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Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Bobboau on March 22, 2003, 12:38:09 am

Title: Farscape, WTF!!!
Post by: Bobboau on March 22, 2003, 12:38:09 am
for thouse who have just seen it, nothing more needs to be said.

and I was just starting to get into it too :doubt:
Title: Farscape, WTF!!!
Post by: Turnsky on March 22, 2003, 12:41:39 am
as it is an australian production, showing of it here has been sporadic at best (Tv execs are truly insane over here must be from the interplay school of business and screwing-up)
Title: Sacre Blow
Post by: Slasher on March 22, 2003, 12:48:43 am
Heil Vivendi.  They're a wonderful lot of cancel-happy people.  Interpreting ratings and similar statistical data is not their field of expertise.
Title: Farscape, WTF!!!
Post by: Bobboau on March 22, 2003, 12:52:30 am
if that was the last episode why didn't they just cut the last five seconds off?
at least get rid of the to be continued thing,
nahrg! I never should have started watching it damnit!

wait a sec Vivendi owns SciFi?
now I do hate them
Title: Farscape, WTF!!!
Post by: Stryke 9 on March 22, 2003, 01:21:40 am
Wasn't Farscape canceled, like, a year or so ago?

Am I missing something here?
Title: Farscape, WTF!!!
Post by: Bobboau on March 22, 2003, 01:26:29 am
something like that, they canceled just as they were doing the 'last' episode, it was just now aired,
I realy wasn't that big a fan, just a casual viewer more interested in SG1 (wich had a great season finale), watching Farscape becase I had nothing better to do, I was put off by the muppetnes of many of the charicters, but you know after watching a few episodes it grew on me I was just starting to get realy interested in it and, and, that ending :mad:
Title: Farscape, WTF!!!
Post by: Stryke 9 on March 22, 2003, 01:30:30 am
By the way, what is it with the "muppet" thing all of a sudden? Half a dozen different sites and boards I go to, people seem to be using it all the time now.

Me, I can't see how it can even pretend to compete with such tried-and-true classics as "cockmonger" "****tard" and just plain old "asshole", but that might be personal taste.
Title: Farscape, WTF!!!
Post by: Vertigo1 on March 22, 2003, 01:30:36 am
Yeah, my jaw hit the floor when I saw that happened at the very end....then I started screaming some very vulgar obcenties about Scifi channel's ill-thought decision.

Bob: If you really want to get into the show, watch it from the very beginning.  Hell, your local Blockbuster should have a copy of the "Best of Season 1" DVD set (6 eps out of 22).

I'm going to introduce it to my 9 year old niece in the morning.
Title: Farscape, WTF!!!
Post by: Liberator on March 22, 2003, 01:31:38 am
Short Farscape Timeline:
1999 - Debut - Series hailed as a true creative masterpeice by general media.

2002 - Cancellation announced - fans and most people in the know to this very day wonder why.

March 21, 2003 - Final episode airs.  Ends with John and Aeryn getting granulated by some wierd never before seen bad guy and the final scene is of Aeryn's engagement ring and the words "To Be Continued".

Now the question remains:

Why did Sci Fi cancel their highest rated ongoing show when between it and Stargate SG-1, Sci Fi had Friday nights sewn up??
Title: Farscape, WTF!!!
Post by: Bobboau on March 22, 2003, 01:37:59 am
for the block buster tremors the TV show (http://www.scifi.com/tremors)

it's sort of interesting, in a how-the-****-do-they-think-they-can-make-a-TV-show-out-of-that-sort-of-crap-kind of way

and the muppet thing is becase
a; the show was made by the Jim Hanson company
and
b; two of the major charicters were basicly muppets
Title: Farscape, WTF!!!
Post by: Vertigo1 on March 22, 2003, 01:42:23 am
True, I didn't care for the muppets thing at first, but the stories they tell really get you into it so deeply that you can ignore the fact that Rygel and Pilot are anamatronics and think of them as real characters in the show.  The things they've done with the muppets in this series would blow your mind.
Title: Farscape, WTF!!!
Post by: Bobboau on March 22, 2003, 01:50:54 am
the Scarran were great, as were many other aliens I saw, but pilot has always looked like (she?) was made out of poly stirene though

you know, it's funny I went to there site to confirm that there was no part two or somthing and I saw this (http://www.scifi.com/farscape/news/)
the news for the thing was basicly

Quote
6.18.02 – SCI FI congratulates Farscape, which earned this year's Saturn Award for Best Syndicated/Cable Television Series, and series star Ben Browder, who received the Saturn Award for Best Actor on Television.

9.10.02 – The SCI FI Channel cancels Farscape, choosing to cease production after the end of the series' fourth season. Farscape was the longest-running original series in the SCI FI Channel's history. Read the full story on SCI FI Wire


and then

Quote
3.10.03 – SCI FI congratulates Farscape for earning three new Saturn Award nominations, in the categories of Best Syndicated Television Series, Best TV Actor (Ben Browder) and Best TV Actress (Claudia Black). Read the full story on SCI FI Wire.

:lol: :wtf:

this defies all logic!!!
Title: Farscape, WTF!!!
Post by: Liberator on March 22, 2003, 01:59:04 am
The honcho's at Sci Fi need to find the programming director that cancelled Farscape, by the way it's probably the same guy that killed "The Invisible Man", and flush him out the nearest airlock.  I mean he's killing the network.

On the bright side, Michael Shanks is returning as Daniel Jackson full time next season.  Something to do with the War with Anubis cranking up and the Lost City of the Ancients.
Title: Farscape, WTF!!!
Post by: Bobboau on March 22, 2003, 02:07:42 am
yes, that all seems very interesting, just wondering how he is suposed to return to SG1 after a year of Godhood,

but this thread is about what a travisty that ending was :mad:
Title: Farscape, WTF!!!
Post by: Turnsky on March 22, 2003, 02:16:51 am
Quote
Originally posted by Liberator
The honcho's at Sci Fi need to find the programming director that cancelled Farscape, by the way it's probably the same guy that killed "The Invisible Man", and flush him out the nearest airlock.  I mean he's killing the network.


nah, just have some of the admins pay him a visit, leading a angry mob consisting of fans of various cancelled series..
Title: Farscape, WTF!!!
Post by: Bobboau on March 22, 2003, 02:27:46 am
that would probly be a mob of about 3 million people gien the number of shows they've canceled
Title: Farscape, WTF!!!
Post by: Turnsky on March 22, 2003, 02:29:34 am
now give them all firearms ;7
Title: Farscape, WTF!!!
Post by: Bobboau on March 22, 2003, 02:31:47 am
What I want to know is how does a show like Babylon 5 (even though LOTR sucked) have a movie and nothing more is heard, yet a fart bomb such as "Tremmers3: the quest for more money" that sucks like the vacuum of space, a few months later they have a TV show
Title: Farscape, WTF!!!
Post by: Turnsky on March 22, 2003, 02:36:43 am
well, tv execs are a breed of idiocy all thier own.. and thier somwhat moronic attempts at making money from stupid movies,

likewise with them not making movies from otherwise very sound tv series like babylon 5
Title: Farscape, WTF!!!
Post by: Bobboau on March 22, 2003, 02:46:07 am
this is well beond simple TV exect moroncy, this is down rigth sadistic, as I said I wasn't even a big fan, and that ending hit me like a brick tosed from a fast moveing semi truck, I can't even fathom what the true die hard fans that have bonded with these charicters for the last four years must be going through, I have a feeling they just pissed of the wrong buch of nerds

a quote from there boards
"There is nothing worse than upsetting a bunch of people who tend to have enough technical knowledge to take over a small 3rd world country from their home PC"
ironic that that was the mesage I was opening just as i posted this one
Title: Farscape, WTF!!!
Post by: J.F.K. on March 22, 2003, 02:47:59 am
Quote
Originally posted by Bobboau
What I want to know is how does a show like Babylon 5 (even though LOTR sucked) have a movie and nothing more is heard, yet a fart bomb such as "Tremmers3: the quest for more money" that sucks like the vacuum of space, a few months later they have a TV show


:lol:

I'm actually laughing over here, you just summed it up so well :D
Title: Farscape, WTF!!!
Post by: LAM3O on March 22, 2003, 02:52:09 am
I hated the show.  Then scorpious showed up and i loved it, then it got bad again.  Scorpious was the only thing i really liked, i hope they make a show all about him.
Title: Farscape, WTF!!!
Post by: Bobboau on March 22, 2003, 02:53:27 am
you know they were just about to pull the plug on SG-1 when they realised that it was a super hit, then all of the sudden we're getting like three or four seasons and a spin off, even amung TV programers these are the stupidest people(?) I have ever come to think could exsist
Title: Farscape, WTF!!!
Post by: Turnsky on March 22, 2003, 02:55:37 am
let's hope they don't upset George W.  ;)
Title: Farscape, WTF!!!
Post by: Bobboau on March 22, 2003, 03:00:53 am
I want a list of all the great shows that has had the plug pulled by them off the top of my head I can think of
Lexx
sliders
The Invisible Man (never watched this my self)
Title: Farscape, WTF!!!
Post by: J.F.K. on March 22, 2003, 03:08:20 am
Quote
Originally posted by Bobboau
you know they were just about to pull the plug on SG-1 when they realised that it was a super hit, then all of the sudden we're getting like three or four seasons and a spin off,


They were going to pull the funding from Stargate? Gee, I'm glad they didn't! I wonder when the new season'll start in Australia..
Title: Farscape, WTF!!!
Post by: Turnsky on March 22, 2003, 04:18:39 am
JFK? how many free-to-air channels do you get in sydney?

'cause i only get four 2 main and two affiliate broadcasters

here they are

ABC
SBS
WIN Television (channel 9 Subsiduary)
Southern Cross Television (Affilitated with both channel 7 and ten)

Win & and SCTV are completely insane (there's not even weekday morning cartoons anymore!)
Title: Farscape, WTF!!!
Post by: Fetty on March 22, 2003, 04:57:17 am
ye terribly what those idiots do to tv shows
most of em dont even get aired over here
best example of big suits ****ing up i can remember is b5 crusade what they did was terrible airing em wrong ****ing up in production
bleh
Title: Farscape, WTF!!!
Post by: Turnsky on March 22, 2003, 05:03:05 am
you think that's bad?

i am yet to see a full season of babylon 5 (havn't even seen 1st season :( )
Title: Farscape, WTF!!!
Post by: karajorma on March 22, 2003, 05:25:13 am
Okay guys. Calm down.

Over at Farscape.com you`ll notice that the Jim Henson company are in talks to try and get a movie made. They also consider Farscape one of their flagship TV shows so i`m sure they'll try to get it done.

As for Sci-fi they obviously have no brains. They are moving away from starship based sci-fi cause stuff like tremors is cheaper. Obviously they don`t understand that cheaper often results in less viewers but since there are sci-fi fans who'll watch anything (even War of the Worlds - the TV series) they know that they'll break even so why not make the same amount of money with worse shows that have less risk?
Title: Farscape, WTF!!!
Post by: Turnsky on March 22, 2003, 05:29:30 am
ugh, i remember the "war of the worlds" tv series :ick
Title: Farscape, WTF!!!
Post by: J.F.K. on March 22, 2003, 05:58:05 am
Quote
Originally posted by Turnsky
JFK? how many free-to-air channels do you get in sydney?

'cause i only get four 2 main and two affiliate broadcasters

here they are

ABC
SBS
WIN Television (channel 9 Subsiduary)
Southern Cross Television (Affilitated with both channel 7 and ten)

Win & and SCTV are completely insane (there's not even weekday morning cartoons anymore!)


Sounds about the same. In Sydney we get ABC, SBS, Ten, Seven and Nine. Ten, Seven and Nine are also broadcasting digital TV if you've got a receiver and a TV which handles it.
Title: Farscape, WTF!!!
Post by: Fetty on March 22, 2003, 07:05:48 am
never got here
i guess only good shows arrive over here such as farscape stargate b5 n stuff :D
Title: Farscape, WTF!!!
Post by: demon442 on March 22, 2003, 11:21:56 am
It's sad, really.  The lengths productions executives will go just to make a quick buck.  To cancel one of their biggest money-makers in favor of "Tremors: Cash-Cow on life suport".  But, it just goes to show you how ****ed up the corporate world really is.

I say no more, no more should we let something we devote (sometimes religously) our time and effort to be killed by some jack off in a cushy office chair.  There needs to be a great change in the way sci-fi conducts its business, I call to all of the hardcore Farscape viewers to band together with your fellow man and strike back at the company that has forsaken us so.  This will be the last time Sci-Fi screws us over.
Title: Farscape, WTF!!!
Post by: Martinus on March 22, 2003, 04:58:35 pm
[color=66ff00]Y'know I see a lot of swearing on this thread, inventive swearing by Stryke, carefully worded swearing by Bob and other sporadic outbursts. Normally I'd be a bit miffed but after having seen the series 'pseudo-finale' a week or two ago I think I'm still blinded by rage and fully endorse all of the miffed ranting that goes on in this thread.

*Breaks out the Hard Light 'special issue hardware'*

Anyone know where those bastards live?
[/color]
Title: Farscape, WTF!!!
Post by: Stryke 9 on March 22, 2003, 05:07:00 pm
Ooh! Carte blanche!

[color=66ff00]EDITED: Farscape related rants you cur... :p
[/color]
Title: Farscape, WTF!!!
Post by: Liberator on March 22, 2003, 05:21:23 pm
Ooookay:eek2:

Let's just feed the execs to their Graboids.  Then chop up the the Graboid and throw it into a volcano then seal the volcano with a nuke.

Then we double the funding to Farscape and get the final season made it style. :thepimp:
Title: Farscape, WTF!!!
Post by: karajorma on March 22, 2003, 05:22:45 pm
Quote
Originally posted by demon442
I say no more, no more should we let something we devote (sometimes religously) our time and effort to be killed by some jack off in a cushy office chair.  There needs to be a great change in the way sci-fi conducts its business, I call to all of the hardcore Farscape viewers to band together with your fellow man and strike back at the company that has forsaken us so.  This will be the last time Sci-Fi screws us over.


Almost anything good is on usenet a few days later. If you want to hit Sci-fi where it hurts why not simply cancel your subscription and watch everything a day later off of the net.

Seriously the number of sci-fi fans who have broadband is way above average. If all of them simply cancelled we'd have the network execs by the short and curlies by the end of the week.
Title: Farscape, WTF!!!
Post by: Martinus on March 22, 2003, 05:28:34 pm
Quote
Originally posted by karajorma

Seriously the number of sci-fi fans who have broadband is way above average. If all of them simply cancelled we'd have the network execs by the short and curlies by the end of the week.


[color=66ff00]Good in theory pity nobody ever gets motivated enough to care. As for me I don't have SciFi for the reason that it was really bad for a really long time, ironically it got better a few months after we stopped getting Satellite. :rolleyes:
[/color]
Title: Farscape, WTF!!!
Post by: Stryke 9 on March 22, 2003, 05:33:18 pm
Heey! No fair!


Fine, gimme some names, I'll toss 'em in.:D

And technically, I'm quite sure sci-fi fans are demographically MUCH more tech- (and internet-) savvy than the average Billy-Bob, and seeing from all the *****ing I've seen online if you organized this well you could make the Sci-fi channel easily lose about 5% of its viewers.

In case you weren't aware, 5% for a big company is a lot. That, and the possibility that the trend wouldn't stop there, would mean that SFC execs would be faced between the choices of replacing the show and bankruptcy. Extortion, yes, but only in that you're refusing to be sold by them any more.

The trick is, of course, getting all those people willing to go that far. Not impossible, by any means, but you need a cause more sweeping and... well, interesting than Farscape to get a boycott. Maybe a whole BUNCH of good shows they canceled for the current crap.
Title: Farscape, WTF!!!
Post by: karajorma on March 22, 2003, 05:56:02 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Stryke 9
And technically, I'm quite sure sci-fi fans are demographically MUCH more tech- (and internet-) savvy than the average Billy-Bob, and seeing from all the *****ing I've seen online if you organized this well you could make the Sci-fi channel easily lose about 5% of its viewers.

In case you weren't aware, 5% for a big company is a lot. That, and the possibility that the trend wouldn't stop there, would mean that SFC execs would be faced between the choices of replacing the show and bankruptcy. Extortion, yes, but only in that you're refusing to be sold by them any more.

The trick is, of course, getting all those people willing to go that far. Not impossible, by any means, but you need a cause more sweeping and... well, interesting than Farscape to get a boycott. Maybe a whole BUNCH of good shows they canceled for the current crap.


Hell. Do it out of self interest. If people continue to watch Sci-fi even though it only peddles low risk, low budget crap (and stargate, the only surviving good show) then that's all that they will make. If they see people leaving they'll have to do something about it.
 Seriously is there anything new on Sci-fi that isn`t crap apart from SG-1? I ask as someone who never bothered watching that POS channel. (especially since the BBC managed to transmit the final episode of Farscape before the channel that commissioned it did)
Title: Farscape, WTF!!!
Post by: Stryke 9 on March 22, 2003, 06:34:55 pm
Quote
Originally posted by karajorma

 Seriously is there anything new on Sci-fi that isn`t crap apart from SG-1?  


The last part of that sentence is misleading and contradictory. It should just read: "Is there anything new on Sci-Fi that isn't crap?"
Title: Farscape, WTF!!!
Post by: an0n on March 22, 2003, 06:39:29 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Stryke 9


The last part of that sentence is misleading and contradictory. It should just read: "Is there anything new on Sci-Fi that isn't crap?"

Don't make me *****-slap you.
Title: Farscape, WTF!!!
Post by: Stryke 9 on March 22, 2003, 06:41:31 pm
You should be ashamed of yourself. The only way they could do worse would be to make Super Mario Brothers: The TV Show- just like the movie, but with lower production values and an even more robotic script.

If that's the best thing on the Sci-Fi channel these days, I'm immensely relieved I don't have cable. It was bad enough when they showed that thing broadcast.
Title: Farscape, WTF!!!
Post by: an0n on March 22, 2003, 06:50:51 pm
Stargate f*cking ownz.

Enterprise. Now there's piece of ****.
Title: Farscape, WTF!!!
Post by: Stryke 9 on March 22, 2003, 06:53:11 pm
A-men. That's even on the SF channel? Thought it was restricted to Fox or WB or whatever.


You gotta admit, though, it looks cool, and that's the one ST ship that actually looked interesting for more than maybe a minute.
Title: Farscape, WTF!!!
Post by: Martinus on March 22, 2003, 06:55:51 pm
Quote
Originally posted by an0n
Stargate f*cking ownz.

[color=66ff00]Word.

As for enterprise, I haven't seen enough of it to say but it really hasn't done too much for me thus far.
[/color]
Title: Farscape, WTF!!!
Post by: an0n on March 22, 2003, 07:06:03 pm
The thing with Stargate is, it started out with some pretty crappy episodes (the one exception being Emancipation, simpy due to the dress), but Sci-Fi had signed them up for 3 seasons already so they had time to work out the kinks and get good.

And by the season 6 finale, Stargate was into legendary status. Full Cirlce kicked it out of the realms of legend and into mythical status.

I mean, if you've seen Full Circle, you can't help but love Stargate.

The latter half of season 5 and season 6 (bar 2-3 episodes) got so dark. Whereas before we had SG1 = Good, Goa'uld = Bad, the lines started to blur with people like Yu and the rebel Jaffa, then the NID started becoming more prominent.

All in all, Stargate started off shaky, but with good potential and although it did nothing particularly spectacular for the first 4 seasons, when the 5th season rolled around and they started tying together old story-lines it came into it's own.

Sufficed to say, season 7 is gonna rawk.
Title: Farscape, WTF!!!
Post by: Turnsky on March 22, 2003, 07:10:44 pm
not only that, but as the seasons progressively improved over it's early days so did it's budget therefore they could use something a little more technical I.E more (and longer) computer special effects
Title: Farscape, WTF!!!
Post by: Stryke 9 on March 22, 2003, 07:11:44 pm
Eh, maybe I was seeing Season 3 or something.


I really, really wish there was more hard sci-fi out there. I mean, sure, the effects can be pretty and it's nice and light and fun to just have people out having wacky adventures in space and time, but after a (very short) while the whole "science is all magic and we can defy the laws of physics 'cause we're rebels against the law!" thing starts insulting my intelligence to an unacceptable level (I mean, ****, it's TV, I'm willing to meet it halfway if only because it's naive to hope it'll go any farther).

I mean, ****, I nearly failed junior year in Physics, and STILL I get strongly tempted to throw something heavy at the TV screen and scream "What the **** were you thinking???" too often to like most SF shows they have these days.


I mean, if they just once in a while took the time to explain how one of their big fancy phasers would work in theory without inventing a dozen new technical-sounding words that don't mean anything ("recalibrate the tertiary lambic guano drive NOW!"), or even didn't go out of their way to ignore Newtonian physics, I'd be okay with 'em. Takes next to no intellectual effort on their part, and would make things so much more interesting. But no, we've got ships with rockets that appear to suck rather than expel force, and people can survive in a vacuum if they just hold their breath.
Title: Farscape, WTF!!!
Post by: karajorma on March 22, 2003, 07:28:22 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Stryke 9
I really, really wish there was more hard sci-fi out there. I mean, sure, the effects can be pretty and it's nice and light and fun to just have people out having wacky adventures in space and time, but after a (very short) while the whole "science is all magic and we can defy the laws of physics 'cause we're rebels against the law!" thing starts insulting my intelligence to an unacceptable level


Unfortunately hard Sci-fi is incredibly unpopular. Seriously, name a hard Sci-fi TV series. You ask for more but at least by my definition I can`t think of any.
Title: Farscape, WTF!!!
Post by: an0n on March 22, 2003, 07:33:51 pm
S:AAB

Anyone says Lexx and I cut their throat.
Title: Farscape, WTF!!!
Post by: J.F.K. on March 22, 2003, 07:45:33 pm
Quote
Originally posted by an0n
And by the season 6 finale, Stargate was into legendary status. Full Cirlce kicked it out of the realms of legend and into mythical status.

I mean, if you've seen Full Circle, you can't help but love Stargate.


I already love Stargate, and I haven't even finished Season 5. :D
Title: Farscape, WTF!!!
Post by: Martinus on March 22, 2003, 07:51:18 pm
[color=66ff00]S:AAB was a good show :nod:

I don't think that hard scifi would be as good as you think Stryke, lets face it, one of the most popular Scifi shows ever made; StarWars, is very light in the real science department.
Farscape shares SW's 'put the characters first and the science second' ideal so what you have is an interesting cast that makes the material interesting. If Pilot constantly babbled techno-nonsense at the rate it was churned out in some episodes of ST:TNG, Farscape would really suck.

Science is good when used to introduce interesting scenarios but it bites if it's used to try to make something look 'cerebral' which is what most bad scifi does. Too many people are getting hung up on the science and not paying attention to the second part of the genre's name 'fiction'. When was the last time you read a heavy physics text? They're pretty damn boring. :)
[/color]
Title: Farscape, WTF!!!
Post by: karajorma on March 22, 2003, 07:56:01 pm
Quote
Originally posted by an0n
S:AAB

Anyone says Lexx and I cut their throat.


Yeah. S:AAB was quite good but I never figured out why they didn`t just invent some proper space fighters rather than insisting on using the Hammerheads for space combat when they were clearly designed for combined space/atmospheric work.

Also the tactics in that show were always airplane like (or freespace like). You never saw anyone flying backwards shooting at an enemy behind them. B5 is probably much better when it comes to space combat as the starfuries do fly backwards occasionally.
 Unfortunately B5 screwed up the biology badly. Almost everyone is humanoid.

I guess S:AAB is the closest thing we`ve seen to hard Sci-fi though. Kind of explains why it got canned after only one series.
Title: Farscape, WTF!!!
Post by: karajorma on March 22, 2003, 08:09:03 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Maeglamor
[color=66ff00]I don't think that hard scifi would be as good as you think Stryke, lets face it, one of the most popular Scifi shows ever made; StarWars, is very light in the real science department.
Farscape shares SW's 'put the characters first and the science second' ideal so what you have is an interesting cast that makes the material interesting. If Pilot constantly babbled techno-nonsense at the rate it was churned out in some episodes of ST:TNG, Farscape would really suck.

Science is good when used to introduce interesting scenarios but it bites if it's used to try to make something look 'cerebral' which is what most bad scifi does. Too many people are getting hung up on the science and not paying attention to the second part of the genre's name 'fiction'. When was the last time you read a heavy physics text? They're pretty damn boring. :)
[/color]


I guess you haven`t read much hard sci-fi in that case. Done properly it can be just as gripping as the soft stuff.

What I`d like to see is something with B5's sweeping storyline and use of real world physics in combat (at least with the Starfuries) and aliens that don`t even look remotely human and above all behave in an alien fashion.

Soft sci-fi has it's place. I love B5, SG-1, Farscape and the rest of the good soft sci-fi but there is a place for those of us who want to see sci-fi that doesn`t treat us like children.

Most sci-fi ends up building it's own framework of psuedo physics anyway. The reason why modern trek get laughed at so often by sci-fi fans is precisely because it fails to even stick to it's own set of rules.

If instead you start off with the real rules of physics and only deviate from them when coming up with priciple like FTL drives etc and the stick by your own rules you have the basis for a good series.

Hard sci-fi doesn`t have to be a dry text book. Every single show that isn`t sci-fi or fantasy sticks to the laws of physics yet you don`t complain at them for doing so.
Title: Farscape, WTF!!!
Post by: Stryke 9 on March 22, 2003, 08:15:57 pm
Maeg: Mostly, what kara said. It doesn't need to break up the plot or action at all, and in fact these things are usually better the more you understand what's going on, never mind that it's more immersive and interesting as a story if it appears to all be in the realm of the possible, that it might happen sometime in the future, rather than just being something somebody thought up the night after too much bad pizza. The problem is, it involves actually understanding several fields of science, and, while there are few limitations if you care to think of a way something could happen, those limits are still there.

Besides, I can name dozens of hard SF movies. 2001 being the most famous (and I don't ask for it to the extent 2001 had, where there was no sound in space and ****), of course, but far from the only.

Really, the reason you never see any these days is because education is such ****e that you'd get people saying "Hold on, why isn't stuff slowing down when it doesn't have an engine actively burning behind it for a minute?"



You'll also notice that Star Wars is a fair sight more accurate than most sci-fi on TV. It was fluff in many respects, but occasionally they took efforts to get things right. They NEVER do anymore.

Beh. Anyway, if anyone is stupid enough to ask why in MY renders and movies things can be moving without thrusters being on all the time, or starts going on about how the heatsink for a fusion-fission powerplant wouldn't need to be that big, I'm going to do my best to burn their ears (eyes?) off. You've all been warned.
Title: Farscape, WTF!!!
Post by: Martinus on March 22, 2003, 08:19:29 pm
Quote
Originally posted by karajorma


I guess you haven`t read much hard sci-fi in that case. Done properly it can be just as gripping as the soft stuff.

What I`d like to see is something with B5's sweeping storyline and use of real world physics in combat (at least with the Starfuries) and aliens that don`t even look remotely human and above all behave in an alien fashion.

Soft sci-fi has it's place. I love B5, SG-1, Farscape and the rest of the good soft sci-fi but there is a place for those of us who want to see sci-fi that doesn`t treat us like children.

Most sci-fi ends up building it's own framework of psuedo physics anyway. The reason why modern trek get laughed at so often by sci-fi fans is precisely because it fails to even stick to it's own set of rules.

If instead you start off with the real rules of physics and only deviate from them when coming up with priciple like FTL drives etc and the stick by your own rules you have the basis for a good series.

Hard sci-fi doesn`t have to be a dry text book. Every single show that isn`t sci-fi or fantasy sticks to the laws of physics yet you don`t complain at them for doing so.

[color=66ff00]Actually I'm a big fan of Asimov and Clarke because they write interesting hard scifi (or hard as I see it) the reason it's interesting is not the actual events but how they are broken down and percieved by the characters, usually scientists, placed in unusual scenarios and relying on their understanding of the physical world.
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Title: Farscape, WTF!!!
Post by: Stryke 9 on March 22, 2003, 08:23:10 pm
That's an extremely limited perception of what's out there. Both have some good stuff, but get some Niven, some Miller (definitely, he's God, Buddha, and Jesus on his encore tour all rolled into one), some Gibson (he counts as hard even if he made half his stuff up, 'cos he was consistent and none of it is, technically, impossible or even improbable)... hmm, maybe I should make a list.
Title: Farscape, WTF!!!
Post by: Martinus on March 22, 2003, 08:29:07 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Stryke 9
That's an extremely limited perception of what's out there. Both have some good stuff, but get some Niven, some Miller (definitely, he's God, Buddha, and Jesus on his encore tour all rolled into one), some Gibson (he counts as hard even if he made half his stuff up, 'cos he was consistent and none of it is, technically, impossible or even improbable)... hmm, maybe I should make a list.

[color=66ff00]*Maeglamor makes a list*
:D
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Title: Farscape, WTF!!!
Post by: Mr. Vega on March 22, 2003, 08:30:02 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Maeglamor

[color=66ff00]Actually I'm a big fan of Asimov and Clarke because they write interesting hard scifi (or hard as I see it) the reason it's interesting is not the actual events but how they are broken down and percieved by the characters, usually scientists, placed in unusual scenarios and relying on their understanding of the physical world.
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Yeah, I haven't read Clarke but Asimov does a great job at explaining the hard science pretty clearly. The more I think of it, the more something like Psychohistory could actually be possible.
Title: Farscape, WTF!!!
Post by: an0n on March 22, 2003, 08:30:07 pm
Quote
Originally posted by karajorma
You never saw anyone flying backwards shooting at an enemy behind them.

Yeah ya did. Most notably, when McQueen went after Chiggy von Richthofen.

And as far as hard sci-fi goes, methinks Alien takes the cake.
Title: Farscape, WTF!!!
Post by: Turnsky on March 22, 2003, 08:33:44 pm
HR GIGER (http://www.hrgiger.com)
Title: Farscape, WTF!!!
Post by: Stryke 9 on March 22, 2003, 08:36:43 pm
GAH! Meant Bester, not Miller. Normally, I wouldn't belabor the point, but The Stars my Destination is just plain mandatory reading, seeing as it's easily in the top... say, fifteen best books written in the last century, well above any other SF book. Miller's good, too, but I couldn't stand A Canticle for Leibowitz, and he isn't exactly careful about his science, in the same way a crackhead isn't very careful with a 2x4 in a mirror shop.
Title: Farscape, WTF!!!
Post by: J.F.K. on March 22, 2003, 08:41:01 pm
Quote
Originally posted by karajorma
Unfortunately B5 screwed up the biology badly. Almost everyone is humanoid.


That's one of the things I like about SG: it provides a plausible backstory which explains why SG-1 meets so many humans on their missions. :yes: It's difficult making up truly inventive races, though. I didn't think the Shadows and the Vorlons were too shabby.
Title: Farscape, WTF!!!
Post by: Turnsky on March 22, 2003, 08:42:09 pm
aint that the truth :p
Title: Farscape, WTF!!!
Post by: karajorma on March 23, 2003, 03:34:01 am
Quote
Originally posted by J.F.K.


That's one of the things I like about SG: it provides a plausible backstory which explains why SG-1 meets so many humans on their missions. :yes: It's difficult making up truly inventive races, though. I didn't think the Shadows and the Vorlons were too shabby.


I loved that about SG-1. It was such a nice plot point. Then they did what they did with the ancients in series 6 (I won`t say what for those who still haven`t seen it) which makes NO sense whatsoever. The ancients should have been completely alien since they were around 3 million years before humankind came onto the scene.

Quote
Originally posted by Maeglamor

[color=66ff00]Actually I'm a big fan of Asimov and Clarke because they write interesting hard scifi (or hard as I see it) the reason it's interesting is not the actual events but how they are broken down and percieved by the characters, usually scientists, placed in unusual scenarios and relying on their understanding of the physical world.
[/color]


Then you'll know exactly what I mean. IIRC they were planning to make Rendezvous with Rama into a movie. The first Rama book was excellent and would have made a kick arse movie yet that got canned while Battlefield Earth got the go ahead!

If you`re going to read Niven I VERY highly reccomend Protector. Niven got the evolutionary biology wrong but if you`re willing to forgive that everything else is spot on including what a battle at half of light speed would really be like. :D
Title: Farscape, WTF!!!
Post by: Turnsky on March 23, 2003, 04:25:24 am
ah, battlefield earth truly Not a defining moment for john travolta :p all in all, the worst movie i'd seen for quite a while..
Title: Farscape, WTF!!!
Post by: RangerKarl on March 23, 2003, 04:41:58 am
I still don't get why everyone in SG-1 can speak English so fluently......
Title: Farscape, WTF!!!
Post by: an0n on March 23, 2003, 07:45:03 am
Goa'uld is the language of the Gods, and English is the language of the slaves (and subsequently that of most of the transplanted humans in the galaxy).
Title: Farscape, WTF!!!
Post by: Crazy_Ivan80 on March 23, 2003, 08:15:15 am
Quote
Originally posted by Bobboau
if that was the last episode why didn't they just cut the last five seconds off?
at least get rid of the to be continued thing,
 


Why should they have pandered to the network that cancelled them?
It's excellent the way it is.
Title: Farscape, WTF!!!
Post by: an0n on March 23, 2003, 08:18:04 am
It would've been excellent, if half the granules hadn't fallen into the water.
Title: Farscape, WTF!!!
Post by: karajorma on March 23, 2003, 11:14:53 am
Quote
Originally posted by an0n
It would've been excellent, if half the granules hadn't fallen into the water.


Who says they need them all? Maybe the beam generates it's own equivalent of .par files while it granulates them :)
Title: Farscape, WTF!!!
Post by: Bobboau on March 23, 2003, 03:52:26 pm
or maybe there magnetic or something so the ship can hover and pick them up easily
there's been technology sort of like this in the earlier episodes (one of the few I've seen) remember when Jhon was turned into that statue and then had his head choped off and droped into a vat of acid, and they were still able to bring him back
Title: Farscape, WTF!!!
Post by: Grey Wolf on March 23, 2003, 06:21:46 pm
Ack! Enterprise! Someone mentioned the evil show! That thing contradicts all of the other Trek series! Not to mentione the fact that a good deal of the episodes I've seen look like they're trying to mimic the worst episodes from the other 4 series.
Title: Farscape, WTF!!!
Post by: Vertigo1 on March 23, 2003, 06:35:19 pm
Quote
Originally posted by RangerKarl
I still don't get why everyone in SG-1 can speak English so fluently......


Not everyone speaks english.  Some speak ancient egyptian, some use latin or are latin-based (the ancients for example), and then you have the people that are descended from the mongols, the norse, etc...
Title: Farscape, WTF!!!
Post by: Bobboau on March 23, 2003, 06:38:29 pm
yes, one of the things I always liked about SG-1, especaly the earlier episodes, was that not everyone spoke english (every now and then they were actualy suprized that some people could be understud, though not that much anymore)
Title: Farscape, WTF!!!
Post by: Grey Wolf on March 23, 2003, 06:43:33 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Vertigo1


Not everyone speaks english.  Some speak ancient egyptian, some use latin or are latin-based (the ancients for example), and then you have the people that are descended from the mongols, the norse, etc...
I haven't seen that many episodes, I remember I saw one episode that had some sort of Celtic-based theme...
Title: Farscape, WTF!!!
Post by: ZylonBane on March 23, 2003, 10:12:30 pm
Wormhole Extreme!

But seriously, one of my favorite things about SG1 is that whenever they come across some incredibly useful piece of alien technology... they actually use it in future episodes. Unlike all Trek, where all the cool alien crap is completely forgotten by the next episode.
Title: Farscape, WTF!!!
Post by: Liberator on March 24, 2003, 12:13:48 am
Absolutely, Zat's have replaced the Standard Issue .45 caliber sidearms for all SG teams.

One of my favorite lines is when,after Carter demostrates the superior accuracy of a P-90 versus a Staff Weapon against a target.  She cuts the log in half under full-auto, then switches to single fire and proceeds to cut the still moving rope with a single shot, Jack holds a staff weapon up and says,"This is a weapon of terror.  It is made to subdue through fear.", then holding up his P-90,"This is a weapon of war, it is made to kill people"  I was giggling uncontrolably for several minutes.

As far as everyone speaking english, it's probably a widespread language among the Goa'uld placed human colonies as it's relatively easily learned and can transfer a larger amount of information per word.  Or they could have Universal Translators,  one of the biggest gripes about Star Trek is how everyone speaks english.  They don't, they use UTs.  ST just removes the step of the UTs providing a translation.
Title: Farscape, WTF!!!
Post by: Turnsky on March 24, 2003, 12:17:25 am
i remember the earlier episodes, when sg-1 still used mp5's, when they switched to p-90's it was a pleasant surprise p-90's are better than mp5's in some respects one being a larger clip
Title: Farscape, WTF!!!
Post by: karajorma on March 24, 2003, 04:17:51 am
Quote
Originally posted by ZylonBane
Wormhole Extreme!

But seriously, one of my favorite things about SG1 is that whenever they come across some incredibly useful piece of alien technology... they actually use it in future episodes. Unlike all Trek, where all the cool alien crap is completely forgotten by the next episode.


Yep. That has to be one of the nicest things about SG1 and for that matter Farscape. Not many shows would do an episode where the main character was split in two and not have them back to one person by the end of the series. In Farscape they kept having two copys for nearly half the series.

It's nice to see a show where they don`t treat the viewer as if he only has a 50 minute memory.
Title: Farscape, WTF!!!
Post by: neo_hermes on March 24, 2003, 07:02:10 pm
Agree with you there Karajorma.:nod:
Title: Farscape, WTF!!!
Post by: Vertigo1 on March 24, 2003, 11:14:26 pm
Quote
Originally posted by ZylonBane
Wormhole Extreme!

But seriously, one of my favorite things about SG1 is that whenever they come across some incredibly useful piece of alien technology... they actually use it in future episodes. Unlike all Trek, where all the cool alien crap is completely forgotten by the next episode.


And then you take into account that it also makes for some of the funniest material for the goof-off episodes. "Moment of Opportunity" anyone?  Then theres Farscape's "Revenging Angel" and "Won't Get Fooled Again". :D
Title: Farscape, WTF!!!
Post by: Grey Wolf on March 25, 2003, 03:23:15 pm
I remember there was an episode of Farscape that mimiced the old Road Runner/Coyote formula....
Title: Farscape, WTF!!!
Post by: Vertigo1 on March 25, 2003, 08:42:54 pm
That would be "Revenging Angel", aka the looney tunes episode.

I laughed my ass off when D'Argo got rammed by the Enterprise. :D