Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Grey Wolf on November 22, 2002, 05:14:10 pm
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I was just wondering what opinion you all have on the status of the 6 northern counties. Do you feel they should stay with the UK, or join with the Republic of Ireland?
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Why are you asking us? It's up to THEM. Think of Western Virginia, which split off from Virginia in the American Civil War; they went and did their own thing. Nobody forced them to.
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I was just wondering what everyone's opinion is. Does asking for an opinion hurt them at all? I think not.
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It would be simple if the whole population decided one way or the other. But since they are split, there is no easy way to decide- thus the rather protracted and seemingly useless peace process (note "Seemingly" useless, in that here in Britain, all you hear about are the collapses in the proceedings).
I sometimes think that our troops should pull out all together, but that would not only lead to violence in Ireland, but on the mainland as well. I personally don't think power sharing is the way forwards either- the representatives from one side or the other are always trying to get one over the others... suprisingly like modern democracy all over the world, on closer consideration. But still, the hostilities there are just under the skin, and are liable to break free.
It is definatly a conundrum, for which I have no answer. maybe power sharing is the way forwards, but I personally don't see much coming of it unless they put aside their differences. And, well, I'd probably be more likely to see Satan skating to work than that.
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I really don't think it's a good idea to start with this stuff. We've all seen what this 'discussion' has done to Ireland since 1916... bleh, it's bad enough having to cope with the situation in real life than drag it in here (though if Mr Blair asked me, I'd tell him to put Ireland back like it was before we invaded it, and say sorry for the whole affair).
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Almost unrelated, but did you know in Ireland, there is a castle O'Dea(which is my surname).
Um, the hostilities arent under the skin, their pretty open, hence the riots you get. I dont think its really a good thing to discuss. Its too close to home.
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I reckon they should just hold a referendum nd find out what the people actually want.......
What a revolutionary idea, eh? Actually asking the people what they want...it'll never catch on
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What ever is chosen, though, you're gonna make at least one lot of paramilltaries even more cross with the whole thing. Seems like the government has decided it'd be easier just to let the whole big mess of a situation rumble on, on a sort of 'if we poke it, it might get worse' sort of mentality...
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Originally posted by aldo_14
I reckon they should just hold a referendum nd find out what the people actually want.......
What a revolutionary idea, eh? Actually asking the people what they want...it'll never catch on
Good in theory, bad in practice. You see the main loyalist/unionist politicians ((the ones who want to stay with the UK) - for all those who aren't sure about who's who.) Will never agree to let the south (republic) have any vote in what happens to the north. Currently they represent the slight majority of the population (the unionist and loyalist people). If you let the republic of Ireland have a say in what happens to N. Ireland then you suddenly have a vast majority of nationalists who would vote to make the country united.
The unionists currently posess the highest ranking jobs and positions with few exceptions so they basically run the country. They also have the backing of the British government which means that any nationalist (person who wants a united Ireland) is basically powerless unless he/she decides to blow something up which as I'm sure we can all agree is not exactly the most PR friendly thing to do.
On top of all the political word wars you have splinter factions of loyalist and nationalist terrorists doing a great job of making the rest of us feel more than a little anxious. Loyalists will kill any catholics/nationalists whilst the IRA splinter factions will kill military targets (and believe me 'military target' is a remarkably wide target criteria i.e. they killed the guy who cleaned the local police station). Both sides also are in essence mafia style organised crime syndicates and hand out any number of beatings, shootings and killings that they deem appropriate (thieves and joyriders are prime targets).
Where am I in all this mess? Sitting on the fence keeping my mouth shut. :sigh:
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Originally posted by Maeglamor
Good in theory, bad in practice. You see the main loyalist/unionist politicians ((the ones who want to stay with the UK) - for all those who aren't sure about who's who.) Will never agree to let the south (republic) have any vote in what happens to the north. Currently they represent the slight majority of the population (the unionist and loyalist people). If you let the republic of Ireland have a say in what happens to N. Ireland then you suddenly have a vast majority of nationalists who would vote to make the country united.
Um... I meant a referendum in Northern Ireland to ask the people there which country they'd rather be on. The only rason I can see against this is that neither faction can guarentee they'll win.
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Originally posted by aldo_14
I reckon they should just hold a referendum nd find out what the people actually want.......
What a revolutionary idea, eh? Actually asking the people what they want...it'll never catch on
iirc they did a while ago (some decades i think):the result was to remain with the UK.
Ireland itself has given up the claim to N-Ireland
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Churchill had the right idea. *cough* Black and Tans *cough*
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Originally posted by vyper
Churchill had the right idea. *cough* Black and Tans *cough*
That's not funny, in fact it's pretty appauling.
How would you like it if a guy came around to your house and beat the crap out of you for something your neighbour did? That in essence is pretty much what the Black and Tans did.
Indirect revenge, wonderful concept. Let's all hope it catches on...
:confused:
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Originally posted by Maeglamor
That's not funny, in fact it's pretty appauling.
How would you like it if a guy came around to your house and beat the crap out of you for something your neighbour did? That in essence is pretty much what the Black and Tans did.
Indirect revenge, wonderful concept. Let's all hope it catches on...
:confused:
Thats a tad over-simplified.
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Originally posted by Crazy_Ivan80
iirc they did a while ago (some decades i think):the result was to remain with the UK.
Ireland itself has given up the claim to N-Ireland
No such event ever occurred. The unionists would never allow a referendum to happen unless they had a guarantee that they would win.
BTW aldo, any change in the status of northern Ireland would directly affect the republic as it would have aprox. 1 million new citizens, the implications on goverment, security and welfare of the entire country are pretty significant. How can you allow the republic's people to have no say in it?
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Originally posted by vyper
Thats a tad over-simplified.
I didn't want to jump headfirst into a history lesson and I think it gets the general concept across.
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Originally posted by Maeglamor
No such event ever occurred. The unionists would never allow a referendum to happen unless they had a guarantee that they would win.
Oh righty.... *abandons argument* :doubt:
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Originally posted by Maeglamor
No such event ever occurred. The unionists would never allow a referendum to happen unless they had a guarantee that they would win.
BTW aldo, any change in the status of northern Ireland would directly affect the republic as it would have aprox. 1 million new citizens, the implications on goverment, security and welfare of the entire country are pretty significant. How can you allow the republic's people to have no say in it?
I'm really just talking over settling the issues in N.Ireland. If the vote turned out to be pro joining Eire, then it would then be up to Ireland if they wished to take on N.Ireland or not.... but you have to find out what the people of Northern Ireland to make any meaningful progress.
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Originally posted by aldo_14
I'm really just talking over settling the issues in N.Ireland. If the vote turned out to be pro joining Eire, then it would then be up to Ireland if they wished to take on N.Ireland or not.... but you have to find out what the people of Northern Ireland to make any meaningful progress.
I wish it could be that simple, the vast majority of people here genuinely want peace. Extremists are allowed to effect the way the country is run though so the rest of us basically have no real power. :sigh:
Even though there is a peaceful majority a lot of problems would still come from trying to remove, form or change current alliances with UK or the republic.
Personally I think N. Ireland should be it's own country, somewhat like scotland in fact.
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Originally posted by Maeglamor
Personally I think N. Ireland should be it's own country, somewhat like scotland in fact.
Sorry to point this out, but the country of Scotland and the country of England ceased to exist due to the Act of Union. Hence, your statement is contradictory.
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Originally posted by Grey Wolf 2009
Sorry to point this out, but the country of Scotland and the country of England ceased to exist due to the Act of Union. Hence, your statement is contradictory.
Not technically true. Both countries exist with thier own culture, national dress, capitals, etc. It was thier governments (being very similar) that were joined together. This was a natural event to follow the crowns being merged in the years before.
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Originally posted by vyper
Not technically true. Both countries exist with thier own culture, national dress, capitals, etc. It was thier governments (being very similar) that were joined together. This was a natural event to follow the crowns being merged in the years before.
Yes, but he referred to N.I. being independent like Scotland, but Scotland is NOT independent.
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Ignoring the fact EIRE dosnt want NI because it would crash back into poverty (hurrah for an economy propped up by EU grants!) the Catholic population in NI is increasing FAR faster then the Protestent thanks to the Popes brilliant stance on contraception.
So when they actually hold a referendum in 50 years time youl have a 51% catholic majority..... thats saying all the Catholics want to join with EIRE a sizeble portion dont (the business men etc.)
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Originally posted by Mr Carrot
Ignoring the fact EIRE dosnt want NI because it would crash back into poverty (hurrah for an economy propped up by EU grants!) the Catholic population in NI is increasing FAR faster then the Protestent thanks to the Popes brilliant stance on contraception.
So when they actually hold a referendum in 50 years time youl have a 51% catholic majority..... thats saying all the Catholics want to join with EIRE a sizeble portion dont (the business men etc.)
[color=33ff00]Indeed, there are a lot of catholic unionists. :nod:
BTW GW I think independant was the wrong term to use, 'governmentally independant' is what I should have said. Basically what we had until a short time ago, pity nobody could get along, it just became a power battle between the unionists and nationalists. :rolleyes: [/color]
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Let us use the catholic solution....... kill 'em all and let god sort them out.
:nervous:
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Originally posted by Shrike
Let us use the catholic solution....... kill 'em all and let god sort them out.
:nervous:
[color=33ff00]and I thought you didn't believe in God. :lol: [/color]
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:wtf: :mad: Are you trying to offend me Shrike?
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Read your history. That quote was said by a Catholic general, as he ordered the slaughter of an entire town that contained protestants.
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Originally posted by Zeronet
:wtf: :mad: Are you trying to offend me Shrike?
[color=33ff00]I think he's just playing the irony card since he's not in any way religious, well except when it comes to goth chicks... :nod:
EDIT: See ^ :)
[/color]
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I just felt like being offended, goes with my bad mood.
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Originally posted by Maeglamor
[color=33ff00]I think he's just playing the irony card since he's not in any way religious, well except when it comes to goth chicks... :nod: [/color]
That's more like objects of lust, not worship. Although if they're close enough to perfection, I'd genuflect at the bodie's temple, if you know what I mean..... ;7
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Shrike, stop playing with him ;)
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no no no
"why is this room hot? cold is gods way of telling us to burn more catholics!"
gg black adder :P
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Originally posted by Thunder
Shrike, stop playing with him ;)
Aww.............