Hard Light Productions Forums

Off-Topic Discussion => Arts & Talents => Topic started by: mikhael on November 24, 2002, 09:23:14 pm

Title: Hercules Mk1 WIP(?)
Post by: mikhael on November 24, 2002, 09:23:14 pm
Not too well pleased with how this one came out, but I'll show it anyway to get some opinions. I'm well aware of EVERYTHING that's missing. I'll strive to make it as accurate to the texture as I can (that's the obligitory thing for the Council of something or other authenticy and accuracy whatsit thingo).

(http://home.nc.rr.com/mikhael/Herc-Mk1-01-sm.jpg) (http://home.nc.rr.com/mikhael/Herc-Mk1-01.jpg)(http://home.nc.rr.com/mikhael/Herc-Mk1-02-sm.jpg) (http://home.nc.rr.com/mikhael/Herc-Mk1-02.jpg)(http://home.nc.rr.com/mikhael/Herc-Mk1-03-sm.jpg) (http://home.nc.rr.com/mikhael/Herc-Mk1-03.jpg)(http://home.nc.rr.com/mikhael/Herc-Mk1-04-sm.jpg) (http://home.nc.rr.com/mikhael/Herc-Mk1-04.jpg)(http://home.nc.rr.com/mikhael/Herc-Mk1-05-sm.jpg) (http://home.nc.rr.com/mikhael/Herc-Mk1-05.jpg)(http://home.nc.rr.com/mikhael/Herc-Mk1-06-sm.jpg) (http://home.nc.rr.com/mikhael/Herc-Mk1-06.jpg)(http://home.nc.rr.com/mikhael/Herc-Mk1-07-sm.jpg) (http://home.nc.rr.com/mikhael/Herc-Mk1-07.jpg)

It needs lots of surface detail and its actually a touch larger almost everywhere except the cockpit and I'm not really sure what to do about the sail or the nose, but there you go.
:doubt:
Title: Hercules Mk1 WIP(?)
Post by: Rictor on November 24, 2002, 10:01:04 pm
:eek2: :eek2:

you sir, are amazing
Title: Hercules Mk1 WIP(?)
Post by: Whitelight on November 24, 2002, 10:34:18 pm
Stop being so hard on yourself, it looks very, very good from where i`m sitting... To coin rictor`s phrase, you really are amazing..

I give it the:yes:  Very cool dude:cool:
Title: Hercules Mk1 WIP(?)
Post by: Nico on November 25, 2002, 02:27:21 am
they're right, it's a great mesh :p
Title: Hercules Mk1 WIP(?)
Post by: mikhael on November 25, 2002, 02:30:00 am
Quote
Originally posted by venom2506
they're right, it's a great mesh :p


If you're just seeing it, Venom, you're seeing the VASTLY improved version. ;) It  looked pretty bad before, but now, I think its shaping up. It doesn't hold a candle to your Herc2 though. Man I could kill for that mesh-smooth tool. :D

I'll be uploading a shameless, fresnel abusing, glowing green wireframe in a few minutes, btw. :D
Title: Hercules Mk1 WIP(?)
Post by: mikhael on November 25, 2002, 02:35:26 am
As promised, glowing green wireframe abuse. 1280x1024 jpg. Comes in around 170k.

(http://home.nc.rr.com/mikhael/Herc-Mk1-wire.jpg)

Enjoy.
Title: Hercules Mk1 WIP(?)
Post by: Sesquipedalian on November 25, 2002, 02:58:25 am
Quote
Originally posted by mikhael
As promised, glowing green wireframe abuse.
If that is abuse, you just made me a masochist.
Title: Hercules Mk1 WIP(?)
Post by: Ryx on November 25, 2002, 03:07:17 am
Looking Good! :nod:

Will you be modeling a cockpit, as well?
Title: Hercules Mk1 WIP(?)
Post by: Knight Templar on November 25, 2002, 03:15:30 am
I'm noticing a trend...



:D


Nice Job Mik as always. :yes:
Title: Hercules Mk1 WIP(?)
Post by: Nico on November 25, 2002, 05:07:15 am
Quote
Originally posted by mikhael


If you're just seeing it, Venom, you're seeing the VASTLY improved version. ;) It  looked pretty bad before, but now, I think its shaping up. It doesn't hold a candle to your Herc2 though. Man I could kill for that mesh-smooth tool. :D

I'll be uploading a shameless, fresnel abusing, glowing green wireframe in a few minutes, btw. :D


well, what I see is good, so who cares :p
btw, i prefer shameless, UV mapping abusing, shiny technicolor mapped renders ;) :D

edit: btw, in LW, meshsmooth = subdivision ;)
Title: Hercules Mk1 WIP(?)
Post by: Tiara on November 25, 2002, 08:00:27 am
Quote
Originally posted by mikhael
As promised, glowing green wireframe abuse. 1280x1024 jpg. Comes in around 170k.

[image removed]

Enjoy.


:eek2:

Finally, something to put on my desktop. :D
Title: Hercules Mk1 WIP(?)
Post by: Darkage on November 25, 2002, 08:44:16 am
WOW !!


Now thats what i call a Hercules fighter !:D

Topnotch work my friend.:yes:
Title: Hercules Mk1 WIP(?)
Post by: Ashrak on November 25, 2002, 09:08:34 am
we seriously need


1) a moddle discussion/getting place
2) a tutorial forum max/LW
Title: Hercules Mk1 WIP(?)
Post by: mikhael on November 25, 2002, 09:50:33 am
Quote
Originally posted by venom2506

well, what I see is good, so who cares :p
btw, i prefer shameless, UV mapping abusing, shiny technicolor mapped renders ;) :D

:D I prefer lots of modelled detail, but I'm going to try some UV stuff on this one for places where its just completely crazy to do polys.

Quote

edit: btw, in LW, meshsmooth = subdivision ;)

I use subdivision a lot, but there's not SMOOTH subdivision tool that I can find. I can Julienne it, bandsaw it, triple fan it, fast triple fan, etc. but no smoothing like the Max mesh-smooth. Heck even the Lightwave smooth option is less than optimal, since its very difficult to get it to respace the geometry that you want to keep rigid.

Thanks for the comments gang. I'll keep working on it today.
Title: Hercules Mk1 WIP(?)
Post by: Nico on November 25, 2002, 10:25:35 am
Quote
Originally posted by mikhael
I use subdivision a lot, but there's not SMOOTH subdivision tool that I can find. I can Julienne it, bandsaw it, triple fan it, fast triple fan, etc. but no smoothing like the Max mesh-smooth. Heck even the Lightwave smooth option is less than optimal, since its very difficult to get it to respace the geometry that you want to keep rigid.
 


now that's odd, I can't believe LW doesn't have that. I'll ask Killmenow about it if you want.
Title: Hercules Mk1 WIP(?)
Post by: mikhael on November 25, 2002, 10:34:31 am
Quote
Originally posted by venom2506


now that's odd, I can't believe LW doesn't have that. I'll ask Killmenow about it if you want.


I've found some plugins, but they cost money. So until I have a job again... :sigh:

I'll be adding smoothing planes by hand.
Title: Hercules Mk1 WIP(?)
Post by: Darkage on November 25, 2002, 10:59:27 am
Quote
Originally posted by Ashrak
we seriously need


1) a moddle discussion/getting place
2) a tutorial forum max/LW



1) Thats why the art forum is here to show your renders and models, and discus about them.
2) Go here (http://www.lwg3d.org/v3/index.php) thats a place purly for Lightwave users it got every type of forum you need. And it has good meshes there. There database is prety new so it should get more models as people release them.


But here at hLP we don't need a LW/MAX tutorial forum.
Title: Hercules Mk1 WIP(?)
Post by: Knight Templar on November 25, 2002, 11:02:30 am
Vadar has something cookin' , talk to him.
Title: Hercules Mk1 WIP(?)
Post by: mikhael on November 25, 2002, 12:18:51 pm
Quote
Originally posted by mikhael
I've found some plugins...


And now I've found the useful LW tool! ;)

Something I've always missed before while working with the Subdivide tool is the "metaform" button. Its almost mesh smooth. :D

:yes:
Title: Hercules Mk1 WIP(?)
Post by: KillMeNow on November 25, 2002, 06:47:02 pm
if you want part of teh model to remain close to the low poly mesh shap but smoothed out slightly there are afew optiosn in lw first weight it - simple and effective  or subdeivde the mesh itself using faceted settings sam result but less customiseable

basically subdeivsion surfaces  is mesh smooth - mesh smooth is just discreet naming it something different from all the other packages

as for what your meaning i have no idea - sud dee surfaces mak thigns very smooth indeed thats basically the whole point of them

press tab have fun =)
Title: Hercules Mk1 WIP(?)
Post by: KillMeNow on November 25, 2002, 06:48:11 pm
oh jsut noticed you are acaully sud devising the mesh - as i said before press the tab buttong for LW's mesh smooth
Title: Hercules Mk1 WIP(?)
Post by: mikhael on November 25, 2002, 06:54:34 pm
Quote
Originally posted by KillMeNow
oh jsut noticed you are acaully sud devising the mesh - as i said before press the tab buttong for LW's mesh smooth


Yeah, I've not been using the MetaNurbs tool at all.  what I've been looking for is something like the Max mesh-smooth modifier (that stack thing is pretty groovy) or on the other end of the scale, Truespace's "Smooth Quad-Divide". Subdivide->Metaform seems to give me much closer to what I want than Metanurbs.

I've read the manual about nine times and a bunch of tutorials, but I can never seem to get MetaNurbs to do what I want. Your mention of weight maps, however might be just what I need. :D
Title: Hercules Mk1 WIP(?)
Post by: phreak on November 25, 2002, 07:43:21 pm
we need to jumpstart a certain IW2 project, once i get my school and SCP stuff done.
Title: Hercules Mk1 WIP(?)
Post by: KillMeNow on November 25, 2002, 07:54:26 pm
what version of lw are you running? as while basically teh same thing its not been called metanurbs for a while
Title: Hercules Mk1 WIP(?)
Post by: mikhael on November 25, 2002, 08:59:19 pm
Quote
Originally posted by KillMeNow
what version of lw are you running? as while basically teh same thing its not been called metanurbs for a while


LW6.0. Its listed as Subpatching in my books. When I took that class at the college, we were transitioning the CG lab from LW5 and LW4 to LW6. The instructor still called it "metanurbs".

Man, I miss those days. :D Class was fun.
Title: Hercules Mk1 WIP(?)
Post by: mikhael on November 25, 2002, 09:02:28 pm
Quote
Originally posted by PhReAk
we need to jumpstart a certain IW2 project, once i get my school and SCP stuff done.


MMmmmmm. FS in the Flux engine. That would be DIVINE. :) Shame we don't have source access to THAT. ;)
Title: Hercules Mk1 WIP(?)
Post by: KillMeNow on November 25, 2002, 09:16:24 pm
where did you go for training? i'm currently looking into getting some 3d training at the moment

anyway its a nice model - good attension to detail - maybe one day i will give it a try sadly though my skills at making things like this aren't so good - i seembetter at organic modeling these days
Title: Hercules Mk1 WIP(?)
Post by: mikhael on November 25, 2002, 09:21:37 pm
Quote
Originally posted by KillMeNow
where did you go for training? i'm currently looking into getting some 3d training at the moment

anyway its a nice model - good attension to detail - maybe one day i will give it a try sadly though my skills at making things like this aren't so good - i seembetter at organic modeling these days


The Arts program at the university where I used to work had a few CG classes. CG1 was Photoshop skills, CG2 was 3d stuff. To get into either, you had to take the first two years of the Arts program--or be a member of the university staff. ;) I fell, naturally, into the latter group. I think I've shown some of the silly stuff we did here before (like my walking Beyer's Scarab beetle)
Title: Hercules Mk1 WIP(?)
Post by: Stryke 9 on November 25, 2002, 09:46:45 pm
Quote
Originally posted by PhReAk
we need to jumpstart a certain IW2 project, once i get my school and SCP stuff done.


Oh, man, yes.

The I-War engine was godly, and perfect for a FS conv. Fact, the poorly-designed mission setup (go out, raid 200 of the same freighter, do it again, blow up something, come back, get blown up by something bigger than you, restart, raid 200 more freighters) and the irritating characters who WOULD NEVER SHUT UP were the only things wrong with it. So, transplanting FS, whose engine, etc. were its weak points, would be perfect. It'd be like taking Einstein's brain and putting it in a giant robotic body with laser beam eyes and the ability to crush a tank between two of its fingers.
Title: Hercules Mk1 WIP(?)
Post by: Galemp on November 25, 2002, 10:18:38 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Stryke 9

 It'd be like taking Einstein's brain and putting it in a giant robotic body with laser beam eyes and the ability to crush a tank between two of its fingers.


:lol: :lol:
Title: Hercules Mk1 WIP(?)
Post by: Nico on November 26, 2002, 02:42:06 am
Quote
Originally posted by KillMeNow
if you want part of teh model to remain close to the low poly mesh shap but smoothed out slightly there are afew optiosn in lw first weight it - simple and effective  or subdeivde the mesh itself using faceted settings sam result but less customiseable


you can also do a small chamfer to the edge or vertex you want to stay sharp just applying the sub D
Title: Hercules Mk1 WIP(?)
Post by: mikhael on November 26, 2002, 03:07:35 am
Quote
Originally posted by venom2506


you can also do a small chamfer to the edge or vertex you want to stay sharp just applying the sub D


See, chamfers and fillets are exactly the effect I'd like in some places. I got started way back in the day with AutoCAD. You could chamfer/fillet adjoining polys and specify a radius, and voila, perfect fillet or chamfer. I can't quite make sub-d do that the way I want yet. That's an area for more study.
Title: Hercules Mk1 WIP(?)
Post by: Nico on November 26, 2002, 04:01:53 am
you don't get what I mean. mmh, in 3dsmax , meshsmoothcreates a curve between the edges or vertex of the mesh, stratingfrom the point thatis the middle of a line you'd draw between those two edges or vertex. this point is the highest point of the curve I doubt that makes any sense, but it's not the important point ). that means that when you apply a mesh smooth, the mesh is curved, but it's "shriken, in a way. rather than creating new curves, if you want, it "cuts" the angular parts of the mesh away. so the more you havepolygons, the less it'll cut away. originally, all my meshsmoothed models were ugly coz the non meshsmoothed mesh had too many polygons already. So, for meshsmooth, the less polys, the better usually, that's an important rule I had to find by myself (along with the "you must make quads whenever you can" rule. damn teacher, could never tell us that :doubt: ).
BUT.
you want a sharp area in your meshsmoothed mesh. I believe subD must work the same, coz I see no other way ( save if sub D is like tesselate and not meshsmooth :P -tesselate works the other way around, it adds curves instead of removing angles, and it still works best with as few polys as possible ).SO if you followed what I say, if you add more polys, the edges/vertex will be closer the ones from the others, right? the closer the edges, the smaller the curve will be, to a point that   it'll look like a corner.
try that: make a cube, and extrude one of the face of a very tiny amount ( so you can almost not see that it's extruded when you see the full mesh ), then apply the subD ( the one that smoothed the mesh, heh ). one side should be like a sphere, and the other one about flat. if you want a chamfer in a meshsmoothed mesh, chamfer twice ;)
Title: Hercules Mk1 WIP(?)
Post by: KillMeNow on November 26, 2002, 09:11:06 am
it works that way in lw too i've played with mesh smooth in max and its exactl the same well not exactly but the exact same principle behind it