Hard Light Productions Forums
Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => FS2 Open Coding - The Source Code Project (SCP) => Topic started by: FreeTerran on April 02, 2003, 09:12:16 am
-
Can anyone programm that we can use 16.7 Mio colors for the interface and not the limitation of 256 colors.
And the limitation of Animations too please.
-
this has been suggested before, and it was decided that this wasn't neccesary. if you just make an image in 16million, and then compress it to 256, it will look just as good. as long as you use some reasonable graphics software.
-
:wtf: But i use over 100.000 colors for one of the pic and when i convert it to 256 colors it looks bad but i must take the pic at my mod and can't use an other.
-
what program do you use to convert it?
perhaps you can e-mail me the pic and let me try.
I AM NOT JOINING YOUR MOD, I'M ONLY HELPING THIS ONCE.
or perhaps you should use another picture
-
I DON'T USE AN OTHER PIC
I use PSP 7 and Photoshop.
What usee you to convert it ?
-
i'd use PSP. can you first post some before and after pics, then i might see the problem.
why don't you just use another picture, and stop demanding things.
or even better, work on missions first, and then work on interface. missions and a good storyline are more important then mods.
-
:mad2: Why will you not that the fs_open support 16.7 mio colors ?
-
i'm no coder, so you can just wait for one of them to see this topic, and then ask nicely. but i just don't think it's necesary and that you shouldn't put that much time in things like new interface and music, and more time in story and mission.
-
I have talked with inquistor and they have say they do what they can.
-
Originally posted by Free Terran
:mad2: Why will you not that the fs_open support 16.7 mio colors ?
Probably because people come in and demand it, and then get angry when it's not done within thirty one minutesor so of the thread first being posted.
-
While I don't believe 256 colors looks nearly as good as 16.7 million colors, no mater what converter, when the image is truly complex, I still think it's pointless to add as a feature, since it's just the interface. Get over it. who cares about the interface when they're exterminating shivan scum? :)
-
Gives here any people they will that ?
-
Originally posted by Free Terran
Gives here any people they will that ?
this has got to be a record
-
I actually said I'll look at it, not that I would do it.
And I will look at it, and ask the other folks, and see.
It would help if you showed us some before and after shots of the graphic you are using, if we can't make the change easily, then perhaps we can suggest an alternative ;)
-
Please do it.
I can't the pic at moment appear you because it is now not finished but when its done i appear it you.
-
terran, du störst jeden Mensch, die das Forum lesen
Gebrauch "ich woellte" nicht "ich will"
[yes i know my german is rusty]
-
Did we not go through this once already?
http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,13213.0.html
Download Bright, Free Terran. It will solve your problem quite nicely, I think. CptWhite gave you the link in the thread I have posted here for you.
-
I was just going to suggest Bright.
In PSP, use Palette: Optimized Octree/Reduction Method: Nearest Color. That is a very good way to do it...its not perfect, but its very good. Photoshop does one better and Bright does one better than that.
I'm not even sure if any current day game is using a full 16.7 million colors for any of their artwork. Someone want to confirm that for me? I think people still use 256 as often as possible...its much more efficient.
-
Most textures don't have enough variety in the color scheme to make 16 bit useful. Just convert it with one of the decent programs already mentioned.
-
We've also talked about PNG support, which Komet and I discussed briefly earlier...
It's a big maybe.
-
Originally posted by Free Terran
Gives here any people they will that ?
I can't the pic at moment appear you because it is now not finished but when its done i appear it you.
Free Terran, you've raised the bar for engrish speakers everywhere. Good effort.
-
The last large-scale gaming engine that relied on 256-color textures is the original Unreal Engine. Every game engine later than that (Quake 3, Lith-tech since around AvP2, Unreal Warfare) uses 16, 24 and 32-bit textures, with texture compression supported. Texture compression is a much better solution than palettized textrues, in my opinion, since the gains are even larger (A texture can be compressed 8-fold, which means a 24-bit texture can be compressed to 3/8s of the size of an 8-bit texture, giving both a higher resolution, and a higher color precision)
-
you know I was thinking about looking into this, I made my own PCX loader for Aurora, I think I might give it a shot later, I'm still waiting for the final 3.51 bug fix before I commit anything, though I'm starting to think I missed it or something
-
Originally posted by Kazan
terran, du störst jeden Mensch, die das Forum lesen
Gebrauch "ich woellte" nicht "ich will"
[yes i know my german is rusty]
Your german is very bad. :shaking:
-
Originally posted by Free Terran
Your german are very bad. :shaking:
like your english.
-
like my english
:)
out of the joke...
a 256 colors pic will look worse than a 16m, it's obvious, but not SO bad, until you convert digital photos...
16m pics are far bigger than 256, but since we are talking of interface this won't be much a problem, but i don't see why they should spend much time in something that gives a minimal advantage (minimal because it is interface+ not much gain in beauty)
althught i haven't seen your image it is very probable that, if you are having BIG quality reduce after converting, well probably you have done something bad converting
with photoshop (if i remember well) to convert to 256 color pcx you have to go to image/mode/indexed color: here a little menu will popup, where you can select the number of colors AND the way colors are reduced (adaptive,perceptive etc). Play with this parameter (you will have a real time preview) and i bet you will solve most of your probs
-
OH i have edit the post.
-
untill someone changes this, use bright
-
do a search for bright i linked a version a few weeks ago
-
At the very least I would request high bit on sun pics.... on high res suns (Aldo used one in that casualties thingy, and I use them) and the coronas on them appear banded (rings of colour) which is just crap and runins the effect of the sun....
so...
hummm??
(you have 31 minuets! :lol: )
-
Since people can't seem to click on a link even when posted, here is the relevant content to this whole discussion.
Why is it unnecessary to upgrade to 16.7 million colours?
16.7 million colours (a.k.a. 24-bit colour):
(http://www.3dap.com/hlp/hosted/scroll/misc/ntflogo24bit.bmp)
256 colours (a.k.a. 8-bit colour):
(http://www.3dap.com/hlp/hosted/scroll/misc/ntflogo8bit.bmp)
Can you see a difference? I didn't think so.
How can I make my 8-bit colour image look good as a 24-bit?
The above 24-bit image was converted to the 8-bit using Corel PhotoPaint (which eats all other graphics programs for lunch). If you are not so lucky as to have PhotoPaint, then you want Bright (http://www.btinternet.com/~ken.sue/Bright.exe). Bright is free, so there is no excuse not to make nice 8-bit images out of your 24-bit images.
-
oh dear me....
16
http://www.armouredstar.com/pics/other/16(2).bmp
8
http://www.armouredstar.com/pics/other/8(2).bmp
well looky here, what is this!!!! hummm!!! :ha: get 16 million NOW!!
(What do we want? 16Million! When do we want it? 31 minuets!)
(sorry for the size btw.... humph, fire for effect;7 )
EDIT: woops! 512*512 is bigger than I though! (i use them to texture my ships but they never look THAT big!!!) Change with 350*350 ones that WERNT saved as .jpg first!:rolleyes: :doubt:
the images arnt working again (been a while) links...:rolleyes:
-
get a freaking clue - demanding a programmer does something = programmer NOT doing that something
-
Originally posted by LAW ENFORCER
Rant
1) Did you use the proper program to convert that? 2) Did you remember to turn on Dithering? It will solve your problems quite well, my friend. Look:
Your version of the 8-bit:
(http://www.3dap.com/hlp/hosted/scroll/misc/8-2.bmp)
My version (using dithering!):
(http://www.3dap.com/hlp/hosted/scroll/misc/16-2.bmp)
Learn to use the converter properly, and you really, truly don't need 24-bit colour in FS2. :)
-
does dithering make them into red Xs? :rolleyes: K ya fixed them...
:)
and by the way... yuck, thats horrible!!! I use 512 (zoomed in more) and it would STILL look horrible!
anyway, I like my textures to be hiest res (the ship textures are mainly the same colour and so it dont affect it much BUT the suns annoy me SO MUCH!!!) (and Aldo's did this to!)
-
Then Aldo needs to learn to turn on dithering, too.
-
Originally posted by LAW ENFORCER
and by the way... yuck, thats horrible!!! I use 512 (zoomed in more) and it would STILL look horrible!
What, the centre section? Yes it is, and that is exactly what it looked like on your 24-bit version. Click your own link and see.
-
Ok, whos gonna tell him?.... hes from scotland ya know:shaking: :nervous: (they dont HAVE to use baseball bats like USA does!!!! They use their teeth!!!!:shaking: )
Yeah, yeah - mines called 'error defusion' by the way so it didn't look so appeling to click on...:doubt:
No the rings - even that small (and they ARE much better than my old 8bit things explained above) they are quiet noticble and annoy me SO much when im looking for enemy fighters...
(ANNOY THEM UNTIL THEY GIVE UP! ;7 )
-
You definitely want to diffuse the errors. It is a good thing. The alternative is to have concentrated errors, which makes them very visible and bad.
-
On a larger image they will be even less noticable, because there is more space to work with. Run a proper conversion on your 512*512, and it will be fine.
-
Originally posted by LAW ENFORCER
(ANNOY THEM UNTIL THEY GIVE UP! ;7 )
Have fun with that... :blah:
-
Triple post? S'not like you, Sesq mate.
BTW, your link to Bright wasn't having any of it, so I went and searched File Mirrors to find a working one. This (http://www.gratilog.net/anglais/images/Bright106e.exe) one, in fact :)
-
Originally posted by Kazan
get a freaking clue - demanding a programmer does something = programmer NOT doing that something
ha ha ha! What a strange, unexpected comment!
Im not demanding anything! for sure! just voicing my opinions in a compltly uneducated and dictorial way.... only...
oh and by the way, GET IT WORKING j/k:o
-
Originally posted by diamondgeezer
Triple post? S'not like you, Sesq mate.
Artifact of the real time conversation Law Enforcer and I were having. He'd keep editing his posts, and I'd respond to the new bits.
-
Yeah, come on Free Terran. 16.7M colours is unnecessary (at least for now and as long as we have human eyes), and would probably result in a big performance hit in the interface. As well as that, there is negligible gain, and lots of programming work required. If you're still dead set on getting this feature in, maybe you ought to take up programming and learn to do it yourself.
-
In what for a file under the code folder are the file with the 256 colors limitation ?
-
If you are asking what I think you are asking, then : quite a few.
-
And how nemed the files ?
-
pcxutils/pcxutils.cpp
has the basic PCX decompression code
and bmpman\bmpman.cpp has the implementation within bm_lock_pcx
I think it would be easiest to change pcx_read_bitmap_8bpp so that it could interpet 24 bit PCX files as well
note the final code will probly be fairly small and you will not see any diference in the game.
becase they all get converted to 32/24 bit (depending on how you look at it) textures anyway
-
I must only change 8bit to 24bit or ?
-
btw the shades are probably THE ONLY case when a CG created image suffers a little from reducing the color to 256, for obvious reasons
in this case i probably would limit the colors of the inner sun first (cut the sun from the overall image then limit its colors A LOT), then put image together and convert it to 256: you will have more color room for the corona
or work with a custom palette (good luck...)
btw the quality loss is anyway minimal so i don't see the urgent necessity of changing this. 24bit could be probably useful for alpha channel but i'm not expert in this so i'm not sure
-
you've got to learn how to program in c(++) and then you have to lern how the FS source works, then you have to figure out how the PCX file format works, then you have to figure out how to merge in 24 bit PCX file suport into the current set up without breaking anything, then you have to do it, then you have to hunt bugs.
note; this is _not_ a,
ALOW_24_BIT_PCXES == true;
type of thing
-
Thats to difficult for me i hope that it do any people of the Source Code project.
-
Free Terran, 24bit aint needed. As Seq already explained and showed, proper conversions wil look just as good as 24bit files. And i find it hilarious you want to change it your self in the source code just give up.
-
:(
-
Originally posted by Free Terran
Thats to difficult for me i hope that it do any people of the Source Code project.
How many time do people have to tell you, that 24bit interface aint needed!?
And you are pissing people off by demanding things.
-
I'll probly give it a shot just for the hell of it.
not right now though.
-
:wtf:
Didn't see that one comming, Bob...
-
Bright pissses over EVERYTHING for colour reduction. No Buts.
I changed my account details hence the broken link , its now
Bright's here, But Only For 1 More Week!!!! (http://www.btinternet.com/~cptwhite/Bright.exe)
I'm changing ISP's soon so that link is only valid for the next week I'm afraid.
-
Originally posted by Bobboau
I'll probly give it a shot just for the hell of it.
not right now though.
[color=66ff00]You sir, are crazy!
God bless insanity! :lol:
[/color]
-
i do have 24/32 bit textures working in opengl, but someone needs to get it to work in d3d
edit here's a link:
http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,12652.0.html
-
it won't open a 24 bit pcx file
-
it doesn't use pcx format
-
exactly
-
This is alot of belly-aching for nothing. As has been clearly shown...the right techniques and the right approach will solve the problem 99% of the time. The other 1% of the time (if its a in-game space object) SHOULD be flying past you at ludicrous speed anyways so who the heck is going to notice.
I'M ALL FOR making things look nice in game...but there are more important things I think that the SCP team can focus on than making 16.7 million colors so that we can slow the game down and get a digital photograph of god knows what into the games main hall.
By the way....the new TBP Release 2 mainhall....rendered in very high quality by Reaperman....was reduced to 256 colors with very little reduction in quality.
http://www.hard-light.net/vwbb/showthread.php?threadid=8468
Infact, the only place you notice it is on one of the nebulas...and its very miniscule. To the point of insanity.
-
it wouldn't slow things down any