, anybody see Ghosts of Mars? Remember the character played by Jason Statham?
I'm laying claim to creating the first foul-mouthed cockney fighter pilot in the GTVA fleet ;7
Voicing him over is going to be a challenge, but fun ;7
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You want to use words to convey feelings and/or emphasis? Be creative. There are many words that, when put together, can be, IMHO, better then the regular 4 letter words we all know. To quote an example or two from some of Anne McCaffrey's books:
"Rotoscoped, animated bastard from a bad, grade-D psycho-horror flick--in 2D!" from The Ship Errant
"..the son of a scabrous tarantula had stolen La Pobrecita." from Power Lines
"...the vomitus spewings of an excrement-devouring long-extinct reptile which would eat it's own mother without shame or serious second contemplation..." from Power Lines
:devil:
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Well that'd work with comedy foreginers, like the French guys in Holy Grail, but since english appears to be the standard lingo of the GTVA I'm not trying anything like that.
Look, I'm a very polite dude in Real Life. I cringe and reprimand my friends when they deploy the ole' foul and abusive in public, where little old ladies or ickle chidlers might hear. But when I'm doing the whole late-night, hard core action/sci-fi thing I feel that a character being set upon by hordes of beasties from the Dungeon Dimensions is entitled to let loose with a few curses, to really let us know how terrified he or she is :nod:
'Course, some of us play games during the day, with our dear ole mothers sat in the same room, so they can't have wingmen *****in' and cussin' the whole time. Therefore, I'm leaning towards a double release - one censored, and one un-censored but carrying a warning. Discuss.
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Foreginers?? Aside from "Rotoscoped" which I think is made up and "La Pobrecita" which is a girl's name, those are all english words. And let's not forget the mildly famous "Frack" and "Feldergarb" from a certain 80's TV show that actually has an FS2 MOD. :) In FS2's timeline, it's likely slag terms will be very different anyways.
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Yes, I mean foreigners in an engrish sense. Badly translated swearage, sort of thing. The stuff you quote is funnier than it is atmospheric.
Anyone read 'Stark'? Ben Elton points out that human beings, no matter how fluent they are, cannot learn to swear effectively in another language.
Oh, and prolly right about the slang, but I'm keeping it modern - let's look again at the 'Aliens' example here. Also, I'm going to have to make a disclaimer along the lines of "if you don't understand the jokes, it's cos you're foreign. Don't worry about it". Very much an english sense of humour, even though most of the characters remain Merry Cans.
Well, Aldo liked it, anyway ;)
BTW, let's steer clear of potential derailment, yes?
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Originally posted by EdrickV
You want to use words to convey feelings and/or emphasis? Be creative. There are many words that, when put together, can be, IMHO, better then the regular 4 letter words we all know. To quote an example or two from some of Anne McCaffrey's books:
"Rotoscoped, animated bastard from a bad, grade-D psycho-horror flick--in 2D!" from The Ship Errant
"..the son of a scabrous tarantula had stolen La Pobrecita." from Power Lines
"...the vomitus spewings of an excrement-devouring long-extinct reptile which would eat it's own mother without shame or serious second contemplation..." from Power Lines
:devil:
Better? I think not. Curse words are meant to be crude, vulgar, and express sentiment. What feels better when you say it? 'Oh, poo' or 'Oh, ****'? Those kind of overly clever replacements don't reflect, IMO, how people react in real life. Or if they do, it's not how they react when under pressure. Would you go on about how something spews excrement from all it's bodily orifices when you're mad, or just say '**** it!'
Remember, it should be in the heat of the moment, when you don't have time to make up an nice, pretty, intricate sentence.
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I try to avoid foul language whenever possible, of any kind. Even the popularly termed "mild" inappropriate language such as damn, which has been cliched so much that it has lost the force of its primary meaning. Yes, this definitely causes a problem in missions where it seems to be unavoidable - the situation often seems to demand it. But if you examine the situation carefully, you can often figure out a way around it, either by using different language or by rewriting the dialogue.
As has been mentioned, it would have been very easy to start out Into the Lion's Den by having somebody yell "@#%&@!#%&* get out of the way!" Instead, they changed it to Dive, Dive, Dive, which was much more descriptive and perhaps also more dramatically effective. If you think about it long enough, you'll usually see a way around it.
*If* those options have been exhausted, then I think foul language is appropriate in rare occasions. For example, if the Lucifer shows up and nukes Earth, it would be appropriate for a pilot to let out a stunned curse - it wouldn't be realistic otherwise, and it would be quite powerful because it was never used elsewhere. But using foul language simply because another ship collided with you is not really appropriate, IMHO.
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Originally posted by Shrike
Remember, it should be in the heat of the moment, when you don't have time to make up an nice, pretty, intricate sentence.
There are some serious stretches without fighting, so atmosphere and tension building are all important.
I'm not talking about stuff in the middle of combat, and those were the first examples that I thought of, not necessarily the best. (And in context, those three do work well IMHO, and apparently in the opinion of a UK writer, from the country that created English. :) )
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Originally posted by Goober5000
As has been mentioned, it would have been very easy to start out Into the Lion's Den by having somebody yell "@#%&@!#%&* get out of the way!" Instead, they changed it to Dive, Dive, Dive, which was much more descriptive and perhaps also more dramatically effective. If you think about it long enough, you'll usually see a way around it.
See, but I could just as easily see them going "DIVE DIVE DIVE!" as they react professionally to the crisis, then when the crisis is passed "****, that was close."
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Originally posted by GalacticEmperor
Meh... FS2 is rated Teen. I think it should stay that way. :p
Hmmm... Sandwich has me almost convinced to switch sides on this though on an interesting side note I should point out that FS1 makes use of a swear in one of the cut scenes, actually I seem to remember being quite surprised.
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Another example to consider: In Tiberian Sun Firestorm, you take a GDI bloke aorund warning villages about CABAL. The little dude you control use the word 'bastard' twice when it quite plainly isn't needed, and it annoys the hell out of me since it's blatantly there for the sake of swearage :no:
What do you mean, I'm the only one who played TibSun? Oh, screw the whole bloody thing, see if I care... :p
My desire to put swearing in... OK, I'm guessing not too many of you crazy (but loveable) foreign types saw Lock Stock or Snatch, or similar London ganster films? That's the sort of thing I'm aiming for - trying to use strong language as part of clever dialog. Example:
What do you mean what are they armed with? Bad breath? Harsh language? Guns, you tit!
OK, so 'tit' isn't a great example of a swear word, but you get the idea... see, I'm a foul-mouthed cockney meself, and and I'm basically just writing what I think...
I have, so far, managed to either avoid old Mr F completely, or substitute him for something less 'offensive'. But I reach the stage where nothing else works. I mean, you've had a hard day dealing with wierdness and creepy stuff, and then you've got some huge great unknown thingy in front of you, and you say to the rest of the squad "what... but... what the fcuk is that?" (note, the pilot pronounces the stress on the swear word, to indicate the sense of :wtf: and prolly anxiety that he feels). 'Hell' just doesn't work as well. 'Flip' is worse. 'Poo' is right out of the question :nod:
This is proving to be a most useful mass debate (damn I'm funny). Carry on :)
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Originally posted by Shrike
Putting curses into every second sentence would be stupid. It has to fit the situation.
Aha! But you're not Scottish.... we have probably the best swearers in the world. You're not heard a good swearing session till you've sat next a 40 year old man at a football match, pouring obscenties in between mouthfulls of pie and bovril. Or for that matter, me on a footbal pitch.
Besides which, i've tried voice acting. and I can't do it without the urge to chuck in a dirty word somewhere. Because I'd swear in the same situation. A lot.
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Oh yes, I swear conversationally a lot in real life as well. Probably not as much as said 40-year-old scott, but still. I'd be cursing at the Shivans.
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One thing to remember is that the pilot is GTVA Navy flyer, and, IIRC, most naval fliers try to refrain from placing vulgarities into the official record of their missions.
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I personally have not needed to use any profanity my missions so far, but that is because your wingmen are mostly vasudans in those and I guess the translators would sound strange conveying strong emotional swings. Still, I would not mind seeing it in other missions as long as it is used in appropriate places.
Another example to consider: In Tiberian Sun Firestorm, you take a GDI bloke aorund warning villages about CABAL. The little dude you control use the word 'bastard' twice when it quite plainly isn't needed, and it annoys the hell out of me since it's blatantly there for the sake of swearage :no:
:lol: I think that guy is supposed to be you. :D
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Elaborating on my last post; FS1 has the words 'hell' 'damn' and 'bastard' used in appropriate contexts, and that works fine for me. What I'd like you to keep in mind is that profanities don't always add to the game (there are other ways to convey emotion) but sometimes spoil an otherwise fun experience. That's why when Nintendo ported Tony Hawk, they removed the songs with objectionable lyrics from the soundtrack.
Another thing: if I'm playing a game, I'm not actually killing people, it's a simulation. But if people start swearing, that's REAL swearing, and I take offense to that. So I play UT and have no problems with taking someone's head off with a Ripper, but I turn off 'Mature Taunts' because I don't want the computer telling me to suck it's ****.
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UT? Mebbe I'm mistaken, but as far as I can remember the strongest word it uses is '*****' (or 'beeeyatch', if you prefer)
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"Rotoscoped" is a real word. Look it up.
Originally posted by Liberator
One thing to remember is that the pilot is GTVA Navy flyer, and, IIRC, most naval fliers try to refrain from placing vulgarities into the official record of their missions.
Funny, when I was in the US Navy supporting antisub flight crews, I seem to recall catching a hell of a lot of profanity coming across the secure voice circuits. Now in the official military text message traffic, that's something different. :D
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Originally posted by Thor
OT: Why does every one I know play football? (points at Hades)
I don't play football, I watch it. I didn't feel like trying out, and I'm not very good.
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Originally posted by mikhael
"Rotoscoped" is a real word. Look it up.
I tried. Twice with rotoscope and once with rotoscoped. It's not in Merriam-Webster's online dictionary. (Or the root word is spelled differently enough that AOL's spell checker can't identify it.)
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Originally posted by Shrike
See, but I could just as easily see them going "DIVE DIVE DIVE!" as they react professionally to the crisis, then when the crisis is passed "****, that was close."
But they didn't, now did they? No, Snipes was a pro about it: http://freespace.volitionwatch.com/qm/pub/sandwich/too_close.wav
Anyway, there are a number of exemplary voice samples from that particular SOC mission:
Dive dive dive! (http://freespace.volitionwatch.com/qm/pub/sandwich/dive_dive.wav)
Do I look Shivan to you? (http://freespace.volitionwatch.com/qm/pub/sandwich/do_i_look_shivan.wav)
Also, here's (http://freespace.volitionwatch.com/qm/pub/sandwich/evade_evade.wav) a sample I'd never run across before - apparently version 1.0 of "Dive dive dive!". :p
Anyway, as those samples will show, good voice acting, particularly when it doesn't sound like acting at all, can cover pretty much any supposed "lack" of profane emphasis. ;)
Also, note that Lt. Snipes did say "...where the hell are we?", which I leave to you to decide whether that is swearing. I've heard hell preached from the pulpit, personally, but I tend not to use it in day to day life as an exclamation. :)
Rotoscoped is something to do with animating, I know that much.
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Hmm. It's a film technical term so maybe that's why it wasn't in there.
Rotoscope Animation is an old technique where live action film images were projected frame by frame, traced and re-filmed frame by frame.
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Personally, I've never found it difficult to rephrase in such a way that all the emotional content comes through without needing expletives. It really isn't too hard, guys...
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I got the wave of Delenn from B5 screaming "Bastards!" so you can bet it's going in a B5 mission!
"Listen up you primitive ScrewHeads, this is my BOOMSTICK!" (Points at Archangel)...
Go to SpaceBattles.com and get movie "Space Battle" it looks inspired by Wing Commanderfor look and feel. The pilots seemed to behave as I'd expected them too with a reasonable amount of swearing... IMHO. So that is what I will try to attain in my missions.
BTW SAAB or not this line is getting used,
"The is Lt Nathan West, Planet Earth, Open wide you Chig Bastards!" :D
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The problem with all the common profane words is that they are used so often and in so many different ways that they can literally mean just about anything (has anyone seen that fword.wav file on the internet? :D) and thus have lost their intensity for any one of those meanings. This is why it looks stupid and embarassing when you play one of those missions that are riddled with four-letters words in every sentence; it just shows that the designer can't write. However, there is nothing to be "offended" at either.
UT? Mebbe I'm mistaken, but as far as I can remember the strongest word it uses is '*****' (or 'beeeyatch', if you prefer)
lol try playing a game or two online there; on some servers, everyone is hurling heavy curses at each other every five seconds for no reason at all. :D
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Ah yes, I get you... we've got four machines on a LAN in our gaff, and when the mulitplayer gets going the language gets both loud and nasty. 'Specially UT :)
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ROTOSCOPE (http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Club/9199/Animation/Fleischer_Rotoscope.html)
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Well, derailment aside, I'm hearing good arguments from each camp. But, the vote is telling me that cussing is A-1 Supar - those not in favour better start comming up with some even better reasoning :)
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Listen *****, don't you start your ****ing swearing **** it my favorite ****-hot game, y'hear? ****....
:ha: :ha:
My point being, anyone can swear - but if you have the brainpower you don't need to, to get your point across. I'm assuming by the 23rd century literacy standards will have increased a bit :p
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Personally, I wouldn't wanna hear anything that really wasn't said in the original game.
On a side note, these are funny as hell, if you haven't heard them
Quit laughing (http://icestar.hypermart.net/michael/LP2-2_SN_03_OUTTAKE.wav)
Had your fun? (http://icestar.hypermart.net/michael/LP2-2_SN_06_OUTTAKE.wav)
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No, the cussing vote is currently only ~44%. A majority of those who voted are not in favor of swearing; they just split their vote among different options.
What is the significance of the ukelele option?
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Originally posted by Goober5000
No, the cussing vote is currently only ~44%. A majority of those who voted are not in favor of swearing; they just split their vote among different options.
You're absolutley right. I'm just really bad with numbers :D
What is the significance of the ukelele option?
It's a Genuine Aloha Ukelele(tm). And I'm playing a short solo on it :)
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Okay...but how does that relate to cussing?
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You ever heard one being played?
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Yeah...why, do you think they sound bad?
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Look, the last time I posted a poll I got shouted at for not giving a comedy fourth option, so don't you start on me, OK?
:D
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Originally posted by Blue Lion
Had your fun? (http://icestar.hypermart.net/michael/LP2-2_SN_06_OUTTAKE.wav)
:lol: - I always thought he was asking "Is that your phone?"
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Learn something new everyday :p
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Originally posted by diamondgeezer
Look, the last time I posted a poll I got shouted at for not giving a comedy fourth option, so don't you start on me, OK?
:D
Eh, okay. I thought it was a comedy option, but I also thought it might be related to something I didn't recognize.
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...back on topic...
there are just some oh-**** moments that just aren't the same without a little profanity here and there...for example, when the first sath jumps in through the knossos portal I would have expected someone to say "OH ****!" as the warphole opened...
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It's all got to do with the situation I think. For example, in my NTV missions, the odd damn, hell, etc. escapes from the mouths of NTF pilots, as it suits to demonstrate their slightly less disciplined nature (not a lot, but slightly). I have steered clear of true profanities though, however, with the first deployment of the Collosus I think we might hear a **** or two. I have used crap before in mission, and I see no problem with that.
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Originally posted by Black Wolf
...with the first deployment of the Collosus I think we might hear a **** or two.
(http://dynamic4.gamespy.com/~freespace/forums/images/smilies/wakka.gif)
LOL, that is hilarious without the quotation marks! It makes it sound like...uh, the pilot has to - uh - change his shorts after seeing the Colossus for the first time. :lol: Come to think of it, if I saw an enemy ship the size of a small village coming after me, I might do the same thing. :nervous:
I have used crap before in mission, and I see no problem with that.
:lol: Maybe you don't, but the community won't let you get away with putting a bunch of crap together and calling it a mission! :lol:
Again, quotation marks are A-1 SUPAR! :D
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you should go to bed man :nod:
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Well, those in favour of turning the air blue have 50% of the vote (and I counted it up properly this time :D)...
That said, looking back over the campaign, I may be able to get around ye big F-word, even though it'd pain me to do it. You're still getting the kind of swearing you might expect in, say, a 12 rated action film, though :nod:
Actually, something's just occoured to me - Teminator 2, uber-film of all time, and 18 rated. Did that have the Deplorable Word in it? Cannae quite remember...
[EDIT] Thanks to an0n, the swearers are just edging ahead in the vote. w00+!
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Originally posted by diamondgeezer
Actually, something's just occoured to me - Teminator 2, uber-film of all time, and 18 rated. Did that have the Deplorable Word in it? Cannae quite remember...
T2 was rated 15. Strangely enough my DVD of T1 also has that rating although I`m sure I remember the video having an 18 rating.
With a 15 rating I doubt it did have much of that kind of language.
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Originally posted by karajorma
T2 was rated 15...
:wtf:
Really? Which country are you in?
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The real problem comes up when you are trying to decide what to make a Vasudan pilot say. The translators will not translate vasudan curses and slang, so something else must be used there. I have a mission where I need a vasudan guy to exclaim "what the ****" or something to that effect, but it must be rephrased. I was thinking about "what in the world," but that sounds weird for space-faring beings to say, although "what the..." might work.
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Try
What the *untranslatable*...
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Pffff. The FS pilots swore far too little considering they were being shot at by a race of wierd-ass aliens with superior offensive and defensive systems.
What the ****? My ML-16 is just bouncing right off it
ARGH! My ****ing shields!!!!!
Die, you pentapedal, sociopathic ****-stain!
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:wtf:
Erm... yes... I was thinking of something a little more subtle than that... I mean, fair enough, the pilots'd be making with the colourful lingo, but given the number of people here who object to profanity for whatever reasons they have I thought perhaps I should make some effort to keep it rated 'Teen'...
Don't worry an0n, I'll do a special swear-tastic version, just for you and Shrike :nod:
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Maybe you could leave all the swearing up to the Vasudans, and do it in a funny way, like CP5670 and diamondgeezer were saying.
:lol:
Imagine listening to a translation...you hear the Vasudan voice in the background blurting something very loudly and energetically, and the translator just mechanically says "Excrement." :lol:
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The phrase is literally translated: S.O.B.
Vasudan: look out! (Male offspring of a female Canine mammal)
wierd huh?
Swearing should never become a 'lost art' of expression. look at the feeble attempt of Kirk to blend in with the 20th centrury.
"Double dumb ass on you!" PLEASE! Give me a break.
Spock on the other hand logically did research and became fairly proficient in the "colorful Euphanisims"...
"One Damn minute admiral" , "The hell I wont!"
Good for you Spock, represent! :nod:
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Don't worry an0n, I'll do a special swear-tastic version, just for you and Shrike
*ahem*
(http://hwcomic.planethardwar.com/smiles/alien.gif)
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:wtf:
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Originally posted by diamondgeezer
:wtf:
Really? Which country are you in?
UK same as you. :D I remember that I found it funny at the time, cause the kid who played John Connor was 14 and therefore wasn`t allowed to attend the premier :D
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Originally posted by karajorma
I remember that I found it funny at the time, cause the kid who played John Connor was 14 and therefore wasn`t allowed to attend the premier :D
ROFLMAO!
I think you should look at the poll results not as "51% say to include swearing, and 49% not to", but as "51% don't mind swearing at all, while 49% do have issues of varying degrees with it".
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Swearing within context is an excellent way to convey a pilot's emotions. Face it, there's no "substitute" word that has the same effect. In a real situation, if a pilot is scared ****less, he's gonna curse. I hate it when watching movies like Predator and Aliens on a "non-swearing" channel on TV. The whole movie just seems...dumber.
Put in all the swearing that you need. Don't put it in just for the hell of it, and the mission will seem a lot cooler, more realistic, and definitely more serious.
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OK, for all you politely-spoken people out there - d/l this (http://old.fileplanet.com/dl/dl.asp?planetavp/al/Multimedia/Video/a2hudfin.zip) clip and tell me if it would have worked without the swearing (it's just shy of 5 megs, and it's on the FilePlanet old servers, so hopefully no queueing)
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That'll be a double post, then.
My bad :o
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Vasudans in SA have been known to curse with "By the Prophets" and other religious or quasi-religious sayings.
Maybe it doesn't sound that emotional or offensive to you Terrans, but to us Vasudans it is a most powerful utterance.
:D
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So now we know how Vasudans swear...
I beg to ask how do Shivans swear?
Is it using negative qualities attributed to food?
"This food is ROTTEN!"
"That creature made me SICK TO MY STOMACH(S)?!"
Carl please enlighten us ;)
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Originally posted by Blue Lion
You ever heard one being played?
Son of a ****, kill the f*****r whos playing the f*****g thing! Rip his f*****g guts out!
:p
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Originally posted by diamondgeezer
OK, for all you politely-spoken people out there - d/l this (http://old.fileplanet.com/dl/dl.asp?planetavp/al/Multimedia/Video/a2hudfin.zip) clip and tell me if it would have worked without the swearing (it's just shy of 5 megs, and it's on the FilePlanet old servers, so hopefully no queueing)
Downloaded fine, but won't play...always shows "Buffering (0%)"
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:confused:
Works fine here. I assume you have half a dozen different movie players you can try, like the rest of us...
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Originally posted by diamondgeezer
OK, for all you politely-spoken people out there - d/l this (http://old.fileplanet.com/dl/dl.asp?planetavp/al/Multimedia/Video/a2hudfin.zip) clip and tell me if it would have worked without the swearing (it's just shy of 5 megs, and it's on the FilePlanet old servers, so hopefully no queueing)
Wish you`d mentioned it was hudson's last stand. :) I didn't really need to downloaded it :)
Funny thing is that when ITV first showed Aliens they didn`t bleep out that scene or change the dialogue as they had with the rest of the movie (What the frig are we going to do now man!) They simply lowered the sound levels so that you couldn`t hear him swear over the gunfire.
Unfortunately that makes it seem like Hudson was in a firefight and got grabbed. It's only when you hear him cursing that you realise that he's finally lost it.
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Got it working. I think it would work okay without the swearing. Keep the same level of intensity and almost the same sentences, but without the foul language. Not every word in that scene is a swear word.
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Trust me. It doesn`t work without the swearing. Hudson's lost it. The swearing shows it.
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Agreed, the swearing really is necessary for that scene...nothing shows how much Hudson's lost it until he starts screaming an obscenity in every three words.
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Thanks for the reminder. That was one of the classic death scenes in cinema history (Hudson's Last Stand).
The action plus Hudson's personality (pessimest, has issues, and about to die) really makes it a powerful and timeless scene.
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OK, these are still excellent arguments all round, keep it up.
Goober mate, exactly how would you have scripted that sequence? What, exactly, would you have had Hudson saying (or screaming)? Personally, I don't think it would have worked without the phrase 'mother ****er'. Correct me if I'm wrong, because in all honesty I'd like to know how to recreate that tension and action without the cussing.
Another example - in the uber-brilliant Event Horizon (scary no matter how many times I watch it), Cooper the funky spaceman gets blasted into space by an explosion. To get back to the ship, he blows his O2 tanks, and as he rockets towards the Event Horizon he shouts "here I come, mother ****ers!". Now, that was what I mean by comedy swearing, and the line gets a laugh every time we watch the film. Discuss.
Yet another example - The two Predator films. Very little swearing for a gun-blasting action film, but when Dutch/Harrigan see the Pred without its mask they say the only thing that's really appropriate to the situation - "you're one ugly mother ****er..." Again, discuss.
For those non-cursing types who think they can clever-dialogue their way around gratuitous swearing, try to give me your 'clean' versions of what the characters described above could have said instead. Bear in mind that if it sounds wussy I'll point at you and laugh, so be a bit careful with it :)
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Semprini!
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Originally posted by diamondgeezer
Goober mate, exactly how would you have scripted that sequence? What, exactly, would you have had Hudson saying (or screaming)? Personally, I don't think it would have worked without the phrase 'mother ****er'. Correct me if I'm wrong, because in all honesty I'd like to know how to recreate that tension and action without the cussing.
Well, I haven't seen any of the films mentioned, so I wouldn't know the exact mood. And it was hard to make out some of the dialogue in the clip you posted. But here's my cleaned version of your clip:
Die! Die!
Attack! (? - hard to hear)
Die!
Come on, come get me!
Come on!
Come on, you too!
You want some of this?
Aaahhhhh!
Almost the same thing, just no swear words. Scream and yell and holler to keep the same level of intensity.
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Originally posted by ZylonBane
Semprini!
:wtf:
Originally posted by Goober5000
Well, I haven't seen any of the films mentioned...
:eek2: I'm... shocked. No, frankly I'm disgusted. You've never seen Aliens, Event Horizon of either Predator film? :shaking: I tell my mate Big Gay Mike about this and he's quite literally going to have a heart attack.
You, sir, have no taste in movies. To be honest, it's become hard for me to respect you arguments, knowing that you haven't seen (and I can only assume wouldn't like) what are basically four of my top ten movies (add Stargate, T2, Pitch Black, Dark City, Alien and 13th Warrior :D)
I have to be open here - you've upset me so much with your lack of quility film-watchage that I'm gonna make my project as foul mouthed as possible, in the hope the non-swearing crew will get offended and complain. OK, perhaps I take my film watching a little too seriously, but you're trying to debate with me over examples from films you haven't even seen. How can you tell me Aliens would be better (or would work at all) without swearing if you've never seen it - and exactly why have you never seen it? It's the officially best bloody action movie EVER, and most people here will tell you that. And there's just no excuse for having not seen Event Horizon... bloody hell, look, you're sent me off on a rant :rolleyes:
Right, here's the deal - you watch yourself a copies of Aliens (make sure you get Aliens, the titles are uber-similar), Event Horizon and one of the Predators (the first one, for preference. Or both :)), then you come back and we'll talk about how to make action sequences work.
Blimey...
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hey, I have not seen any of those either (seen something like four movies in my life) and I don't mind the cursing... :D
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Originally posted by CP5670
hey, I have not seen any of those either (seen something like four movies in my life) and I don't mind the cursing... :D
CP, if I hadn't seen any of those great movies (which, of course, I have) and never got interested in women and spent all my time working on math problems 24/7, then I wouldn't mind cursing that much either. *cough* woosie *cough* ;)
Fortunately, I have seen those movies, did get interested in women, and DON'T do math problems. All the same, I don't mind cursing that much either.
Come to think of it, not only do I not mind cursing, I engage in it quite frequently...:D
EDIT: Now you piqued my curiosity, CP. Just what movies have you seen? (And if you tell me you haven't seen Star Wars, I'm kicking you off the datDB staff, just on principle! J/K ;)
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Originally posted by diamondgeezer
You've never seen Aliens, Event Horizon of either Predator film?
Sorry to disabuse you, but Event Horizon sucked. It may have been technically excellent, but the plot was a generic mishmash of ideas and scenes from a half-dozen other, better movies. The fact that you think so highly of it only points to a very narrow exposure to the horror and sci-fi genres.
PS-- semprini (http://www.graphicszone.net/monty_python/scripts/Series_2/25.htm)
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Want an example of good swearage? Billy Connoly. 'nuff said.
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Originally posted by diamondgeezer
You, sir, have no taste in movies. To be honest, it's become hard for me to respect you arguments, knowing that you haven't seen (and I can only assume wouldn't like) what are basically four of my top ten movies (add Stargate, T2, Pitch Black, Dark City, Alien and 13th Warrior :D)
Maybe you can help me here - what exactly were the baddies in that movie? Were they humans gone psycho, some kind of mist monsters or demons, or what? The movie itself was very cool, but I just never quite got that part of it :wtf:
(BTW, I've assumed we're talking about the same movie - the arab who goes off with the vikings and learns their language in about 60 (onscreen) seconds?)
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Originally posted by ZylonBane
Sorry to disabuse you, but Event Horizon sucked...
I have heard this before, but I've yet to be convinced of the validity of the argument. Tell me which movies I should have been watching instead and I'll make an effort to see them. Until such time as I do, I officially love Event Horizon, so bite me.
As for 13th Warrior - not entirely sure. The point was, as you yourself mentioned BW, that the movie was very cool.
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Couple of random thoughts here:
1 - Personally, I take "less" offense at the use of SOB than I do the F word, although bastard works nicely. Substitue where possible, perhaps?
2 - One boring Saturday in the Army, I had nothing better tyo do than to watch movies. So which ones did end up watching? Event Horizon, and right after that, Sphere. Now, I recognize the good points in both movies, despite not being the kind of person who actually enjoys getting scared witless, but please - watching those 2 movies back-to-back was deja-vu - annoying deja-vu, at that! And it didn't help that they had the same actor - that guy from Jurassic Park - Neil something? Anyway, that pretty much ruined both of those movies for me.
3 - Seen Predator 1, have number 2 but haven't watched it yet - I heard it's not as good as 1. What's your take?
4 - Never seen any of the Alien movies. :p
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Personnally, language doesn't offend me though I prefer not to see/hear it. My problem is that I have young eyes/ears that love to watch dad play.
If it's just one or two mission(s), provide an 'R' and 'PG' version of the mission(s).
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Originally posted by aldo_14
Want an example of good swearage? Billy Connoly. 'nuff said.
Billy Connolly, my God, he's a laugh riot!:lol:
But an even better example of good swearage would be George Carlin.
In any case, they're both great comedians.:nod:
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I've seen many movies, including Stargate, T1, and T2. Just not Alien, Predator, or Event Horizon.
Howabout this...
Holy extraterrestrials, Batman! Aliens are attacking me!
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Originally posted by Sandwich
Couple of random thoughts here...
1. I am trying. Of course, swear words mean subtley (or completely) different things to different cultures, and sometimes there's just no substitute...
2. Yes, Sphere and EV are vaguely similar. However, Sphere just annoyed me when it turned out to all be in their imagination and then they just imagine the whole thing away. Boo! And... since when was Sam Neil in Sphere? Have you somehow managed to confuse Sam Neil and Samuel L. Jackson :wtf:?
3. Well... actually I saw Predator 2 first. I like 'em both. Probably the first one is better, but in the second one we get to see the Pred use all the cool kit you have in AvP2. That, and the Pred's trophy cabinet, which includes a certain skull which you prolly wouldn't recognise, on account of you not having seen a certain quartet of films. Speaking of which:
4. You suck! please don't ban me
Oh, and I'm not sure why Billy Connoly came up, but for the record I have lost all respect for him since he started doing those lottery commercials. Evidently he's prepared to take on a crap job if he's paid enough. Bleh... sell-out...
OK, so at the moment the swear-o-vision option is pulling ahead, but I'm favouring two versions, like R1 said. I figured I'd prolly end up doing that anyway, but if you don't research these things you'll never know...
[EDIT]
Holy extraterrestrials, Batman! Aliens are attacking me!
:wtf:
Er... nice try, but no. Just... no
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Originally posted by diamondgeezer
Oh, and I'm not sure why Billy Connoly came up, but for the record I have lost all respect for him since he started doing those lottery commercials. Evidently he's prepared to take on a crap job if he's paid enough. Bleh... sell-out...
Not living in the UK, I haven't seen these commercials, so thankfully, I haven't lost respect for Billy Connoly (yet). Then again, we all need to pay the bills. Hell, I've seen Dennis Miller do voice overs for radio commercials (AND he appears in a whole bunch of Dial 10-10-220 commercials) all over the place as well, so I guess it's not too unusual.
If I have to make a choice between becoming a sellout or starving, I'd...have a difficult choice ahead of me.
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Originally posted by diamondgeezer
:wtf:
Er... nice try, but no. Just... no
That was a joke. ;)
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Originally posted by diamondgeezer
2. Yes, Sphere and EV are vaguely similar. However, Sphere just annoyed me when it turned out to all be in their imagination and then they just imagine the whole thing away. Boo! And... since when was Sam Neil in Sphere? Have you somehow managed to confuse Sam Neil and Samuel L. Jackson :wtf:?
Hmmm... Not Samuel L. Jackson, for sure. Perhaps I got confused with Dustin Hoffman...?
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Originally posted by diamondgeezer
Oh, and I'm not sure why Billy Connoly came up, but for the record I have lost all respect for him since he started doing those lottery commercials. Evidently he's prepared to take on a crap job if he's paid enough. Bleh... sell-out...
I'd agree with you there (although the site of him running around central London naked for comic relief didn`t help).
If we are talking about comedians who swear no one can hold a candle to Bill Hicks. He had something to say about artists who do commercials too :D
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Originally posted by Su-tehp
If I have to make a choice between becoming a sellout or starving, I'd...have a difficult choice ahead of me.
Oh come on. It's not like the guy wasn't a millionaire before he was offered the job...
Originally posted by Goober5000
That was a joke. ;)
Yes. I know. Oh, how I am laughing.
Originally posted by Sandwich
Perhaps I got confused with Dustin Hoffman...?
I think that this is far more likely. Still inexcusable, though :D
Originally posted by karajorma
...the site of him running around central London naked for comic relief didn`t help...
As much as I enjoyed being reminded about that, could we try not to stray OT here? Thanks :)
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Originally posted by diamondgeezer
As much as I enjoyed being reminded about that, could we try not to stray OT here? Thanks :)
That's why I mentioned Bill Hicks. Yes he was foul mouthed but he was funny as hell.
I think a PG and an R-rated version is the way to go.
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Looks that way... oh well, it's not like I have anything better to do...
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As quite a few people here have said, swearing should be used were it is apropiate. I personal don't swear, unless:
a) I'm alone
b) something happened that was not good
and c) I am ticked off!:mad:
Although I don't swear, I hear almost the full lot (f***, S***, etc) all day, and those games I own which can have swearing turned off, I will leave it on, simply because it adds atmosphere (Hostile Waters is good example. Your troops will swear, but only in the right situation).
Maybe I don't have a problem with it because:
a) as said, I hear it all day
b) I have seen lots of films that include it.
Films such as: Terminator 1 and 2, Predator 1 and 2, Alien, Aliens, Alien 3 and Alien 4, Event Horizon (NEVER watching that again!), Men In Black, all the Jurassic Park films, Battlestar Galatica, Stargate, Gone in Sixty Seconds (both versions!:D ), Partiot Games, Clear and Present Danger, Hunt for Red October, Sum of All Fears, plus several others that I can't remember right now.........
You know, you could also have your characters cut off just before they swear.
eg: 'Oh F@#'
I would draw the line at the 'F' word, except in the strongest circumstances.
EDIT: What the? Its not displaying part of my example message! It SHOULD read: 'Oh F@#'
If it is still not, then.......:mad:
EDIT2:......:sigh: :( :no:
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Hmm... have the admins added a swear-filter?
Testing... testing... ****ing well testing...
[EDIT] Nope, panic over :)
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Originally posted by diamondgeezer
Oh, and I'm not sure why Billy Connoly came up, but for the record I have lost all respect for him since he started doing those lottery commercials. Evidently he's prepared to take on a crap job if he's paid enough. Bleh... sell-out...
Er... wouldn't we all do that? Anyways, the man's still a comedy genius. :nod: Not to mention his charity work.
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Originally posted by aldo_14
Er... wouldn't we all do that? Anyways, the man's still a comedy genius. :nod: Not to mention his charity work.
Seen his version of the last supper?
"One of yous is gonnae shop me!"
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'See you judas - you're getting on ma tits!'
I've got that on a CD somewhere...classic.
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I ****in' swear like a blasted sailor, so put da' ****in' **** word in, or I'll blast your damn head of, capish!?
:D
No, seriously, put them in, they make it sound much better. In war, people don't remove bad words from their speech. They say whatever comes to mind.
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I'll admit, I'm a wuss and are against (Audio) swearing in FS2, but only because it would be within the hearing range of my 2 year old. I personally think that swearing within the game would be realistic in the right circumstances; but anyone that uses it in missions or campaigns should issue 2 versions - a full blown, no holds barred swearathon (if desired) and a sanitised version for those of us who have to play under (shall we say restrained?) conditions.
I admit that I do swear whilst playing FS2 and it is late at night and there is no one else around. You should have heard me during Slaying Ravana. :mad:
Got the Bastard in the end, though. Ravana, that is.
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Originally posted by Cuttenslise
I'll admit, I'm a wuss and are against (Audio) swearing in FS2, but only because it would be within the hearing range of my 2 year old. I personally think that swearing within the game would be realistic in the right circumstances; but anyone that uses it in missions or campaigns should issue 2 versions - a full blown, no holds barred swearathon (if desired) and a sanitised version for those of us who have to play under (shall we say restrained?) conditions.
I admit that I do swear whilst playing FS2 and it is late at night and there is no one else around. You should have heard me during Slaying Ravana. :mad:
Got the Bastard in the end, though. Ravana, that is.
Beeps for when the kiddies are around would seem a good idea.
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If you're going to use beeps, there had better be two versions. I wouldn't be able to stand a mission with Alpha 2 screaming "WHAT THE BEEP??" It would really take away from the mission, its hard to get immersed in the battle when you can hear that its cut and edited.
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The time is almost upon us...
[EDIT] By all the gods, debugging a campaign is a soul-destroying experience... :ick