Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Black Wolf on February 15, 2003, 12:16:02 pm
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Aetheism will now win every religion debate ever posted on this forum with ammo like this supplied to us :D
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com
I was particularly fond of this one :)
8:20-21 Noah kills the "clean beasts" and burns their dead bodies for God. According to 7:8 this would have caused the extinction of all "clean" animals since only two of each were taken onto the ark. "And the Lord smelled a sweet savor." After this God "said in his heart" that he'd never do it again because "man's heart is evil from his youth." So God killed all living things (6:5) because humans are evil, and then promises not to do it again (8:21) because humans are evil. The mind of God is a frightening thing.
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Everyone knows that Ecclesiastes is the best. book. EVAR.
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:rolleyes:
A humourous collection of generalisations, (intentional) mis-assumptions, and spurious inanities. Nothing I've seen in there could last 3 seconds in a religious debate against even me, let alone someone who really knows what they are about.
For your sited example:
1) Actually, there were seven pairs of each clean animal, not just one pair (Gen 7:1).
2) So God killed all living things (6:5) because humans are evil, and then promises not to do it again (8:21) because humans are evil. The mind of God is a frightening thing.
This is based on an intentional misreading. A proper translation of the verses in question is Then Noah built an altar to the LORD and, taking some of all the clean animals and clean birds, he sacrificed burnt offerings on it. The LORD smelled the pleasing aroma and said in his heart: "Never again will I curse the ground because of man, even though every inclination of his heart is evil from childhood. And never again will I destroy all living creatures, as I have done."
Notice that it is not because of but in spite of the sinfulness of man.
Honestly, Black Wolf, if this is the best foundation for atheism you can find, that is just plain funny. :):lol:;)
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Oh, and can we please have this locked before some idiots start having an evolution vs. "creationism" war again.
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I have some good new arguments for that if necessary, and the last one on this topic came out with a favorable result. :D
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Originally posted by Sesquipedalian
Honestly, Black Wolf, if this is the best foundation for atheism you can find, that is just plain funny. :):lol:;)
Hardly - this is just something I found which points out the frequent absurdities, contradictions and scientific cockups in the bible. My foundation for Atheism is the mere existence of these things, as well as the existence much more likely set of events (science). It also hinges on the fact that there is absolutely nothing that differs christianity from any other religion, and there is no way that one can be seen as more vald than any other, as there is no proof for any religion. Unfortunately, there're at least two religions that say "You're going to hell if you don't believe in me! *****!" So I've simplified things by saying there is no god, and I'm willing to take my (very good) chances.
That, and Catholic school :ick:.
And no, I'd ask that you not lock this. Instead, lets avoid debate (by ignoring the fanatics) and post the funniest quotes we can find from the site. I'm sure there'd be some fun in that.
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Well, the opposing party is also taking their chances, since who knows, perhaps hell is a fun place. :D :yes:
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Oh, nobody's taking any chances :D We're all going to hell!
Ecclesiastes 3:20 All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.
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Originally posted by Sesquipedalian
1) Actually, there were seven pairs of each clean animal, not just one pair (Gen 7:1).
Sorry Cobber, I think that Gen 6:19 applies here :D
Gen.6:19
"Of every living thing of all flesh, two of every sort shalt thou bring into the ark."
And since it came first, it's got precedence I'd say.
I love this site :D
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Originally posted by CP5670
Well, the opposing party is also taking their chances, since who knows, perhaps hell is a fun place. :D :yes:
ever seen this twilight zone episode with the devil? he wears a Tshirt with "Hell is a summer convention" written on it :D
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Originally posted by CP5670
Well, the opposing party is also taking their chances, since who knows, perhaps hell is a fun place. :D :yes:
been there, done that... Its boring down there. You can get a nice tan there though ;)
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I dunno...from what I have heard of religion, hell seems like it would be a nice place, especially if you are evil...which I beleve you would have to be to get there in the first place...because, wouldn't the devil want to take care of his own?
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Not from Christianity's point of view. Satan hates everyone, uses them for his evil bidding, but I doubt that he'd feel any kind of kinship.
If I were him and I were him, I'd have fun torturing and making all the bad asses cry for their mommy after I used them and they died doing my evil bidding.
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Well I still hold all the rights on hell, cause as I said, it gets boring. especially after several millenia.
So I decided to rent it out to Microsoft. I can kick 'm out as I please, but their evil schemes amuse me.
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Actually, Blizzard owns hell (http://www.penny-arcade.com/images/2001/20010711l.gif)
:D
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Despite being an athiest, I am fascinated by religion. It fascinates me that otherwise intellignet people can succumb to it.
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Originally posted by Petrarch of the VBB
Despite being an athiest, I am fascinated by religion. It fascinates me that otherwise intellignet people can succumb to it.
Same :nod:
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Groan. :sigh:
This site gives the distinct impression that the author is throwing a tantrum. "See! SEE! The Bible is wrong! There's this, this, and this that proves it!!!" Childish. If you want an intellectual debate, let's HAVE an intellectual debate. Not this immaturity.
The Bible is not a mathematical proof. It's a work of literature. God-inspired, yes. But it's presented with all the usual literary devices such as metaphors, hyperbole, and analogies.
Take a look at the false prophecies section, for example. Point by point refutation/dismissal of the first part of the list...
1. Adam's death could be spiritual, meaning he was cut off from God the instant he ate the fruit, or it could be referring to his physical death in the 1000-year "day" mentioned in one of Peter's epistles.
2. Did Cain stay in the city? Did he wander around before and after building the city? Insufficient evidence, especially considering the literary style of Genesis.
3. While the "deed" to the promised land belongs to Israel from God's perspective, Israel still has responsibility to secure it. The part of the land that Israel doesn't control is occupied (not owned) by trespassers.
4. 400 years is an approximation.
5. Incorrect reference point. Levi was the first generation to live in Egypt. This makes Moses the fourth.
6. Metaphor/hyperbole. Who can count the stars? Who can count the number of Jews that have lived on the Earth since Abraham? At the time God spoke this to Abraham, Abraham wasn't even able to have children.
7. Israel is a title. I assume that the Bible uses Israel to emphasize that Jacob did something spiritually significant, and Jacob to chronicle everyday stuff.
8. Context. In the previous verse, God promises to make Jacob into a great nation and bring him out again. This promise was passed down until Jacob's entire seed was eventually brought out of Egypt.
9. Not familiar enough with this one - someone else answer it.
10. God gives Israel the authority to cast them out, and he will go before them to cast them out if they have faith to go into battle. But as the Bible records, the Israelites were often too lazy to carry out their objectives to the fullest.
11. Perhaps God wrote through Moses. Or perhaps he was emphasizing the authority of what was to be written on the tablets. The President doesn't physically "write" his speeches, although he writes them vicariously.
12. This wasn't God's fault. It was contingent on Israel's obedience.
13. There's a difference between "couldn't" and "wouldn't". Again, Israel was either lazy or unmotivated or didn't have the faith to completely drive everyone out.
14. Israel hardly ever followed God's laws to the fullest.
15. This is to weed out the false prophets and preserve the integrity of Israel's spiritual leadership.
16. From God's perspective, why shouldn't they be?
17. Or perhaps reworded, or perhaps translated differently. Is every Bible translation is a "misquotation" since it doesn't use the original language?
18. Again, this was contingent on Israel's faith and obedience.
19. Same as above.
20. Same as above.
21. You don't have to live in something to possess it. Or this verse may refer to Ai the kingdom, not Ai the city.
22. Same as above.
23. Same as above.
24. Same as above.
25. Etc. This guy sounds like a broken record.
26. Etc.
27. Etc.
28. Etc.
29. This refers to the spiritual kingdom. Jesus came from Solomon's line, and Jesus is the fulfillment of this prophecy.
30. "In peace" does not mean peaceful. Josiah went to heaven, while many around him did not.
31. This was contingent on Zedekiah's and Israel's continued obedience. But they disobeyed God several verses later, and so he turned them over to the enemy.
32. This is a literary device, using hyperbole for its effect. This literary construction is found often in the Bible.
33. Perhaps reworded.
34. Perhaps reworded.
Etc., etc., etc. This is highly annoying - it's like swatting at mosquitos. Most Christians will be glad to answer honest inquiry, but sites like this are just examples of people refusing any explanation that doesn't conform to their prejudices.
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Why does everyone accept the bible as the unfalable, 100% truth?
I'm not an aiethist (sp?), but I take the bible with a grain of salt. After all, after about 400,000 years, there are bound to be mistakes, caused by people writing it down in different ways. Hell, someone could've boo-booed on the translation, and changed the original text a lot. It's not as if God himself wrote it.
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Note my lack of commenting here. It's for a reason.
Y'all are lame.
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If you don't believe in God fine, but don't go around trying to make all of us NOT believe in God with this ****.
I mean that's as bad as Mormon's converting people. Your faith is YOURS. If someone wants to explore it, they'll ask.
SO in other words... Atheists STFU about YOUR faith as I don't go around making posts like this trying to convert you to Catholicism.
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Originally posted by Unknown Target
Why does everyone accept the bible as the unfalable, 100% truth?
I'm not an aiethist (sp?), but I take the bible with a grain of salt. After all, after about 400,000 years, there are bound to be mistakes, caused by people writing it down in different ways. Hell, someone could've boo-booed on the translation, and changed the original text a lot. It's not as if God himself wrote it.
Well, as a matter of fact, there is a whole field of scholastic work called textual criticism that deals with exactly this sort of stuff. Basically, textual critics compare and analyse the many different manuscripts in order to determine what the original reading was. And with some five and a half thousand different manuscripts for the New Testament and I forget how many for the Old Testament, there is such a vast pool of resources (as compared to, say, the two or three manuscripts that we have for Plato's Republic) to work with that these guys can be pretty darn sure that they know what the original said.
The texts actually are for the most part very uniform. You have to rememebr that the scribes who copied the texts dedicated their whole lives to this task, with a system of double-checks and cross-checks by other scribes to ensure that errors were not made. Of course, some still managed to slip through in the various manuscripts, but they are usually quite minor, and when they are not they are usually so obvious that it is patently clear what the original was. A typical error is that found in 1 Peter 2:25, where some texts would read when translated "For you were wandering like sheep" and others "For you were like wandering sheep." The difference in Greek is between this one word ending in -a or ending in -oi. The critics are pretty sure that -oi is right, but even still, look at the translations of the alternatives and you'll see that it doesn't make much difference anyway!
So in all, thanks to these textual critics we can be quite sure that the final "critical text" they have put together by comparing all the many ancient texts actually is 99.95% what the original authors actually wrote. :)
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God created Man in his own image. To create Woman he dressed in drag and again created beings in his own image.
:D
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the problem is that many of the older scripts were not writen down for quite a long time, and many of them were changed during the babalonian captivity,
these older scripts are the ones that tipicaly have things like "stone the ***** who made a shirt out of cotten and wool!"
so...
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*cough, politically correct bible, cough, cough*
Yes, 'tis true, somebody put out a Politically Correct Bible, with women, blacks, etc.
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To put it simply:
The Bible is a great book. It tells a nice story and hammers some morales into the reader's head in the process. Kinda like an Easops Fable but with more oomph.
The bible is a ****ing ****ty book. Corrupted over the years to such an extent that it is completely different from the original. With each new copy, everything is reinterpreted to suit the beliefs of a particular religion, then the bible is re-written to "help peopl understand it better" and to make sure it keeps people believing what the priests and popes and wizards want them to believe.
Presuming the Bible is 'real':
God has layed down the law of man and heaven. And as such, we cannot simply ignore the parts we do not wish to still be true. If the Bible says homosexuality is wrong, then it is wrong. regardless of how politically incorrect or inconvenient that may be. Until the Earth stands still and a divine light from the heavens tells us otherwise the Bible is the truth. No matter how socially acceptable it is to be gay, no matter the length of time since the bible was written, we cannot dismiss unpopular facts simply on the basis that society now so readily accepts sin...........
I am right. The rest of you are wrong. STFU.
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touchy...
Anyhow, God is what you believe he (she, for all you "empowered women"). I know that's been said a billion times, so much so that everyone thinks it's bull****, but it's really true, at least I think so.
If you believe in some obscure religion with about 20 Gods, he will appear to you as 20 different Gods...
If you are Christian, you might meet Jesus when you go to Heaven (I really doubt there is a Hell, if he loves us all as his children, and has planned everything, why would there be a hell?).
If you're a Jew, hell, you'll see the same thing as a Christian, just without Jesus.
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Ugh....