Hard Light Productions Forums
Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => The Modding Workshop => Topic started by: Raptor on January 15, 2003, 11:06:40 am
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Okay, since I have been able to get single Lod models, without any submodels, into the game, I have been practicing with missile models.
As such, I began to redo the Volition missile models. Making them much higher Detailed models.
I'm sick of launching blocky, five sided torpedos with arwful maps (Helios). Also, when launching missiles, quite often, the maps on the craft show missile ports that are smaller than the missile launched from them.
Now, as I've been doing this, I have been working on new craft designs during spare time. The main one at this point is a new heavy assault bomber, a BIG one. Naturally, I want it to carry Helios torpedos.
Problem: The Helios torpedo model is so BIG, to carry more than four of them would make the bomber the size of a small cruiser, and look rubbish.
So, question: should I make new versions of the Helios and Cyclops, which are smaller than the orginal models, and would fit in the launchers on the craft maps? Or should I keep them the same size (much higher detail, of course)?
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Make them smaller....It is somewhat disconcerting to see a missle fly out of your ship that is half the size of said ship....though it is amusing in it's own little way
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Inferno's Notus could still handle them. :D
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I'd say keep them the current size, coz sometimes you're supposed to shoot them down, if they're too small, well...
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Keep them the same size and make a Helios MK II which is smaller. Best of both worlds :)
Remember what venom said though if you're counting on the player (or even enemy) shooting down bombs though.
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Originally posted by Raptor
The Helios torpedo model is so BIG...
Meh. Realism, smealism.
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You guys actually spend time looking at the quality of the missile models? Hardcore. :p They're low poly for a reason; because they're small and you're not supposed to look at them under 'beauty shot' conditions. At least that's the idea. ;)
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Originally posted by Shrike
You guys actually spend time looking at the quality of the missile models? Hardcore. :p They're low poly for a reason; because they're small and you're not supposed to look at them under 'beauty shot' conditions. At least that's the idea. ;)
for missiles, I agree. but it's true the big bombs are quite visible, and so you can see how ugly they are :p
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As said, I began redoing them as practice.
Also, I have created new missile weapons ( mainly for the Shivans), and reusing the small models over and over gets boring.
The orginal models may look better, if they had better maps (Disruptor Missile case in point)
I had planed to keep them the same size orginally, I just though I had better see what people would like.
BTW, big bomber form before has a finalished design, will upload scan at some point (drawing on paper with pencil).
Carrys 4 helios torpedos, and 40 trebuchets ;7:thepimp: :yes:
be afraid, be very afraid.......:shaking:
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Originally posted by Raptor
As said, I began redoing them as practice.
Also, I have created new missile weapons ( mainly for the Shivans), and reusing the small models over and over gets boring.
The orginal models may look better, if they had better maps (Disruptor Missile case in point)
I had planed to keep them the same size orginally, I just though I had better see what people would like.
BTW, big bomber form before has a finalished design, will upload scan at some point (drawing on paper with pencil).
Carrys 4 helios torpedos, and 40 trebuchets ;7:thepimp: :yes:
be afraid, be very afraid.......:shaking:
That makes me think I'll have to make some missiles and bombs for OTT some day... What a pain :doubt:
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UPDATE: Will soon be uploading a example pic (trebuchet), as long as everything goes well......:shaking:
BTW, are there only 11 people who browse the forums regularly? Cause how many be people who have voted so far.:(
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It seems like a cool idea :0
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This'll be interesting.
Btw, when Shrike said:
[q]Hardcore[/q]
I suddenly got the image of a tracksuit-clad ned being ejected from The Shack or Trash. :nervous:
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Forgot to do this.
Originally posted by SKYNET-011
Inferno's Notus could still handle them. :D
Maybe, but it's a user designed craft. I was refering to the V designs, where we see Cyclops Torpedos (currently 2m dia, 6.8m long) being launched from tubes which would only allow Tempests through.
Sudden thought: The only time you use the Helios is against the first Sathanas, when you are flying the Bakha.(spelling:confused: ).
This craft could just about hold 2 helios torpedos, but it would be a very tight fit. And would use each of the side pod things to hold one each. Try it yourself (Helios currently 3m dia, 9.9m long).
Vyper, Alikchi, please elaborate:blah:
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I think the topic calls for a repost of these pics (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/karajorma/freespace/images/Myrmidon&Helios01.jpg)
(http://homepage.ntlworld.com/karajorma/freespace/images/Myrmidon&Helios02.jpg)
That's a Helios compared against a Myrmidon. Try launching one of those if you want to see silly :)
*note - please do not reignite the myrmidon/helios debate again I only posted this cause it's probably one of the sillier ones in the game*
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...i belive i have a solution...
http://www.angelfire.com/stars4/beatspete/bombstrap.html
:nod:
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Originally posted by beatspete
...i belive i have a solution...
http://www.angelfire.com/stars4/beatspete/bombstrap.html
:nod:
All well and good, but what happens when you fire the torpedo?
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Suppose it just drags you along with it. :blah:
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More importantly, what happens when that fighter that is after you starts shooting at your bomber's underside? I don't think that shields will protect you if the bomb goes off inside the shield.
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Originally posted by StratComm
More importantly, what happens when that fighter that is after you starts shooting at your bomber's underside? I don't think that shields will protect you if the bomb goes off inside the shield.
Wouldn't the shield protect the bomb from enemy fire...
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Good grief.... :V: allowed Myrmidons to carry Helios torps!?! What were they thinking.
*whaps self
But other than that, it looks like the other Helios-capable bombers are about the right size to carry Helios torps. And considering how few one can carry, I don't think the size of the torps should be reduced. More triangles would be nice tho as would a skin remap.
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Originally posted by Hades
Wouldn't the shield protect the bomb from enemy fire...
not once your shield collapses, and bombs have a much lower hull strength than even the weakest fighter.
Originally posted by ChronoReverse
Good grief.... :V: allowed Myrmidons to carry Helios torps!?! What were they thinking.
*whaps self
But other than that, it looks like the other Helios-capable bombers are about the right size to carry Helios torps. And considering how few one can carry, I don't think the size of the torps should be reduced. More triangles would be nice tho as would a skin remap.
It's an easter egg - :V: did that intentionally but never allowed the combination in any of their missions.
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Here is my best example of what I have been working on, hopefully.
http://www.angelfire.com/space2/raptorsnest/treb.html
[EDIT] Okay, not working, I'll get back to you.........:mad:
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copy pic link, paste, save as.
not bad, but apply some smoothing to it, being able to see the polys isn't very good. and maybe it's a bit too much, I think.
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Originally posted by venom2506
but apply some smoothing to it, being able to see the polys isn't very good. and maybe it's a bit too much, I think.
"smoothing", is that a function of Truespace? I was counting my self lucky in getting this into the game, and STABLE, in the first place.
In game, the polys don't show as much.
If you can point out the 'smooth' control, that would help. Truespace 2 version, however, so it may not be in there.
BTW, <cue shocked voice>
Originally posted by venom2506
not bad,
NOT BAD????:wtf: That is an almost exact replica of the tech room ani!
<un-cue shocked voice>
EDIT: I still can't get it, even copy shortcut-and-paste isn't working. Must be doing sometihng wrong......
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I'm not a TS user, but yeah, TS must have smoothing.
Well, yeah, not bad, I'll be in owe if you make something more impressive than a missile ;)
btw, what's the polycount?
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Ah, now I understand. Compared to the great warships and fighters being created by people who have been here a long time (or not, eg Fnordbear (sp?)), this is not very good.
I suppose I should have used an in gane shot than a modelview pic.
I would create my big nasty bomber, but I have yet to figure out how to do seperate submodels in TS. Give me time;) .
As for polycount, the original had, in the missile at LOD0, 31 polys. My version has 634.
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Originally posted by Raptor
Ah, now I understand. Compared to the great warships and fighters being created by people who have been here a long time (or not, eg Fnordbear (sp?)), this is not very good.
no, you don't understand. never said it was not very good, damn :p I just say that it's just a missile, not the best subject to show your skills: I can do a missile in 3 minutes, it's just a matter of drawing a pretty spline, lathe it, add a few extruded fins, voila :)
But that doesn't mean it's not good just because it's simple, don't get me wrong.
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Originally posted by beatspete
...i belive i have a solution...
http://www.angelfire.com/stars4/beatspete/bombstrap.html
:nod:
Now that would be cool - you may need to sexp your way though the firing process, and use specially set up docking points, but that would make for an amazing mission, unique and interesting (if potentially frustratring. If you se tup the warhead model with some decentish hitpoints (for a missile) and then put it on the escort list, you could have missile status, you'd know when it was being shot up - Twould also be brilliant when fighting another FS1 style battle we must win - the GTVA developed the missile,, but didn't have the time to develop the bomber - as such, you're going in on manual :D
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Originally posted by Raptor
Ah, now I understand. Compared to the great warships and fighters being created by people who have been here a long time (or not, eg Fnordbear (sp?)), this is not very good.
I suppose I should have used an in gane shot than a modelview pic.
I would create my big nasty bomber, but I have yet to figure out how to do seperate submodels in TS. Give me time;) .
As for polycount, the original had, in the missile at LOD0, 31 polys. My version has 634.
That's what I was afraid of. While it's nice to have a more detailed missile, I worry a little bit about the prospect of having that many more polies rendered just for that small effect gain. I was thinking that something along the lines of 150 polies would be about max. And trebs aren't that concerning, because you'd never see more than say 10 of them in a mission at any given time. Remaking a hornet or tornado in this fashion, though, could have a lot of potential problems.
On the flip side, it is a good model and it shows that you have potential. Learn to do fighters (if just the hull for now) and you'll get respect around here really fast.
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well, so far, I've done Trebuchet, Hornet, Tempest and Cyclops. No problems so far.
Helios is still WIP.
Partly why I'm doing this is to give new missile models for the shivans. Nasty spikey things;)
On the flip side, it is a good model and it shows that you have potential. Learn to do fighters (if just the hull for now) and you'll get respect around here really fast.
Hmm, I'll try to get my early fighter in again. Tried twice before. First time, sort of in, but thursters didn't work. Second, had 7 (?) submodels, six blank, with the seventh being only the thrusters (still not working)!:doubt:
To be fair, I've done very little lately, RLtm has been rather demanding.
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Originally posted by Raptor
Hmm, I'll try to get my early fighter in again. Tried twice before. First time, sort of in, but thursters didn't work. Second, had 7 (?) submodels, six blank, with the seventh being only the thrusters (still not working)!:doubt:
:lol:
sorry, not laughing at you, it reminds me. I tried a capship with one turret when I arrived here. still got at least 15 pofs of this one. the capship always had countless blank submodels, on some pofs the turrets did show, but they never worked :doubt:
that resulted in me deciding I would never use TS again :p
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Originally posted by venom2506
:lol:
sorry, not laughing at you, it reminds me. I tried a capship with one turret when I arrived here. still got at least 15 pofs of this one. the capship always had countless blank submodels, on some pofs the turrets did show, but they never worked :doubt:
that resulted in me deciding I would never use TS again :p
Yes, my first attempt was also a cap ship, corvette class. This was over a year ago, and I had NO IDEA what I was doing, so I was surprised when the model got though, but had NO textures, all the turret submodels were part of the hull, and it was orintated(SP?) like the RBC, the 'top' of the model was the front, and the 'back' was the keel:ick
Not good. Not good at all...
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Ok, a few extra pictures for you all.
We have:
my heavy fighter, the Icarus, firing trebuchets,
http://www.angelfire.com/space2/raptorsnest/treb-ic.html
a view of my new hornet,
http://www.angelfire.com/space2/raptorsnest/hornet.html
my first version of my new model fighter, the harpy,
http://www.angelfire.com/space2/raptorsnest/harpy.html
and a view of the harpy firing the hornet.
http://www.angelfire.com/space2/raptorsnest/harp-hor.html
Now, I know that those missile maps are very bright and sharp compared to the craft. I am planing to edit this.
The current harpy model is in need of some reworking. I may change the design around the ends of the wings, and it does need rescaling (currently ~20% larger than a dragon)
Oh, Stratcomm, I ran a test. 2 squadrons of fighters, inculding me, with an Aeolus with hornet launchers, all craft loaded with hornets, attacking a Sathanas.
Result: there was slowdown, with my hanging back, facing the fight, and all other craft double launching hornets. Three of the craft were also harpys which, like the missiles, have only one LOD.
Adding LODs would cut the slow down, I feel.
I've just got to figure out how to do that in TS2......:confused:
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All that I'm seeing is red x's
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That's cuz it's in tga format.
Right click the red X. Select properties and then copy the image url directly to the address bar to see them.
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Maybe I should convert them to PCX images, or something else......
Comments, people?
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Just use jpegs...
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UPDATE
Okay, all tga pictures replaced with jpeg versions.
Hopefully people can see them..........:nervous:
Comments?
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They look good. I hope you have LODs for them, though.
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Originally posted by Sesquipedalian
They look good. I hope you have LODs for them, though.
Thats the problem. I don't know how to do LODs in TS2.
If anyone arounds knows how, please PM me.
Otherwise, well, I'll just have to experment....:nervous:
BTW, thanks Ses.
Anyway, back to the poll (I didn't realise that it had been that long ago that I posted this!), there is a slight marjority in favor of smaller warheads.
Current thinking:
Tusmani ~ 1 m dia (currently 2 or 3, depends which axis you measure against)
Harbinger ~ 1.5m dia (currently about 2)
Cyclops ~ 1.25m dia (currently about 2)
Helios ~ 1.75 - 2m dia Currently about 3)
Point about shooting down bombs:
Cpu shoots down ****lettos fine, and their about the size of a Treb. As for the player, well, thats what a Subach or moring star is good at! ;)
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Hmmm, no replies for a while.........:(