Hard Light Productions Forums
General FreeSpace => FreeSpace Discussion => Topic started by: Shiva-jin Buu on April 29, 2003, 05:57:18 am
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Is it okay if I show you guys my story of how the Shivans were first created? It's kinda long, so it'll take up a few pages... that's not considered spam is it..?
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Not at all. :)
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allright then you asked for it :D :D
please give mne your comments! i'd appreciate it.
Conflict:
FREESPACE
The Great War
This is the story of a conflict spanning across millions of galaxies,
Millions of eons,
Millions of innocent victims,
Millions of evaporated civilizations,
And the death of a dream,
All inevitable losses of the horrible war,
Without an end?
This is the story of the Great War.
A time countless eons ago, when the Universe was still young, and Sentience stood in its infancy, the Great War began. Sentience was designed to eventually reach a level of Our equal, so that it could be at our side, ever awing at the endless beauty and perfection of Our creation. Without Sentience, We would’ve been all alone.
Sentience would spring from advanced life, which would manifest in physical form, eventually transforming into the astral form. This process would take almost an eternity, but the project would surely be worth it.
Approximately 800.000.000.000 years BC, Terran counting, life was in its most advanced form, and Sentience was born. There were actually four separate sentient species that evolved simultaneously. These races created their empire, as expected, and expanded their boundaries. However, because their sentience was still in such a primal form, the three species that first discovered “subspace” could not cope with eachother’s existence, and soon threw themselves into warfare, the first war ever. This war, the D-R-T war, would have an enormous effect on the fourth race, the Narvanii.
The eruption of the phenomenon warfare was to blame on the fact that the three races encountered eachother before their sentience could evolve into a more sophisticated form. Although We were very much pleased to see any Sentience at all in such an early era of Our Universe, it would’ve been better if the races had evolved far away from eachother. Because their sentience was in its most primitive form, the races were bound to simple hatred and petty prejudice. We should have seen this coming, and We should have diverted their advancing away from eachother, but We failed at that point. We failed too many times…
The D-R-T war raged on for several hundreds of Terran years. The three species lost almost everything in the horrible war, making their existence seem like a senseless torment. They knew no better, so each of the D-R-T just went on fighting for survival, but the war had staggered to such a level that no race could gain any advantage anymore. All their armies were shattered, broken, and completely devoid of any morale, sending each new fighter into the fray… and throwing the war into a stalemate…
The D-R-T war was the most blatant insult to Sentience, the Universe, and Us. Yet, the fourth race, the Narvanii, seemed like it was following the intended path for life. They evolved as a peace-loving, ambitious race that spent their time and effort into expanding their boundaries of sophistication. The Narvanii were Our best hope for the project of Sentience. However, the tragic fact that the Narvanii spawned at the fringe of the D-R-T war completely dashed Our hopes again. The Narvanii evolved a bit later than the other three races, discovering subspace a century later than the D-R-T. Thrilled by the possibilities and potential of subspace, the Narvanii eagerly crossed the boundary of an interstellar civilization.
However, the D-R-T war was still in its most turbulent stages. To the absolute contrary of the Narvanii’s expectations, the beautiful promise of unlimited possibilities was replaced by a great nightmare. The Narvanii were completely unknown to war, making their chances nil. The D-R-T were already hardened by combat, so they struck back to push the Narvanii back where they came from. Because the D-R-T were mainly occupied by eachother, they pushed the Narvanii back with a quick and small strike. The Narvanii were utterly shocked by this event. Never before had they encountered such a terrible display of a completely different way of life. Their naïve dream of perfection came to a halt by warfare’s terrible sight.
The Narvani were changed forever. Upon seeing such horror, they decided to dedicate their lives to stopping the war. The Narvanii retreated to their home-system, and immediately began to work on the ultimate weapon to use against the war: their own army. They knew they had no chance against the overwhelming odds of the D-R-T war machines, so they thought up something different. Apparently, the Narvanii were sophisticated enough to create an artificial sentience. This level of development was much unexpected on Our part, but the contrary was evident.
The Narvanii called their artificially sentient weapon “Project Shiva”. Shiva was able of adapting to war, and to create an army of fighters on its own, from the most basic of resources. Shiva had the potential to control the Universe. Approximately 800 billion years BC the Narvanii decided to activate Shiva, and launch it to D-R-T space. That decision would actually throw history off course, but the Narvanii couldn’t have known. History cannot be reversed…
Almost as soon as Shiva was launched, it began to construct its army. The Narvanii monitored Shiva’s progress thoroughly from their safe home-system. The Shivan army spawned a large army at an incredible rate. Immediately the main computer of Shiva manifested on an insignificant planet, and it transformed the planet into a giant space-fighter factory in no time. Shiva designed brilliant fighter ships from a perfect caliber, and its economy was entirely flawless. Even before the third day of Shiva’s entrance to D-R-T space, it had the technology of subspace drives. The Narvanii were completely stunned by this development, as they hadn’t realized the Shivans’ need of subspace. Never would they have anticipated that the Shivans would invent subspace on its own, but in three mere days..?
On the fifth day of the Shivan counter-act to the D-R-T war, the Shivan army committed to warfare. The D-R-T were taken by surprise, as they suddenly faced millions of perfectly designed, flawlessly performing fighter space-craft. They stood no chance at all. Not even a most desperate alliance of the D-R-T could save them from the artificial sentience Shiva! In 37 days, 37 days, the D-R-T were completely erased from existence. Not one survived the blitzkrieg of Shiva.
The Narvanii had succeeded. They had actually ended the D-R-T war. Overjoyed and slightly disbelieving the Narvanii came to collect Shiva and occupy the former D-R-T space, in the hope of continuing their peaceful, ambitious lives. However, in the month of war, Shiva had developed a sentience of a very high level. It wanted to live. It wanted to survive, so when the Narvanii came to deactivate it, the Shivan army resisted. Suddenly and without any hesitation, the Shivans attacked their creators. Although baffled by Shiva’s decision, the Narvanii knew they wouldn’t survive a Shivan attack. The Narvanii knew they had just a few days left to wonder why, to find the flaw in “Project Shiva”. Just before the Narvanii, too were erased from existence, they realized the only flaw in “Project Shiva”: it was flawless. In their dying breath, the Narvanii cursed the day they activated Shiva… and then it ended.
Since then, the Shivans have run rampant throughout the entire Universe. Shiva was programmed to adapt to war, but it seems it has taken up an agenda of the total annihilation of any viable threat. The Shivan army expanded at a geometric rate, conquering their galaxy in an impossibly short time. The Shivans had developed various subspace technologies, with which they traveled to the very outskirts of their galaxy. After that, the Shivans discovered advanced subspace, enabling them to even cross the boundaries of different galaxies, and even matter clusters. With the full potential of subspace in the Shivans’ power, nothing could stop them from expanding their empire throughout the entire Universe.
The Shivans’ paranoid genocidal agenda still drove them. They controlled each single galaxy with tight surveillance, to detect a civilization advanced enough to use subspace, a civilization that was a viable threat according to the Shivan mainframe. Each race that dared cross the interstellar boundaries was evaporated without any hesitation, any remorse… nothing, absolutely nothing could thrive under the Shivans’ diabolical control. The Shivans ruled Our Universe…
Sentience was kept under a constant level. Any civilization that tried to rise above the Shivans’ designated level was relentlessly destroyed. The Shivans were the Great Destroyers. No life could grow beyond its primitive form, without being erased from existence. There was only one advanced sentience in the whole of the Universe: Shiva. Shiva’s sentience grew at an incredible rate, which led us to realize the true danger of the Shivans. If the Shivans were allowed to sophisticate at this rate, they would eventually rise to Our level, or even beyond! That must NEVER come to pass. The Shivans MUST be stopped!
We had no choice but to step in Ourselves. We manifested Ourselves in 17 respective entities, each with the full arsenal of Our supernatural powers. These entities, the Andarta, would be Our final desperate weapon to use against the Shivans. Never had We anticipated to see a situation which would force Us to interfere Ourselves. However, We soon came to a terrifying conclusion.
Because the Shivans had taken up so much space, they could expand their empire at an unreal rate. Even Our destruction of the Shivan empire was overcome by the rate with which the Shivans regenerated their empire, and their power. This meant even We were powerless to stop the Shivans. We did stall Shiva’s sophistication process, which prevented the Shivans from eventually reaching Our level. But the Shivan threat had yet to be overcome… but how? Was it even possible to destroy the perfectly flawless empire of the seemingly endless Shivan army? Were We doomed to fight the Shivans for all eternity, just to prevent an even greater nightmare?! The Shivans came into existence through a node of coincidental events, each one seeming to steer towards the dark present with fullest intent. Could perhaps the Shivans be stopped by a similar twist of Fate?
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nice, nice, however, perhaos you should include the fact that the first war in the story occured outside our galaxy, since that will explain the fact no remains of those species were found.
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Personally I think some of your numbers and things may be a bit high (I think the universe is only bout 20 billion years old, for one thing, and I'm not sure if I can accept the idea of Shivans controlling muliple Galaxies. The Shivans we've seen just don't seem to be that powerful.) but it's a fairly solid piece of writing. The basic theory itself isn't exactly new, but seeing as how you came up the it in isolation (from the rest of the FS communtiy) nobody is going to accuse you of stealing it or anything.
You should have a look in the Mindgames forum/site. Some of their stuff is very similar to this, very cool too.
Originally posted by kasperl
nice, nice, however, perhaos you should include the fact that the first war in the story occured outside our galaxy, since that will explain the fact no remains of those species were found.
ot neccesary - a billion years is an incredibly long time 800 (or 20) billion even more so, and the Galaxy is incredibly big. We would have an excrutiatingly smal;l chance of finding anything anyway.
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Curious, where did you come up with the name for the Andarta?
Story, other than the numbers, feels solid.
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Andarta, well that's not my invention.... remember a time ago on the original VBB at FSWatch, this guy Ascraeus, and his dad came up with it... I borrowed the name for the "supernaturals", and forgot to alter it when I posted this.... sorry :)
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Yea, i knew it was from Acreaus, wanted to see if you knew his work or not :)
Do you have his old website address by the way? He seems to have faded to black a long time ago, but I think his site is still around.
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no sry that was a long time ago huh? I can't remember the exact addrress it was a personal site at geocities or the like... difficult to trace
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Actually, I think it was a university personal site. IIRC he was a professor somewhere on the east coast. Let's see what search brings up..
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Just to be picky, the universe is estimated to have began 14 billion years ago. Not 800 billion years. Seems a bit over the top.
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That depends on how you view its history....
Think of the Universe as several "matter clusters" each with their own big bangs and stuff.
A matter cluster is a collection of -- matter, hence the name, in the form of what we presently call "the entire universe".
At the edge of our universe, along innumerable galaxies, there is nothingness ... right? what if there is another different "universe" after the almost-never-ending nothingness? Perhaps it's more clearly described as follows:
In the ranks of the Universe we have star-systems. In the star systems are planets.
In galaxies there are star-systems, a collection of star-systems is: indeed, a galaxy :)
So, why not put in a new "thing"??
Lot's of galaxies stashed in "visible" range of eachtother could be called a matter cluster. In matter clusters there are galaxies.
All the matter clusters toghether = the entire universe. so:
We have the Universe,
the matter clusters,
the galaxies,
star-systems,
and planets.
Think about it.... each matter cluster could ahve an entirley different time-line. You've gotta admit this theory opens new perspectives!
ok, never mind...... :D:wtf:
[EDIT]: lots of spelling corrections.... pfffew
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Originally posted by Shiva-jin Buu
That depends on how you view its history....
Think of the Universe as several "matter clusters" each with their own big bangs and stuff.
A matter cluster is a collection of -- matter, hence the name, in the form of what we presently call "the entire universe".
At the edge of our universe, along innumerable galaxies, there is nothingness ... right? what if there is another different "universe" after the almost-never-ending nothingness? Perhaps it's more clearly described as follows:
In the ranks of the Universe we have star-systems. In the star systems are planets.
In galaxies there are star-systems, a collection of star-systems is: indeed, a galaxy :)
So, why not put in a new "thing"??
Lot's of galaxies stashed in "visible" range of eachtother could be called a matter cluster. In matter clusters there are galaxies.
All the matter clusters toghether = the entire universe. so:
We have the Universe,
the matter clusters,
the galaxies,
star-systems,
and planets.
Think about it.... each matter cluster could ahve an entirley different time-line. You've gotta admit this theory opens new perspectives!
ok, never mind...... :D:wtf:
[EDIT]: lots of spelling corrections.... pfffew
that's very similar to some extrapolation from the bigbang theory,multiple bangs, multiple univverses.
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well as it's all in theory, wouldn't that just make universes the equivilant of really big galaxies (containing galaxies and superclusters and the like)
Anyways, it'd be a good idea to mention your theory before hand, as the data with our universe which people would assume when reading your story, is false.
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False? Hmmm, this is all fiction, so... I would say a person can create his/her own fact-fiction as they deem fit. If one does not agree, have an open mind and go with the story. It is not a bad effort at all, and could be made more believable with some of the suggestions. However Tolkien did not release his background before the books...even though he had it as Shiva-jin Buu seems to.
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True it is fiction, but Freespace is set in our universe, and people don't generally think of other universes the way he has, so stating the whole universe theory beforehand would only benefit his story and keep people from giving him the what the **** over a 800 billion year old universe (that he didn't mention wasn't the oen we live in).
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Ascreaus' website can be found here:
http://faculty.concord.edu/manzione/fs3.htm
I've had it bookmarked ever since I found out about it two years ago. :)
As for the above story, just remember what others have posted here: the Universe is only 14 - 20 billion years old. 800 billion seems WAY over the top, even if you're talking about multiple Big Bangs. An alien race that has been around that long would evolve so far that it would be COMPLETELY unrecognizable from its original form. Hell, even evolving over just a million years would render a species completely different from its original form. And us human homo sapiens have only been around for, what, 35,000 years tops?
If humans had 800 billion years to evolve, would we even be corporeal anymore?:nervous: :shaking:
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We may still be solid beings for millions more years. Remember, evolution is about adapting to your suroundings in order to survive. I see no reason for us to turn into beings of energy at the moment..
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Assuming that energy beings are even possible outside of Sci-Fi programs :D
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Originally posted by Su-tehp
If humans had 800 billion years to evolve, would we even be corporeal anymore?:nervous: :shaking:
Evoulution is a biological process, so becoming non-corporeal is impossibile. It depends on matter.
You have been watching ST too much (with Q and stuff)...
Immortal, god-like, non-corporeal race...please:rolleyes:
Beeings made of pure energy.....please :rolleyes:
IMPOSSIBILE!
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Originally posted by TrashMan
IMPOSSIBILE!
So was reaching the speed of sound a century ago...
speaking of which, anyone see the previews for enterprise last night? :wtf:
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I very much doubt that evolution will ever throw up non-coporeal beings from humans. It's unlikely in the extreme.
Now Humans meddling with forces that are beyond current thought and deliberately or even accidently turning themselves incorporeal is another matter. :)
As for the shivans evolving. Well the thing to remember is that evolution only messes with things that aren't well adapted to their surroundings. Crocodiles have been around since the Dinosaurs times with very little in the way of change. Sharks have been around even longer.
If the shivans are living in space for billions of years then they are unlikely to have had much of a selection pressure that would cause evolution.
Secondly evolution depends on mutation. If the Shivans mercilessly exterminate any shivan that isn't pure then they could very easily survive for all time without any change.
I think it's unlikely that the shivans would have existed unchanging for billions of years but if you say that their culture hasn't changed in that long then there is no good reason why their bodies would.
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KT,
Well like I said he could bring things a bit more inline with that is known to make it more believable, but releaseing his background ahead of time is not necessary (again ala Tolkein)... Some NEED it though, I guess!!! :D (j/k bro...trying to keep things lite)
Did you all also know that sharks are warm blooded???
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What's wrong with non-biological intelligance? The underlying mechinations that make you you are just chemicals and electrical impulses, although horrendously complicated. I'm sure that the galaxy is a big enough place and evolutionary factors diverse enough to ensure somewhere beings exist who whould scoff at the idea of "thinking flesh".
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Originally posted by karajorma
I very much doubt that evolution will ever throw up non-coporeal beings from humans. It's unlikely in the extreme.
Now Humans meddling with forces that are beyond current thought and deliberately or even accidently turning themselves incorporeal is another matter. :)
As for the shivans evolving. Well the thing to remember is that evolution only messes with things that aren't well adapted to their surroundings. Crocodiles have been around since the Dinosaurs times with very little in the way of change. Sharks have been around even longer.
If the shivans are living in space for billions of years then they are unlikely to have had much of a selection pressure that would cause evolution.
Secondly evolution depends on mutation. If the Shivans mercilessly exterminate any shivan that isn't pure then they could very easily survive for all time without any change.
I think it's unlikely that the shivans would have existed unchanging for billions of years but if you say that their culture hasn't changed in that long then there is no good reason why their bodies would.
Right, especially since most of you are assuming that there are any factors that affect the evolution of the Shivans in the first place. Living in space, there are not very many abiotic factors to depend on. Evolution comes with natural selection. But when nature isn't even there in the first place, you've got no evolution. The Shivans, remember, were a produced species (at least in Buu's theory). The only thing that could be farfetched is the 800-billion year thing, but even that has some substance to it.
Another thing: When you think about evolution and a species, it's quite impossible for a species to evolve into ethereal. Think about it. A species, upon first existence, is either corpereal or ethereal. Evolution cannot in any way meddle with the two different realities. Think of corpereal and ethereal as two different phases of reality. In ours, time and evolution have effect, and we have four dimensions. I'm not sure about ethereal physics though (I'm only fifteen, still got lots to learn :nod: )
Shivan evolution would then have to depend on mutation, as Karajorma introduced. The Shivans being a produced, and flawless, race, there wouldn't be any other "different" Shivans that would survive. And on the same note, if the Shivans are produced, would they even have mutations? We're assuming that they have DNA like we do, but do they? Here on earth, every single being has something in common: we all have DNA. But would the Shivans have it?
Wooh...my two cents :D
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Well no replication process is perfect, you'll always get flaws of some kind. The problem is if those flaws can themselves be replicated.
Terran species evolve cause even the simplest creatures make errors replicating. Their descendants then pass that mutation on.
The question is how do shivans replicate. Is there a cookie cutter machine somewhere that stamps them out? If that's the case then shivans won't ever evolve. They just take the machine offline when something goes wrong. The mutants created by the error can't give birth to new mutants so the race doesn't evolve.
If however the shivans are somehow passing their own genetic material on to their descendants (or whatever they use in it's place) then there will be mutations sooner or later (especially if you're giving them 800 billion years to appear). Whether those mutations get to breed depends on what the shivans do to mutants.
If they rip them apart as soon as they are born you won't see any evolution.
As for shivans having DNA I consider that unlikely in the extreme. DNA is a very complicated molecule and you could probably replace all 4 base pairs with different nucleotides and still get a molecule that could carry genetic information. Why base the sugar chain on ribose? Why not another sugar? Why a sugar at all for that matter?
The chance that evoluion threw up exactly the same molecule twice when there are other things that could take it's place is too high to be a very realistic chance. If the Shivans do have DNA it wouldn't be a conincidence, but a sign of something involving both species happening in Earth's distant past. :)
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Personal theory of the Shivans:
A weapon/tool that got out of control.
That's it. Simple, effecient, not exactly original. Oh well. Next!
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Hey!!! I said sharks are warm blooded!!! :)