Hard Light Productions Forums
Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => The Modding Workshop => Topic started by: HotSnoJ on November 07, 2002, 07:38:10 am
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Ok I know what you're thinking. How can this guy who has been here awhile start talking FS3? Is he really that dumb? I (HotSnoJ) wouldn't put it past myself. Well I want to start a project that will be FS3. I know there might be some copyright stuff involved. So then we might call it "what FS3 might have been like MOD". I don't know the whole story and what is known. But this MOD will answer the questions. It'll set in stone things for future MOD's
So I'll need these people.
[list=1]
-Modelers
-Texturers
-Storyliners
-Animaters for movies and Ani's
-Renders for art and various other parts of the game
-Coders who can change the source for us. We will be working off of the what the current "official" version is.
-People who can model things like Shivans (yes I know venom2506 made one), Terrans, and Vasudans.
-Anything I've forgotten.
[/list=a]
I'd like to keep things secret so there will be more hype for it. I'll likely think up more as time goes. So please respond. [email protected] We will be working with a email list so we can keep thing secret until HLP hosts us or something else happens.
Anyway I don't have FS2 yet, but am waiting for a copy from Reaper and a new computer to play it on.
[Edit]Let's make something :V: would be proud of!
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So... you're basically going to make a campaign and call it FS3, then. What's to stop us over at Reciprocity changing our name to FS3?
Snoj mate, this was done to death at the VBB. So much so, in fact, that a short song was written about it:
If it's not by :V:, it's not FreeSpace 3!
Also (and I'm not sure how the source code release affects this, so no flaming me if I get this wrong), but copright basically prohibits your from doing this.
And I don't mean to be funny, but you really ought to have played FS2 before you start to think about making campaigns...
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Thats why I said, I know there might be some copyright stuff involved. So then we might call it "The 'What FS3 might have been like' MOD"
I am a member of the VBB but don't visit that much. As far as I know all FS MOD's don't claim to be FS3. Just a story around or sometime during the FS story line. I am not familar with all the MOD's only the ones that I'm with at the moment.
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Originally posted by HotSnoJ
So then we might call it "The 'What FS3 might have been like' MOD"
Would it not just be better to drop the whole FS3 handle and think up an original, catchy title? Strictly speaking, most all campaigns set after Capella are 'what FS3 might have been'...
I am a member of the VBB but don't visit that much
No, I imagine you don't
As far as I know all FS MOD's don't claim to be FS3. Just a story around or sometime during the FS story line
But of course, your campaign will be different, and not just a story around or sometiime during the FS story line. What are you doing that's so different?
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I dont see why you cant call it FS3 as long as you dont sell it, however it would have to be damn good to be excepted as that by the community.
Perhaps it could be a super mod, with a huge team of people working on it and only a few knowing the complete puzzel or perhaps you guys should just consentrate on getting current mods finished.
I do worry sometimes that something new will come along and take everyone away and we'll be left with loads of half finished MOD's.
When you say the current official version of the source do you mean the original release? If so, why not fs2_open?
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Originally posted by RandomTiger
I dont see why you cant call it FS3 as long as you dont sell it, however it would have to be damn good to be excepted as that by the community.
Perhaps it could be a super mod, with a huge team of people working on it and only a few knowing the complete puzzel or perhaps you guys should just consentrate on getting current mods finished.
I do worry sometimes that something new will come along and take everyone away and we'll be left with loads of half finished MOD's.
When you say the current official version of the source do you mean the original release? If so, why not fs2_open?
RandomTiger you seem to grasp what I was saying. Thats a good thing. Yes I was meaning the fs_open, what the community is working on. We'll base everything on it so Johnny Knownothing can import a different MOD without having to change engines.
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Its bad luck, bad form and bad taste to use "FreeSpace3" or "FS3" in relation to a fan-made mod. Leave FS3 and FS3 related stuff to Volition.
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Originally posted by RandomTiger
or perhaps you guys should just consentrate on getting current mods finished.
*EDIT* How'd that _I_ get there ? ? :D
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personally i think that FS3 as a project CAN be used as a name (not talking about legal stuff) BUT that this project should be followed by the entire community, possibly receiving the best efforts from the best modders
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Well, I hate to break it to you, but this exact same idea has been brought up and attempted so many times throughout the years already that it's not even funny. (good thing this isn't the VBB, or you would flamed to death :p) The main problem is that everyone has their own idea of what the continuation storyline should be, what should be in the modifications, and so on. And then there is also the fact that pretty much everyone around here is already occupied with several other uncompleted (as of yet) projects.
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Moral of the story: DG is always right :nod:
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always ?
:p
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So I'll need these people.
-Modelers
-Texturers
-Storyliners
-Animaters for movies and Ani's
-Renders for art and various other parts of the game
-Coders who can change the source for us. We will be working off of the what the current "official" version is.
-People who can model things like Shivans (yes I know venom2506 made one), Terrans, and Vasudans.
-Anything I've forgotten.
Ohh, then you going to watch, do nothing to biuld it, well, some people had done it like that, just me the manager.
And be more imaginative with the tittle, FS3 is simple, and there are many projects containing a continued version of FS2, well, maybee in its own different point of view.
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Always
If DG says something's true, it is. If you disagree, you're stupid.
:p
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LMAO
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HotSnoJ, if you make a campaign/mod that takes place after events of Capella, it's just another campaign/mod. Nothing special.
There's as much theories of what FS3 would have been as here are members, you version would be but one of many.
You can organize whatever campaigns/mods you like, but do not even try to call it FS3 behind the scenes.
Only :v: can make FS3. That's it.
Completely different situation would have been if :v: actually released FS3 storyline into public and then you make a campaign based on it. But if such an event would occur, that team would consist of best modders out there.
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I trust HotSnoJ to produce the definitive catchily entitled "What Freespace 3 Might Have Been Like Mod". The mere mention of HotSnoJ's name fills me with confidence and enthusiasm. HotSnoJ will do what Volition and the entire Freespace community have failed to do all these years. Go HotSnoJ.
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Originally posted by IPAndrews
I trust HotSnoJ to produce the definitive catchily entitled "What Freespace 3 Might Have Been Like Mod". The mere mention of HotSnoJ's name fills me with confidence and enthusiasm. HotSnoJ will do what Volition and the entire Freespace community have failed to do all these years. Go HotSnoJ.
If we all (everyone with talent and time) worked together and it was managed properly and fairly I think we could make something of a very high quality level but most people seem to be busy with their own small projects.
Great idea, is this the right time though?
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Originally posted by RandomTiger
If we all (everyone with talent and time) worked together and it was managed properly and fairly ...
... it would not be FS3. It would be another fan-made mod.
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Basically ...a MOD is a MOD ,... the FS3 title should really be for only an "Offical" sequel to the series.
Now if say a few of the actual FS series designers were to get together and form a MOD team to create this after the Interplay issues are dead,...then that would be worthy of the title.
Nothing against the MOD of course :) It just in reality can't be FS3, fs2.84231231 perhaps :D
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Good point - what ever happened to that FS2.9, or whatever it was called? Remember, that writer dude had submitted a script for FS3 to Volition, but they never got a chance to act on it... wasn't that a campaign at one point?
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Originally posted by diamondgeezer
Good point - what ever happened to that FS2.9, or whatever it was called? Remember, that writer dude had submitted a script for FS3 to Volition, but they never got a chance to act on it... wasn't that a campaign at one point?
I think it went the way of so many good concepts and just vanished from sight.
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Originally posted by Mr. Fury
You can organize whatever campaigns/mods you like, but do not even try to call it FS3 behind the scenes.
Only :v: can make FS3. That's it.
Completely different situation would have been if :v: actually released FS3 storyline into public and then you make a campaign based on it. But if such an event would occur, that team would consist of best modders out there.
:nod: Agrees 100%
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Responding to all those replies.
I never meant for this MOD to be an absolute. Just something to continue the main FS story. Like all other MOD's, somewhat. You see I think there should be a main story. All the other MOD's are sub-stories. This would be the main story. Though you can not accept it as it if you wish. Another reason I thought of making this MOD is because I want answers for the Shivans and such. In fact I thought of a name for it. FreeSpace 3 : The Answers. Which is subject to change because with my current idea it's mainly about answers.
I would make models, FRED, story line, and table. It's just that I can't texture. It's one of my many faults. True many have had thoughts of making a FS3 but have any gotten off the ground?
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News
Well as I've said we're going to use email as our main communication medium. And of course IM for person to person chat. So if you'd like to be with me on this project just send an email to me at [email protected]. Please include the following;
Name -
What can you do?
Any IM's
Comments/Misc.
If you are caught giving out any classified information on this MOD you'll be cut from the project. As I've said I want this to be the most secret MOD ever!
I also want this MOD to be made fast but polished at the same time. We won't release anything that is unfinished.
The order of business is story, ships/art, missions. We'll make the story first 'cuz right now it's kinda fuzzy. This is what I currently know about FS2. The Shivans come back. We beat them. Knossos tech make it possible to make subspace paths. Do I remember correctly? Does that sum up FS2? Next is the ships and art these will be made to fit the story. And finally the missions will be made to bring it all together.
Thank you all who have said, "nice idea".
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I like the idea, but do try to steer clear of the FS3 name or other such names. Just for example, it would have been pretty dumb if a bunch of guys had done say a Quake 2 MOD and called it Quake 3. Just doesn't work.
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Originally posted by HotSnoJ
You see I think there should be a main story. All the other MOD's are sub-stories. This would be the main story.
I want this to be the most secret MOD ever!
I also want this MOD to be made fast but polished at the same time.
Your simultaneous arrogance, optimism, and cluelessness are truly breathtaking.
Not an argument, just an observation. :thepimp:
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Originally posted by Hudzy
I like the idea...
What idea? There isn't even a story outline - do you even know what you're saying you like?
If you mean you like the thought of a campaign which gives some speculations about the Shivans and stuff - that's more than half of the buggers on the market. And if you're saying you like the idea of a definitive answer to the whole Shivan question, then maybe you can explain to me why HotSnoj's mod would be the 'official' continuation of the story.
Snoj, wanting to make the best campaign and mod ever is a commendable ambition - but do you think you can really see it through? And as for the name... well, when you present the community with a thirty to forty mission long campaign of :v: quality or higher (since FS2 is, what four years old?), then perhaps they'll say 'this is the closest we'll get to FS3', and you'll go down in HLP history as the guy that wrote FreeSpace's threequel. But until then, just stick to fan-made campaigns, like the rest of us.
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"I wanna have the bestest MOD ever! It's gonna have Shivans and answer all the unanswered questions on the FS storyline and have mods and source edits and all other mods are going to become mere submods of it and I'll have a small army of Fredders and modders working for me and they can't talk to anybody because the campaign's secret and it's gonna be the bestest ever and it won't even matter that I've clearly no idea of anything about the FreeSpace series and have never done anything pertinent to any campaign and don't really know how projects are done and can't get any staff!"
Righty-ho...
1. There is not going to be any one "official" mod, any one mod that's the "main story", anything of the sort. Most mods tie into Freespace, but they absolutely don't tie into each other, if only because they involve events of a truly cosmic scale that one would think would warrant mention in other campaigns, tend to all happen pretty much simultaneously, and invent new technologies and solutions to mysteries of the FS canon that aren't in other campaigns.
2. Do you actually DO anything? No offense, but can you mod? Can you FRED? Can you program, or are you an accomplished plotline writer? Do you even know what the capabilities and limitations of the FS2 engine ARE? I mean, you've never even played the bleeding thing, and are awfully dismissive of it. I personally wouldn't trust a boss that didn't at least have a vague concept of what could and couldn't be done, andhow to use that effectively.
3. The "unanswered questions" are there for a reason. Attempting a real answer to all of them would be foolish. As in much good writing, it's what's not there that holds the story together.
4. You're not gonna get any staff. The very IDEA of a user proj named "FS3" offends nearly all vets, and, well, see all above and below.
5. This has been attempted before. Many many times. Bad things happen to campaigns with the FS3 label.
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Freespace 3 is the official sequel to Freespace 2. Community mods are, by definition, unofficial. You'd need a a dyed-in-the wool ,stamped and branded official set of documents from :V: for the story to make it official.
Not to mention you'd breach copyright by using the name, which puts it on itchy ground ala hosting, etc.
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I'm not toally against a MOD called FS3, not totally. But you better get a damn good storyline, and I mean a really good one. Why do you think the TVWp project is taking SOOO long to do a demo, with the MOD almost done? We are working towards a monumental storyline that will make people want to take it as the canon, "what really happened". If you want people to think this about your campaign, you better get someone good to write your storyline. And you should have aty LEAST 30 or 40 missions.
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Yeah, a well-done mod without pretensions to officiality is another story altogether. I'd accept the storyline, as would most.
What HotSnoj is announcing, however, would be equivalent to a man claiming he was going to write the sequel to, say, Catch-22, despite the fact that he is not Joseph Heller, never read the book, and admittedly can't write.
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I'll glady help you write a story.....Just not for something called FS3.
You can not make something that would be acceptable in the eyes of all the people here. Heck, the T-V war Project has that problem too, which is another reason things are taking so long. My best advice if you really want to do something so monumental is......Create something different. Come up with an all new game, based on the FS_Open engine, and make it killer. That way you'll have total control over the story and features, especially if you know someone who can code, that isn't busy with the SCP. That would really be cool. But I think that your chances of making FS3 around here are preatty close to non-existant. Sorry bud.
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Originally posted by Hades
I'm not toally against a MOD called FS3, not totally. But you better get a damn good storyline, and I mean a really good one. Why do you think the TVWp project is taking SOOO long to do a demo, with the MOD almost done? We are working towards a monumental storyline that will make people want to take it as the canon, "what really happened". If you want people to think this about your campaign, you better get someone good to write your storyline. And you should have aty LEAST 30 or 40 missions.
You at least have a possibility of people considering your version of the events of the TV war semi-canon because quite frankly few others are coming up with an alternative.
What will happen is that most people if they have to refer to events in the TV war will use your data if it doesn`t conflict with what they want to do.
But who's going to do that with HotSnoj's idea? Lets face it he isn`t working in a field with no competion. I work on two campaigns that continue the events of FS2 and answer many of the questions raised. Many other campaigns also do the same.
What really annoys me about this idea is that there doesn`t even appear to be any solid idea of what the storyline will be. If at least there was a good plotline already worked out the community a little less hostile to this idea but since Hotsnoj asks for storyliners that needs to be writen that as well. Which means basically all you`re offering up Hotsnoj, is the idea that the community should work together and make FS3. Do you really believe that you are the first person to suggest this?
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Thank you all for your criticizing. It is very much appreciated.
I am sorry for bringing this up now. You are right, I should have worked though the story more before I posted. I should have played FS2 too.
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Hmph. Newbies these days. I remember, when I was fresh to the community, I fought this idea for MONTHS before I took the hint- even went ahead and did the campaign anyway! Now, they just roll over. Consarn it, what's WITH these kids?? Pick a fight, gol-durn it! I'm bored- MacGyver doesn't come on until seven![swings cane emphatically]
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What's with the blank post?:wtf: Or did you pst something bad, and then delete it?
EDIT: Oops, stupid me, you posted the text green. Here's what it says:
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Hmph. Newbies these days. I remember, when I was fresh to the community, I fought this idea for MONTHS before I took the hint- even went ahead and did the campaign anyway! Now, they just roll over. Consarn it, what's WITH these kids?? Pick a fight, gol-durn it! I'm bored- MacGyver doesn't come on until seven![swings cane emphatically]
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I tried one of those too.
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by the way i still think that fs3 (or call it as you prefer) as a sequel of the main storyline can be done, even if not done by :v:
a huge community project with the collaboration of all the best modders, possibly that use in game the best ships created in the years in this community+ others created ad hoc, choosing those that are not only nice but that also fit the fsverse design, a story that will be considererd by all the community as part of the official continuity (in order to adapt the plots of the future mods)
an huge project that not only will add some ships + create some missions/campaigns but a mod that will cover almost ANY aspect of modding (so if possibly something also for sounds, anis, interface etc)
a project that will take advantage of an extensive use of source code modifications, so that will be the best spot possible for the source code project..since they are asking for creating artwork in order to make their source upgrades interesting and useful, why don't build a whole new project to show its potentials?
a project that may eventually collapse with the multiplayer mod of aldo, in order to have this one as the multiplayer side of "fs3" and make the whole product more interesting and complete
a project that for all these reasons should/must benefit of the efforts of a lot of persons from the community..a "community project" as said before, a project that will also REPRESENT the community
surely a project that can't be done by few or just decided by only one's mood (nothing personal guy) but something that should born from a lot of discussion from the whole community
as said the whole community + the source code proj may get benefits out of a project like that
it would be not simply a mod but something near to an entire new game, brought to the world by the fsmodding community
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Originally posted by KARMA
...a huge community project with the collaboration of all the best modders...
... won't get done. It would suffer from the worst effects of Open Source Syndrome (ie, someone else will handle that, or I'm too busy right now, or what you don't like it? I'll take my mods and go home!) while not encouraging any of the benefits of Open Source Syndrome.
...a story that will be considererd by all the community as part of the official continuity (in order to adapt the plots of the future mods)
I'll tell you what. You go ask the ENTIRE community. All of them. not just the HLPers, nor the VBBers, but the japanese FS modders and the independent modders who don't hang out in any of the established places. When you're done, get back to me. ;)
...a "community project" as said before, a project that will also REPRESENT the community...
Community projects aren't. Search the Freespace Forever forum for comments by DaveB. He expands on this exact point very eloquently. In fact, this one: This thread, first post by DaveB. (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,6966.0.html) He's talking about writing an engine from scratch, but realistically its the SAME THING. You're talking about creating a huge project to be Freespace3 and depending on a disorganised bunch of freaks on the internet to do it. Um... hello? A campaign mod is one thing, but a studio quality release that could be taken as a sequel to a well loved game? I think you overestimate your chances.
That's just a first blush response. Next time, punctuate and use proper grammar. It'll make my job easier.
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without reading this as there are more posts than i have fingers;
Snow, just make your super cool campaign that you have in mind, and then throw in a totally clever/and or obscure title just like the rest of us. I think all of the campaigns here set after capella are basically the creators version of "FS3".
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I like the idea, like it a lot. The community needs an ambitious project like this to unify it, a campaign that will appeal to everyone, not just Babylon 5 fans or Star Wars fans. The most important question here, though, is do you have the time and the motivation? For time, I would guess at the very least an hour every day would be necessary, probably 2. Coordinating a project of the size you're talking about will require that kind of time.
Motivation is another important aspect. You must be willing to work on the campaign even if there seems to be no progress for months on end. You can't go around, gathering support and then one month later end up terminating the campaign because you lost interest.
The real problem comes from all the nay-sayers in the community, who will never support a project named Freespace 3, and clamor about how it's no different from any other user-made campaign, saying that only Volition can make the true Freespace 3. They point out that this has been tried before, many times, and each time has failed.
Don't listen to them.
There's no way for anyone to make a Freespace 3 that will satisfy everyone, least of all Volition. Everyone has their own expectations after years of waiting. Many people are more interested in finishing their own campaigns, which they've worked on for a year or years before throwing in with a campaign idea that's as risky as this one.
If you really want to try and make a Freespace 3 campaign, go ahead. It might be better to call it Freespace 2: Answers to avoid the knee-jerk reaction that people have to Freespace 3, but if you truly want to name it Freespace 3, name it Freespace 3.
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Originally posted by WMCoolmon
I like the idea, like it a lot. The community needs an ambitious project like this to unify it, a campaign that will appeal to everyone, not just Babylon 5 fans or Star Wars fans. The most important question here, though, is do you have the time and the motivation? For time, I would guess at the very least an hour every day would be necessary, probably 2. Coordinating a project of the size you're talking about will require that kind of time.
Motivation is another important aspect. You must be willing to work on the campaign even if there seems to be no progress for months on end. You can't go around, gathering support and then one month later end up terminating the campaign because you lost interest.
Building a campaign takes MONTHS, even YEARS. WMCoolmon is NOT lying when he says it's a substantial time commitment. My own campaign isn't slated to be ready until Fall 2004. That's how much of a commitment you need to have, Hotsnoj. If you can't be sure that you won't see it through to the end, don't bother making this campaign.
Originally posted by WMCoolmon
There's no way for anyone to make a Freespace 3 that will satisfy everyone, least of all Volition. Everyone has their own expectations after years of waiting. Many people are more interested in finishing their own campaigns, which they've worked on for a year or years before throwing in with a campaign idea that's as risky as this one.
Listen to him, Snoj. He knows what he's talking about. Many campaigns have come and gone with barely a whisper. Without the proper preaparation and commitment, yours will disappear as well.
Originally posted by WMCoolmon
If you really want to try and make a Freespace 3 campaign, go ahead. It might be better to call it Freespace 2: Answers to avoid the knee-jerk reaction that people have to Freespace 3, but if you truly want to name it Freespace 3, name it Freespace 3.
If you truly want to offend and alienate the entire FS Community from your campaign, call it FS3. Nothing will break out the flamethowers than for you to be so pretentious and arrogant as to claim your campaign is the official successor to FS2.
HELLO??? HELLO??? NO ONE WANTS TO SEE A USER-MADE CAMPAIGN INAUTHENTICALLY MASQUERADE AS FS3! SO DON'T EVEN TRY!
Snoj, go play the original FS2 campaign. Become familiar with its story. THEN draft your own story. You'll HAVE TO draft your story before you do ANYTHING else to create your campaign. Otherwise, you'll have nothing but a bunch of disjointed and haphazardly connected missions that don't blend into anything resembling a story with a beginning, middle and end. Once you've crafted a story, THEN you go out and recruit people to help you create the campaign. This is what I did to create DatDB.
Most importantly, you have to have a coherent vision of what you want. Six months ago, DatDB was nothing but a gleam in my eye. Then I removed my contact lens and got to work. It took me weeks just to organize my vision of DatDB. And I had to write it all down on Word, just so I could refer to it and refine it as I went. DatDB has been in the works for 6 months now and I still haven't finished scripting it yet. From what I gather, you have a great deal of work to do before you make even this much progress on your own project. You haven't even played the original game yet.
Snoj, pal, there is ALOT more to creating a campaign than just blowing hot air on an Internet forum. Don't waste time making grandiose claims here. Just get to work.
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You see I think there should be a main story. All the other MOD's are sub-stories. This would be the main story.
I want this to be the most secret MOD ever!
I also want this MOD to be made fast but polished at the same time.
wow.. all i can do is laugh very loudly.. enough to get the attention of my parents and just tell them that i have never seen anything so amusing in 3 days. next to the Bonsai-Kitten's that is
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if you're going to call it freespace 3... contact V, I'd like to find out what they were planning for freespace 3. Find that out, and go from there.
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On Entire Community Projects -
When it began, Twisted Infinities was a community project - not the entire FS community of course, just F2S. It gained support because it was suggested as such - a community based campaign, set after FS2, which might answer a few questions - in short just like any other campaign. However, I really started to have trouble when it came to deciding how to do it - if a community project is not entirely open to the entire community, then it's not really a community project, but if it is, by the end you have a beautiful piece of Freespace work - which nobody wants to play, because they've already seen it. In TIs case, we opted to have a core staff of about 6, but subcontract out a lot of mods, ask for mission suggestions, see what people prioritize in their ships etc. etc. Of course, that never happened because F2S closed down, but my point is community wide projects are very, very difficult to run.
By the way, as long as I'm here anyway, I'd like to point out the similarities between this situation and the one Icefire created when he suggested Paradigm Shift. Unlike this one however, Icefire recieved offers of assistance and praise almost immediately. Now I do acknowledge that Icefire has been with the FS community longer, proven his skills in the past etc. etc., but I still think that the feeling on this thread is at least partially a direct result of (relative) newbie bashing.
Not goinmg to say anything more, just think about it.
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There will not be a FS3.
Please ensure this message is bumped at all times.
Just kidding :)
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Originally posted by HotSnoJ
This is what I currently know about FS2. The Shivans come back. We beat them. Knossos tech make it possible to make subspace paths. Do I remember correctly? Does that sum up FS2?
Um... no. If you are going to do this I suggest you play FS2 again and take notes. If you want to supply answers you must make sure you have your facts right.
1. We didnt win, the Shevians let us off with a supernova for some reason.
2. We blew up the Knossos gate but have scans of how it work.
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Originally posted by mikhael
so you just think ppl should not look further than simple campaigns/mods some nice some less that only few will play, even inside the community, since we are only internet freaks with no chance to do something more complex
ok, this is your idea, but remember to go to the scp forum and tell them to stop what they are doing, before continue loosing their time in an useless project
stop them from trying to adapt the source code of the demo in order to have mods releasble as a stand alone exe
stop randomtiger from trying to upgrade the artwork side of fs2 in order to make the source code changes more evident
and go also to the b5 mod forum (and the other "big" projects too) to stop them since they are doing a project that they are not able to do...and they still haven't noticed it!!!
and personally i don't see what sense has the daveb post (that i already knew) about this, i mean.....
he was talking about a far FAR bigger project with people that not only didn't exactly knew if they had the capabilities to do it but that they also were starting the project from the end instead of from the beginning
Except for the suggestion to do "baby steps" that is pretty obvious and works almost everywhere all the discussion has nothing to do with what i was talking about: 1- i was just throwing a little stone in the lake and more important 2- we already know a lot about how to do things (no one specifically but the entire community does), how to mod the game, and if you talk about the level of artwork, althought we are little poor internet freaks there are, THERE ARE people capable of working if not at the same level of official games at least very close to, and models of that level have been already released sometimes...so my friend more than a problem of abilities it will be a problem of amount of time and efforts
And the scp changes are already in progress, indipendently from this fool project, so it will receive benefits from an improoved engine, somehow different from the fs2 one (so technically it won't be "simply" a mod), probably it will also be released as standalone exe.
and if this will happen it will make it more similar to an entire new game than a mod.....(this will be true for ANY mod)
And what's wrong with building an ideal sequel to the fs2 story? although undoubtly unofficial if the project will be done at an enough good quality level and will have enough (little) success (people like "free games") it will surely become a referring point
Don't you like the idea of a sequel?
ok no problem
lets build an indipendent/parallel storyline
Damn! Its 20 years that LEC is living creating parallel storylines from the main trilogy...a stupid example, the first thing that comes in my mind: an entire battlegroup is caught behind enemy lines from the destruction of the jumpnodes, the story follow their attempt to find a way to home facing shivans and trying to survive, there will be no bosh fate, no knossos to earth, no investigation about shivans origins, no new attack of shivans to gtva...
Yes, to be possible community support and large discussion about the story should be needed...its OBVIOUS that a large discussion involving ALL the community is impossible, this is the only point of your post with some sense, community IS disorganized and fragmented......ok, lets put together a team (maybe voting) that will study the story and organize all the efforts, paying attention to all the contributes, is this so impossible? i don't think so, community is surely disorganized and fragmented, but not SO disorganized and not SO fragmented, or the SCP project would be never begun pal..........
Yes a lot of work will be needed....but a lot of ships will be the same of fs2 (at least..those that appeared in the demo)..maybe they will require to be adapted to higher heights.....plus some new ships....i was saying to collect the best ships done by community....the ones at excellent quality and with fsverse style...i can think of at least 5-6 fighters and 2 maybe 3 capitalships that already have this standard done in the last year...and maybe there are others that i don't know....yes new models will be needed...but not SO MANY......
Yes, a lot of artwork job will be anyway required for all the aspects of the project (maybe it will be impossible to do everything), never said the opposite nor i'd like it to be different......but i won't surely call it impossible...maybe long, maybe difficult, but surely not impossible
For example i was suggesting to collapse aldos multiplayer mod with this project...it will work fine as the multiplayer side of this "game" and both projects will benefit from the efforts for the other one.....
i still see something surely difficult and long, but nothing impossible......
oh, and a little tip....even aside from modding....saying "no, its impossible" to everything usually brings you.....nowhere;)
oh and sorry for bad english;)
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Thank you again all for your criticizing. It is very much appreciated.
Is all this nay saying about the name FS3? I suppose it is.
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I think the idea is pretty much simple,.....NOONE could claim there mod to be "FS3" unless Voilition gave them the story.
What if I go make a mod, have hellishly kickass new ships added,...make it 60 + missions with 4 different mission trees depending on different mission outcomes, and the main story line was that the Shivan were controlled by a race of blue intersteller pigmy rabbits ? ? If I choose to name it FS3 would ppl accept it as the Cannon sequel to the series because I put the time effort and skills into making it ?
A Mod is a mod is a mod,....the fact is ONLY V could make FS3. Persoanlly I think it's egotisical that anyone claim to be able to create a sequel forthe series.
Karma,...using SW is a great example,...you forgot one thing...Lucas has told every company what limits they have and where they can 'tread' within the storyline. If I recall there were several gaps in the time line that Darkhorse comics did because Lucas told them they were not allowed to "write that history" sort of speak. So comparing SW stories to user made MODs for FS doesn't really hold up buddy. Lucas and or his affliates give input into such stories,...Volition can't give us anything, thus nothing we ever do can honestly be concidered cannon.
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Originally posted by HotSnoJ
Thank you again all for your criticizing. It is very much appreciated.
Is all this nay saying about the name FS3? I suppose it is.
Perhaps drop the name, its causing you too much trouble if you ask me.
I like the idea of a supermod, given all the skilled people here I know we could do something really good but do we have the ability to keep a large project like this together for long enough to finish it?
TBP and SCP are in their different ways very focused projects while something like this everything would be up for debate.
I would also like to see a few more normal MOD's finished first.
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Uh, you really aren't listening. The name isn't the real problem- it's a couple of words to identify the thing, and while you'll piss some people off by being pretentious, in the end it isn't really a major hurdle.
The problem is the whole "bestest campaign ever" syndrome. This sort of effort might work if you were a semiprofessional with a semipro staff who was really dedicated, but it isn't. You're a relative newbie who's never actually played the game he wants to mod, who hasn't taken the time to accumulate any real skills yet, having pipe dreams about being able to command a massive team of workers towards an end that generally takes on the order of years. Dream on. You couldn't even propose your campaign without generating flames, how do you think you're gonna control a staff? Even if some massive project were to go underway, it'd be by someone who'd built up a good bit of a rep here first, and knew how to boss people around without making everyone leave.
Wait a while. Work on others' campaigns, get some familiarity with your programs, learn something about the community you want to control. You ain't gonna write Shakespeare the first time you set pen to paper, and you ain't gonna make even a competent campaign, never mind a good one, never mind THE ULTIMATE CAMPAIGN [cue flash of lightning, reverb], if you have no experience at all in the field.
I highly don't recommend starting a campaign now, as it's mostly a waste of time except as a way to build some humility. You won't get much out of it, you'll end up losing a lot of free time and whatever social life you'll have, and you'll end up embittered and no wiser at the end because you can't get any staff and don't know what you're doing enough to even try to go it alone. I should know, I did it twice before I figured it out.
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I like this thread, Im finding this all very interesting. Five stars.
To newbies I say: 'FS3' is a very dangerous thing to say in just about any context on these boards.
To HotSnoJ I say: Given that you havent even played the game all the way through, know what happens or what its all about and that (if what I have read elsewhere is correct) you havent lead a mod or even done anything anyone seems to remember on one.
Given all this you are not at this time the 'right' person to suggest or implement such a plan. If you truely want to do this you should start your own small MOD and learn what you need from that and then I think you will understand why some of these people are giving you so much grief.
If it makes you feel any better, recently I have had some epic ideas on something I'd like to do with FS2, however my reality control will for now keep this as a nice idea in the back of my head until I see a chance for it.
To everyone else:
I guess this has brought up some interesting questions, what do we want from this community? How much can it deliver? Can we do anything really big (on the scale HotSnoJ suggests)? Could we ever finish it? Utimately how long will this all last anyway?
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Well ...after ppl complete the current mods a group effort with members from many of the current campaign teams could produce a huge MOD/Campaign. Just imagine if the teams from the top 3-6 campaigns teamed up once they completed the ones in production now.
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Originally posted by Warlock
Well ...after ppl complete the current mods a group effort with members from many of the current campaign teams could produce a huge MOD/Campaign. Just imagine if the teams from the top 3-6 campaigns teamed up once they completed the ones in production now.
:)
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Originally posted by RandomTiger
To everyone else:
I guess this has brought up some interesting questions, what do we want from this community? How much can it deliver? Can we do anything really big (on the scale HotSnoJ suggests)? Could we ever finish it? Utimately how long will this all last anyway?
i already said what i think in my precedent reply,
specifically about me in my case swmod has precedence but i will surely collaborate with ideas and with artwork when i'll have time and whenever i will think the project will be worth to (like i think of multiplayer mod)
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Originally posted by Warlock
Well ...after ppl complete the current mods a group effort with members from many of the current campaign teams could produce a huge MOD/Campaign. Just imagine if the teams from the top 3-6 campaigns teamed up once they completed the ones in production now.
Which would be the top 3-6 campaigns anyway? The ones with the best chance of becoming 'FS 2.996634'? BWO would obviously get in there, and OTT possibly - what else?
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Originally posted by Black Wolf
Which would be the top 3-6 campaigns anyway? The ones with the best chance of becoming 'FS 2.996634'? BWO would obviously get in there, and OTT possibly - what else?
The best ones will be the ones that get finished without feeling like people lost interest in the end and maintained quality all the way through.
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Originally posted by Black Wolf
Which would be the top 3-6 campaigns anyway? The ones with the best chance of becoming 'FS 2.996634'? BWO would obviously get in there, and OTT possibly - what else?
Paradigm Shift (when it kicks into gear). Machina Terra, if it's ever finished. I'd be vain and say Reciprocity ;7 , but it's far too far from what would be semi-canon to count :) :nod:
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I didn't name the best for a reason. The idea was imagine if the ones YOU think are the best teamed up. It was merely my way to get everyone to imagine the potential this community has as a whole. :D
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Originally posted by Warlock
I didn't name the best for a reason. The idea was imagine if the ones YOU think are the best teamed up. It was merely my way to get everyone to imagine the potential this community has as a whole. :D
Ah - makes sense now. I agree we have a lot of potential - not frequenting many other forums I really don't have a lot to compare FS2 work to, but it does strike me that we have alot of quality here. If someone was a capable enough leader, we'd produce something special, no doubt. Problem is, FS2's a relatively rare game - we wouldn't get the exposure that, say, a Half Life mod gets.
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I guess I should have keep my mouth shut. :no smilely to show this emotion:
But I can garantee that I'll be back to have this thought opened up again. ;7
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Originally posted by aldo_14
I'd be vain and say Reciprocity ;7 , but it's far too far from what would be semi-canon to count :) :nod:
Dude, with me FREDding, Reciprocity is going to be the offical Dog's Bollocks, as we say round these parts...
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So modest aren't we?:doubt:
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Dude, with me FREDding, Reciprocity is going to be the offical Dog's Bollocks, as we say round these parts...
oh, you have not seen anything yet; wait until the end of this year... ;7
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I will try to puzzle out the meaning behind these english-like words and form a coherent response to incoherent babbling.
Originally posted by KARMA
so you just think ppl should not look further than simple campaigns/mods some nice some less that only few will play, even inside the community,
since we are only internet freaks with no chance to do something more complex
Can you point me to the part of my statement that says anything remotely resembling this? I think not. Go read my post again. Then, when you're sober, read it AGAIN.
ok, this is your idea, but remember to go to the scp forum and tell them to stop what they are doing, before continue loosing their time in an useless project
They're organanized. They're not trying to make FS3. They're adapting an engine that someone else wrote and they're doing it well. Why should anyone make them stop? What they're doing is working.
stop them from trying to adapt the source code of the demo in order to have mods releasble as a stand alone exe
stop randomtiger from trying to upgrade the artwork side of fs2 in order to make the source code changes more evident
Um.. why? See my previous note.
and go also to the b5 mod forum (and the other "big" projects too) to stop them since they are doing a project that they are not able to do...and they still haven't noticed it!!!
See you prove my point. A group of people are focused on something and they're getting it done. They're not making Freespace3. They're making a mod of which they can be proud and other people can enjoy. Notice, however, that they're getting things done. Also, see my response to the SCP thing up top.
and personally i don't see what sense has the daveb post (that i already knew) about this, i mean.....
he was talking about a far FAR bigger project with people that not only didn't exactly knew if they had the capabilities to do it but that they also were starting the project from the end instead of from the beginning
Go read what DaveB said, and this time, let it percolate through your brain. Pay special attention to the bit about "great internet project that never comes to fruition". Then go read what HotSnoJ said about "BIGGEST BESTEST SECRETEST CAMPAIGN EVAR!" Then compare THAT to what DaveB said. If its still not clear, there is no makinng you see sense.
...nonsesical ranting compressed to this line...
And the scp changes are already in progress, indipendently from this fool project, so it will receive benefits from an improoved engine, somehow different from the fs2 one (so technically it won't be "simply" a mod), probably it will also be released as standalone exe.
and if this will happen it will make it more similar to an entire new game than a mod.....(this will be true for ANY mod)
And all that adds up to is... a mod using a tweaked engine. If I make a Quake2 mod using tweaked source code for the Quake2 engine, would that be Quake4? Somehow, I think not. In fact, I'd say it was "a Quake2 mod using a tweaked Quake2 engine".
And what's wrong with building an ideal sequel to the fs2 story? although undoubtly unofficial if the project will be done at an enough good quality level and will have enough (little) success (people like "free games") it will surely become a referring point
There's nothing wrong with Volition creating a sequel to Freespace2. As for "ideal", I refer you back to my earlier comment. You go out and ask each and every member of the world wide Freespace "community" just exactly what they think is "ideal" and then we'll get started straight away. Honest.
...random nonsensical babbling about some non-sequel that wouldn't be freespace anyway removed...
...summary of more nonsensical ranting: the community is fragmentary and disjointed...
i don't think so, community is surely disorganized and fragmented, but not SO disorganized and not SO fragmented, or the SCP project would be never begun pal..........
The SCP, it seems to me, has a core of about 6, maybe 8, main coders, and a bunch of people writing wishlists--the same wishlists people were writing ages back right before FS2 came out. The only difference is now thos people have hope that their wishlists will be implemented by a kindhearted coder. You seem to be very confused on this point.
...random ranting about what would be needed removed. It wasn't cogent to the discussion...
oh and sorry for bad english;)
No problem. I suggest using a text editor with a grammar checker. Write your comment there, check it, then paste it here. It will save me much time in translation.
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Originally posted by Hades
So modest aren't we?:doubt:
I'm afraid I'm not familiar with that word... and don't worry, you'll get to play some of my stuff soon enough :D
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Look, even if V made FS3 and people didn't like the result others would re-make it as a mod and call it FS3 anyway so get over it. Likely no "official FS3" will ever be made (unless i win the lottery, buy the rights from THQ, and hire the HLP forum members (get to work you slackers! ) ;)
If you played FS2, understand the history of the story, and have some creative ideas to advance the storyline then just do it! Call it FS3 if you want (but include a attachment): FS3 (the continuation), or whatever (The Reckoning) ect... Simply calling it FS3 will set itself up for the most intense scrutiny and criticism as then it must live up to what has come before (gameplay, story, features)... Give yourself an "Out" by making it a mod.
Umm someone mentioned 'small' projects? I see nothing small about Gundam TC , or Beyond Redemption. True the SAAB collaboration is tiny and unofficial but has good potential (I am doing wave captures (giggle). AS for a 'super mod' , I am making a video off of the mission I fredded that pits the Borg against the best of all the universes. (I figured out how to do a soundtrack without having to pause recording, minimze, start winamp-song, go back into game , record. My playlist thingy never worked right, now I put 4 or 5 songs (with appropriate 'dead air waves to space them out' matching what is supposed to happen in game. I am doing this to (1) show all the Battlecry people that we got something just as good (if not better) from a 4 year old game!, (2) To show people in my area what has been done with FS2 and how fresh it can still be, and (3) cause it's just so darn fun and finally I have a game I always dreamed about playing. Now if only the Star Trek peeps would come back!
Have you ever heard Holloween techno? Imagine that song starting while Gamma Wing is doing routine deep space patrol. slowly untrackable fighters appear (nightmare ships) they destroy gamma as they franticly call for help)... Aldo does great stuff! Later in a mission where the alliance is tricked into a system with a black hole and is forced to engage near the event horizon Iron Maiden's "Still Life" - Nightmare theme plays... Woohoo I'm ranting!!!
:wink:
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:drevil:
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Originally posted by Star Dragon
Look, even if V made FS3 and people didn't like the result others would re-make it as a mod and call it FS3 anyway
You sir, are full of spacecrack.
You don't see people who didn't like FS2 making their own "FS2", do you? No, didn't think so.
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Originally posted by mikhael
look, althought the overall discussion became pretty interesting our is turning in just a "mine is longer than your" challenge;), and since it's a game that i don't like, since i think that internet forum disputes degenerate too easily and since i'm not sure the other users will like it i'll stop it here
i'll try to ignore you and i hope you will do the same with me, if you want to continue our discussion ok, no problem, but let's use private messages or mail
karma out
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Originally posted by ZylonBane
You sir, are full of spacecrack.
You don't see people who didn't like FS2 making their own "FS2", do you? No, didn't think so.
I totally agree. If we didn't like fs3, then we'd complain, and make MODs for it. But we'd never remake it.
Anyway, I ALMOST hope an fs3 never comes out. Because if it does, then fs2 will be left dead. The SCP will stop, and as will almost all the MODs for fs2. Everybody will pester for the source to fs3. Overall, it would be almost bad if fs3 ever came out.
Though if it did, then losing all these MODs would be worth it.:D
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Originally posted by Hades
I totally agree. If we didn't like fs3, then we'd complain, and make MODs for it. But we'd never remake it.
Anyway, I ALMOST hope an fs3 never comes out. Because if it does, then fs2 will be left dead. The SCP will stop, and as will almost all the MODs for fs2. Everybody will pester for the source to fs3. Overall, it would be almost bad if fs3 ever came out.
Though if it did, then losing all these MODs would be worth it.:D
Did you not read anything I said about the source? I said we were going to work off of the SCP. With only a few changes.
Anyone interested joining?? Me and the the other guy (I don't think he wants his name displayed with FS3, heck I don't know his screen name) have a semi-done background story. Needs a little more work and more add-ons to make it look good. :nod:
[edit] I takeback my comment on trying to get this done ASAP. Just as long as I have people who will work when they can/will I'm happy.
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I'm definately against this, completely. It won't end good at all.
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i doubt it will even start good.
here's an idea. Conformatity can be a good thing.
Make a bloody campaign like the rest of us, but don't go and call it "What FS3 would really be like." That comes off as just plain arrogant and rude to me, and I can't imagin how annoying it may be to some of the more knowledged and older members of the FS Community. You are setting yourself up to fail by calling your campaign FS3. I don't care how good of a modder or campaign writer or whatever you may be, you are directly putting your work next to that of V's and it will more likely than not look like a joke or you will get people ten times more annoyed than myself.
I'll let you in on a little writers secret and i guess it is a sort of inside secret among the community seeing as how it went right over your head. You can avoid all of this flak with one, simple, step. Drop the arrogant FS3 title and give it something more ... oh , creative? You can make a campaign sound really good with a kickass name (see Inferno, Machina Terra, Devil and the Deep Blue, etc.) and people will actually want to play it.
Seriously, try it out. People might see what you are trying to do in a new light.