Hard Light Productions Forums
General FreeSpace => FreeSpace Discussion => Topic started by: Woolie Wool on March 10, 2003, 03:37:05 pm
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Ever loaded up one of those custom missions where the objectives read something like:
Protect Helpless Ship 1
Protect Helpless Ship 2
Destroy Capricorn (3)
Destroy Cancer (4)
Destroy Pisces (2)
Destroy Casseopeia (8)
Destroy Wing XXX (65535)
Destroy SD Ravana 394
Destroy SJ Santhanas
Etc.
Okay, I'm exaggerating it a bit, but it seems half the custom escort missions available have you desperately battling against hordes of fighters and bombers attacking your puny convoy from all sides. Jesus, do any of these people actually playtest/beta test their levels? Is there some kind of Pac-Man-esque pattern I'm supposed to follow to beat the mission? Playing an escort mission is no fun when there's 20 Nahema bombers with Helios at every turn. Speaking of Helios, STOP SUPPLYING 5000 HELIOS IN EVERY STRIKE MISSION! With five wings of Boanerges Helios-whores with fighter support and support-ship support, a Lucifer or Santhanas could be gon before you know it. After all, an Orion can go down after being hit with, what, 5 Helios? Never mind that the putz of a level designer would probably have thrown in a Hades/Colossus or four to make your job (a lot) easier.
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:blah:
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Maybe I'm just having bad level-seeking luck and keep downloading all the really crappy missions.
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I'm assuming you've set the difficulty down to Very Easy?
I hate escort missions. I usually just set the unvulnerable cheat code, and ~k kill everything hostile that comes in.:D
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Originally posted by Hades
I'm assuming you've set the difficulty down to Very Easy?
I hate escort missions. I usually just set the unvulnerable cheat code, and ~k kill everything hostile that comes in.:D
Sometimes I have to because there's 50000 Shivan Mega Laser (or, if it's an NTF mission, UD-8 Kayser) and SAAA (AAAf in NTF missions) shots heading at me every milisecond in these crazy newbie maps. Even the good escort missions are annoying. I want to kill the enemy without worrying about some GVFr Ma'at with its measly three turrets or the GTD Orion that is disabled for 15 minutes. Bombing missions are not all that fun either because the level author either provides 10 Colossi that kill the enemy ships before you can launch your first bomb (what's the fun in that, besides looking at all the pretty beams?) or provides little or no support or protection from the enemy cap ships' turrets (did it ever occur to them that bombers are not very fast or agile?).
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Speaking of being chewed up by a turret, I played a fairly good user-created campaign once, and I was piloting a GTF Ares and dodging the fire that a Hades and Ravana were exchanging when I noticed the effects of Harpoons on a beam turret that I decided to take a crack at. I destroyed the Ravana's turret with three or four Harpoons (from 100% strength). Then I tried shooting another turret with my Kaysers. It went boom in a few seconds. Then I went after another, blazing away. Just when I had nearly destroyed the turret, it nailed me in the face with an LRed! Truly embarassing.:mad:
Also, during the "Slaying Ravana" mission, I got a lock on a Basilisk with a Cyclops and the bomb hit right in the middle of the rear end of the fighter! Heh heh heh!
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Don't get mad! Get even! Bust out a reasonably enjoyable escort mission where there aren't tons of enemy fighers and a few big ships. It's not impossible, but I thnk you'll find it quite challenging.
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Originally posted by Hades
:blah:
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are you trying to say to everyone to make escort missions differently, or you just don't like them, or you can't beat them, or all of the above?
Escort missions are a type of their own and have always been like that. You escort people through missions. It wouldn't be much of a mission to play if you just flew in a straight path for 7 minutes, although it would be more politically correct in that not all ambushes have to happen while you are flying.
but then again, your flying as Alpha 1 :p
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I'm sure there are plenty of escort missions where nothing at all happens. They just weren't included because... who would want to play that?
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One mission i made is an escort mission where u must escort a medical frigate to a system, however there is a blockade u must first destroy. The blockade is a hecate and a deimos. The deimos is ordered to charge the medical firgate and destroy it, so ur first objective is to get its beams, then when it knows it cant do any more harm it attempts to escape to the blockaded node, behind the hecate. Obviously it must be disabled and destroyed before it escapes. however it deimos is really low, then the hecate will leave because its backup is gone, once again disabling that ship is necessary. the hecate has the exact number of fighters/bombers its supposed to carry, but once its done no more fighters.
Then in a twist of fate a ship from your system attempts to defect however before its last jump out its weapons systems were destroyed. It tries to escape and u must stop it, to re=capture it for the GTVA.
Mission is Vega's War and its a multiplayer mission. Toughest mission i ever built, balancing it was very hard and to this day i think its a tad too hard. However it is possible as it has been done many times by many players.
So escort missions are possible, and its also possible to make them hard but not impossible, however it took almost a month and a half to finish that mission. Takes alot of dedication and planning.
Also wanted to point out that the creator of a mission shldnt beta test his own missions ever. U get tunnel vision and miss the tiniest details at times and it takes a second pair of eyes to correct it. Not only that but creators know intimate details of the mission, so whats obvious to them may not be obvious to someone who never seen this mission or tried it for the second time. I always suggest outside beta testing in as many numbers as possible to limit the amount of corrections u need to make.
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Maybe I'm just having bad level-seeking luck and keep downloading all the really crappy missions.
I think that is exactly what is happening. :D
I completely agree with the Helios thing though. This bomb is not used at all except in the most important situations, and even then in very limited quantities; look at its tech description.
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Originally posted by Lonestar
Also wanted to point out that the creator of a mission shldnt beta test his own missions ever.
Just being pedantic but of course a designer should Beta-test his missions.
He just shouldn`t be the ONLY person to beta test. I`ve played far too many beta missions that are far closer to alpha because the designer hasn`t played it enough.
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the reason I like the NTF and pre-FS2 era missions (as you might have notice from LM series) - no uber powerful weapons.
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Originally posted by Woolie Wool
Ever loaded up one of those custom missions where the objectives read something like:
Protect Helpless Ship 1
Protect Helpless Ship 2
Destroy Capricorn (3)
Destroy Cancer (4)
Destroy Pisces (2)
Destroy Casseopeia (8)
Destroy Wing XXX (65535)
Destroy SD Ravana 394
Destroy SJ Santhanas
Etc.
Pfft... just ONE Sathanas?
I'd prefer a good mission where you have to protect a disabled drone with 1% hull against 10 Sathanases (Sathani?) using only a shieldless Apollo with ML-16's.
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Oh alright Cannikin, you can be in my army...
:D
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Originally posted by Cannikin
Pfft... just ONE Sathanas?
I'd prefer a good mission where you have to protect a disabled drone with 1% hull against 10 Sathanases (Sathani?) using only a shieldless Apollo with ML-16's.
Pfffffff... I just get in a space suit and and get my axe. Then shoot myself out an airlock!
*CHOPCHOPCHOPCHOP*
No more beam cannon for you mister Sathanas 1!
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:wtf:
Women scare me
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Originally posted by diamondgeezer
Women scare me
Poor Daimondgeezer...
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Oh, I didn't mean they aren't nice to look at. They're just... strange and scary :p
*hides from axe*
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Originally posted by Lonestar
u ... u ... ur ... u ... U ... u
Here, keep these in a box by your keyboard--
you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you
you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you
you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you
you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you
you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you
There, that should last a while.
Ummmm... on topic, I think Woowoo was mostly complaining about missions that take the escort concept and turn it from fighting into puzzle-solving. Ones where you have to play the mission multiple times to figure out what order to go after the wings. To me, "Surrender, Belisaurius!" is the way a non-frustrating escort mission should play. All your escorts fairly close together, and a nice linear flow of attack wings.
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Originally posted by karajorma
Just being pedantic but of course a designer should Beta-test his missions.
He just shouldn`t be the ONLY person to beta test. I`ve played far too many beta missions that are far closer to alpha because the designer hasn`t played it enough.
Yeah they shld, but they will not get a good gauge on the difficulty for players who never seen the mission, nor will they see some obvious mistakes. Of course the designer needs to test his own missions to ensure it works like he planned, but otherwise he shld steer clear. Ive made more mistakes testing my own mission, then sending it to someone else for testing did.
For some reason (and its prolly just me) i miss the most obvious mistakes, as i had been working on it for so long it just escaped me. Kinda weird, but yeah as the dude says, Test your own, but get others to test for you to complete the beta stages.
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I knew what you meant Lonestar it's just that I`ve beta tested a few missions that it appears the designer hasn`t even played let alone tested. :D
Hell I've played some released missions like that :)
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Originally posted by karajorma
I knew what you meant Lonestar it's just that I`ve beta tested a few missions that it appears the designer hasn`t even played let alone tested. :D
Hell I've played some released missions like that :)
When running Fredzone i got that daily. People would submit missions and we would spend literally months beta testing and repairing them with the author so they would be good for multiplayer play and valid for PXO.
I found it better to have the designer just send me the changes and ill test them, then i wld tell them what they need to fix (in fred terms), have them fix it and resend to me for beta testing again.
At times some said there mission was tested, by the creator extensiviely. However when FZ got it, it seemed as tho it wasnt tested at all. Through no fault of the designer, as i can tell it was something easily overlooked when concetrating on the big picture.
So we adopted a beta testing team, who knew fred inside and out, so this way when problems were reported a solution was immediately available. Turned out better then having the designer test it.
I know what you mean about supposed finished missions, sometimes it boggled me as to what people considered "finished", and also another thing that bugs me is the insane amount of shivans people think exist, furthermore existed during the FS2 wars in specific areas.
Who has ever actually even heard in a tech briefing about 50,000 shivan fighters let alone seen them firsthand in a cargo escort mission? I could go on about how the cargo, if it was that important shld be protected by a Collossus but ill stop there...
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Originally posted by Tiara
Pfffffff... I just get in a space suit and and get my axe. Then shoot myself out an airlock!
*CHOPCHOPCHOPCHOP*
No more beam cannon for you mister Sathanas 1!
My excact sentences, but instead of Axe I would have a Katana ;7
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Originally posted by Miburo
My excact sentences, but instead of Axe I would have a Katana ;7
Hmmm... I also could slip into my assasins suit and slit the Sathanas beam cannon conduits :p
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Hmmm...
It took about 10 seconds of constant fire with Kaysers to destroy one of a a Ravana's beam cannons so it seems that a blade would have a hard time destroying the beam cannons of a Santhanas. Also, what if a Shivan outside of a ship attacked you? In case you haven't played very much FS, a Shivan's claw can crush most metals. Human flesh would be no problem.
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the shivans did attack you outside the ships... its in the Silent Threat movies, the freespace1 boarding party movie, and the FS1 credits...
BTW... Akhatohn SDG can do more turret damage than kaysers...
BTW2... this is a FreeSpace forum, most if not all people here have played FreeSpace
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Originally posted by Woolie Wool
Hmmm...
It took about 10 seconds of constant fire with Kaysers to destroy one of a a Ravana's beam cannons so it seems that a blade would have a hard time destroying the beam cannons of a Santhanas. Also, what if a Shivan outside of a ship attacked you? In case you haven't played very much FS, a Shivan's claw can crush most metals. Human flesh would be no problem.
We were just joking :p And I have played FS (FS1, FS:ST AND FS2)
Still I could place a nuke/GTVA mini meson ala B5 Thirdspace on the Artifact on the Sath and watch it go BOOOOOOOOOOM!
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ok W.W., make what you think the perfect escort mission is, and email it to me at [email protected] and i'll test it
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I am making something like an escort mission, where you have to protect a Demon destroyer (you are a pilot for a new faction called the Terran-Shivan Alliance), but most of the ships attack YOU. The threats posed to the Demon are, in order of appearance in the mission, a Sobek (easily destroyed by the Demon), a wing of Osiris bombers, a wing of Ursas, two damaged Aten cruisers with BFRed cannons, and a wing of Boanerges or Boanergeses or whatever the plural should be spelled. Otherwise, the opposition is supposed to mop up you and your fellow pilots so they can send in more cruisers, bombers, and corvettes later.
One difference from many FS2 missions is that you play as Beta 1. You relieve Alpha wing, whose three ships are down to 5% hull integrity and their shield generators destroyed. You have to keep them alive for a few seconds until they can warp out.
Here are the objectives:
Protect TSD Doomgiver (primary objective)
Eliminate wing of xenocidic Shivans who are attacking Alpha wing
Protect Alpha wing until they warp out (primary objective)
Destroy all hostile ships that warp in (I mentioned the first wing of GTVA ships (Cancer) in the briefing by accident)
Then return to base
I don't know how to make objectives work right, so I'll send my mission to you. I placed two objectives in: Protect the Demon destroyer (which was named the SD Monster at first but I changed the name to TSD Doomgiver but didn't change the objective), and destroy Cancer wing. However, I can't make the objectives work right and prevent destroy-hostiles objectives from appearing in the briefing. Can anyone help?
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Originally posted by Woolie Wool
I don't know how to make objectives work right, so I'll send my mission to you. I placed two objectives in: Protect the Demon destroyer (which was named the SD Monster at first but I changed the name to TSD Doomgiver but didn't change the objective), and destroy Cancer wing. However, I can't make the objectives work right and prevent destroy-hostiles objectives from appearing in the briefing. Can anyone help?
Make the objective invalid from the ojectives editor. When the hostiles appear use the relevent SEXP (objective-vaild or somesuch) to turn the objective back on again.
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I was reading a tutorial about SEXPs when I read your post and just learned how to make objectives work.
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Originally posted by Woolie Wool
I was reading a tutorial about SEXPs when I read your post and just learned how to make objectives work.
Hence the saying "DO THE ****ING WALKTHROUGH"[/b]
:)
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mkay.
Dude if your going to make a Story i highly suggest finding some Universe timelines (http://ugcworld.com/fredzone) and find other information to make it make sense in the FS2 universe, unless of course u just want to screw around....
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My, what a ridiculous mission that would be! Silly Newbies. :D
Doomgiver, eh? I think we might have an FPS fan here... just a hunch...