Hard Light Productions Forums

Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => The Modding Workshop => Topic started by: karajorma on April 12, 2003, 04:58:21 pm

Title: No Camping!
Post by: karajorma on April 12, 2003, 04:58:21 pm
I`m currently working on my Attack Carrier for a mini-campaign I`m planning. Here's what it looks like now.

(http://homepage.ntlworld.com/karajorma/freespace/images/Charon-Rear2.jpg)

(http://homepage.ntlworld.com/karajorma/freespace/images/Charon-Side2.jpg)

(http://homepage.ntlworld.com/karajorma/freespace/images/Charon-Perspectiive2.jpg)

The big problem is that the landing strip itself is vulnerable. The Flak turrets on either side can`t hit anything on it and the problem with putting a couple of turrets on the side walls is that I can`t give them a large field of view or they'll start shooting through the floor (or opposing wall for that matter).

Anyone got any idea on how to stop ships from doing that? While I`m here if anyone has got any suggestions for the model I`ll say that I`m pretty happy with the model itself but I'm not too happy with the texturing yet.

EDIT : Just noticed this is an old pic. I`ve made the turrets slightly larger since then.
Title: Re: No Camping!
Post by: Hippo on April 12, 2003, 05:45:19 pm
Quote
Originally posted by karajorma
The big problem is that the landing strip itself is vulnerable. The Flak turrets on either side can`t hit anything on it and the problem with putting a couple of turrets on the side walls is that I can`t give them a large field of view or they'll start shooting through the floor (or opposing wall for that matter).

Anyone got any idea on how to stop ships from doing that?


Try making a recessed area along the yellow line (like a depressed cube) and then place a turret similar to the round ones on the deimos, and place them in the depression, measure the depth of the depression and the lenghth of the bottom of the depression and devide the length by half. square the depth and the half-length, and add them and make sure they equal twice the depth, and then set the range of fire for 60 degrees. and put the turret in the exact center.

Geometry is fun...

--Hippo
Title: No Camping!
Post by: Knight Templar on April 12, 2003, 06:00:52 pm
:eek:

that's a sweet carrier. :yes:

I'd say, you see the place right above the fighterbay? put two circle turrets right there with beams or subachs or something. other than that, I think the run way should be sumwhat vulnerable, I mean, you have a runway on a Space ship, which is kinda ineffiecient in itself. I'm not saying runways are bad, I think they look good on (space)carriers, but the runway itself is meant to be somewhat vulnerable (not purposefully) but by defualt.
Title: No Camping!
Post by: diamondgeezer on April 12, 2003, 06:56:08 pm
:yes:

I recognise it... but I can't think from where...
Title: No Camping!
Post by: karajorma on April 12, 2003, 06:57:43 pm
Quote
Originally posted by diamondgeezer
:yes:

I recognise it... but I can't think from where...


It was actually posted on HLP a few months back in a more primative form :)

Hippo, that's not a bad idea. I never thought of having the turrets face straight up. (well not recessed at least, putting them directly on the runway would sort of ruin the effect :) )
Title: No Camping!
Post by: diamondgeezer on April 12, 2003, 06:58:29 pm
That would explain it :)
Title: No Camping!
Post by: SKYNET-011 on April 12, 2003, 07:41:32 pm
Look's like a terran Typhon.
Sweet:yes:
Title: No Camping!
Post by: Galemp on April 12, 2003, 07:52:11 pm
:eek: I absolutely love it.

As for the vulnerability of the landing strip... that's why V used the invisible force fields. :p Just cover the runway with an Invisible surface.
Title: No Camping!
Post by: Knight Templar on April 12, 2003, 08:00:15 pm
if he did that, he might as well cover the runway :doubt: :p
Title: No Camping!
Post by: IceFire on April 12, 2003, 10:58:47 pm
Use fighters to cover that area....thats the point.
Title: No Camping!
Post by: Terawatt_99 on April 12, 2003, 11:21:27 pm
i would have to agree with IceFire, but if you absolutely have to have it covered by a turret, i would suggest making a platform like you have with the turrets along the side, but instead of having the turret on the top of the platform, have it on the front, so that it can cover the runway...

hope that made sense...

btw, very sweet carrier :D:yes:
Title: Runway...
Post by: Star Dragon on April 13, 2003, 03:26:31 am
So is that texture I sent you working for it? If so post a revised pic!
Title: No Camping!
Post by: FreeTerran on April 13, 2003, 03:40:53 am
Looks very great.
Title: Re: Runway...
Post by: karajorma on April 13, 2003, 04:09:14 am
Quote
Originally posted by Star Dragon
So is that texture I sent you working for it? If so post a revised pic!


Actually I don`t seem to have recieved that e-mail. Could you re-send it please?

As for using fighters for cover, that's a given :) It won`t be much of a problem in Seeds of Rebellion where the carrier will first appear because it will be on the players side but after that some people will probably want to use it as an enemy carrier in which case I`d like the ship itself to have at least some small defence against camping.
 Besides it doesn`t strike me a logical that someone would build a ship with a great big weapons blind spot on it :)
Title: Re: No Camping!
Post by: HotSnoJ on April 13, 2003, 05:59:40 am
Quote
Originally posted by karajorma (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/karajorma/freespace/images/Charon-Perspectiive2.jpg)


C:eek2::eek2:L!

As for the turrets. I say put then just above the fighterbay doors
Title: No Camping!
Post by: kasperl on April 13, 2003, 06:18:11 am
SWEEET!!! :yes: :yes: :yes:

turrets, mmm, what about some really short ranges one on the sides of the runway with a very small FOV, kinda like a laser fence. just put a few of them above eachother, and then make a few of these laser fences. make the range a little less then the width of the runway, this way it will look like it touches the other side, but it won't really hit it. not sure wheter this is possible, since i never modded anything in my life.
Title: No Camping!
Post by: CP5670 on April 13, 2003, 12:03:57 pm
That is an awesome model. :yes: How big is it?

Anyway, I think Hippo's suggestion sounds like a good idea; it's the solution I can think of that prevents the turrets from firing into the hull. Four or five of them placed along the center of the runway each with a FOV of 70 or so should cover most of the surface there. (a human pilot will still find and use undefended areas, but that is true with any ship; AI pilots should be okay)
Title: No Camping!
Post by: karajorma on April 13, 2003, 12:21:24 pm
Well it was originally going to be around 500m long but I soon found that the enterance was too small to let certain ships out :) So I`ve scaled it up and it's now about 1.2km long. I`ll have it carrying a complement of around 60 ships at that size.
Title: No Camping!
Post by: miniDwarf on April 13, 2003, 01:42:24 pm
try putting turrets just above the fighterbay entrance, then adjust the normals so it is equidistant from either surface and then set the field of view so it doesn't touch either hull plate

for example (i know a crappy side drawing)

entrance- -- - -normal
I- - - - - - - - - - /                    
I angle- - - - - /      
I here- - - - - -/        
I same- - - - -/  
I as - - - - - -/      
I other- - - -/
I \/- - - - - -/
I - - - - -  -/
I (Turret)/     <-angle here is half fov
---------------------------------------------------------- (hull)
Title: No Camping!
Post by: Petrarch of the VBB on April 13, 2003, 02:26:18 pm
That ship looks distinctly Taiidan. Be careful or TAP might steal it! worse, so might the TVWP!
Title: No Camping!
Post by: Goober5000 on April 13, 2003, 02:48:55 pm
Hmm, 'twould make a nice Vasudan carrier... :drevil:
Title: No Camping!
Post by: Petrarch of the VBB on April 13, 2003, 02:52:02 pm
Hehe. It would, it would indeed.

WE ARE TVWP. YOU WILL SURRENDER ALL MINIMODS TO OUR CAUSE. RESISTANCE IS FUTILE.
Title: No Camping!
Post by: Goober5000 on April 13, 2003, 03:01:04 pm
Matter of fact - wait a minute, we already have a carrier that looks pretty similar...
Title: No Camping!
Post by: Knight Templar on April 13, 2003, 03:04:12 pm
Yea, someone should retex the Conquest. Unless you guys are using it resized. How big is yours? because the textures have always looked like sometihng that is 500m long, not 1.5km or whatever.
Title: No Camping!
Post by: Exarch on April 13, 2003, 06:49:11 pm
That's definitely one of the cooler ships I've seen. Definite thumbs up. My one and only gripe with it, and a minor one at that, is that it's profile seems to follow the colossus philosophy of looking somewhat like a rifle :lol: But seriously, great looking ship.
Title: No Camping!
Post by: Grunt on April 14, 2003, 01:04:12 am
Very good ! :yes:
If the fighterbay is not closed by "invisible texture", put a flak on the back wall with a very narrow FOV. It will cover the runway quite well.
Also you should squeeze the two engine textures on the sides, because they don't fit.
How will you prevent the turrets beside the bridge from shooting through it ?
Title: No Camping!
Post by: karajorma on April 14, 2003, 04:08:04 am
Quote
Originally posted by Grunt
Very good ! :yes:
If the fighterbay is not closed by "invisible texture", put a flak on the back wall with a very narrow FOV. It will cover the runway quite well.
Also you should squeeze the two engine textures on the sides, because they don't fit.
How will you prevent the turrets beside the bridge from shooting through it ?


I`ve put an invisible texture over the fighterbay (in fact you can see it in these Truespace grabs as it has a slightly greenish tint when in TS).

Yeah. I`ve noticed the problem with the engine textures. The problem is that if I squeeze them any more the next repeatition starts to become visable too. I think I`ll have to load the texture into PSP and make a new custom one for this ship.

I`ve made the side turrets slightly larger so I`m not particularly worried about them shooting through the bridge.  Add to that the fact that they are flak turrets (which are less obvious when they do shoot through something) and I think it should work okay in the game (I`ll check for that when I playtest the ship though).
Title: No Camping!
Post by: Grunt on April 14, 2003, 05:40:35 am
Quote
Originally posted by karajorma


I`ve put an invisible texture over the fighterbay (in fact you can see it in these Truespace grabs as it has a slightly greenish tint when in TS).


You may consider removing it and allowing fighters to fly in.
It's cool to fly into large fighterbays IMO and if the walls are thick enough, then it won't cause any graphical glitches (see GTI Arcadia).:)
Title: No Camping!
Post by: karajorma on April 14, 2003, 07:17:32 am
Quote
Originally posted by Grunt

You may consider removing it and allowing fighters to fly in.
It's cool to fly into large fighterbays IMO and if the walls are thick enough, then it won't cause any graphical glitches (see GTI Arcadia).:)


I`ll leave it in for the time being. It's not like it's hard to use the don`t collide invisible flag :) Even better I can now have it raise and lower at will using the new SEXP's in FS_open :)
Title: No Camping!
Post by: Miburo on April 14, 2003, 11:14:30 am
Looks cool Karajorma, like I have earlier stated. Defianently one of most beautifulest ships I have seen :yes:
Title: No Camping!
Post by: JC128 on April 17, 2003, 06:41:40 pm
:yes:

That is an awesome carrier, only downside in my opinion is, on a real carrier unless the landing strip is rather wide, you would have a second approach from behind for landing. All in all though it looks great.

As for the turrett problem I like the idea of turrets above the fighter bay overlooking the runway, maybe a couple of flak guns or short range anti fighter beams?
Title: No Camping!
Post by: karajorma on April 17, 2003, 08:01:52 pm
Quote
Originally posted by JC128
:yes:

That is an awesome carrier, only downside in my opinion is, on a real carrier unless the landing strip is rather wide, you would have a second approach from behind for landing. All in all though it looks great.

As for the turrett problem I like the idea of turrets above the fighter bay overlooking the runway, maybe a couple of flak guns or short range anti fighter beams?


Well on a sea based carrier I`d agree with you about the runway but seeing as this is a space based carrier and I`m having trouble justifying having a runway at all (in fact pretty much my entire justification is "The Orion had one and it looked cool") so I think I shouldn`t really make it any bigger :)

As for turrets I took Hippo's suggestion of recessing them into the runway and I think it actually made the ship look better :) Judge for yourselves (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/karajorma/freespace/images/Charon-Perspectiive3.jpg)
Title: No Camping!
Post by: Turnsky on April 17, 2003, 08:32:04 pm
that works :nod:
Title: No Camping!
Post by: JC128 on April 17, 2003, 09:18:31 pm
Quote
Well on a sea based carrier I`d agree with you about the runway but seeing as this is a space based carrier and I`m having trouble justifying having a runway at all (in fact pretty much my entire justification is "The Orion had one and it looked cool") so I think I shouldn`t really make it any bigger  


hehe yea im a big fan of sea based carriers so im kinda partial in that respect. Again its an awesome design though, however like you said it really is hard to justify a runway in space anyhow.

That gives the idea for a nifty dropship like carrier like babylon 5 does. Just drops the fighters through tiny holes in the bottom  of the ship :lol: If only I had the skill (and the program) to pull something like that off.

Enough analyzing, good work keep 'em comin!
Title: No Camping!
Post by: karajorma on April 18, 2003, 03:44:16 am
Quote
Originally posted by JC128
That gives the idea for a nifty dropship like carrier like babylon 5 does. Just drops the fighters through tiny holes in the bottom  of the ship :lol: If only I had the skill (and the program) to pull something like that off.


The majority of the ship was made with TS4 which isn`t hugely different from the freely available TS3.2. So if it's lack of talent that is stopping you I can`t help you but if you want to get hold of TS and try for yourself have a quick look at the modding section of my FAQ.

As for B5 like Cobra bays I'm sorely tempted to try that one of these days :)
Title: No Camping!
Post by: JC128 on April 18, 2003, 10:32:36 am
I downloaded, TS3 and Rhino last night. Im going to see what I can do with them, I used to have 3D Studio Max that was soooo easy to model in hehe.

Oh well time to kick open the tutorials and the faqs and start learnin
Title: No Camping!
Post by: Deepblue on April 18, 2003, 01:49:21 pm
Quote
Originally posted by JC128
I used to have 3D Studio Max that was soooo easy to model in hehe.

:nod:
Title: No Camping!
Post by: Hippo on April 18, 2003, 07:40:59 pm
Quote
Originally posted by karajorma

As for turrets I took Hippo's suggestion of recessing them into the runway and I think it actually made the ship look better :) Judge for yourselves.


Ok, so when i have suggestions, they work... When I download truespace, my computer crashes and allows me to get a huge upgrade on my parents bill... So, if i make things, i kill computers... If i give ideas, they work, but i can't actually test them...
:sigh:
:blah:
Title: No Camping!
Post by: karajorma on April 19, 2003, 04:25:51 am
Quote
Originally posted by Hippo


Ok, so when i have suggestions, they work... When I download truespace, my computer crashes and allows me to get a huge upgrade on my parents bill... So, if i make things, i kill computers... If i give ideas, they work, but i can't actually test them...
:sigh:
:blah:


I don`t think it's fair to blame TS for that. Download it again. If it kills a second computer then you`ll have empirical proof :D
Title: there are no stupid questions...
Post by: Star Dragon on April 19, 2003, 05:10:49 am
Just stupid people ;) (like me!) he he

  How about this question.. Why bother learning TS (lord knows I can gluelights now (get back I'm dangerous! :nervous: )...
   Just stick with MAX can have them converted to.cobs with DE oe 3Dx or ask someone to convert them for you (they get a new swhip outta the deal) ;7

   Still trying to learn how to break down that Gunstar I sent ya KJ(last starfighter) but keep screwing up. If can learn to do it on this model I can do it to anything... Hopefully in time I'll figure it out. If I have no modling talent myself at least I can learn how to get models ready for conversion. After learning how to make a single model into subobjects for poly reduction I want to learn how to map a texture on a model. I have ultimate unwrap but need to wait a few months to register it. (RL priorities)
Title: No Camping!
Post by: J.F.K. on April 19, 2003, 05:49:28 am
Quote
Originally posted by karajorma
As for turrets I took Hippo's suggestion of recessing them into the runway and I think it actually made the ship look better :) Judge for yourselves (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/karajorma/freespace/images/Charon-Perspectiive3.jpg)


That comes out looking good! :)