Hard Light Productions Forums

Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Carl on February 15, 2003, 12:09:16 am

Title: Dolly's dead
Post by: Carl on February 15, 2003, 12:09:16 am
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&cid=514&ncid=514&e=3&u=/ap/20030214/ap_on_sc/dolly_dies_9

i guess they didn't have that cloning thing down as well as they thought.
Title: Dolly's dead
Post by: Stryke 9 on February 15, 2003, 12:12:31 am
Well, ****, did they really expect to get it perfect the first time?

What I like are the assholes who are taking this as evidence that cloning should be banned forever. I can imagine these people's great-grandparents were around just in time to heckle the airplane in the exact same way.:D
Title: Dolly's dead
Post by: Carl on February 15, 2003, 12:22:42 am
well, it really wasn't technically the first time, it was the first time it actually lived for a reasonable amount of time. when you make a clone, you impregnate the mother with hundreds of embryos, because the chances are so slim of it actually working.
Title: Dolly's dead
Post by: Galemp on February 15, 2003, 12:28:32 am
Quote
Ian Wilmut, the leader of the team that created Dolly, said it was unlikely her illness was attributable to being a clone.


So there. :p
Title: Dolly's dead
Post by: Stryke 9 on February 15, 2003, 12:30:45 am
But she'd gotten premature arthritis and **** before. Odds are, there was some gene damage- after all, modern methods are a pretty crude way of extracting genes.
Title: Dolly's dead
Post by: CP5670 on February 15, 2003, 12:33:36 am
It says that there were a number of other sheep nearby with the same disease and the various other clones in the world are fine, so I would think the cause is rather obvious in this case... :p
Title: Dolly's dead
Post by: Stryke 9 on February 15, 2003, 12:37:55 am
Well, seeing the fundies' record for being right when it comes to science, you know what that means...


WE'VE RELEESED COMMUNACABLE GIEN DISORDARS! OH TEH GNO!
Title: Dolly's dead
Post by: Falcon X on February 15, 2003, 03:44:51 am
Quote
Originally posted by Stryke 9
But she'd gotten premature arthritis and **** before. Odds are, there was some gene damage- after all, modern methods are a pretty crude way of extracting genes.


It's all about Tellemeres.  The body's clock.  If you read how they do that type of cloning... she was acutally rather old when she was born.
Title: Dolly's dead
Post by: Fineus on February 15, 2003, 04:21:07 am
Quote
Originally posted by GalacticEmperor


So there. :p

You don't honestly expect the man to say "oh yeah, we had problems with the cloning process that lead to this... we can't do it right" do you? :)
Title: Dolly's dead
Post by: Barbarian on February 15, 2003, 05:17:41 am
1 Question - Why Clone, Whats the Point - all that will hapen is that the Political Leaders will get Cloned i the End - Imagine that, 10 Tony Blairs or George Bushes:shaking: :nervous: :shaking:
Title: Dolly's dead
Post by: Tiara on February 15, 2003, 05:21:57 am
Thats a scary thought barbarian...

But I'm all for pharmaceutical cloning. The cloning of tissues, cells etc to cure diseases. But not reproductive cloning.
Title: Dolly's dead
Post by: Turnsky on February 15, 2003, 05:11:22 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Barbarian
1 Question - Why Clone, Whats the Point - all that will hapen is that the Political Leaders will get Cloned i the End - Imagine that, 10 Tony Blairs or George Bushes:shaking: :nervous: :shaking:


or two carls :shaking:
Title: Dolly's dead
Post by: Martinus on February 15, 2003, 06:24:37 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Turnsky


or two carls :shaking:


[color=66ff00]Do Shivans have DNA? Ahhh... another pseudo scientific possibility awaiting to be illuminated...

Or something.

[/color]
Title: Dolly's dead
Post by: karajorma on February 15, 2003, 07:12:44 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Barbarian
1 Question - Why Clone, Whats the Point


Still going to be saying that if 30 years from now one of your kidneys packs up and you can`t get a transplant? Cloning and Stem cell research go hand in hand. Master it and we could grow you a new kidney in a few weeks or months from a cheek swab.

It would also be good for curing diseases like parkinsons and altzhiemers (sp)
Title: Dolly's dead
Post by: Falcon X on February 15, 2003, 07:20:47 pm
You guys have absolutely no education into Biology or cloning do you?

They won't be identical personalities.  They'll look the same... but keep in mind the thing has to grow... ie. it'll be a baby.  But a 50 year old baby.  The DNA has been spliced to many times.  (That's when you lose tellemers and thus aging occurs.  When you're out of them, the cell no longer reproduces.)

Seriously no wonder hysteria happens all of the time now... no one is educated worth a damn.
Title: Dolly's dead
Post by: Turnsky on February 15, 2003, 09:55:25 pm
and there's the catch ladies and gentlemen.. :nod:
Title: Dolly's dead
Post by: an0n on February 15, 2003, 09:57:05 pm
Spinal tap?
Title: Dolly's dead
Post by: Stryke 9 on February 15, 2003, 10:49:58 pm
Er... I didn't see anything that suggested that anyone thought a clone would think and act like you, except for the predictable dumb jokes that have been recycled from back when people believed the four humors controlled your body.

There'd be some DNA damage, but it's not a "50 year old baby" at all. In fact, most of the degradation likely comes from the extraction and insertion process (sticking a needle in a cell, sucking up an infinitely complex and delicate chemical compound, then squirting it into another cell is a recipe for a few mismatched mucleotides at best)- if your DNA itself mutated and degraded that dramatically and that fast, you'd have 30 different kinds of cancer by age 30. As it is, that **** can last for 20,000 years when well-preserved, and that's the inside margin.

The telomeres themselves may be slightly more prone to degradation, but not that much- get the DNA from a nerve cell or something else that hasn't replicated n billion times, everything'd be practically good as new- which, to all intents and purposes, it would be. That's what they get them from normally, precisely for this reason. And even if they didn't- telomeres can repair or replace themselves, which is a known fact, and they generally do.

At any rate, the fact that old people well beyond their seventies still have replicating cells (or else they'd be dust in short order) is a testament to the fact that major chromosome damage does not occur over time. Generally, it's a mechanical failure that does someone in, something that has little or nothing to do with degrading genes. The one exception is cancer, which means that only a handful of copies of DNA out of billions went funky.

In other words, wait until you actually know substantially more than other people around you before getting snooty. Better yet, don't do it at all, because you just end up looking an asshole when someone comes around and proves you wrong.
Title: Dolly's dead
Post by: elorran on February 15, 2003, 10:54:26 pm
Cloned sheep indeed, I tell ya, some people will do anything for a bit of extra 'business' on the side ;)
Title: Dolly's dead
Post by: Stryke 9 on February 15, 2003, 11:08:32 pm
Is it a menage a trois when the other two are clones?
Title: Dolly's dead
Post by: Lonestar on February 16, 2003, 01:01:03 am
So the sheep died. Its the natural order of things. Whats amazing is the fact they proved it can be done, and in time it will be perfected as anything else.

I for one wldnt want to wait 10yrs for a compatible heart, kidney, liver, or lung donor. Id rather pay 25,000 to grow one in a few days, then possibly face death.
These guys deserve all the support they get, and all the naysayers, well make a line, we will ensure u dont get any cloned tissues, or organs, and us smart and in the future people will live 30 yrs longer then you.

Sounds good to me!
Title: Dolly's dead
Post by: an0n on February 16, 2003, 07:41:11 am
Pfff. If you want a quick new kidney, all you need to do is get some of that bio-foam stuff, shape it like a kidney, stick some kidney cells to it and wait for it to grow into a fully functional organ. Then you stick it in yer body and let your immune system 'repair' it so it's attatched to what it needs to be.
Title: Dolly's dead
Post by: Martinus on February 16, 2003, 10:25:05 am
Quote
Originally posted by an0n
Spinal tap?


[color=66ff00] "No. Don't touch it. Don't even point at it."
[/color]
Title: Dolly's dead
Post by: Martinus on February 16, 2003, 10:30:08 am
[color=66ff00]BTW is it not obvious that no matter what the religious/moral views that cloning will at some point become acceptable?

All the people who are willing to accept cloned organs etc. are going to be the survivors in the long run, anyhow if you throw enough money at pig **** you could make it popular and there's going to be a lot more money thrown at cloning for the forseeable future. (unless God chooses to smite us... ;)  )


[/color]
Title: Dolly's dead
Post by: Lonestar on February 16, 2003, 01:03:30 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Maeglamor
[color=66ff00]BTW is it not obvious that no matter what the religious/moral views that cloning will at some point become acceptable?

All the people who are willing to accept cloned organs etc. are going to be the survivors in the long run, anyhow if you throw enough money at pig **** you could make it popular and there's going to be a lot more money thrown at cloning for the forseeable future. (unless God chooses to smite us... ;)  )


[/color]


God has SMited us, we have George W. Bush in US office, and saddam hussein running the oil.