Hard Light Productions Forums
General FreeSpace => FreeSpace Discussion => Topic started by: Black Wolf on December 11, 2002, 09:58:15 pm
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How would you believe nodes would be blockaded in FS?
Currently I'm doing it like this -
_ _ _ _ _ Blockade
O Node
But logic in a 3d environment would suggest I do it like this
|--------|
|---O---|
|--------|
However, that'd take alot more ships in FRED and turn the mission into a nondirectional mess. I've put a planet in front of the node (Behind the blockade) to make it appear like the rest of the system is in that direction, but that doesn't seem to mean a lot to subspace. So, is the first option acceptable to a mission player, unrealistic as it may be, or would realism be more important to you?
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Make up some nonsensical rule, like a ship can't come any further than 500m past the node and figure it from there.
That's if you use subspace as say a dorr. You can only come into the room by opening the door. Some missions have doors all over and already int he room with a door.. but going in the same direction. :)
Keeping with the door theory, best bet is a wall vertical wall. Another tactically sounder perhaps way would be be a semi circle (facing the planet) so ships appear get nuked by the maximum amount of fire power.. too be more fancy.. do A Semi sphere in the same fashion.
Make sense?
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actually as a player, i'd probably enjoy having a few ships (big ones, and a few fighters... perhaps some of those mjolnir or whatever) very close to the node or portal or whatever the hell it is (FS1 player here... heh) ... don't put a 'wall' of them, cause what if the player comes from the other direction :D i'd say rather just have a little cluster around or in the actual note/portal/whatever.
hey... what is it? a node? or a portal? in FS1 it would be a node, but in FS2 they have that Knossos device or whatever (portal?) with those ships flying in a circle around each other...
in one of the FS2 missions it got destroyed (purposefully... to stop the Shivans entering the system or something), and all the 'ships' like flew into space as debris... is there a sexp to 'destroy knossos device' or something?
Also... the 'mjolnir' (is that right?) that portable beam cannon that was extremely effective in one mission where you had to like kill all NTV ships that entered through the node (portal? :D )... can those work against enemy fighters? like multiple fighter beam mjolnirs? :D
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I'm with stealth. Englobe it with Mjolnirs, and then put a task force on alert-5 nearby. They don't need to BE THERE. They just need to GET THERE. The Mjolnirs SHOULD keep things under wraps until the cavalry arrives.
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Unfortunately, Mjolnirs are not an option - this is an illegal civillian blockade.
Give you any hints about my secret project VA? :D
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Civvies have crappy ships. No way they have military grade vessels. If they do they can also have Mjolnirs :p
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Who said they had military hardware? The biggest ships in the Blockade are Zephyrus and Hippocrates class, mostly it's Freighters and transports - there's just a lot of them.
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...
1 bomber can break a blockade of freighters...
You'll have to take into account that these pilots (civvie pilots) are not as good as military pilots as well so you'll have to set their AI low.
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All that is taken into consideration - they actually have some very inventive ways of evening the odds a little, plus there's reluctance on the part of the GTVA to attack them because... well, that'd be telling, but trust me, it's all thought out.
All I really need to know is how they should have deployed themselves.
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Since the civies use allot of transport and cargo units why not setup cargo containers near the node and put bombs in them. 4 per ship. And put around 30 of them sort of like mines and make 4/5 explode by sexps or each ship to criple or destroy the cruisers corvettes whate ever you put in it. And then some bombers can clean it up by giving it the final blow to the ships that get past the mines, it's onnoying to set up but fun to watch.
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why not blockade a node by simply putting a capship inside it.
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Originally posted by Black Wolf
Who said they had military hardware? The biggest ships in the Blockade are Zephyrus and Hippocrates class, mostly it's Freighters and transports - there's just a lot of them.
:nod:
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Originally posted by Stunaep
why not blockade a node by simply putting a capship inside it.
exactly what i was thinking :D
but what if a ship wants to jump in or out :confused:
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Originally posted by Stealth
but what if a ship wants to jump in or out :confused:
Jumping in: A sub space vortex opens inside the other vessel and the crew will have to share thee already crappy quarters.
Jumping out: No sane captain would jump out through a ship.
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Originally posted by Tiara
Jumping in: A sub space vortex opens inside the other vessel and the crew will have to share thee already crappy quarters.
Jumping out: No sane captain would jump out through a ship.
exactly my point! :D
well, i guess that's one hell of a way to blockade a node ;)
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try a few dozen cargo pods loaded to the brim with high explosives
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Now there's a question. In Iwar2, popping out of a LaG into occupied realspace makes the new arrival go boom. That's the whole point of portcullis/spider devices.
Does FS allow for ships to know if there's mass on the other side of the subspace tunnel? How much do nodes really matter? Are they the ONLY possible jump, or are they the BEST possible jump? Does space around the node offer the same jump possibilities but with higher risks/lower efficiencies?
If its the only possible jump parking a cap in the node effectively locks the node and makes blockade running foolish at best. Not much of a mission to be had there. i'm I correct that the mission you want to do involves running the blockade? If so, bombed cargo containers, decommed cargo ships and englobing is probably your best option.
Tiara made another good point: if its blockading an outgoing node, bombs, and a couple freighter hulks in the node proper will afford for a great mission: take disable civvies, destroy mines, and move/destroy those hulks. Of course, smart civvies will use live ships, not hulks, and will disable the engines so they can "rightfully" claim that they "just broke down, could you come back later"? ;)
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Originally posted by Stunaep
why not blockade a node by simply putting a capship inside it.
It depends on how you think Subspace works but I get the feeling that something really bad would happen to any ship that attempted to sit in a jump node from the fact that at no point in either FS1 or FS2 did anyone try it.
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I think we need to know if a node can only be used from one (general) direction or all directions. As far as I can remember, the main campaign had ships mostly entering from the same direction (and leaving in the opposite one) in a node, which would mean that the node is more of a normal 3D door than a spherical 4D one.
This is only a problem when using Mjolnirs though, since the other sentries can fire in any direction and everything else is mobile. I simply use the "wall" blockade with those in my missions since, although enemy ships can come in from any side, I have it so that it is possible to track the movements of incoming ships a few minutes ahead of time, so the sentries can just be repositioned around as necessary.
why not blockade a node by simply putting a capship inside it.
or put in a meson bomb instead... :D
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Illegal civvie blockade?
Probably might have them hijack some GTVA cruisers (refers to Derelict mission "The Number of the Beast) such as a few Fenrises, Leviathans, or Aeoluses.
But that's just me:D
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Originally posted by mikhael
Now there's a question. In Iwar2, popping out of a LaG into occupied realspace makes the new arrival go boom. That's the whole point of portcullis/spider devices.
Does FS allow for ships to know if there's mass on the other side of the subspace tunnel? How much do nodes really matter? Are they the ONLY possible jump, or are they the BEST possible jump? Does space around the node offer the same jump possibilities but with higher risks/lower efficiencies?
If its the only possible jump parking a cap in the node effectively locks the node and makes blockade running foolish at best. Not much of a mission to be had there. i'm I correct that the mission you want to do involves running the blockade? If so, bombed cargo containers, decommed cargo ships and englobing is probably your best option.
I always thought that there's some sort of gravitational wash in subspace that affects ships within the node... I think it;d be more likely that the arriving ship and the blocker would both be destroyed.
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Originally posted by nuclear1
Illegal civvie blockade?
Probably might have them hijack some GTVA cruisers (refers to Derelict mission "The Number of the Beast) such as a few Fenrises, Leviathans, or Aeoluses.
D'oh, you beat me to it :cool:
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Originally posted by aldo_14
I always thought that there's some sort of gravitational wash in subspace that affects ships within the node... I think it;d be more likely that the arriving ship and the blocker would both be destroyed.
Well yeah, unless the blocker was sufficiently massive or well shielded. In Iwar2, a portcullis puts an Linear Displacement Shield across the opening, while a spider physically "caps" it. I belive in the first IWar, COSA used Neutronium ore as a LAG blocker (high gravity neturonium adds gravitation shear to the LaG, keeping capsule ingress/egress from working).
That's why I said use hulks/decommed ships to block the node if its an incoming blockade, or "disabled" civilian ships with crew if its an outgoing blockade. Ideally, you'd blockade both ends of the tunnel, so that you knew beyond a shadow of a doubt that NOTHING would be coming through from either direction.
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Originally posted by nuclear1
Illegal civvie blockade?
Probably might have them hijack some GTVA cruisers (refers to Derelict mission "The Number of the Beast) such as a few Fenrises, Leviathans, or Aeoluses.
But that's just me:D
This could fit better into the current storyline than you realize...:nod:
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Originally posted by Stunaep
why not blockade a node by simply putting a capship inside it.
Why not just strap subspace engines on a bomb and send it through :p
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go HW style and make a big, disordered, glob of ships. Then put the cargo mines in the middle of the node.
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Originally posted by Alikchi
Why not just strap subspace engines on a bomb and send it through :p
*flashes back to when the luci blew*
hehe you get the picture
quote derelict: I don't think subspace likes explosionsuin quote
If your sending a bomb if you mean helios size scr** that go meson :devil:
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Originally posted by nuclear1
Illegal civvie blockade?
Probably might have them hijack some GTVA cruisers (refers to Derelict mission "The Number of the Beast) such as a few Fenrises, Leviathans, or Aeoluses.
But that's just me:D
No disrespect to civilians, but um... they'd be hard pressed to get onboard a Navy vessel under any circumstances. Actually HIJACKING them is even less likely.
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Well, it depends - if the cruisers had a few sympathetic crewers on board, they'd have a chance :).
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I'm going to make a big assumption: GTVA ships are like modern US Navy ships.
Despite what the movies say, you'd have to have considerably more than "a few sympathetic crewers" on board to take the ship, neutralise the now-hostile crewers, and run the ship themselves until a properly trained civilian crew can come aboard.
Its just not going to happen on any sizeable sort of vessel.
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Take a valuable hostage and order the crew of the ship to get off. Or, take the captain hostage when nobody's looking, and make him order the crew off the ship.
*taps side of head*
They all come from up here, my monkey pal!
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Grab the ship while its in dry dock, thats how the civvies captured most of those cruisers in Derelict (the others were pirate vessels). There'd be a skeleton, if any, crew aboard, and the place would be swarming with civilian mechanics and work crews.
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Hrm... lets logic this out. One guy's life for the BIG HARDWARE WITH THE BEAM CANNONS. I'm betting the crew will cheerfully watch the captains brains get ventilated. If they did ANYTHING ELSE, it'd be courts-martial for every last one of them.
From my experience in the Navy, unless the ship is in dry-dock, they are very well secured against the civilian tech teams that repair them, and a full security contingent is still on board at all times. Even in dry dock (where, realistically, the ship isn't going anywhere) there's still a pretty decent security contingent about. Even so, ships are only docked/drydocked like that in secured ports, where you have the physical security of the installation to deal with on top of the ships security.
It just won't wash.
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--dunno where this came from *SNIP*--
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Well, it might happen on a really backwater system like Tau Sigma, where it obviously would be impossible in Vega or Beta Aquilae. Since GTVA presence in remote systems is tiny, they might not have the personnel to safely guard their ships from civilian hijack while docked. The military environment on the edges of the known frontier can't really compare to much in modern navies...unless they're based in Antarctica.
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What he said.
How about this scenario, mik: a remote outpost (such as TS), where the only military presence is the Lonewolf, her crew, and your four-man fighter wing (and maybe a few admins and techs, but not many). Are you gonna stop hundreds of determined civilians? Are you gonna take responsibility for killing said hundreds of civilians if that's what it takes to stop them? Perhaps you're under orders not to kill civvies - has been known to happen, you know. Perhaps you're sympathetic towards their cause. Perhaps they've slipped you a bundle of small, green pieces of paper and asked you to be looking out the porthole when they sneak past your guard post.
Want more? OK - perhaps they locked themselves in the engine room and bridge, and there's no other acess to the ships systems (on older ships, admitidly). Maybe they flooded the ship with knock-out gas? The list goes on...
And frankly, mik, you'd make one ****e police negotiator. You'd let the hostage get scrubbed, just like that? Can you really see U.S military personel (for the sake of argument) letting their c/o get killed, saying "sorry sir, I can't let you in there, even if you have the captain hostage..."?
OK, so this is probably not going to happen in the average GTVA millitary base, but for the Derelict campaign, set in a remote, relatively unsecured system, it was both plausible and a good bit of plot, so :p
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Originally posted by diamondgeezer
What he said.
How about this scenario, mik: a remote outpost (such as TS), where the only military presence is the Lonewolf, her crew, and your four-man fighter wing (and maybe a few admins and techs, but not many). Are you gonna stop hundreds of determined civilians?
Yes. LOCK THE DAMN AIRLOCKS. Then pop your umbilicals and go to a standoff distance. Start plinking NOW CONSIDERED HOSTILE civilian ships that decide to come after you.
Are you gonna take responsibility for killing said hundreds of civilians if that's what it takes to stop them?
Lets see. courts martial for giving up my very expensive ship or board of inquiry for killing some pirates... hrm... I dunno.. oh yeah, KILL THE DAMN PIRATES.
Perhaps you're under orders not to kill civvies - has been known to happen, you know.
Piracy is not legal. Attempting to hijack a military vessel makes you hostile. Kill, disable, disarm, or otherwise prevent the pirates from taking your vessel.
Perhaps you're sympathetic towards their cause. Perhaps they've slipped you a bundle of small, green pieces of paper and asked you to be looking out the porthole when they sneak past your guard post.
Did you miss the whole airlock concept: you have to get a whole crew of armed pirates past the locks on the ship, into the corridors and then they have to fight their way past the ships crew, though sealed/compartmentalised spaces DESIGNED TO STOP BOARDERS FROM HAVING EASY ACCESS TO THE SHIPS INTERIOR and then take over the ship FROM THE ARMED, TRAINED AND DETERMINED MILITARY PRESENCE.
Want more? OK - perhaps they locked themselves in the engine room and bridge, and there's no other acess to the ships systems (on older ships, admitidly).
See previous note. They had to get aboard somehow.
Maybe they flooded the ship with knock-out gas? The list goes on...
This wouldn't work on a terrestrial naval vessel because of the way the ventilation system works. Why would they forget how to build compartmentalised ventilations systems in the future?
And frankly, mik, you'd make one ****e police negotiator. You'd let the hostage get scrubbed, just like that? Can you really see U.S military personel (for the sake of argument) letting their c/o get killed, saying "sorry sir, I can't let you in there, even if you have the captain hostage..."?
Billion dollar vessel armed with deadly weapons capable of killing thousands vs one man. The military is not run like the police. Try joining up, you'll find that out quite quickly.
OK, so this is probably not going to happen in the average GTVA millitary base, but for the Derelict campaign, set in a remote, relatively unsecured system, it was both plausible and a good bit of plot, so :p
Civilians on a remote military base anywhere. They have to get aboard. They have to defeat the crew. They have to do all of this before the weapons, engines and computer systems are scuttled.
This might happen in some universe where militaries don't have the competency of the average minerally deficient rock. Its not plausible in the real world, and its not plausible in a future with a military organisation like the GTVA. What? they forgot how warfare, guerilla tactics, piracy, etc work over the next several hundred years? Maybe they forgot how to read? Perhaps they disbanded the military and put together a new fleet command and staff from a pool of people selected for their complete lack of knowledge of the military?
Come on. Its not impossible, but it isn't so easy that they're going to take "a few Fenrises, Leviathans, or Aeoluses". I'll grant you a transport or a freighter. Maybe even a science vessel. A warship? Not bloody likely.
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Originally posted by mikhael
PIRATES... Piracy... pirates... pirates...
Originally posted by DG
Civilians
*points at difference*
In Derelict, the Lonewolf was taken over by civilian workers. To much time playing :V: games for you, mik - you're pirate obsessed :)
This wouldn't work on a terrestrial naval vessel because of the way the ventilation system works. Why would they forget how to build compartmentalised ventilations systems in the future?
The Lonewolf was an old, worn-out Fenris. Perhaps it didn't have a properly working ventilation system... Also, a small crew (and since the ship was under repair at the time, probably not of them many onboard), maybe they'd notice until it's too late?
Also, remember the Derelict mission - you were not allowed to fire on the civilian vessels. The local millitary bosses didn't want a bloody riot on their hands. Presumably, the guys inside were under the same orders - or maybe the guy guarding the airlock just plain couldn't bring himself to massacre a gang of civs, if they gave him the choice to get out the way or open fire. In Derelict, they were basically on a knife edge - a civilian shot by a guard could have sparked off a system-wide riot. Thousands could have been killed, starting with the millitary presence.
Lastly,
Try joining up, you'll find that out quite quickly
I fully intend to, and I may well. I'll let you know what happens.
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Also, remember the Derelict mission - you were not allowed to fire on the civilian vessels. The local millitary bosses didn't want a bloody riot on their hands. Presumably, the guys inside were under the same orders - or maybe the guy guarding the airlock just plain couldn't bring himself to massacre a gang of civs, if they gave him the choice to get out the way or open fire. In Derelict, they were basically on a knife edge - a civilian shot by a guard could have sparked off a system-wide riot. Thousands could have been killed, starting with the millitary presence.
That mission was kind of silly, since the "civilians" practically had a small fleet under their command; no amount of civilian fervor is going to let them seize what they had there. For example, a Fenris is supposed to have a crew of around 250; there could be a mutiny, but you would need many of the men on your side. If most of the ship's crew is loyal, it is essentially impossible for the civilians/pirates to do anything. (even if they somehow manage to get inside, they have no training, no organization and no equipment and will probably be rounded up without even a fight) Besides, it is unrealistic in the extreme; have you ever heard of any warship in real life taken over by some local mob of brigands? :D To have a revolt like this, you need the local military presence on your side.
Come on. Its not impossible, but it isn't so easy that they're going to take "a few Fenrises, Leviathans, or Aeoluses". I'll grant you a transport or a freighter. Maybe even a science vessel. A warship? Not bloody likely.
Exactly. :yes:
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DG, have you been reading my script? You've not only got the remote outpost, old ships, sympatetic crewers, delicate ploitical situation (system wide riot) all done, but you've also given me a few more ideas :). Thank you :yes:
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Originally posted by Black Wolf
DG, have you been reading my script? You've not only got the remote outpost, old ships, sympatetic crewers, delicate ploitical situation (system wide riot) all done, but you've also given me a few more ideas :). Thank you :yes:
Unfortunately. you can't do that - mikhael says so. Best to change it, perhaps...
Originally posted by CP5670
That mission was kind of silly, since the "civilians" practically had a small fleet under their command; no amount of civilian fervor is going to let them seize what they had there
Mosty of what they had were Tritons and what have you. They had - what - two cruisers? One of which turned out to be crewed by mercenaries...
Originally posted by CP5670
... even if they somehow manage to get inside, they have no training, no organization and no equipment and will probably be rounded up without even a fight...
When was the last time you played the mission? The guy running the Lonewolf tells you that his 'crew' can't operate the beam weaponry, and can barely even get the ship moving. It's all they can do to make a run for it when they see their little operation going tits up.
I fully agree that no-one is going to steal the Aquitaine from Third Fleet HQ, or the Colossus from its construction yards. But given the exact combination of condiditons in Derelict, it is not unreasonable, and I liked the mission. The stand-off at the start was quite tense - you didn't know whether the situation would be talked down, or if you'd be ordered to kill all the civvies. Good writing, there.
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erm...is it too late to go back on topic and say that the best way to blockade the node with the minimum no. of ships would be to form a wall shaped like an 'x' ie
X__X
_X_
X__ X (X=ship)
just a suggestion....:doubt:
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Not all of the 250 crew of a Fenris would be hardened space veterans that can sum up critical situations in a split second, willingly throw themselves on their sword, or deftly wield a deadly weapon. If a bunch of civillians manages to take hostage the senior officers, then the rest of the crew would be more likely to stand down peacefully. There would be some willing to fight back, but there would still be a desire to preserve their own lives and the lives of those around them.
On the other hand, if a ship was to be invaded with the intent of taking military equipment, wouldn't the civilians forfeit their "protected" status and be labelled as criminals? Meaning they'd be subject to whatever laws are necessary to curtail criminal behaviour. Basically the same thing as mikhael said.
To the initial question on blockading a node, it would depend on how smart the hijackers were. If they think in 3D, they'd possibly position their ships in an 8-pointed diamond formation, with extra ships then filling in the diagonals between, other large gaps, then positioned behind the initial grouping of ships. Given enough ships, it would become a multi-layered globe.
A ship enters and leaves subspace by essentially vibrating on a molecular level, allowing the ship to slip through the proverbial fabric of space. Now, to determine what happens next, we need to know how "solid" a ship is when it enters/leaves subspace - can a ship be shot at and be physically hit while it passes through the barrier? If not, then it would probably turn out that any object sitting in the exit point would interfere with the coalescing, becoming a big mass of combined atoms and molecules. If on the other hand the ship does have a solid pre-cohesion, it would displace anything pre-existing in normal space. Or, depending on the pre-existing energy states, the incoming object would find itself with nowhere to go and disintegrate.
Sound reasonable?
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OK, first off about the hikacking thing...
Ever see the movie Under Siege? Or Octopuss? Nuff said you either did or you didn't and can form you own opinions, butinthe end I think it is possible but not PLAUSIBLE..
Second, unless there is tech I don't know about for GTVA they have NO WAY of knowing a node is "blockcaded" unless they get a report. In Babylon 5 the jumpgates have beacons built in. These beacons tell ships what is on each side of a jumpgate (real space and subspace) though only at close proximity. "A ship is approaching the jump gate from subspace, look it's comming through now" :blah: GTVA is NOT that advanced (YET)
Third, I LOVE the idea about cargo contaners filled with mines.. BUt only if they want to totally seal the node (they don't expect to use it in any capacity both in/out at all!!!) That is the most brilliant solution cause they save their own personell from harm but inflict massive amounts of damage to any entering ships. The only problem is that once all the red shirts, er I mean poor souls have detonated the mines maybe after 4 or 5 ships the way is basically clear of mines except for the outer ring... I'd set teh cargo containers to explode if a ship comes within X meters set for proximity (the cargo is set with sensors that detonate the mines...).. NOW say they DON't have mines... Still they put civillian craft in the node but rig the engines on HOT! the place LOW GRADE civillian explosives all over their engines. Set for any type of collision. The crew is evacuated and the GTVA goes boom (like titanic) :lol:
Fourth, As for the node itself... Most sci-fi use Vectors. Like Star wars. To make the jump to hypespace the computer has to coordinate vectors. Let just argue for in FS2's case that the nodes are focused Vectors. If you are gonna USE a node to get to subspace (cause of your primitive tech - ops sorry) then you Have to enter/exit a system using that vector/face... So yeah I think it's a door and points in one direction so you pretty much CAN predict the general area any given ship will appear, BUT not exactly. BUt that means you CAN blockcade it!
Five that's why I like Warp from Star Trek. When a ship forms the warp field around themselves the've basicly ENTERED subspace at that moment, after that the factor is just a measure of speed within it... ST would rock in FS2 case of different tech... :blah:
Yeah I;m working on it.... :wink:
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When was the last time you played the mission? The guy running the Lonewolf tells you that his 'crew' can't operate the beam weaponry, and can barely even get the ship moving. It's all they can do to make a run for it when they see their little operation going tits up.
Wait, I think we're talking about different missions here; I meant the one where there was that large fleet of (disorganized) rebel cruisers, and the Nyarlathotep came in a bit later and scared them. That was the one that made little sense.
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Yes, we mean the same mission. You arrive back at the station, with orders to clear the area for the Narly's (:p) arrival, only to find a civilan strike-riot thing in full swing. The workes are cross cos they're quarrentined in-system and they've had no supplies for ages. It's basically a bit badly planned and more a show of their disgruntlement (is that even a word?), since when it all goes to hell (turns out some of the strikers are professional 'strike breakers' in diguise as local workers - in the Aeolus, I believe...) the Lonewolf crew tell you they can't do much to help, since they can barely operate the ship. One of the ships had fired a beam at the Narly in suprise at seeing the 'Lucifer', thus triggering the Narly's auto-defense systems (which fired the Narly's beams). Chaos ensues, as you try to take out the strike breakers and the beam cannons firing on the Narly, without damaging any civilan-crewed vessels. Tricky to keep a clear head in such a situation. You have to concentrate on what you're blasting, and evade enemy fire without being able to shoot back in most cases... one of my favourite Derelict missions :nod:
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Originally posted by diamondgeezer
Yes, we mean the same mission. You arrive back at the station, with orders to clear the area for the Narly's (:p) arrival, only to find a civilan strike-riot thing in full swing. The workes are cross cos they're quarrentined in-system and they've had no supplies for ages. It's basically a bit badly planned and more a show of their disgruntlement (is that even a word?), since when it all goes to hell (turns out some of the strikers are professional 'strike breakers' in diguise as local workers - in the Aeolus, I believe...) the Lonewolf crew tell you they can't do much to help, since they can barely operate the ship. One of the ships had fired a beam at the Narly in suprise at seeing the 'Lucifer', thus triggering the Narly's auto-defense systems (which fired the Narly's beams). Chaos ensues, as you try to take out the strike breakers and the beam cannons firing on the Narly, without damaging any civilan-crewed vessels. Tricky to keep a clear head in such a situation. You have to concentrate on what you're blasting, and evade enemy fire without being able to shoot back in most cases... one of my favourite Derelict missions :nod:
Sounds like a great mission, except the part about civilians managing to take a military vessel. ;)
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Originally posted by diamondgeezer
Yes, we mean the same mission. You arrive back at the station, with orders to clear the area for the Narly's (:p) arrival, only to find a civilan strike-riot thing in full swing. The workes are cross cos they're quarrentined in-system and they've had no supplies for ages. It's basically a bit badly planned and more a show of their disgruntlement (is that even a word?), since when it all goes to hell (turns out some of the strikers are professional 'strike breakers' in diguise as local workers - in the Aeolus, I believe...) the Lonewolf crew tell you they can't do much to help, since they can barely operate the ship. One of the ships had fired a beam at the Narly in suprise at seeing the 'Lucifer', thus triggering the Narly's auto-defense systems (which fired the Narly's beams). Chaos ensues, as you try to take out the strike breakers and the beam cannons firing on the Narly, without damaging any civilan-crewed vessels. Tricky to keep a clear head in such a situation. You have to concentrate on what you're blasting, and evade enemy fire without being able to shoot back in most cases... one of my favourite Derelict missions :nod:
Actually, its the Sai's crew that can "barely fly that thing". Plus, there were three union-buster vessels: the Nero *Aeolus*, the Cassius *Fenris* and the Brutus *Zephyrus*. :D
(Narly came pretty friggin' close to hitting the Sai ;) )
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Originally posted by Star Dragon
Fourth, As for the node itself... Most sci-fi use Vectors. Like Star wars. To make the jump to hypespace the computer has to coordinate vectors. Let just argue for in FS2's case that the nodes are focused Vectors. If you are gonna USE a node to get to subspace (cause of your primitive tech - ops sorry) then you Have to enter/exit a system using that vector/face... So yeah I think it's a door and points in one direction so you pretty much CAN predict the general area any given ship will appear, BUT not exactly. BUt that means you CAN blockcade it!
Why can't those vectors be calculated in 4 dimensions instead of just 3?
It sounds as though many people are of the notion that an entry into another plane must occur in 2 dimensions i.e. from only one directional plane. However subspace isn't simply 3 dimensions, therefore it stands to reason that the exit has to exist in at least 3 dimensions. Also, given that objects can enter intrastellar subspace from any angle, this would tend to lend support to nodes and their corridors also existing in this plane. If not, V would've prevented a ship from entering/leaving a node in FRED ;)