Hard Light Productions Forums
General FreeSpace => FreeSpace Discussion => Topic started by: Star Dragon on March 14, 2003, 11:01:44 am
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I was recently suggested that I ask for hosting for a ST area but feel that my lack of skillz and eye candy .pofs are not good enough to take up space by themselves. So I ask you the community is there is a place for ST here and what kind of support would it generate. Please take the time to express your opinion. Thanks...
(I set a limit of 7 days, that should be enough time to get an idea)
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I think it'd be sorta cool, but it'd be hard to convey the star trek, bridge and command along with weapons such as phasers. You'd need lock on beam primaries and so on, which could be down with the source code.
Still it'd be hard to turn the Enterprise E into freespace as Freespace is like a 1st person flight sim. It'd still be pretty cool, and would kick ass to fly around in a Defiant or Delta flyer or something of the like.
If you think you can pull it off, then go for it. (just try not to bite off more than you can chew)
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I think one problem is that the Star Trek Capships (i.e almost every vessel you see in the show) are not slow ponderous craft like in FS2. I don`t know how well the game could deal with fast moving caps. That said it could be fun to play. So if you can get the support go for it.
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Phasers are just fancy beams as far as a I know, and torpedoes do home, so I don't see a problem with speed. I have a pair of Shivan craft, fighter (Naga) and bomber (Yali), using beams and they work just fine. Granted, they don't always nail their mark, but they do often enough. With capital ships, you'd have less fancy maneuvering (lets hope) than what you'd see with an interceptor, and thats pretty much the only thing that the beams had any real trouble hitting.
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Are there any actual fighters in ST?
You could TRY and make FS a capship sim, but it's not really made for it.
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Closest cannical thing ST has to fighters is Shuttlecraft, although their 'capships' are as agile as fighters.
And the torpedos in ST do home, as long as they lock on or whatever. I've seen them home and not home, it usually depends on the episode and If Voyager is anywhere near it.
By beams, I meant player usuable beams that could lock on like a missle. I know we have player beams, but can they lock on?
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I still am working on the "all-mod" regardless but was suggested to present it (by someone else not the hosting person) as a TC. It was my intention to combines everything anyway but yeah I see your point. Though ST IS cap ship dominant there are also many smaller craft the can also have there place. a few examples (just to point them out)
4 or 5 shuttle types, 1 official fed figher I know of (the valkyrie) LOL which debuted during the marquis uprising (STTNG) and was heavily used during the dominion war (DS9).
Lending out realisim, due to my experience with Klingon Academy (which got rid of the crew that you interacted with SFA, useless fodder if you ask me [The captain does all the REAL work anyway ;)]) All the ships you commanded acted as fighters (though the dreadnaughts were hell to dogfight with against smaller ships!
With that in mind I figured giving the player control eventually up to defiant class definately and maybe higher isn't out of the question... But you start in a Runabout or the Valkyrie at first.
In comparison the Bab5 people may be planning on a player white star (Comperable to the Defiant I think in terms of maneuverability and bridge crew element) since the have a load-out screen and shield icon for it like a player ship. So a player "capship" is NOT unprecedented. How far I plan to take it will be determined by the feel of it as the mod progresses. Right now I am working on a handful of models before I run into a dead end cause of no modling skillz/programs so the number so far is around 10-15 ships choosable. I have like 40-50 more available that need to be Grouped, saved in the right orientation and then .pof'ed as usual but I think that's enough for a basic mod. Also I have things planned like an asteroid base. Installations. Transports, Civillian ships, bouys, ect... The occasional space monster would be cool too (Can you picture a scene that has EVERY Enterprise in one mission? 1701 (dixie cup painted controls), 1701-NX, A,B,C,D,E,and F... Whoops! forgot about the other one.. But let's keep that a surprise for now ;7 ... (I have all of them)
This all came about due to my desire to combat ST forces and now this possibility has occured. Aside from a crossover story I had no idea what would be done for a TC but that would be up to the Fredders (if any are interested). Thanks to SFCIII there are Federation carriers (as well as for all the other major races). Unknown forces are stirring up trouble in the quadrant and Alpha1 gets assigned to the USS Roosevelt (A Fed Carrier). From there it's anyone's guess but in the ST universe the pilots face no so different obstacles than in other genres so why not be a pilot? Is FS2 dominated by Colossusi and Orions? No there are fighters (though more veriaties and loadouts) but still same principles...
PS: I once had a fighter in game accidently blown up to colossus size. man that suck was hard to hit! It kept flying all around! Not that most of teh ships will get above 40 but there WILL be exceptions! If you've seen the show you know which ones I mean...
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Originally posted by Stryke 9
Are there any actual fighters in ST?
You could TRY and make FS a capship sim, but it's not really made for it.
(http://steve.pugh.net/fleet/images/academy1.gif)
(http://steve.pugh.net/fleet/images/academy1.gif)
(http://www.angelfire.com/rpg/ussargo/images/danubeani.gif)
(http://www.lcarscom.net/fsd/shuttlecraft/images/flyer.jpg)
(http://www.lcarscom.net/fsd/shuttlecraft/images/type9.jpg)
(http://www.lcarscom.net/fsd/shuttlecraft/images/type11.jpg)
(http://www.lcarscom.net/fsd/shuttlecraft/images/yacht.jpg)
I know that most are shuttles, but if modelled can be easily deployed as fighters. And they can outmanouver any FS fighter... They have beams (phasers), some torpedos, warp, impulse engines :p
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Also, you can just enhance capship speeds in the tbl files right?
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I`m not sure if you`re aware of this SD but a few months back someone posted models for 3 or 4 Star Trek fighters. I did a search but I can`t find them cause I can`t remember the name of the person who did it.
The ships were pretty good looking and IIRC they were pof'd already.
Maybe someone can provide a link.
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A good thing with ST is that you "fighter" numbers are gonna fit a lot better, you don't have to worry about having 12 fighters each mission because most ships only carry what, 6 shuttles?
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Starfleet has about 20-30 different kind of carriers so... :p
http://www.shipschematics.net/cgi-bin/startrek/federation.cgi?Carrier
Also, here, a list of all fighters/scpouts in the UFP/starfleet.
http://www.shipschematics.net/cgi-bin/startrek/federation.cgi?Scout
About 30-35 of them :D
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I remember playing a Gorn Carrier once and when I ordered the fighters to attack it launched over 30 craft... Now not all ships are gonna have fighters or shuttles, but the potential is there. Look how much combat Tom Paris had in teh Delta Flyer on voyager? Also the Runabouts are no slouches either! Plus there is one tactical advantage that FS2 can't deal with. Transporters!!! Even the fighters have emergency transpers that can get a pilot out safely if activated in time (and they have an unshielded place to go, otherwise they are SOL!)...
That means if they double team, half the force can bail to the other ships while firing full burst incomming and transport out and ram the ones filled with torps or explosives and then either continue attacking or go home, and getmore shuttles (recrew)... LOL! That's fricken outrageous, BUT possible! Think of the possibilities...
"This is the Colossus, we got enemy invaders on all decks. The're comming outta thin air!"... Ha ha..
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if they can't have shields up to transport, then the lucifer is the ultamate weapon...
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Originally posted by Analazon
if they can't have shields up to transport, then the lucifer is the ultamate weapon...
?
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He means that the boarding tactic won't work... at least until they chase it into hyperspace/warp. Cool thing is ST can still have shields on during wap and Shivans CAN'T!!! Muhahahaha!
(At least the we KNOW of)...
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Originally posted by Star Dragon
He means that the boarding tactic won't work... at least until they chase it into hyperspace/warp. Cool thing is ST can still have shields on during wap and Shivans CAN'T!!! Muhahahaha!
(At least the we KNOW of)...
well, there is kind of the problem with that SC ships can't go into subspace, they have their ghey little "warp" thingy
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ST ships don't travel in subspace, they skim the boundaries of realspace and subspace, traveling along the planes of subspace but existing in realspace.
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Closest cannical thing ST has to fighters is Shuttlecraft [/b]
DS9 showed some Federation fighter craft. Off hand I know you see them in 'Sacrifice of Angels'. The Maque (however its spelt) also had fighter type craft.
Edit: The Bajorian resistance also had fighter craft, as seen in 'The Siege' (I think) and perhaps seen in the first Season 7 episode.
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Originally posted by LtNarol
ST ships don't travel in subspace, they skim the boundaries of realspace and subspace, traveling along the planes of subspace but existing in realspace.
But in the ST-universe they have the technology to distort subspace. :drevil:
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He he yeah 11-6 looking positive so far...
As for debating yes or no if made froum WILL have thread like this [Debate: Trek Vs FS2] :nod:
I played ST Armade when it forst came out (beat it in 3 days, returned for money back, I wasn't satisfied spending my $45.00 and feeling unfulfilled) So when ArmadaII came out I passed, till yesterday. Picked it up last night for $10.00!! Wohoo! On mission 3 so far not cheating and man it's rough I like it!!!
I digress, main reason for playing it is to get more models to convered and ideas..
There is Another fighter I forgot about from armadaI and II called the Vanture class. It is a cooler looking craft then the valkyrie. (the valkyrie is also the Maquis fighter). teh other maquis ship is a very small craft that is a fighter/cruiser (seen in ep I of Voyager) the craft that Chokotay commanded... I have that model but too high poly.. I got ahold of and a handful more craft (including Classic TOS craft (man that battle bucked looks so lame today BUT in it's day it would make anyone run for cover!!!!)
Amazing what they did with spraypaint and dixie cups huh..
Excuse me I have to go, time for the "Sulu Dance".. Hahaha
(A howard Stern parody) - "You can dance like Sulu" (from safety dance)...
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Its "Venture" class, not "Vanture" :p
If you want a good ST game, buy ST: Bridge Commander. I even know some anti-ST people who like it :D Armada sux big time compared to Bridge Commander. And I mean BIG TIME.
Instead of your average, everyday strategy theme, you actually get to command your own starships.
There are numerous mods out for new ships, sounds, weapons, etc.
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i tried BC, but i didn't like it, dunno why. FS2 is so much better compared to BC. the only ST games i actually liked, where starfleet academy and klingon academy. the rest wasn't much IMO
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Originally posted by karajorma
I`m not sure if you`re aware of this SD but a few months back someone posted models for 3 or 4 Star Trek fighters. I did a search but I can`t find them cause I can`t remember the name of the person who did it.
The ships were pretty good looking and IIRC they were pof'd already.
Maybe someone can provide a link.
It was Fnordbear.;)
I've got both of the ones he put up for download (a Klingon and a Romulan), and he said he was working on a few others, including a Fed one.
Matter of fact, I made a reskin of the Romulan craft, to turn it into a Shivan craft....
http://www.angelfire.com/space2/raptorsnest/rf-sb.html
I also have Bridge Commander, Excellent game, I recomend it to all!. Just make sure you have a powerful PC. It pushs my 1.1GHz with 32 bit card :eek:
As for too fast capships, remenber the Sovereign Class (Enterprise E ;)) was only 685m x 88m x 251m. Less than a Deimos in length.
Oh,oh, are you doing older craft as well as newer craft? I'd love to fly around a Miranda Class (Reliant)
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Originally posted by kasperl
i tried BC, but i didn't like it, dunno why. FS2 is so much better compared to BC. the only ST games i actually liked, where starfleet academy and klingon academy. the rest wasn't much IMO
Klingon Acadamy:
"Captain! We cannot fight honorably if we cannot find the correct key to fire!"
You had about 500 different functions to memorize. :ick
ST: Acadamy:
"Eh... sir? What am I doing here?"
Its just as it says, an acadamy game. You learn to fly a ship... so dull and sooooo easy.
ST: bridge Commander:
"Sir, our super realistic looking Sovereign model is being pounded by 10 Kessok vessels. I suggest a tactical retreat and come back to squish them with the help of the USS Enterprise!"
BC actually has A STORY. Great graphics (Besides the characters), good gameplay nice mod database :D (I just wuv the Intrepid bridge), actual fuctioning and populated Multiplayer. And last but not least, its a CHALLENGE to complete.
But in the end it all comes down to taste... However scary that may be.
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i had a discussion a few days back on a dutch ST forum, actually, the whole thign started on Freelancer, then someone said FS2 whas lot's better, then someone started to bash FS2, then we replied with some facts, then the FS2 basher started to promote BC, wich resulted in a comparison between FS2 and BC. eventually almost all present agreed that FS2 was lot's better. actually, klingon acadamy was rather easy to play IMHO. if you used the VOS (verbal order system, kinda like the FS2 comm system, but then to controll the entire ship). it get's really easy. if you play it enough you'll automaticcly remember the right combinations, just like you just press c-3-8 blindly, yuo'd press something like 2-3-8-1 to jump out of a system. it's one of the more realistic ways to command a large ship, IMHO.
know, this distracted me from my French homework. i'll continue tommorow.
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:wtf:
You can't compare FS and ST:BC. Two different genres, two different themes, two different games.
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It's just that they can't maych up exactly (keeping that inmind).
I LOVED KA, it was the BEST ST game I ever played!!! SCF I sucked, Dominion wars similiar (I hate non-3d combat). Like If I want to sneak up on someone from directly above and bash thier brains in I can't do it in a mostly 2d enviroment. In KA I can do it and while cloaked to boot! Wohoo!!!
The only problem wasback then I played KA and FS2 equally and got screwed up on the oder comms cause I always used FS2 memorizartion (can't have 2 masters I guess) he he oh well.
At least THIS time if I get the game off an auction (hopefully soon!) I can program it to accept VERBAL orders like I did for FS2...
Now if Only I can learn Klingon I can program it to respond to that instead of english.. Qaplah!
I'm not using FS2 to replace KA, simply to have a more enjoyable Trek experience.
When I want to be the "Bridge Commander" I will play KA... When I want to get into the mix and make it personal I will do FS2. Regardless I want tit to be the best it can be no matter what format it's in...
Please excuse the typos. My internet is soo freaking slow It takes minutes to post a message and I've been working on little sleep lately between work and modding so I'd rather let it go (U know what I mean anyway!) :nod:
Oh yeah I thought that bridge commander was NOT making the most of my 1.8gig 512ddr 64mb video pc!I was very dissapointed. BUT I raided the gfx files for weapons and models Muhahahahaa. Man those crew sounds sucked! When I get KA back it will be good to hear some Klingon again! L8tr!
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Well, to each his own. I prefer the ability to command any ship from a fighter to a sovereign.
*gets in fighter and rams Kessok warship*
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I just got a message to go to FS2 sector and holy crap!
I'm sending a big thank-you letter to someone cause he released about 15 packs of ST ships (most fo them federation). I have had so much trouble getting fed ships to convert and he already has rather high poly ones pofed!!! I just took a Soulwolf out for a spin against some Vindactyls and it was awesome!!! I still need to make/get tables made for the ships but most of them just need subsystems shields, ect.. some need guns but half are armed.. And he has ds9!! Wohoo!!! My meager effeorts look sick next to these beauties! he's done 90% of the fed stuff I have so I'm dumping my files so far and using those. He only did a few romulan/klingon stuff so I have like 90% more of those files and will continue working on those instead to get those fleets up and running. I am so stoked! Even though the vote looks like it's gonna turn out in favor of ST TC, it will be a long while before I ask for hosting (maybe 4 or 5 months) cause with the main models already done (just need finishing) I can work on a story and continue dLing sound effects and voices from shows/movies... I could almost be a mod team of one thanks to that awesome modler! except that I have no clue about tables) So I would need a table expert for sure and maybe a spot modler to tweak any models that need turrents or what not.
his identity: [email protected] (from Germany)
It seems like most of the models are from Armada II BUT with remapped textures from SFCIII for the higher quality look while keeping poly count down. (That was my plan if I could learn how to apply textures, he he)...
A truly awesome set of conversions...
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I downloaded one of those packs myself last night - many of them also need to be split into subobjects I think - several had one subobject and around 850 polies... I think that's over the limit.
Also, at least some (possibly all) are unshielded.
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Also, just realized they're not lodded. While the most difficult part has been done, you'll still need a few wiiling people to come along and lod, turret, path, pof dataize and table these models. Even if you just weld vertices, and use a smaller version of the original maps, limit lods to two and debris it'll take awhile.
Hmm, just had an idea. When you lose your weapons subsystem as a fighter, your guns stop firing, but capship turrets dont. If you made all your Trek ships have gunpoints instead of turrets, and fairly strong weapons subsystems, you could simulate the Star Trek style weapons system where taking out the weapons subsystem stops the ship from firing without any sexps. The only question is can beams be fired from gunpoints on capships?
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I DL'ed all the packs and sorted out the ones to be used. (very few didn't make the cut).. I had 1 of every ship in the game and only had 2 problems...
First, some of the ships are not big enough (needing to be 2-3 times bigger depending on the model, some are dead on accurate though, like most of the stations). So many of them need to be re-sized. when I tried to do it it crash on re-pofing so I'm not sure how to proceed.
Second there is some loose geometry on 2 ships, the 8472 Mothership, and the Krenim Timeship... I've seen this before but don't know exacly what it means. If you place it in fred you can see the lines spiking off the model into infinity , if you rotate the model and let one of these planes/lines intersect your viewpoint it locks up fred/and in extreame cases crashes it. also in game if you intersect one these now not visible lines in game it crashes FS2. That's what was happening witht that whitestar I sent Star Fury. also 2 or 3 other ships I was working on converting... I thought that one ship was crashing simply because it could hold thousands of gigas's in it's hold cause when it converted but it was because of those lines comming off it... (won't mention ship, but it's from WC) ;) he he...
Now that current model stability seems fine (I am using fighter tables, and they are firing both types of photons fine as a primary weapon... (they DO occasionally miss so I've upped the velocity and they are a not locking primary, for now). The Soulwolf has 3 forward firing ports. It was cool to see 3 torpedoes (2 photons and 1 quantom) practically on top of each other almost insuring oblivion should they strike their target!!! Wohoo! I'm gonna ask G.E> if he would work on a table for the DS9 model. Apparently it has 5 banks of primaries of avarious amounts (bank 1 has 4 points) ect... If I make one port a photon then all 5 of those points associated with that bank should fire red pohtons...
As for beam weapon primaries... I will try using the targeting laser or the Aurora cannon(for now) cause it is a fighter table and I don't know how to match up capship tables with models that have no turrents but DO have gun firing points on some of them...
If I can learn how to change the color and add a duration to the targeting laser, then I can simulate a primary phaser for runabouts, shuttles, and fighters, while also temporarily using them for the cap ships until real weapons can be matched up...
Right now all targeting laser varients are as long as you hold the trigger and I don't know if an AI ship will keep firing until the ship is destroyed (which would not look/feel right as even phasers run out of energy between shots and don't stay "on" as they track a target that has entered and then eluded their firing arc)...
Still the potential is cool. The ships look better than I thought they could be (really nice textures can do wonders!). The stations are enormous! And also some of them are natural carriers! I was flying through various ships and some have big hangars (no invisible textures here blocking access!!!! You can make these fighterbays or hangars, cargo docks, whatever and have ships, objects enter and leave.. Some are big enough you can park a large cruiser in!
The two shipyards and very nice (one TMP and one looks a lot like nemisis) The last one is a deluxe namisis with 9 gun points per side, overhead light fixtures and cool tight angles that can really hug the soverign class, BUT it also has those infinate lines and causes fren lock up... If someone can fix those kind of models it would be a HUGE help!!!
[EDIT] By the way poll is over and broke down like this:
2 abosolutes (mine dosen't count) + 12 STRONG YES'S = 14
1 Ucarring , but would use it counts for +/- 0
7 no or just wants ounch & pie = 7
14 - 7 means ST TC is a worthy project and if I can find some staff members to help with conversion/revisions, tables, and all the rest . then I would like to coordinate this project and try todo justice to the genre... Though most of the files are available from FS2 sector (at least Fed ones). I would release new stuff as it gets finished, like someof the other torpedoes I've been planning, bt haven't taken the time to start though I have the image files for... Problem is I have the enthusiasm and drive/willingess to commit, but I do not have the skillz needed to actually do a whole project myself (like successful resizing, this should NOT be a problem but with these models something is different)... I also need someone who has 3ds max for A2 canverting (a plugin for A2 sod model files is availible), a mapper so we can use existing ST textures (I have almost every ST texture we need)... and of course fredders and voice people. I want to make 2 storylines. 1 JUST for ST TC. and 1 that will carry over to BEYOND REDEMPTION the "all-mod" he he. (now all I need is more robots and I'll have almost everyting I want, well if I could get a buck rogers starfighter, the yamato, arcadia, and the BSG ship of lights that would be nice too (wink wink, nudge nudge) :nod:
Till next time true believers, make mine MARVEL! (a Stan Lee saying) I can't wait for The Hulk!!!!
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Originally posted by Star Dragon
If you place it in fred you can see the lines spiking off the model into infinity , if you rotate the model and let one of these planes/lines intersect your viewpoint it locks up fred/and in extreame cases crashes it.
I think that old Gas Platform model did that... I think
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I have a Soyuz model lying around if you want it. Needs competent skinning, but I never claimed to be good at textures.
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Originally posted by Star Dragon
Second there is some loose geometry on 2 ships, the 8472 Mothership, and the Krenim Timeship... I've seen this before but don't know exacly what it means. If you place it in fred you can see the lines spiking off the model into infinity , if you rotate the model and let one of these planes/lines intersect your viewpoint it locks up fred/and in extreame cases crashes it. also in game if you intersect one these now not visible lines in game it crashes FS2. That's what was happening witht that whitestar I sent Star Fury. also 2 or 3 other ships I was working on converting... I thought that one ship was crashing simply because it could hold thousands of gigas's in it's hold cause when it converted but it was because of those lines comming off it... (won't mention ship, but it's from WC) ;) he he...
This is the phenomenon known as "shards of death" Basically the model has too many polys and FS2 can`t deal with it. Anything with over 750 polys is in danger of doing this and with over 850 it's pretty much certain it will.
Unless you can cut out some polys the ship is pretty much unusable (anything that shows the Shards of Death in FRED will almost certainly crash FS2).
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the romulan shrike (small scout ship from BOTF and A1/2) has 1165 poly's and shards fo death...
The Federation Norway has 1765 and works fine. (7 sub models)(lights/textures)...
Why does the norway work and the shrike doesn't? I have some models that average 1500 polly's
and the Ent-F (my fav) has a whopping 2216 polly's and works like a dream... (ops! haven't tried shielding i yet cause it's pointing up and needs to be 2 times bigger anyway..
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Yes, subobjects do count. If a model is split into subobjects of less than 750 polys, the game will use it fine.
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Yeah just looked at Ent-f (Soulwolf) again.. 3 subojects. though it doesn't say in modelview how many each object has just total of 2216... Hmm so all those models with lines will work if someone splits them up into 1 to 4 objects and reassembles them? Damn I shouldn;t have deleted them.. I only have a handful like that now. I figured the rest was unuseable...
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My bad. I forgot to say the limit was on sub-objects. :D
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OOhhh ST FS2 conversion. Yes.
Love to fly the scimitar class or Akira along with Sovereign class.
Plus with FS2 wonderful ability to draw large vessels should be a blast!!
I didn`t like ST:BC as
a)I didnt feel like a captain very much
b)the damn thing kept crashing my system for no reason (bah!!)
Plus can anyone tell me how the Cradies with their planet NUKED into the stone-age manage to get the resources together to become a threat once more? (bearing in mind BC is set after the DS9 series)
But a conversion? I`d play it. YES!
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My Poll is closed and served its purpose. Any future pure ST TC topics will be in a ST thread. Please delete this thread when you have the time. Thanks!