Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => Arts & Talents => Topic started by: beatspete on December 30, 2002, 07:05:41 pm
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WIP[/b]
Ship classification is also WIP, it started out as a carrier, but is now a cross between a carrier, supply ship, and an oil tanker.
http://www.angelfire.com/stars4/beatspete/supercarriergallery.html
Thats just the top surface done, the others wont be half as detailed. I'm working on some sort of pylon sticking out the front to dock with big ships, ie destroyers. Progress on that may be a bit slow, with new year's n' all ;7
Enjoy for now.
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Hmm, looks pretty good to me. :) And very detailed I must say. How many polys this far?
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Most of it's just basic rhino 3d shape, only the little ships are mesh's.. and as far as i know you can only do poly-counts on mesh's. I'd convert them, but the computers struggling a bit as it is, it would take all day. Those pipes would give a heap, and the 'turbo tube' the little glass pipe going around that would be some sort of transport system, would give you a ton of polys too.
So if someone can offer a guess, basically...
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Looks very cool indeed :yes:
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nice stuff :)
just one question: have you ever "played" MS Space Simulator?
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Originally posted by venom2506
nice stuff :)
just one question: have you ever "played" MS Space Simulator?
There's a Microsoft Space Simulator?
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Originally posted by mikhael
There's a Microsoft Space Simulator?
heh...my first question too...
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u mean alegiance or whats it called ?
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Random microrant.....
Why does it seem like so few people who design sci-fi models ever put armor or at least a cowling overtop the little fiddly bits?
Pilot: "Hey, power cables!" *ZOT*
Supercarrier: Power........failing........shutting.........down......
Right, I'm done.
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Originally posted by Shrike
Random microrant.....
Why does it seem like so few people who design sci-fi models ever put armor or at least a cowling overtop the little fiddly bits?
Pilot: "Hey, power cables!" *ZOT*
Supercarrier: Power........failing........shutting.........down......
Right, I'm done.
:lol:
without the fizzly bits, it just becomes un-interesting lumps of metal...
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Originally posted by Analazon
:lol:
without the fizzly bits, it just becomes un-interesting lumps of metal...
you just defined what a space ship is.
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Originally posted by Deepblue
you just defined what a space ship is.
precicely!
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Originally posted by Analazon
:lol:
without the fizzly bits, it just becomes un-interesting lumps of metal...
I would trust my life more with a hulk of uninteresting metal than a shiny, fizzly painting in space :p :nod:
That aside, for artistic purposes we'll assume those fizzly bits are protected by a secret invulnerable tag...... ;)
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It's not greebles that bothers me, it's the rampant use of 'greeble components' on military vessels. Look at modern warships. Yes, they've got fiddly bits, but generally these are only visible because they cannot be put behind some sort of protection.
But so many people just coat their military models in greebles. Sure, it looks neat, but it's really stupid from a practical standpoint.
And you don't need tons of greebles to make a ship look interesting. Case in point, the Hyperion cruiser from B5. Very few sections that are exposed components, but still cool looking.
Anyhow, to get this back on topic, the ship here makes me think much more civilian than military, because of all the exterior fittings and the general randomness of the components. More like a deep-range explorer vessel, perhaps. One with a bunch of daughtercrat to do surveys, landings, etc. I think that'd be a neat tack to take with it actually.
My two cents.
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Originally posted by Shrike
But so many people just coat their military models in greebles. Sure, it looks neat, but it's really stupid from a practical standpoint.
Warships in space is a pretty stupid idea from a practical standpoint. Aside from the huge expense in time, manpower and resources, there's all of that physics stuff to work around. Like mass and inertia and pressure and...
Don't bring practicality into it. Its apples and oranges. Accept the greebles (including snaking tubes and cables) and move along. Suspension of disbelief, etc. Its okay. I promise.
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:rolleyes:
That has to be one of the stupidest arguments I've seen. Spacebound warships are not currently feasible, therefore we should accept stupid design features as workable and to be expected?
People once thought that airplanes would never be useful beyond scouting, and look at them now. There's no law that says space warships won't be developed at some point.
If you were to build a space warship, would you leave all kinds of juicy components sitting out where they could be picked off by the smallest weapons? I would hope not. You're confusing the argument be equating possibility and practicallity.
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Looks great!!! How many polygons???
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Originally posted by NeoHunter
Looks great!!! How many polygons???
Most of it's just basic rhino 3d shape, only the little ships are mesh's.. and as far as i know you can only do poly-counts on mesh's. I'd convert them, but the computers struggling a bit as it is, it would take all day. Those pipes would give a heap, and the 'turbo tube' the little glass pipe going around that would be some sort of transport system, would give you a ton of polys too.
:)
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Originally posted by Shrike
Look at modern warships. Yes, they've got fiddly bits, but generally these are only visible because they cannot be put behind some sort of protection.
Fiddly bits where?
(http://msnbc.com/local/pencilnews/IMAGES/ATTACKf117.jpg)
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Um..... that's a plane. Not a warship. Aerodynamic concerns apply.
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Originally posted by Shrike
Random microrant.....
Why does it seem like so few people who design sci-fi models ever put armor or at least a cowling overtop the little fiddly bits?
This is why i'm not sure what it is. At the moment its more of a trade ship than a carrier.
I might remove all the pipes and storage tanks, and maybe the two towers at the front. Then it would resemble a carrier a bit more, origionally it was just supposed to have a few platforms and a control tower for landing troop transports, etc.
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Hey, like I said, I think it looks neat as more of a civilian vessel, that's all. Greebles do look cool. It's just rampant greebling on warships that gets me, that's all.
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ex-GTVA carrier converted into trade ship... now there's an idea.
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Piping. Lots of piping. And cranes. Why do they need cranes?
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Originally posted by Shrike
Um..... that's a plane. Not a warship. Aerodynamic concerns apply.
her... they don't apply relly well in THAT case :D
yeah, there's been a ms space simulator, oh, ages ago ( a damn complicated thing, but it was cool, there was even the black hole in the center of the glaxy, tho you had to compress time to ridiculous amounts to get there, and when you reached the BH, the time you were slowing down, well, you had reached the other side of the galaxy already :p -took some practice :D ). I asked that coz one of the ships docked to a crane looks almost exactly like the civilian liner that was here
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Originally posted by Shrike
:rolleyes:
That has to be one of the stupidest arguments I've seen. Spacebound warships are not currently feasible, therefore we should accept stupid design features as workable and to be expected?
Not currently feasible, nor likely to be before we wipe ourselves off the face of the planet. Stupid design features put on by amatuers for pictures MEANT FOR WOW FACTOR not for serious use as blueprints are perfectly acceptable and, in fact, expected. You want realism? Go to JPL, Boeing, etc. You want interesting, come to the HLP Art Forum. ;)
If you were to build a space warship, would you leave all kinds of juicy components sitting out where they could be picked off by the smallest weapons? I would hope not. You're confusing the argument be equating possibility and practicallity.
On Practicality: its not practical now, nor will it be in the forseeable future to build pressurised environments with enough armor to protect their precious, sensitive living and non-living cargoes (people, power systems, etc). Unless you can posit something plausible that would make a spacebound warship feasible based on the physics that you and I know, I suggest you give up on the practicality argument.
On Possibility: I do not rule out the possibility unconditionally. It is possible to do most anything, but it goes back to practicality.
In the end it comes down to "wouldn't this look neat right here?" and when you're dealing with art, that's all that really counts. I'm all for reality, and believability--after all, I put HEAT PANELS on the Mjolnir. When you can explain to me where all these smooth, well armored warships are dumping their thermal waste, then I'll explain why fiddly bits are cool and required. Until then, leave the fiddly bits alone. We likes 'em.
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Well it would be possible to build a large warpship in space. If you started with a space station to work from, that sorts out a lot of the logistics. I recon a lot of the construction (or a freespace style ship atleast) would be automated. If you had a few asteroids of suitable compostition you could carve your ship out from that, and add the pre-fabricated insides.
Smaller ships would be easily enough built from scratch. Solid components, (things other than computers etc) woulb be put together in the vacum, once they are all together the ship is filled with air, then all the electronics and 'furnature' are installed by hand. Armour plating is added last.
...as a side note, if the armour on an Orion (and other large ships) is apparently 30m thick, why are there windows?
Update: polycount = 257000, thats with a fairly conservative mesh.
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Originally posted by beatspete
...as a side note, if the armour on an Orion (and other large ships) is apparently 30m thick, why are there windows?
It looks great beatspete. As for the Orion: windows look cool. Make no sense at all on a warship, but it looks cool. When you start trying to mesh real world concerns with fantastic science fantasy worlds (like Freespace, or the other worlds most of us build these ships for) you end up with dumb results, like 30m thick armored windows on Orions. Or why one man fighters have 8m long cockpits for one pilot.
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Originally posted by mikhael
Not currently feasible, nor likely to be before we wipe ourselves off the face of the planet. Stupid design features put on by amatuers for pictures MEANT FOR WOW FACTOR not for serious use as blueprints are perfectly acceptable and, in fact, expected. You want realism? Go to JPL, Boeing, etc. You want interesting, come to the HLP Art Forum. ;
The thing is, you can make interesting without having exposed vital components everywhere. Don't just use greebles to break up large areas, use panel lines or hatches/access panels or turrets or sensors. All of these would be expected to feature on the outside of a warship. There's lots of stuff you can put on.
Basically, put things that go under armor, under armor, and put things that don't, overtop. Don't need to be a rocket scientist for that one. ;)
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errr.. It looks like a City-boat if you ask me.
Like a small town on a boat frame or something.. at least with the towers and silos. Not really a warship, and not a spaceship.
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Originally posted by Shrike
Basically, put things that go under armor, under armor, and put things that don't, overtop. Don't need to be a rocket scientist for that one. ;)
oh yeah, Mr. Know It All, Explain the Y-wing in Star Wars! ;)
That's one big huge damn greeble.
I see your point, but I disgree with you because of one basic fact about greebling: Greebles and nurnies are not supposed to represent ANYTHING. They're just to add detail and break up those big polys. As soon as you start looking at the greebling closely and seeking meaning, you're losing the basic purpose. They really are there just to break it up and look cool. that's just my opinion though.
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Originally posted by mikhael
oh yeah, Mr. Know It All, Explain the Y-wing in Star Wars! ;)
That's one big huge damn greeble.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that deliberate? I thought I saw somewhere that the Y-Wings look like that because the rebel techs simply stopped replacing the cowlings so it was one less maintenance issue. Plus, if you have a cowling, an R2 unit can't easily access damaged parts in-mission.
I see your point, but I disgree with you because of one basic fact about greebling: Greebles and nurnies are not supposed to represent ANYTHING. They're just to add detail and break up those big polys. As soon as you start looking at the greebling closely and seeking meaning, you're losing the basic purpose. They really are there just to break it up and look cool. that's just my opinion though. [/B]
I understand what you mean. I just prefer starting with objects that have a clear meaning and keeping the meaningless greebles to a minimum.
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Meh, alot of the Star Wars ships have greebles. The Y Wing is a good example. But I don't think star wars ships have ever been big for hull integrity, relying mostly on shields, so the greebles aren't as important as they would be on Freespace ships where they need all the armor and protection they can get.
And if you want more greebles, point out the Milenium Falcon, Nebulon-B Frigate or Corellion Corvette.
EDIT: Yeah, shrike's right. Besides, look at the alliances ships. They are bassically cobbled together almost and most likely are under constant repair, replaceing parts and everything, while the Empire has their uniform tie fighters and such.
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And compare them to the Star Destroyer, the premier warship of the Empire. It has greebles, but most of the surface is flat, slabbed armor plate, broken up by panel lines, low raises, etc.
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Originally posted by Shrike
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that deliberate? I thought I saw somewhere that the Y-Wings look like that because the rebel techs simply stopped replacing the cowlings so it was one less maintenance issue. Plus, if you have a cowling, an R2 unit can't easily access damaged parts in-mission.
I read the same thing, Shrike. Its a good explanation of the greeble party that the Y-wing is (its the single most greebled model in starwars, except perhaps the Falcon). In reality, its just there to look cool. The explanation was made up later.
How the hell does an R2 unit repair anything on a Y-wing in a mission anyway?
Greebles are easier than proper hull plating anyway. ;)
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Originally posted by Shrike
And compare them to the Star Destroyer, the premier warship of the Empire. It has greebles, but most of the surface is flat, slabbed armor plate, broken up by panel lines, low raises, etc.
Not to mention the Death Star... hmm, maybe you can cover the thing in exhaust ports and trenches. ;)
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:lol:
well, someone mentioned already that ships do need to dissapate their heat, and it has to be done somehow...
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Shrike: I think, in imagining that warships would use heavy armor, you're envisioning one type of combat that likely wouldn't take place in space. Tanks, for example, are pretty heavily armored because they're built to be in the center of the action, blasting away. Battleships and airplanes can have external systems all they like (airplanes do less so for aerodynamics; say helicopters, which don't need no stinkin' aerodynamics) because they're not built to get hit a lot. And this is likely what a space battle would actually be like- space is HUGE, movement through it is really slow, and at any rate almost any amount of armor wouldn't be doing much good against a burst of plasma or a focussed heating laser. Conflicts would likely take place with the different forces separated by MILES, with lots of really big ships rather than large amounts of small, easily destroyed, inefficient fighters. "True" spaceships would be snipers, not tanks, and would be built accordingly.
Never mind that sensors aren't gonna do you much good inside several feet of metal, that shield generators probably wouldn't generate a very effective shield under the fiftieth layer of hullplate, that fighters can't just tunnel through armor, and that heating/waste/exit ports aren't gonna lead into nothing.
That's all in the abstract, though. This ship, I don't like the way it looks like an airport riding on a rocket. Some of those things DO belong in a hole inside, and at least set it up so that it doesn't look like it only has gravity going down. The greebling looks quite sweet, good variety there. It's a pity that you can't really see it unless you're up practically on the ship itself, and that that must hog a hell of a lot of processor space.
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Originally posted by StrykeIX
Never mind that sensors aren't gonna do you much good inside several feet of metal...
Oooh, don't say that. Most "fiddly" bits on Shrike's models are sensors systems. :D
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Originally posted by beatspete
http://www.angelfire.com/stars4/beatspete/supercarriergallery.html
*whispers* Saratoga... :nervous:
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Is that a ship from Frontier (Elite 2) I see in one those pics?
I mean those small ships that are docked to the ship
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Originally posted by Ryx
Is that a ship from Frontier (Elite 2) I see in one those pics?
:lol: Yes. There are two Panther Clippers, 4 imperial couriers, and a lynx bulk carrier docked aswell. I was wondering how long it would take someone to notice.