Hard Light Productions Forums
General FreeSpace => FreeSpace Discussion => Topic started by: Grey Wolf on March 25, 2003, 03:26:41 pm
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Any suggestions on a good replacement joystick? I've had a Logitech Wingman Extreme Digital 3D for a while, but the handle twist has started to go. Should I just replace it with another copy of the same joystick, or is there a better one in the $20-$60 range?
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I know it may be a bit old, but if you ask me, nothing beats a CH Flightstick Pro. Been using the same one for the last, what, 8 years? Maybe more. Since I got my 486-dx2 at any rate. So that'll vouch for the reliability. And as for the grip, I find the no-nonsense smooth grip much nicer than the ones which try to fit your hand, but inevitably seem made for a different hand size than your own :p Does lack a few buttons compared to some newer joysticks, but if you can get by with 4+hat I can't think of anything better, and they do have throttle if you like to use that.
Another thing I should mention, the Flightstick has a pretty huge deflection compared to most other joysticks I've tried over the years, so it's not a general purpose joystick by any means. It's great for flightsims of any kind, but only for those. If you use joysticks for more arcady type games as well, it's probably better to opt for a less specialized one.
And hey, it's even made an appearence in the 'X-Men' movie (their aircraft is steered with a Flightstick Pro), so it's a celebrity joystick too :D
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Currently I use a Saitek X45 HOTAS joystick, which I can barely fault. Sure, it's a flight simulator joystick primarily, but as it's fully programmable I've been able to make it useful in just about all the 3D games I have, even FPS games. It's got a proper throttle with a finger-paddle rudder control at the back, which I find much preferable to a twist-grip. And it's not even that expensive!
I'd recommend anything else from the Saitek range too, the build quality ain't half bad, and so long as you aren't a complete AOL n00bish person (which since you're at HLP, you are not), the support isn't all that bad either. The programming software is not for the faint of heart though, there's one heck of a lot to program if you take into account everything - well over 200 different buttons if you program all the 4 8-way hats as buttons each way, as well as all your other buttons and 4 axii... I've never even got close to even programming all of mode 1 though, that's plenty enough ^_^
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I'm currently fed up with the pricey HOTAS systems that go scrap within 2 years (like my TOP GUN Afterburner did recently).
Now I have changed to HOKAS (Hands on Keyboard and Stick :D) with a Thrustmaster TOP GUN USB (15 $).
Simple but works. :)
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my gravis blackhawk digital isn't too bad, before that i actually KILLED my last joystick playing FS2.. snapped the handle clean off
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Originally posted by Grunt
Now I have changed to HOKAS (Hands on Keyboard and Stick :D)
LOL! Touché mate. :)
My favorite is MS SideWinder Precision Pro.
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i like my ms sidewind force feedback 2
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The older Top Gun, really good, and really cheap
(http://ebay2.ipixmedia.com/abc/M28/_EBAY_3bcaa0868da5b9bb1e693dac6b2f81be/i-1.JPG)
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Originally posted by LAM3O
The older Top Gun, really good, and really cheap
That's what I have but with an USB plug. Some says that it's quite durable. But even if I have to buy two of them a year, compared to the Afterburner I'm still there in price.
It's OK for FS, not too good with a chopper sim though. :)
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Originally posted by LAM3O
The older Top Gun, really good, and really cheap
Oooh, I was just going to recommend that (guess what I use?).
One problem though, no driver support with Windows 2000: the general drivers can't figure it out - pressing multiple buttons together results in 'POV hat left' and the hat itself doesn't work... (the signal itself can be read alright, just no drivers to translate it properly!) Win 98 did have the right drivers for it, but I haven't found ones for Win2k. Anyone else had this problem?
(And no, I'm not going to use win9x for anything.)
It is cheap and a very durable joystick, an excellent purchase.
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Saitek Cyborg 3D Gold USB. :yes: :yes:
Reliable, strong, high build quality, etc.
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Just as a note, I should mention that I'm running XP on this comp. And I'm reminding you guys about the upper spending limit of 60-70 USD
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I use a "TOP GUNTM FOX 2 PROTM USB" From Thrustmaster. It works great, but has no FF. it was like $30ish... 8 buttins, 8 pos. hat, 3 axis, throttle, adjustable resistance, and it looks like an actual fighter controlstick.
Heres a picture (http://us.thrustmaster.com/products/lookproduct.php3?productid=122&skin=Joysticks)
(http://us.thrustmaster.com/products/lookproduct.php3?productid=122&skin=Joysticks)
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I think I found what I want :)
(http://www.logitech.com/lang/images/0/911.gif)
The damn cord has always bugged me on the one I have now, and this is basically the same as my current one, with a few extra buttons. Pushes the upper end of my price envelope though. My only question about it is, where's the throttle? If I don't get this, though, I'll probably just replace me old one with a new one of the same kind. Lasted me over two years, so I'm not really worrying about lifetime.
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see the funny silver bump right before the black part on the odd support out? That's it.
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OK, I see it. I was looking for one of the Wingman-type throttles.
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Hey, how important in FS2 is it to have a twist handle stick? I live close to CH company and thought I might get a good deal on a fighterstick usb if I drove over there to get one, but I dont think they have twist handles. Is keyboard for left hand stuff and rudder ok in FS2? I dont have the game yet but gonna get it soon. I wanna be able to plug in and go when it comes in heh.
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I'm still using my Sidewinder PRO that I got in 95.
I have to put the deadzone up there cause it's a bit shaky, but she still works like a beaut!
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my gravis blackhawk digital hasn't let me down yet :D
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I had that stick untill I got my new computer, then it dies suddenly, for the longest time I thought it was the computer
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I had a Logitech Wingman for about 6 years. I loved it dearly, even though it had only a trigger and top button and throttle. I had to replace it when my new comp doesnt have a game port on the Audigy 2. I got an Attack 3. It sucks. Dont buy it. Mostly because it feels like **** in your hands but also because its top heavy and the base moves all over the place. :mad:
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I've got a Sidewinder Precision Pro that's lasted probably at least 5 years. 9 buttons 3-axis, it's still pretty good.
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Yes, but I was mainly asking how important the twist handle is for FS2...
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Important because of the way guns are mounted on the ships.
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Personally, I've been using my Afterburner II for what ? 3, 4 years now ? And it still doesn't show any problems. HOTAS is the way to go, I say !! :D
Plus this one is not really pricey ;7
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I'm not sure about replacement joysticks, but I can suggest a joystick replacement. It was either ZB or Eish, but it's stuck with me: go for the abacus, guys. I think there's a USB version out, it's the only real way to experience FS.
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Speaking of HOTAS. Have a look at this bargin (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B000062SSB/002-7021758-4019223?v=glance) I found earlier today :lol:
(http://homepage.ntlworld.com/karajorma/freespace/Misc-Pics/Bargin.jpg)
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15c? :eek: That's like AU24c!!
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Makes you want to rush out and get one before sale ends, doesn't it :)
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I think that's just so that the husband can say:
"But Honey! It was on SALE. You understand... You can't turn up a sale!"
:D
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Lol, they must have been desperate to get that one out the door. :D
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Amazon is not the place to buy the Cougar. It can be had from several other vendors for $249-269. That said, its by far and away the best stick and throttle you can buy. There is very literally nothing like it out there. There is no match for the feel and control you get.
Now, in the <$70 price range, I wouldn't settle for anything less than a Saitek X45. Yeah, the stick is flimsy and the springs are crap compared the Cougar, but its the only stick that gives you something that approaches the flexibility of a Cougar.
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Originally posted by DeepSpace9er
I had a Logitech Wingman for about 6 years. I loved it dearly, even though it had only a trigger and top button and throttle. I had to replace it when my new comp doesnt have a game port on the Audigy 2.
Same here (exactly the same, bar a different sound card. have a Saitek Cyborg (the newest-but-one version) - it's pretty good, but it's surprisingly light felling and the trigger is a little 'clicky'. Very ergonomic design, though (i.e. comfy), plus the buttons are pretty well place.
Albeit I'll never understand buttons and throttles being placed on the base of the stick - the oinly way to use them is to cross my hands, tkae me joystick hand off the stick, or to sit with the thing straight in front of me and drop the keyboard althogether.
Couldn't find another Wingman at the time I was shopping, I should add......
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Ahhhh. Okie. I have, as of today, narrowed my choices to either a CH Fighterstick USB or a Saitek X-45 HOTAS rig for my Win98 box. The rundown on both as I see are-
Fighterstick- Durable, well built and good product support. Good mapping software too. Kinda clunky feel, tho precise. Trim wheels. I'd still need left hand on keyboard.
X-45- Highly configurable, probably better feel. Though not as precise(?) or durable. Not as good support, from what I read. But can use without keyboard or mouse. Plus this HOTAS is less cost than the Fighterstick, and still only ties up one of my 2 USB. Mikhael- how do you rate overall durability of your X-45? (and calibration stability?)
No twisty grip on either, tho that can be programmed to a switch on the Fighterstich, CH support guy sez. And prolly moot for the Saitek. Decisions decisions... HELP!!! What do yall think? Let's take a vote!
Sound off!!!
Zeke
p.s. The Amazon Cougar thing is a hoot, LOL!
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Me? Use a Saitek? Surely, someone has slipped the spacecrack in the water. I use a Thrustmaster HOTAS/Cougar. I went without a stick for ages rather than put up with some garbage game stick from Logitech, Microsoft, Saitek, etc.
I've only dealt with the X45 in the store, to see how it compared to the Thrustmaster in feel (inferior: its axes are mushy and the buttons feel gummy and its made of PLASTIC, without even a fiberglass rod). By reputation, however, from my friends who have them, they're pretty good, as long as you don't use the stock Saitek software.
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Roll axis = needed if you want to get better than n00b skill ;)
Then again, if you only intend to play single player, you won't need it to beat the hell outta stupid AI. :)
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I've used CH F-16 sticks for my entire, though pretty short, gamer life.
They are precise, have just the ergonomy I need and can handle unbeliavable punishment.
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Originally posted by Lightspeed
Roll axis = needed if you want to get better than n00b skill ;)
I disagree. A bank axis is convenient, but hardly necessary--and if you really want it, you can just apply it with digital keypresses.
What really helps get you past 'n00b' skills is having a stick and throttle that don't require you to ever touch a mouse or keyboard because every single function is under your fingers at all times (like a good HOTAS setup).
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Banking is fun though.
And that's not a typo.
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YEEEHAW!!! I just went and got me the Saitek X45 USB today along with MW4:Mecenaries to try it out with, and I got to spend a few minutes shooting stuff. The enemy tanks blowed up good. They blowed up REAL good!!! WOOT! I still aint sure if the Saitek MW4 (Vengeance) profile I loaded took proper, in MW4, really. I just ran around using my throttle and rudder and stick and hat(s) and stuff. Seeing what all blowed up when I mashed this button or that. It'll take me a bit to know what all is configured right. For what it's worth tho, and mebbe I'm one of the lucky ones with the X45, but installation went flawless. Smooth as silk. I loaded the CD software first like I was supposed to, then plugged in the rig when it told me. Installed the newest drivers and profile prog from saitek right after, no probs again. Tested and calibrated etc. I had started to use that guy Dhauzimmer's 3rd party drivers and stuff but after reading over all that on his site, I decided to see if the newer Saitek driver and prog might be ok for now. Seems ok, tho my rudder dont go back -quite- to center from one direction when let go, and a lil of that with the stick. But it dont seem like a big whoop. BOY this things fun! And so is MW4, another game I missed while being addicted to Evercrack. I cant wait to try this rig on FS2! BTW, I also got a Thrustmaster Fox 2 Pro USB to see how I like, in case the X45 install got hosed heh. It's a great feeling stick even tho it won't do all the X45 can, I know. And it was only $30. I might keep it as a backup, if nothing else. I havent tried it yet.
Anyway thx for the feedback. I gonna practice up with my stick(s) in MW4, when I get time tomorrow, to learn them good while waiting on FS2 to arrive. I'll holler at yall later!
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Now, when you get a chance, find someone with a HOTAS/Cougar and give it a shot. You'll cry when you see how good it feels and then you'll cry tears of blood when you realize that you're going to shell out the cash for it.;)
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If you can find the old sidewinder precision pro go for it.
It still is the best joy in the economy segment ever built, but I doubt you'll find it, since it came out of production a couple of years ago.
Mine has probably thousands of hours of activity (I've been in a spacesim clan for 4 years and I never changed it) and still works. It's highly imprecise in analogic, but in USB mode althought slower still works almost fine.
Avoid as hell the MS precision 2: it really suck
The wingman extreme digital 3d was pretty good, but from what I know it has a shorter life than the first precision pro.
An excellent stick for quality/price ratio was the Saitek gold, not sure if it still is sold.
There's also the thrustmaster (IIRC it's called precision pro too) but I nver used it nor I know of any using it, so....