Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Fineus on December 04, 2002, 03:05:37 pm
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Hey all - I'm looking to upgrade my CPU to around an XP 2400+ - but that means I'll need a new motherboard. Upgradability is important and it must take DDR ram... any thoughts on where I could get started? (or indeed if it's worth shelling out more/less for a better/worse chip? - is the gap between the 2200+ and the 2400+ etc.. that big?)
Thanks :)
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CPUs and motherboards i can get for you dirt cheap, especiall CPU/motherboard bundles
i'll be back later
do'nt buy anything yet! i can hook you up
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You'd be hooking my dad up (the basic idea is this is a possible christmas present for me) but thanks for the offer anyhow, I'll await what you have to say! Any advice from anyone for the time being would be good though :)
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Just Keep Checking Pricewatch to get a general idea of what you should be paying :)
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I'm upgrading too. A bit more drastic though. I'm going for the MSI KT3 Ultra2 and the Athlon 2000+. And before anyone tells me to get a better one than that, I lack the money to and it's far better than my current CPU (P3 550 MHz)
Edit: I think I've heard the 2100+ and 2200+ have heatsink problems, so I'd go for the 2400+ in your shoes, Thunder.
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you lack the money? there's no excuse better than that :D
i'm going to go to frys tomorrow... they sell all sorts of electronics at wholesale prices. so go ahead and make a decision if you want, but i'm going to check tomorrow
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Grey wolf, i've just recently purchased a 2200+ and it's running pretty cool at the moment.. no probs in that area..
BTW, i'm running it on a kt3 ultra 2
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Originally posted by Stealth
i'm going to go to frys tomorrow... they sell all sorts of electronics at wholesale prices. so go ahead and make a decision if you want, but i'm going to check tomorrow
I'll be waiting on what you have to say anyway - it was dads birthday yesterday so I figured going up to him and saying "Happy Birthday, I'd like an AMD 2400+ and this mobo..." would be a tad insensitive ;)
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get a new case too!
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I went to a computer fair last saturday for a Mobo and XP 2100+ and paid £120.
I think almost all new boards take DDR so that's not so much of a problem.
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give me what you're looking for on a motherboard... what kind of processor, what speed, what kind of RAM, etc.
(http://images.anandtech.com/reviews/motherboards/intel/D845PEBT2/box.jpg)
how's that motherboard, with this processor:
Form Factor ATX (12.00 inches by 8.50 inches
Processor Support for an Intel® Pentium® 4 processor in a mPGA478 socket with a 400/533 MHz system bus
Hyper-Threading Technology Support
Support for an Intel® Celeron® processor in a mPGA478 socket with a 400 MHz system bus
Memory Two 184-pin DDR SDRAM DIMM sockets
Support for DDR 333 and DDR 266
Support for up to 2 GB¹ system memory
Chipset Intel® 845PE Chipset
I/O Control SMSC LPC47M172 LPC bus I/O controller
Audio Six channel audio with analog, coaxial digital, and optical digital output using AC '97 processing with the Analog Devices AD1980 codec featuring SoundMAX Cadenza
Video AGP connector supporting 1.5 V 4X AGP cards
SATA/SATA RAID Sil 3112A controller supporting individual drives and RAID 0 and RAID 1 configurations
Two SATA connectors supporting a total of two drives
Peripheral Interfaces Six USB 2.0 ports
Three IEEE 1394a-2000 ports (optional)
One serial port
One parallel port
Two IDE interfaces with Ultra DMA 33 and ATA-66/100 support
One diskette drive interface
PS/2* keyboard and mouse ports
Three fan connectors
Expansion CapabilitiesFive PCI bus add-in card connectors
I was thinking you could run a P4 2.53 GHZ processor, which that motherboard would support. would you like that? or do you want a faster processor
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Thunder's getting himself a new MoFo? Will it run icy hot, with ghettocooling? :D
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heh ;) ;7
EDIT: if your dad wants to buy something (an ebay auction or something) in america, then i can organize payment/shipping to you
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The specs look good Stealth - thanks - but only one small (large) problem.. the mobo is for an AMD Athlon chip in the XP 2200 to 2600 range. It won't fit on a P4 mobo :)
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[color=00ff66]
*Throws arms in air and starts chanting*
"Athlon! Athlon! Athlon!..."
Price and performance, it suits me down to the ground. :nod:
BTW Thunder I'm going to wait until after chrimbo to buy parts, I was going to shell out for a Mobo and DDR this month but my friend who does a lot of buying is expecting a price increase for chrimbo and advises that if possible to wait until Jan/Feb. That's just for the UK.
[/color]
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Well the UK interests me... I'd be more than willing to wait untill Feb for the price drops on 333 FSB chips etc.. hell I could ask for the money for Christmas and do what I want with it when the time comes...
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What about this?
http://usa.asus.com/mb/socketa/a7v8x/overview.htm
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Originally posted by Thunder
The specs look good Stealth - thanks - but only one small (large) problem.. the mobo is for an AMD Athlon chip in the XP 2200 to 2600 range. It won't fit on a P4 mobo :)
eh? that motherboard is meant for P4 processors! what motherboard are you looking at? ;)
Oh, and that link you gave... the A7V ... very good motherboard. in fact, pretty much any ASUS motherboard is quality... all the A7(somethings) are good... except for the A7A266, which has a pathetic chip.
EDIT: without even looking at the specs... if you look on the box (in the picture) it says "for Pentium 4 processors" or something... see? :
(http://www.3dap.com/hlp/hosted/stealth/hostedpictures/box2.jpg)
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Cheers Stealth - and yeah, I mean't the mobo I wanted was one for an Athlon... P4 built mobos are no good :)
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amen to that! i always go Athlon myself (lol) but i thought "if i say something about why he's getting a P4 motherboard, he'll flame me"... so i just kept quiet :)
yeah... if you're going for Athlon processors, then go ASUS. that motherboard you showed is good
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kt3 ultras are pretty good..
here's the site so you can look it up..
http://www.msicomputer.com (http://www.msicomputer.com)
cost me $200 AUD (that's aussie dollars folks) and with the bios updated it can support the athlon 2400+'s quite nicely
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oh, and you asked the difference between a 2200 and 2400 chip? hardly anything... you won't notice the difference through usage
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Well I'm a happy bunny, I've found a place that'll sell the motherboard I linked to for around £90.. just need the XP 2400 chip and a cooling solution now...now, what about cooling? ;)
Edit: And thanks everyone very much for your help!
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fans?
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Really? ;)
I don't know, I've got a heat sink/fan on my CPU thats rated for 1.6GHz Athlons.. the CPU runs at a steady 51 degrees - goes up to 55 during gameplay and the sides on the case are off anyway. I get the feeling that's way to hot...
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Watercool it thunder!
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No. I don't know enough about how water cooling works - I don't want to risk it.
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Originally posted by Thunder
Really? ;)
I don't know, I've got a heat sink/fan on my CPU thats rated for 1.6GHz Athlons.. the CPU runs at a steady 51 degrees - goes up to 55 during gameplay and the sides on the case are off anyway. I get the feeling that's way to hot...
well when you asked about a cooling method, i wanted to know if you wanted to use fans, water, freon, etc.
Shrike: Watercooling is a good idea, i was going to suggest that, but it often requires massive modification of your entire system. Also, there's no point watercooling just the processor. if you've going to set up teh entire watercooling system, then may as well have it cooling your graphics card and hard drive at the same time, and even your power supply.
If you're looking on overclocking, then i'd say definately go with Pentium processors though, since Athlon aren't made for clocking.
Read more about optimum processor temperature, as well as a test of two athlons and two pentiums (Athlon T-bird, P3, P4, Athlon MP) here:
http://www6.tomshardware.com/cpu/01q3/010917/heatvideo-01.html
it's very interesting, i suggest you read
If you're really concerned about the temperature, then why not invest in a freon cooled system, as i mentioned earlier. They're not very common, but they run so cold, ther's not a slight chance of the processor overheating. My friend has a freon cooled system... here's how it boots (it's incredible):
1) Press the power button to start the system up. nothing starts... instead, a little digital display displays the current processor temperature.
2) There's a little whirring noise, and the temperature on the display starts dropping at a incredibly fast pace... there's a change of about 10 degrees every second (farenheit).
3) When it hits a certain (preset) temperature the system actually starts up...
of course the system monitors the temperature of the processor, and adjusts the temperature accordingly. it's incredibly cold though... in theory, if you placed a can of beer in a fridge that was that cold... it would be frozen solid in like 3.6 seconds.
... no chance of overheating whatsoever :D
oh, and If you're not familiar with the watercooling concept, basically it's just pretty much pumping water continuously through a processor (of course it's got a special case and all :p :cool: ... it's also a special kind of water, with special chemicals and stuff
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Hmm... the trouble is that A) I'd not know how to install such a system and B) I don't want to risk mucking it up and flooding my system with water, freon or whatever else goes through it. Fans are... safer.
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fans can fall off... sure, they may be somewhat more reliable when it comes to danger, but they'renot as effective as freon or water ;)
i'd say stay away from water though if you're wary of it... can be dangerous too, occasionally pipes blow, etc.
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Yeah.... it's just a case of finding a good fan/heat sink solution... and praying my CPU doesn't catch fire ;)
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doesn't catch fire eh? :)
i take it you read that link :D
try the Dragon Orb fan
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Yeah, I read the link. Mine is the one they rated as most worrying ;)
I guess 51 degrees isn't so bad alongside 370...
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not at all :D
i'm not familiar with farenheit ---> celcius conversion though... is 51 degrees... like... about 120 degrees farenheit?
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Originally posted by Thunder
Mine is the one they rated as most worrying ;)
only if the heatsink falls off ;)
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50 celsius = 122 farenheit :)
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Originally posted by Thunder
50 celsius = 122 farenheit :)
and i said 51 celcius = 120 farenheit
DAMN i'm good ;)
ADMIT it Thunder :D
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:nervous:
You're good...
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i mean i predicted what 51 celcius would be in farenheit IN MY HEAT, without working it out... and i was 3 degrees off ;)
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Don't push your luck ;)
But yeah - it was pretty impressive!
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i won't push my luck... (explain what you meant by pushing my luck :D )
...
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:hammer:
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i know you... you're just looking for a way to ban me, arne' tyou :(
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Lol, even I am not sad/cruel/pathetic/evil (pick one+) enough to do that. Besides you've helped me with this motherboard thing - which was nice.
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yeah... i guess you're not that cruel... you know HLP is my life :p :cool:
and you also know i help everyone, regardless if i like them or not (not that i don't like you, but i'm just letting you know)
i'm just a helpful person :D
unfortunately it's not always GOOD help :D lol
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I think Vadar might agree with that ;)
But yeah.. thanks for the help with the mobo. Now all I need is money...
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buy it cheap in america... i can ship it to you
and you're wrong... i always helped vadar in a good way. check the 'rating systems' thread in the FC forum
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i'm off to dinner... talk to you later :cool:
:)
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Cheers, I'll keep that in mind - but I'm off to sleep. It's late here ;)
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Tsk. You'll never make a convincing student with that attitude Thunder.
I have an uber heat sink - looks basically like a cock's comb of about fifty or sixty copper vanes, each about sixty mm squared. Then, I have a bracket bolted on top of the top three PCI slots, which supports a 120mm fan - the idea beaing that you can move that fan about on the end of the bracket, and jig it to fit your motherboard. Keeps my AMD XP 1800 (1.53) below 50 degrees at all times - frosty, no? :cool:
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The one I'm putting in mine is the Volcano 9. Looks pretty nice. Not a bad price, too. Found one for $16 online.
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very nice
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http://www.pcinfinity.com
This place ru13z0rs.
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Cheers guys - the one thing I don't want to do is put something that's unstabaling heavy on there... it occurs to me that some of these things just out quite a long way.
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Originally posted by Thunder
Cheers guys - the one thing I don't want to do is put something that's unstabaling heavy on there... it occurs to me that some of these things just out quite a long way.
never put a heavy fan
many (most) fans/heatsinks are attached to the little tabs (notches) of the Socket A. if those tabs break off (which they do occasionally) then in a matter of 3 seconds your processor could be overheated.
worse: if you're not around, a few minutes after the processor dies you'll fry your motherboard, and you may even start a fire.
:eek:
stay with lighter, faster fans :D
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Originally posted by Stealth
never put a heavy fan
many (most) fans/heatsinks are attached to the little tabs (notches) of the Socket A. if those tabs break off (which they do occasionally) then in a matter of 3 seconds your processor could be overheated.
worse: if you're not around, a few minutes after the processor dies you'll fry your motherboard, and you may even start a fire.
:eek:
stay with lighter, faster fans :D
Faster fans are noisier. Also it's the heatsink what weighs, fans don't nearly as much. I'd say go for a quite big fan, or at least silent which keeps your system cool.
And it depends on the heatsink if it drops off. I think most (if not all, some are just very hard to install) have good enough attaching system.
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Originally posted by Redfang
Faster fans are noisier. Also it's the heatsink what weighs, fans don't nearly as much. I'd say go for a quite big fan, or at least silent which keeps your system cool.
And it depends on the heatsink if it drops off. I think most (if not all, some are just very hard to install) have good enough attaching system.
if even one of the tabs on the socket A , 478, or other processor slot break off, the entire heatsink, fan, or whatever you've got connected, will fall of... thus causing the processor to overheat, or the thermal monitoring unit to cause the processor to slow down/shut off...
what i'm saying, (and all experts will agree) it's better not to put some massive 5000 RPM fan on it, thinking it will "keep it cool"... because it's not unusual for the tab to break off, the heatsink/fan falls off, and boom, the whole thing is gone.
Also, tehre's no point just having a fan. a heatsink can work on its own in older, slower processors, but for a new, fast, and hot processor, it's always good to have a heatsink AND fan ;)
So no... i'd say don't go for a big fan, unless you've got some other way of holding it onto the motherboard... like tie it on with a metal wire to the case or something. like i said, if one of those tabs breaks off, kiss your processor, motherboard, and possibly house goodbye (if it catches on fire)
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Usually the heavy fans run at lower RPM's, as they can cool more with less rounds per minute, and thus are less noisy.
And I know, my OLD computer (going to get new for christmas, which will have the same mobo and CPU as Thunder's upgrade) only has a heatsink. At least this is silent. :D
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Originally posted by Redfang
Usually the heavy fans run at lower RPM's, as they can cool more with less rounds per minute, and thus are less noisy.
And I know, my OLD computer (going to get new for christmas, which will have the same mobo and CPU as Thunder's upgrade) only has a heatsink. At least this is silent. :D
1) Heavier fans run at lower RPMs cause they're usually much bigger, so they can move at slower RPM and deliver the same air flow as a small fan moving twice as fast... if you know what i mean... it's like taking a radiator fan, and taking a big industrial air conditioning fan... make them go the same speed... the big fan is going to deliver MUCH more air than the smaller one... so the CPU fans work the same principle... and also remember the slower a fan moves, the less noise it makes, and the longer it will live, since it's not pushing the motor at all. ;)
2) Wait a sec... you're going to run a P4 with no fan, just a heatsink? show me a picture... that must be one hell of a designed heatsink
EDIT: re-read it... lol, i thought you were going to run a P4 with no heatsink ;)... yeah, older CPUs can run with only a heatsink, but that's liek 500 mHz max :)
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Originally posted by Stealth
1) Heavier fans run at lower RPMs cause they're usually much bigger, so they can move at slower RPM and deliver the same air flow as a small fan moving twice as fast... if you know what i mean... it's like taking a radiator fan, and taking a big industrial air conditioning fan... make them go the same speed... the big fan is going to deliver MUCH more air than the smaller one... so the CPU fans work the same principle... and also remember the slower a fan moves, the less noise it makes, and the longer it will live, since it's not pushing the motor at all. ;)
2) Wait a sec... you're going to run a P4 with no fan, just a heatsink? show me a picture... that must be one hell of a designed heatsink
EDIT: re-read it... lol, i thought you were going to run a P4 with no heatsink ;)... yeah, older CPUs can run with only a heatsink, but that's liek 500 mHz max :)
1) That was what I said, though not as well. So while big fans weigh more and might drop the heatsink+fan off, they also cool more for less noise. :nod:
2) Yeah, I'm getting XP 2400+ (Thoroughbred) with fan+heatsink, of course.
And yeah, my current one is Celeron 466MHz. :blah:
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so we agree with each other then :)
what were we arguing about? ;)
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Originally posted by Stealth
so we agree with each other then :)
what were we arguing about? ;)
I forgot. :p
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:) :D
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What an interesting conversation ;)
Redfang - can you point me at something similar to the fan/heatsink you're going to be putting on your new system?
Just so I can get an idea - I think I now know a fair bit about the concept of fans...
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Originally posted by Thunder
What an interesting conversation ;)
Redfang - can you point me at something similar to the fan/heatsink you're going to be putting on your new system?
Just so I can get an idea - I think I now know a fair bit about the concept of fans...
This (http://www.arcticsilver.com/as3.htm) for between the heatsink and CPU, and maybe this (http://www.globalwin.com.tw/new-product/fsp82.html) for fan and heatsink. At least it says it's up to 2700+, and I don't plan on overclocking. It's not the best fan+heatsink, but it's not very loud either, and is quite cheap, and the shop where I'm going to buy from doesn't seem to have too many different fans and heatsinks. :nod:
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Thanks - makes sense to me :)
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any other questions Thunder? :)
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Lend me some money? ;)
Actually I think you've answered everything. I'm going to wait for the after-christmas sales to drive prices on the slightly older tech down...
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Originally posted by Thunder
[1]Lend me some money? ;)
[2]. I'm going to wait for the after-christmas sales... to drive prices on the slightly older tech down...
1) Yeah right ;)... you saying "Lend"? or "give" ;) like we know you'll pay us back :D :) like i said, i'll be more than willing to ship it to you if you're buying it overseas, but right now i'm a little tight for money too... and i gotta put a car alarm in too :p
2) That's what i'm waiting for too :D