Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Su-tehp on November 06, 2002, 01:57:31 am
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Yeah, yeah, I know I'm just daring the HLP Admins to own this thread because it's blatantly political, but I'm too tired and too pissed to care right now. If Thunder feels the need to close this thread, I won't blame him at all, but I need to get this into the open and off my chest.
Looks like it's official. The Republicans own the US Government completely now; they've got all three branches completely in the palm of their hands.
Jim Jeffords saved us once, but I don't think anyone else is gonna switch out of the Republican party this time.
I'm gonna go get me a smoke. After that, maybe I'll get some sleeping pills so I can get some rest.
It's gonna be a looooong two years...:(
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... As though the rich, self-interested candidates on one side or another were really much different? They serve different masters, sure, but the masters have much the same aims, and neither really gives a **** about anyone with an income lower than seven or eight figures.
It's not like the Congress Dems did anything but roll over and let Bush screw whoever he damn well pleased anyway. Bastards, they deserved it after all that bull****.
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Guess what? The Liberals have owned Canada for over a decade now. Boo hoo, the Republicans own the US. At least you have the Democrats as an alternative choice to form a government. We have jack.
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Both parties are stupid in their own ways; I couldn't really care less which one has control. :p (the parties' stances on issues are completely arbitrary)
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Thanks, guys, for putting this in perspective. Even CP's cynicism is almost enough to cheer me up. :D
Almost.:(
I had alot of emotional investment in today's election. It was my first time voting as an American citizen and I REALLY wanted to see the Dems at least hold onto the Senate. Now Bush is going to ram through his judicial nominees and turn the American legal system to the right for decades. Something tells me that civil rights and environmental protection laws are going to be taken down by judicial fiat in the next few years...:sigh:
Let's see, how much **** have I had to endure since I got to law school?
1) I watched the Supreme Court itself shake my faith in American law in Bush v. Gore (and if anyone says "Get over it!" to me one more time, I'll tell him that I'll get over Bush v. Gore when the Right-wingers get over Roe v. Wade).
2) Due to the incompetence of one of my legal professors, my GPA suffered so immensely that I'm barely beginning to dig myself out of that hole now.
3)I saw my mother for the last time when she went into the hospital "for the flu" and found out less than ten hours later that she had died in the hospital due to cancer "complications."
4) I witnessed 9/11 LIVE ON TV as the events at the World Trade Center were happening less than a half-hour's drive from where I was.
5) I found out that my cousin died less than a month ago from lung cancer at the age of 47. 47! He wasn't even married!
6) And now this.
I'm exhausted, I'm restless, I'm bereft of hope for the future and I want to go home.
The ONLY bright spot in my life right now is that this girl who I've cared deeply for over the past year might actually be turning around and FINALLY be willing to date me.
OK, guys, I'm sorry about turning this thread into a long complaint/rant, but I REALLY needed to get all this off my chest.
I'm going to bed.
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Originally posted by Su-tehp
3)I saw my mother for the last time when she went into the hospital "for the flu" and found out less than ten hours later that she had died in the hospital due to cancer "complications."
Oh, man. :(
Wow. I just stopped in my tracks when I read that. I can't imagine how that would feel. I'll be praying for you tonight.
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Originally posted by Su-tehp
If Thunder feels the need to close this thread, I won't blame him at all, but I need to get this into the open and off my chest.
My reputation preceeds me :nervous:
I won't lock it - so long as it's not a flame war or spamming. Discussion is all good.
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Originally posted by Goober5000
Oh, man. :(
Wow. I just stopped in my tracks when I read that. I can't imagine how that would feel. I'll be praying for you tonight.
Ditto.
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don't worry after the reps do what they were elected for (the war) they can't help but screw with the rest of the government, this almost garantees a democratic presedent next time round.
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Oh man, That is most depressing, Su-tehp. :( This period of roughness can only last so long, and hopefully things will suck less soon. I feel truely sorry for your losses, and I'm sure we're all pulling for ya. So here are some happy smilies to make you feel better :D :D :D:p :) :p :D :D :D
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God hates lawyers.
Also, at least you didn't have to watch her rot. I did with my uncle, and lemme tell ya, watching someone slowly die from ass-cancer is not pretty.
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(reads headlines)
-Lines up su-teph, and finds paint guns and lays it on!
-Damn republicans gonna start ww3... :shaking:
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Woo hoo, the American People were given a chance to choose between a repulsive right wing party or a very repulsive right wing party and chose the latter :rolleyes: You guys don't even have the social democrats :lol:
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At least they didn't pick commies. :p :D
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Of course, the Hoi Poloi need to know their place. Now wave the flag, sing the national anthem and do as you're told to by people richer than you like a good American :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Top Gun
Of course, the Hoi Poloi need to know their place. Now wave the flag, sing the national anthem and do as you're told to by people richer than you like a good American :rolleyes:
:rolleyes:
Who let him into the space crack again ? :eek2:
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Uh, Please explain to me how the American Political system (or any other "democracy" for that matter) doesn't give the rich disproportionally high levels of authority.
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everyone gets one vote, no mater how much cash they give out
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Originally posted by Bobboau
everyone gets one vote, no mater how much cash they give out
Bout sums that up ;)
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Yes, you're quite right. And the rich own or have extensive influence over all the television networks, newspapers, mainstream political parties (which can pump out the most propaganda) and even what is 'taught' in the schools. Which has a significant effect how those votes are used. Then once legislators are elected they can be easily influenced through campaign contributions, old loyalties and their own selfish interests.
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And the political systems of other forms of government have jumped those hurdles and now represent the people with 100% accuracy! :wtf: Come on Democracy, catch up with the rest of the world! :rolleyes:
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Yes, you're quite right. And the rich own or have extensive influence over all the television networks, newspapers, mainstream political parties (which can pump out the most propaganda) and even what is 'taught' in the schools. Which has a significant effect how those votes are used. Then once legislators are elected they can be easily influenced through campaign contributions, old loyalties and their own selfish interests.
Exactly, but the whole concept of democracy is something of a farce anyway, so that does not really matter here; this is about the best you can get in a practical world. I'm not sure what the heck you are complaining about here. :p
Problem is, the views that the two parties express are so utterly random that I think the only real method in their choices is to take whatever side on an issue that is opposite to that taken by the other party, so to have something to fight about and thus gain popularity. There is really no consistency in their stances whatsoever. Also, for the most part, republicans don't know how to handle domestic issues and democrats don't know how to handle foreign issues, so I don't care much about which one of those two gets in power. :D
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Originally posted by Top Gun
Yes, you're quite right. And the rich own or have extensive influence over all the television networks, newspapers, mainstream political parties (which can pump out the most propaganda) and even what is 'taught' in the schools. Which has a significant effect how those votes are used. Then once legislators are elected they can be easily influenced through campaign contributions, old loyalties and their own selfish interests.
You're right every one with a voice should be able to braodcast informercials freely in order to sway the vote into their favor! Any citizen over the age 18 should be able to access television, newspapers, and anything they need to be heard!
:wtf:
Umm yea.
Tell me a country that doesn't have a cost to use or do anything ? By your reasoning ppl with money are the ultimate evil because they can afford to do what you and the common person can't ? :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by CP5670
Exactly, but the whole concept of democracy is something of a farce anyway, so that does not really matter here; this is about the best you can get in a practical world. I'm not sure what the heck you are complaining about here. :p
Problem is, the views that the two parties express are so utterly random that I think the only real method in their choices is to take whatever side on an issue that is opposite to that taken by the other party, so to have something to fight about and thus gain popularity. There is really no consistency in their stances whatsoever. Also, for the most part, republicans don't know how to handle domestic issues and democrats don't know how to handle foreign issues, so I don't care much about which one of those two gets in power. :D
LOL So true so true :D
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tell me a better system that is less prone to coruption, and does a better job of suporting it's people and there needs\desires
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Originally posted by Bobboau
tell me a better system that is less prone to coruption, and does a better job of suporting it's people and there needs\desires
I agree with you,... EVERY system has it's flaws
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Originally posted by Bobboau
tell me a better system that is less prone to coruption, and does a better job of suporting it's people and there needs\desires
Communism
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Originally posted by Top Gun
Communism
Yup that did wonders for the Good old USSR didn't it ?
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What a predictable relpy. Go and read the communist manifesto and compare it to the USSR's philosophy after lenin died. That's the equivelant of denouncing 'democracy' on the grounds that it allowed Hitler to rise to power.
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Originally posted by Top Gun
What a predictable relpy. Go and read the communist manifesto and compare it to the USSR's philosophy after lenin died. That's the equivelant of denouncing 'democracy' on the grounds that it allowed Hitler to rise to power.
The funny part here is ...I'm not the one trying to prove a point :D
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Actually it was Bobboau (besides me) that was trying to prove the point (albeit a different one). You just you just implied my point was wrong by giving irrelevant examples. Seems as the USSR bared none of the trademarks of a communist state (or even one in the making). Mind I'd much rather have lived in the USSR during Stalin's time that lived as a minority at the same point in time in the Southern states.
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Anyone who brings up Communism on a board frequented by Americans frankly gets what's coming to them.:rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Top Gun
What a predictable relpy. Go and read the communist manifesto and compare it to the USSR's philosophy after lenin died. That's the equivelant of denouncing 'democracy' on the grounds that it allowed Hitler to rise to power.
Have you read the communist manifesto? And you agree with it? :lol: :lol:
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I hate plurality vote.
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Originally posted by Stryke 9
Anyone who brings up Communism on a board frequented by Americans frankly gets what's coming to them.:rolleyes:
That's rather a sweeping statement unbecoming of you. Although it's probably true for the vast majority. I think it's rather a credit to the Americans that frequent here that they haven't resorted to their fellow countryman's normal way of dealing with this issue: flames, boos, chauvinism and profanity.
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I'm not talking about redneckery- I learned long ago that that's only the norm out where I live, and doesn't really carry over. What I mean is the complete lack of understanding of what Communism IS, and the assumption that it is a flawed system that has invariably failed. That is almost ubiquitous among Americans, thank you very much.
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Except those in the Communist party :D
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comunisim is everyone gets the same thing no mater what they do in life, so the philosipher poet who has also invented warp drive and computer chips as powerful as a 10 Thz AMD chip but are the size of a flu virus, gets the same resorces (food, electricity, maybe cash if that is still around) as the looser who does nothing but get high and nocks up his girlfrend.
Americans also have the notion that a strict police state that controles who you are and what you think is a necisary part of communisim, but it is only becase most comunistic regiems (that us supid Americans are awar of) hapen to be that way.
oddly most Europeans or just those who use democracy as a bad word tend to think that democracy requires capitolism, which is not the case, it is quite posable to have a comunistic economic system wich ellected leaders
ultimately I beleve there will a sort of hybird of capitolism and comunism becase taken straitly nether works perticularly well, but at the moment communism hasn't been showen to work any better than capitolism, and in fact between the two systems, when taken rigidly, capitolism has beaten comunism down flatly
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Originally posted by Bobboau
comunisim is everyone gets the same thing no mater what they do in life, so the philosipher poet who has also invented warp drive and computer chips as powerful as a 10 Thz AMD chip but are the size of a flu virus, gets the same resorces (food, electricity, maybe cash if that is still around) as the looser who does nothing but get high and nocks up his girlfrend.
Strictly that is not true. The Scientist Poet and Philosopher will get as much as much as theguy who does manual labour on the grounds that both work equally hard and both jobs are mutally essential to society. That's the part of Communism that has the potential to be mortally offensive to Americans/American Values.
Originally posted by Bobboau
Oddly most Europeans or just those who use democracy as a bad word tend to think that democracy requires capitolism, which is not the case, it is quite posable to have a comunistic economic system
Of course. That's the way the Soviet Union Started out in its infancy. If you look at the policies of the Bolshevik Party at the time you will notice that it was way ahead of the rest of the world in democracy, answerability to the people, treatment of minorities, human rights, women's rights and freedom of speech. The soldiers in the army even voted in their own officers.
Democracy is of course greek for 'The rule of the people'. I don't see how anyone could be against that apart from self servers.
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Uh... Cuba, anyone? One of the best medical establishments in the world, formerly about as poor as you cna get and under an oppressive military junta, now a free Communist state right off the borders of the Grand High Pig's domain, and a nice place to go, too.
But yeah- problem is, communism by its nature pretty much requires a proletarian revolt and a dictatorship at some point, the latter at the very least because it's the most efficient form of government. Prole rebellions only happen when a country's in very bad shape indeed, and in such a case it's all too easy for an opportunist to pass himself off as the real thing and sieze power. It's a rare man who's really willing to pass up personal gain to help his fellow-man, and they only rarely come to power. So, we get lots and lots of states that are nominally Communist, and functionally quasi-Stalinist (i.e. fascist and socialist).
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Originally posted by Stryke 9
Uh... Cuba, anyone? One of the best medical establishments in the world, formerly about as poor as you cna get and under an oppressive military junta, now a free Communist state right off the borders of the Grand High Pig's domain, and a nice place to go, too.
Quite, it's a shining example to any other struggling country as to what can be achieved. What we must bear in mind though is that Cuba isn't the real thing. There is not a lot of political progression and a moderate amount of power abuse and corruption. Cuba turned towards communism via Guevara's guerilla foco theory instead of the political party method (which allows for the squabbles and debates required for a more democratic way of doing things and of course leaves it vulnerable to infiltration and internal degeneration on the flip side (as what happened in the USSR)). But because of its impoverished nature it wasn't ideal for the progress of any kind of Socialism (not helped by an american blockade) so the present situation is by far the best possible outcome for it.
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Actually, helped quite a lot by the American blockade. The other Gulf/Carribbean nations can trade freely with the US, and none of them is exactly what I call "survivable". They make third-world look pretty damn good. If Cuba was opened to the US, I'd give it about a yer before it was impoverished, two years before it was an unofficial American colony- half tourist resort, half more or less concentration camp for the locals.
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Originally posted by Stryke 9
...If Cuba was opened to the US, I'd give it about a yer before it was impoverished, two years before it was an unofficial American colony- half tourist resort, half more or less concentration camp for the locals.
With all the political prisoners imprisoned by Castro, I thought Cuba already is a concentration camp for the locals.
But, apparently, Cuba has some nice beaches, so it's all good. Hell if I know. *shrugs*
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Uh-huh. Political prisoners. Name one.
I wouldn't take anything all the ex-Batista officials and plantation straw bosses who emigrated from Cuba to the US after the revolution say too seriously. They also accuse Castro of pretty much every international incident ever to have happened.:rolleyes:
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Well, I guess I'm one of those morons that voted right-wing because I was fed by the political propaganda. :rolleyes:
Go figure because the only thing I really watch on TV are debates.
I'm sorry I may be a vast minority on this board, but I just can't seem to agree with liberal politics.
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/me remembers the "landslide" labour victory where only 20% voted at all...
/me realises what a mess democracy in general is.
/me goes back to plutonium reduction
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Originally posted by Stryke 9
Uh... Cuba, anyone? One of the best medical establishments in the world, formerly about as poor as you cna get and under an oppressive military junta, now a free Communist state right off the borders of the Grand High Pig's domain, and a nice place to go, too.
So if Cuba is so nice, how come people there still try to get out and go to the US?
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never underestimate the power of the glowing square box known as television or its application as a propaganda tool.
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Shrike: So if Mexico is a Democratic state with a second-world economy, how come we have to build a giant ****ing Berlin Wall all along the Texan border lined with machine-gun-toting guards and backed up by even more heavily armed farmers to keep all the immigrants out?:p
No matter how much better Cuba has it than its neighbors, it's still a pretty poor country. We get plenty of immigrants from Haiti, too, and they've got to come a good bit farther under much worse conditions for lower odds of actually making it and being able to stay.
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most forms of government look good on paper... and i quote from a friend "Theory and practice are one and the same in theory, in practice they are not"
Democracy has its flaws in that those who control money control the media, those who control the media control elections and in essence control the government. Thats the obvious, but by the same token, you're free to do as your heart desires in most cases; you're free to start a business and run it your way. I'll take democracy over communism any day.
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Uh... as was explained earlier, they're not incompatible in the slightest. And as I keep telling you people, and am about to bash heads over, A REPUBLIC IS NOT A DEMOCRACY. DEMOCRACIES ARE NOT CENTERED AROUND ELECTIONS, THEY ARE CENTERED AROUND VOTING. In fact, a true democracy would be the closest thing TO a power-distribution version of communism. Now explain how you can't divide both money and power equally among the people.
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Originally posted by LtNarol
I'll take democracy over communism any day.
I take it you mean capitalism.. in which case business isn't quite so free...
Try touching the energy market (patent some uber-energy source or research something that'll outmode oil) and you'll find that a lot of stuff is in the way (i.e. rockfeller)
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Wait, how did communism get into the picture here? That is an economic system, and we were talking about politics here. I am no proponent of freedom, capitalism, and whatever else, but I do think that a pseudo-freedom is necessary in today's cultural era to hold together a society for long periods of time.
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Fine, I'll take capitalism over communism any day.
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Originally posted by Blue Lion
Fine, I'll take capitalism over communism any day.
i'd take a happy medium....
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Originally posted by CP5670
Wait, how did communism get into the picture here? That is an economic system, and we were talking about politics here. I am no proponent of freedom, capitalism, and whatever else, but I do think that a pseudo-freedom is necessary in today's cultural era to hold together a society for long periods of time.
Well somehow it got from republicans and democrats to democracy and it's relation to communism, despite democracy being political/governmental and communism being economical......
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No where within the United States consitution is an economic system mentioned. The attachment of Republic-Capitalism and Dictatorship-Communisim is one which has evolved from the histories of the said nations.
I personally believe that we should have a True Democracy. I also believe that a person should only be taxed for the services they use. A government is a social contract, and what we have in the world today are hardly bodies operating in the best interests of the people.
Anyways, my point is that the structure of the United States would allow for radical alterations of government in the best interests of the people if carried out over a long (multi-generational) period of time.
Overall the old saying "War is too important for the generals." can be changed to: "Freedom is too important for a government."
Hardly an anarchist here, but something radically different can be created within the current framework. Something that takes advantage of inherient greed while also maintaining balance of power between individuals.
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Su-tehp, it's not gonna be a long two years.
It's gonna be a long six years. :o
And after that, we'll have a generation of right-wing Supreme Court judgements to live with. Joy of joys.
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oh, don't worry they won't last too long, Al Qada will set off a nuke from sadam long before then :nod:
all the politisans will die horably
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Saddam == Facist/Chauvinistic/imperialistic
Al Quaeda == Theocratic
They dislike each other enough to stand no chance of any unity at all.
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they have coincident objectives, and that's all that really matters... :p
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Something like the ago old
"The enemy of my enemy is my friend" theory.
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That logic doesn't really work, unless you have the leisure to casually ally with potential enemies. I see no reason why al Qaeda, the Islamic faction, would join up with Saddam, who habitually slaughters entire mosquefuls of religious types because they're paying too much attention to God and not enough to him. In turn, I can't see Saddam working with a group whose main aim is the elimination of all secular states and lifestyles, when his is one of the most secular in the region.
You know, Cuba doesn't like the US either. Have you considered the high likelihood of an atheistic, communist Latin American government joining forces with a virulently religious, oligarchic Middle Eastern state? Perhaps we should preempt Castro before Al Qaeda uses his island as a staging area to bring a whole mess o' Iraqi chemoweapons into the US, aided by the Freemasons, various militias and Nazi parties, the Chinese, and a good bit of Europe.
Get the picture?
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Originally posted by Blue Lion
Fine, I'll take capitalism over communism any day.
Agreed
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well then I guess our only recorse is to nuke the world, :nod:
well you knew it was only a mater of time
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Originally posted by LtNarol
Agreed
Of course you do, you're a self server. It's logical for anyone who stands to gain from it to have vested interest in preserving it for their own selfishness.